What is so wrong with oracle quests?

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · February 2011

At this point in time, it doesn't matter how you end up leveling your character. What's one more dumbass added to the que?

Dixievixen - Heavens Tear · February 2011

LOL 10char

Eden - Raging Tide · February 2011

Marche - Harshlands wrote: »

wrong your a BladeMaster which means many things in essence you are the most retardly over powered class in the game u have the most debuffs the most stuns u can heal your self u AoE out the *** and to top it off u got buffs to keep u alive through w.e u need to do

now being a BladeMaster you have a bunch of different options u can choose for example

Axe

Pole

Sword

Fist

Axe/fist

Axe/pole

Axe/Sword

so on i think u see the pattern

building a BM can be a very hard thing to do o.o but also very easy at the same time

power leveling to 100 on whoralces (as i call them) and hyper does not help you learn how to build/play/master a BM out side of clicking the same buttons over and over to kill a oracle boss

gratz if u oracle u now have the same amount of skill as a bot GG

i did FC with u not bad next time learn what Dragons is please oh and leave the tanking to the ppl that can tank not a 6k hp 9x bm

btw i lied about u doing a good job.....

i gotta say i dont think very highly of u either

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · February 2011

Seeing how you aren't on a PvP server, oracles aren't so bad

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · February 2011

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Seeing how you aren't on a PvP server, oracles aren't so bad

Kinda of on equal footing, just have to change how you disrupt their oracling on a PvE server(Mostly by just gathering up all the mobs an aoeing them to death).

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide · February 2011

My point of view..as same as some others in this thread.. Oracles don't make u learn u char properly.

Ok u'll kill 1000's of wicked pirates. And u'll feel at one point ur owning them. But then u'll get a mob that will poison you (and we know on non-mage classes how that can be) and u'll go "OMG im poison what will I do i'll die !!" or u'll get paralysed/sleeped and wait it out cause u didnt learn that there's genie skills to counter that. .Or even in Bm's case a much later skill that immunes to stun that will get you praises if u know how to use/time it in FC.

I do agree the game doesn't require HUGE learning. But to me on my barb, cancelling a enemy's magic atk and then knowing what skills I can chain up to it (Frigthen/Surf impact/devour, whatever...) before it is ready again is important.

You will soon learn as a BM to have 1-2 and even 3 sparks (hey you said u didn't mind spoilers) and if u don't go 4-5 aps, u will want to know which of your skills gives the most chi to build it back up fast as possible.

You will also learn (either good or bad way) that rushing a magic mob with altar physical on (or vice-versa) WILL hurt.

You will also learn to correctly time some skills. By their cast time and cooldown. Exemple, u will know when "x" mob is about to do it's big attack and "pre-cast" Sutra to start healing through the damage.

Another thing I can tell also, is that if u level slowly and save mats during your way (purify oil, rough fur..u name it) and want to level ur crafting skills.. U won't turn out to be lvl 100 and see that what u need is dropped by a lvl 3x mob and go "omg, drop rate is soo bad"

As a barb i did learn by testing things out. Like if I invoke and THEN alpha male to reflect back damage they will do me..Hmm.. i'll already receive 90% less damage so what will be reflected won't even be worth it b:chuckle

But if I roar to get like 6-7 mobs on me, hit bestial rage then invoke. By the time the 90% damage reduction of invoke will be done, I will already have enough to use sunder to restart regaining hp i'll lose..

I know some people have better techniques then me, but that was an exemple of what training on different mobs do.

I personnly would prefer beeing healed by a cleric lvl 60 that knows when to pury, wellspring, IH, DD between heals if possible then a lvl 100 oracled one that will put only "IH" in a combo and go afk hoping it keeps me alive b:bye

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2011

Is there a Yulk in the making here? b:question

Aubree - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Maybe there isn't HUGE learning but there is learning and adaptation. I give you FB69. Do you remember doing FB69 and needing 2 cleric? Ok 1 if the cleric knew what was up. Some clerics never even lvl'd purify, "Oh you dont need past lvl 3." Quickly they learn lvling it gives then distance and quicker pures. That's an example. Or the archers so bad *** that they steal aggro and get everyone wiped. Seriously up till that FB, FB's were super easy. Then it got a little twist.

I won't mention who cause he is well known player. But I was duoing 3-2 and 3-3 with an archer lvl 100, who didn't even know to aoe the mobs so I didnt get aggro. When I told him he said "Thats how that works?!"

Too many oracles and hypers leaves you behind.

Silest - Sanctuary · February 2011

Umbrotalaris - Archosaur wrote: »

How can someone not know how the game works?

By level 30, or 20 even that person should know all there is to know about how to play the game right? Like how to attack, how to use skills, how to learn skills, how to teach more skills to genie, how to buy and sell, etc?

