Water and Fire Dragon Combo

takes his squishy archer tush and runs for cover b:surrender

Damn, sick dmg b:shocked and wizzies still QQ bout not being OP lol

Credit Card Fight!

Nice shot.

I was **** around with some friends a few days ago and bagged a 230k hit on a sin. Didn't screenie as I'm fairly sure 300k+ is doable with my set, and 500k+ is probably doable with a full mag R9 with DoT's in the armour.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Triple sparked BIDS crit with R9 (+12?) and HF. If you remove crit, triple spark and HF, the damage looks kinda realistic... or maybe not lol.

3sparked bladetempest hurts more especially when the target is properly debuffed

Nice, lol...and if you'd had all setting maxed, that'd make a beautiful scene! XD

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Damn, sick dmg b:shocked and wizzies still QQ bout not being OP lol

you gotta be stupid...or else I don't see how you overlooked the post above you.
Sin- stunlock- dead OP wizzie. No escape, no second chance.

zizoun wrote: »

BIDS: Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon magic
plus 13955.0.

BT: Fire and phyisical damage equal to base magic damage plus 200%
of weapon damage plus 6200.0.

Sure, you will hurt a BM more with BT than BIDS, ofc...

Blade Tempest is Base + 200% + 6.2k fire, and Base + 200% + 6.2k Physical as well. That is, a total of 2x Base + 400% + 12.4k. Therefore, if your base magic attack is greater than your weapon attack + 1.6k (which it should be, easily), you'll do more raw damage. Especially if you triple spark it, since BT effectively gets the triple spark bonus twice.

As for using it on HA... properly debuffed can mean a lot. Armor Break, for example, turns HA very squishy indeed.

@Vindrael: The screenshot is set up, not one from actual PK.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you gotta be stupid...or else I don't see how you overlooked the post above you.
Sin- stunlock- dead OP wizzie. No escape, no second chance.

I`m speaking bout wiz VS BM fight not sin.

zizoun wrote: »

As much as you try to calculate, I think pure magic attack BIDS with 500% triple sparked will be more effectively in a BM than BT triplesparked...

Phy def in a 100 BM is just too much to have all those bonusses from BT that you're telling me about completely... 200% phy won't do that much dmg and 500% water will do fully mag. M
aybe I should check it in numbers, but I doubt BT does more dmg in a BM than BIDS, kinda hard to believe.

Warning: Math ahead. The result's down below past the next bit of red text.

Triple Sparked BIDS:
Base magic attack + 700% (Triple Spark Bonus) + 500% (Spell bonus) + ~14k (Spell bonus), all of which is water damage. That is, (Base + 1200% + 14k) water damage.

Triple Sparked BT:
Base magic attack + 700% (Triple Spark Bonus) + 200% (Spell bonus) + ~6.2k (Spell bonus), all of which is fire damage, plus the same thing again, as physical damage. That is, (Base + 900% + 6.2k) fire damage, and (Base + 900% + 6.2k) physical damage.

The difference is (300% + 7.8k) less elemental damage, offset by (Base + 900% + 6.2k) more physical damage.

Now, I tossed together this BM as a theoretical target. TT99, elemental ornaments, +5 refines, fully buffed but no marrows. Physical Resistance is 79%, Elemental is 58%. Undine drops that to 47%, so let's just say 80% Physical Resistance versus 50% Elemental.

The damage difference after taking into account resistances thus becomes (150% + 3.9k) of elemental, offset by (20% of Base + 180% + 1.24k) of physical. Basically, the point at which a triple sparked BT is better than a triple sparked BIDS on this particular target, after undine, is roughly when (20% of Base magic attack + 30% of weapon magic attack) is roughly 2660. Assuming 400 magic, Base magic attack will be 5 times weapon magic attack, so the breakeven point is when 130% of weapon magic attack is approximately 2.6k. That is, when weapon magic attack (including rings) is over 2000 or so.