..No. It's all about knowing what each skill you gain AS you level up does.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Well level up however you want, but the most important thing is to know when to do what.

Other facepalm/rage worthy moments ive encountered:-

1.) lvl100 BM not knowing how to open a TT instance. I mean seriously?

2.) lvl97 cleric npcs all the TT mats (including a gold mat) that we collected since we asked her to sell the mats and split the coin, since she was banking. Luckily this was a 1-3. If it was a 3-x, I wouldve seriously dropped her on a world boss if I could...repeatedly. Still that was a good 1.5 mils down the drain.

3.) lvl95 barb not knowing what trueform is. I was sitting out the entire boss fight.

These are the kind of actions that earn players the title of Oracle Noob/Noob etc more than the fact that they died due to a small mistake or caused a wipe.

So yea, if youre doing it the fast way, ensure you are well aware of your skill's capabilities and know what is expected out of your class in an instance/squad.

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2.) lvl97 cleric npcs all the TT mats (including a gold mat) that we collected since we asked her to sell the mats and split the coin, since she was banking. Luckily this was a 1-3. If it was a 3-x, I wouldve seriously dropped her on a world boss if I could...repeatedly. Still that was a good 1.5 mils down the drain.

Wow, seriously? Must been her very first TT.

Elviron - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Seriously and I have no words to describe my reaction to it.

I highly doubt if that was her first TT if she was up to date on her quests and had access to OHT.

Maybe her first time as a banker. But still, I have no idea what gave her the impression that TT mats are npced to begin with <.<

And I ruled out mat stealing considering it was a faction run and we were doing it because she wanted some money.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2.) lvl97 cleric npcs all the TT mats (including a gold mat) that we collected since we asked her to sell the mats and split the coin, since she was banking. Luckily this was a 1-3. If it was a 3-x, I wouldve seriously dropped her on a world boss if I could...repeatedly. Still that was a good 1.5 mils down the drain.

Sounds like a smart excuse to steal your mats to me...

(Nevermind, ninja'd)

In that case... I don't think I have any words for it...

Elviron - Dreamweaver · February 2011

@nowitsawn
I know but I guess you didnt get a chance to read my ninja post above yours :P

She even posted the screenshot of the action on our forums as proof of not cheating us b:angry

Anyways she learned her lesson and has continued to AH or catshop the stuff now. But still, when that happened everyone was just dumbfounded

CandyCorn - Raging Tide · February 2011

Give your oracles to me and problem sovled

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2011

Umbrotalaris - Archosaur wrote: »

Ok so then

leveling by oracles only (100% of the time) = bad
leveling by some oracles (10% to 30% of the time) and more other quests, dungeons, bosses, etc. (70% to 90% of the time) = good

or

as long as you know how to use your skills the right way you will be fine no matter what method you use to level up

right?

It might be better to ask yourself "how you want to show and portray yourself in this game."
Technically there is nothing wrong with oracles, nor oracling all the way.

But why all the fuss, you say?
lets just list them

- Keeping to all Oracles when you are a new player severly limits your know-how. You will know the basics on how to play. Same as growing up RL, alot of the good things need to be hammered in at a young age, thus builds the proper foundations to head the 'right' way.
- When you have content that is squad based in the last end levels, pple with only basic knowledge become the ones that slow the party down
- Non oraclers will tend to know if your spamming up your levels because these pple blurt out the most idiotic questions and do the most dumbest things naturally. (no joke)

It basically boils down to how much embarrassing moments you want to have and show.
The public mostly complain because they have to sometimes squad with these pple and if they do carry your faction name on their heads, sometimes its an embarrassment.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands · February 2011

Marche - Harshlands wrote: »

wrong your a BladeMaster which means many things in essence you are the most retardly over powered class in the game u have the most debuffs the most stuns u can heal your self u AoE out the *** and to top it off u got buffs to keep u alive through w.e u need to do

now being a BladeMaster you have a bunch of different options u can choose for example

Axe

Pole

Sword

Fist

Axe/fist

Axe/pole

Axe/Sword

so on i think u see the pattern

building a BM can be a very hard thing to do o.o but also very easy at the same time

power leveling to 100 on whoralces (as i call them) and hyper does not help you learn how to build/play/master a BM out side of clicking the same buttons over and over to kill a oracle boss

gratz if u oracle u now have the same amount of skill as a bot GG

i did FC with u not bad next time learn what Dragons is please oh and leave the tanking to the ppl that can tank not a 6k hp 9x bm

btw i lied about u doing a good job.....

you should learn what dragons is DG monkey and i can tank any boss in FC with heals so when i steal agro i tank how about you learn what your suppose to do in a FC squad and i really dont need a good job from a fail bm.