Any +12 endgame wizard weapon will be past the 2000 weapon magic attack mark, when you include rings and shards. I think +9 or so is enough for a Nature Talker's maximum to go over 2000.

So yes, a triple sparked Blade Tempest does have the potential to outdamage a triple sparked Black Ice Dragon Strike, even on a fully buffed BM, without any unusual debuffs. Removing Undine Strike from the debuffs only tilts the balance in favor of BT, as does increasing the refines on elemental ornaments. Magic Marrow, naturally, favors BT over BIDS as well. Physical defense debuffs are also easier to come by than magic defense debuffs. There's also Spark (the genie skill), which can rather drastically reduce fire defense.

Of course, this is assuming I have the damage formulae properly understood. Everything I've read seems to indicate that BT gets the triple spark bonus added twice, and that's what makes the difference.

before I saw screenie I thought, "114k? Big woop, I've hit that before."

But that was on a mob, not a player b:laugh

This just barely triples my max on a player b:cute

brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Warning: Math Ahead. The Result's Down Below Past The Next Bit Of Red Text.

Triple Sparked Bids:
Base Magic Attack + 700% (triple Spark Bonus) + 500% (spell Bonus) + ~14k (spell Bonus), All Of Which Is Water Damage. That Is, (base + 1200% + 14k) Water Damage.

Triple Sparked Bt:
Base Magic Attack + 700% (triple Spark Bonus) + 200% (spell Bonus) + ~6.2k (spell Bonus), All Of Which Is Fire Damage, Plus The Same Thing Again, As Physical Damage. That Is, (base + 900% + 6.2k) Fire Damage, And (base + 900% + 6.2k) Physical Damage.

The Difference Is (300% + 7.8k) Less Elemental Damage, Offset By (base + 900% + 6.2k) More Physical Damage.

Now, I Tossed Together this Bm As A Theoretical Target. Tt99, Elemental Ornaments, +5 Refines, Fully Buffed But No Marrows. Physical Resistance Is 79%, Elemental Is 58%. Undine Drops That To 47%, So Let's Just Say 80% Physical Resistance Versus 50% Elemental.

The Damage Difference After Taking Into Account Resistances Thus Becomes (150% + 3.9k) Of Elemental, Offset By (20% Of Base + 180% + 1.24k) Of Physical. Basically, The Point At Which A Triple Sparked Bt Is Better Than A Triple Sparked Bids On This Particular Target, After Undine, Is Roughly When (20% Of Base Magic Attack + 30% Of Weapon Magic Attack) Is Roughly 2660. Assuming 400 Magic, Base Magic Attack Will Be 5 Times Weapon Magic Attack, So The Breakeven Point Is When 130% Of Weapon Magic Attack Is Approximately 2.6k. That Is, When Weapon Magic Attack (including Rings) Is Over 2000 Or So.

Any +12 Endgame Wizard Weapon Will Be Past The 2000 Weapon Magic Attack Mark, When You Include Rings And Shards. I Think +9 Or So Is Enough For A Nature Talker's Maximum To Go Over 2000.

so Yes, A Triple Sparked Blade Tempest Does Have The Potential To Outdamage A Triple Sparked Black Ice Dragon Strike, Even On A Fully Buffed Bm, Without Any Unusual Debuffs. Removing Undine Strike From The Debuffs Only Tilts The Balance In Favor Of Bt, As Does Increasing The Refines On Elemental Ornaments. Magic Marrow, Naturally, Favors Bt Over Bids As Well. Physical Defense Debuffs Are Also Easier To Come By Than Magic Defense Debuffs. There's Also Spark (the Genie Skill), Which Can Rather Drastically Reduce Fire Defense.

Of Course, This Is Assuming I Have The Damage Formulae Properly Understood. Everything I've Read Seems To Indicate That Bt Gets The Triple Spark Bonus Added Twice, And That's What Makes The Difference.

Wow Instead Of Trying To Showw Off Ur Math ( Quite Unneccessary) Just Go Do The Real Test On The Spells Sighh.....