MageMERC - Harshlands · February 2011

Hey OP, when you run higher level instances you will see some players running around everywhere, skilling all over the place, killing mobs and not risking anything and it looks like a well oiled machine.

At other times the players rush in and do a whole range of things that leaves them dead or the whole squad dead.

(you wait till someone AOE's in the FC xp room......)

You REALLY should be trying to be in the first group. The level you are is irrelevant. I dont think power levelling is wrong, but going very high in one go leaves you clueless.

If you want to power level, stop every 10 levels, get your skills and gear up to date and run some different instances to learn how to play your class.

You say all your chars are in the 30's. Keep in mind a reasonable set of 90 gear and skills will easily cost you 50million coins plus and god know how much spirit in total.....

flamingahole · February 2011

I personally have no problem with the majority of people who use oracles/hypers/whatever method of gaining levels quickly. I'd even say that the average oracle noob is competent at his or her class. The stigma of "oracling to high levels automatically makes you fail" is most likely due to a small fraction of those who abuse oracles but most people don't even notice the larger fraction who know what they're doing.

Honestly, if you were squaded with someone who played their class decently but used oracles to reach their level then would you somehow be able to tell if they didn't come out and say it? I wouldn't. The problem lies in those who obviously have no clue what they hell they're doing; those people fail so badly that you remember then the next time you're in the same squad. Sadly, not all of them even power leveled; some of the worst failures I've met gained their levels the "legit" way.

With all that out of the way, don't whoracle your way to 90, that's like skipping to the end of a book in my opinion.

NiightmareXz - Harshlands · February 2011

Marche - Harshlands wrote: »

i did FC with u not bad next time learn what Dragons is please oh and leave the tanking to the ppl that can tank not a 6k hp 9x bm

btw i lied about u doing a good job.....

That's nothing Marche, I went on an FC run with some bm and at the dragons before Hooligan she asked what AoE skills a BM had... b:shutup

Oh, btw, I actually oracled/hypered this character. I would NOT have done this, but I had some circumstances:
- The guild I wanted in because it was full of people I knew very well, wouldn't let me in until I was 7x (Which was 15 levels under their level requirement at the time)
- I already had 3 archers that I got bored of and deleted (The highest at that time was lv 5x) or the account was **** and I couldn't be bothered to save it, so I had a general idea of an archer
- I read all the guides on archers in the archer section of the forum
- I had a very good archer friend who taught me everything I was missing from the gap of 5x to 7x . After 7x, I stopped the oracling and focused on quests, bh and TT. (Sadly, there's about 40 quests in my quest log that I never did and don't intend to do >_>)

I don't believe I suck. The only thing I'm bad at is pvp but I am just plain out sucky at it. I seriously just stand there and take the hits and go to town. I think I've pvp'd about 3 times in my life, and only did 2 TWs, in which I froze up and was just clicking a random skill. Pve wise, I believe I'm quite good at it.
The only time I was called fail was by some random bm in my FC squad... but I think he was more mad at archers in general, because he was saying we are useless in FC. Yeah. Because our AoE isn't amazing and we suck at killing the harpies, and God Forbid we can't stun the bishops if they aren't dead by the time a Bm's stun wears off. Yeah. So fail in FC.
I actually didn't aoe the rest of the time and I watched how long it took to kill the big pulls without my barrage. (Keep in mind it was an 8x squad so it was obviously not as pr0 as 9x) Was quite funny

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2011

flamingahole wrote: »

I personally have no problem with the majority of people who use oracles/hypers/whatever method of gaining levels quickly. I'd even say that the average oracle noob is competent at his or her class. The stigma of "oracling to high levels automatically makes you fail" is most likely due to a small fraction of those who abuse oracles but most people don't even notice the larger fraction who know what they're doing.

Competent? lol It's pretty obvious when someone has hyper\oracled their main to high levels. Most of the time they're absolutely horrible and clueless on how to play their class and especially obvious they have no clue how to play to their strengths and no clue how to play off other classes skills.

It's really obvious when you see someone senselessly skill spamming or not knowing what to do. If you have problems spotting these idiots, it's quite possible that you're one of them.

It's pretty easy to tell when you take someone into FB99, Warsong or Hwilight Hemple and they've never been there as opposed to not having a clue what their skills actually do, how aggro mechanics work or what situations they can handle or just watching them die over and over from stupid mistake after stupid mistake.

Once you learn game mechanics, abilities of other classes, what to expect and how to react to mobs and what everyone's role in a squad is, you have much more leeway too speed level another character because you already have more than a basic understanding of most of the game. Once you understand how one class works in the environment with everyone else, learning another character is much more simple.