Mind break + BIDS or
Armor + Mind Break + BT?

It's not something that's obvious unless you do the math.

Also, 114k damage..or whatever it was..that's it? That's quite low..especially with r9.

Also..triple post stubbie? really..

^^ haha excuse my noobness not noeing how to do multi-quotes in 1 post .

Well with wizard debuf and genie debuff combine only BT will outdamage BIDS even on a barb.

uhm if the BM has r9 and im not sure how muc hrefine the guys has =D im not sure how the wizard can hit 114k =D we dont have the info on BM gears , we dont know wut kind of buffs was stacked =D so yeah i dont noe if i want to buy this if a BM has full JOSD =D even full r9 wizzy wiht +12 weap will be a joke for taht def anyway yeah misssing too much info to do anything. I was just responding to sum1's reply regarding BIDS or BT hit harder

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Warning: Math ahead. The result's down below past the next bit of red text.

Triple Sparked BIDS:
Base magic attack + 700% (Triple Spark Bonus) + 500% (Spell bonus) + ~14k (Spell bonus), all of which is water damage. That is, (Base + 1200% + 14k) water damage.

Triple Sparked BT:
Base magic attack + 700% (Triple Spark Bonus) + 200% (Spell bonus) + ~6.2k (Spell bonus), all of which is fire damage, plus the same thing again, as physical damage. That is, (Base + 900% + 6.2k) fire damage, and (Base + 900% + 6.2k) physical damage.

The difference is (300% + 7.8k) less elemental damage, offset by (Base + 900% + 6.2k) more physical damage.

Now, I tossed together this BM as a theoretical target. TT99, elemental ornaments, +5 refines, fully buffed but no marrows. Physical Resistance is 79%, Elemental is 58%. Undine drops that to 47%, so let's just say 80% Physical Resistance versus 50% Elemental.

The damage difference after taking into account resistances thus becomes (150% + 3.9k) of elemental, offset by (20% of Base + 180% + 1.24k) of physical. Basically, the point at which a triple sparked BT is better than a triple sparked BIDS on this particular target, after undine, is roughly when (20% of Base magic attack + 30% of weapon magic attack) is roughly 2660. Assuming 400 magic, Base magic attack will be 5 times weapon magic attack, so the breakeven point is when 130% of weapon magic attack is approximately 2.6k. That is, when weapon magic attack (including rings) is over 2000 or so.

Any +12 endgame wizard weapon will be past the 2000 weapon magic attack mark, when you include rings and shards. I think +9 or so is enough for a Nature Talker's maximum to go over 2000.

So yes, a triple sparked Blade Tempest does have the potential to outdamage a triple sparked Black Ice Dragon Strike, even on a fully buffed BM, without any unusual debuffs. Removing Undine Strike from the debuffs only tilts the balance in favor of BT, as does increasing the refines on elemental ornaments. Magic Marrow, naturally, favors BT over BIDS as well. Physical defense debuffs are also easier to come by than magic defense debuffs. There's also Spark (the genie skill), which can rather drastically reduce fire defense.

Of course, this is assuming I have the damage formulae properly understood. Everything I've read seems to indicate that BT gets the triple spark bonus added twice, and that's what makes the difference.

Ok understood, if you get twice the bonus from triplespark on BT, the difference is made by the magic attack of the char in an end game wizzie, thx for taking the time of explanning it

Stubbie - Heavens Tear wrote:

lol wrong the hardest spell i can hit a barb is a BT with the rite debuff combo ( hit way ore than BM since BM mos of the time magic marrow >>>>> their phydef is greatly reduce) Anywya on a BM wen he magic marrow , even w/o debuff a BT hits harder than BIDS

Yes I played a wizzard, high lvl but I didn't spend so much to get rank 9 like those lol

Anyway, you can edit your posts to quote me more than once, not that it was very helpful replies tho first-cap-letter-of-each-word-writter lol