Oh, and any horrible or failed character can complete BH or Frost. That's no measure of skill at all. The truth is, the skill level of the player base as a whole took a nose dive when BH was introduced, went even farther south when multiple BH was implemented, and got even worse when Frost was changed, and yet even worse when Hypers were put in the cash shop.

*shrug*

Yukkuri - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Personally, I see this whole knowing your class thing a bit stretched out. The gameplay itself is very, uh... simple. I worry more about the player knowing what's left and right (right part of my sig).

I'm not going with nor against oracles, just throwing my voice in.

Yoyoki - Lost City · February 2011

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Competent? lol It's pretty obvious when someone has hyper\oracled their main to high levels. Most of the time they're absolutely horrible and clueless on how to play their class and especially obvious they have no clue how to play to their strengths and no clue how to play off other classes skills.

It's pretty easy to tell when you take someone into FB99, Warsong or Hwilight Hemple and they've never been there as opposed to not having a clue what their skills actually do, how aggro mechanics work or what situations they can handle or just watching them die over and over from stupid mistake after stupid mistake.

*shrug*

Well ive never leveled past 92 so ive never been to those instances before, so when im running these places for the very first time, people are going to assume im a oracle / hyper noob, which imo is unfair because i know to play my archer and have an understanding of pwi, ive just never ran these high level instances before. b:surrender

LadyofReal - Heavens Tear · February 2011

LOL @ your sig Yukkuri

Oracle noobs, from my experience, always believe that they know how to play their class. That may be the case provided that they did, and continue to do, everything solo. They only begin to realize that they really don't have a clue when they enter the higher level instances and have to question things.

For example:

I did a TT run on my archer a few months back. The squad was composed of me, another archer, 2 clerics, a barb, and a BM; everyone was at least 70. As I always do with other archers in the squad, I had asked him what level his Sharptooth was; he replied with "What's that?"

Another case and point with a BM this time.

Did a 3-3 with a BM in squad, other than myself, who insisted on using his claws and solo targeting a group of mobs. When he was asked to AoE the mobs, he insisted that he killed things quicker going solo target. Which is true, provided that he had the APS required to do so, which he didn't have at the time.

I have done runs with clerics that insisted on using nothing but Blessing of the Purehearted and had no idea what Ironheart or Wellspring Surge even were.

I have met venos who didn't know what amp and purge were.

I have run across sins with no knowledge about Subsea Strike or Bloodpaint.

I have met barbs that relied too heavily on APS and didn't think that Roar, Sunder, Invoke the Spirit, Devour, or Flesh Ream were worth leveling.

I have come across BMs that thought that Demon Aura of the Golden Bell was better than Sage. I will admit that it is better, in the first 10 seconds after it's cast, afterwards it doesn't measure up.

There was a guildie of mine, who I know has been playing this game for at least a year, who asked in guild chat a couple of weeks ago, if purifying equipment took away the refine levels as well.

The point is, it doesn't really matter how fast or slow your character is leveled, what matters is how much you pay attention when in squad with others, how much research you put into whatever build you want, and how much you are willing to listen to people who have been playing longer than you have so you can learn the areas that you need to improve on.

Thrashbarg - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Yoyoki - Lost City wrote: »

Well ive never leveled past 92 so ive never been to those instances before, so when im running these places for the very first time, people are going to assume im a oracle / hyper noob, which imo is unfair because i know to play my archer and have an understanding of pwi, ive just never ran these high level instances before. b:surrender

That is fine, no one should fault you simply for not having been in an instance before (unless you are level 103 and haven't seen the inside of fb99s or warsong.... lol) everyone had a first time sometime.

The problem comes when people haven't taken the time to become proficient with all their skills in a squad setting, do not or will not listen to instruction, or make the same simple mistakes repeatedly for no reason other than inexperience. I get a lot of entertainment from these situations sometimes, but not everyone has a sense of humor like mine.....

LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have done runs with clerics that insisted on using nothing but Blessing of the Purehearted and had no idea what Ironheart or Wellspring Surge even were.
Did you explain to them? By the descriptions in the skill IH and WS look pretty weak to a new player. My first character here was cleric and I didn't know about either till someone kindly explained around level 20.... b:chuckle

I have met venos who didn't know what amp and purge were.

I have run across sins with no knowledge about Subsea Strike or Bloodpaint.

I have met barbs that relied too heavily on APS and didn't think that Roar, Sunder, Invoke the SpiritOnly one level to this one.... at 90% damage reduction for lvl 1 I want lvl 11!, Devour, or Flesh Ream were worth leveling.

The point is, it doesn't really matter how fast or slow your character is leveled, what matters is how much you pay attention when in squad with others, how much research you put into whatever build you want, and how much you are willing to listen to people who have been playing longer than you have so you can learn the areas that you need to improve on. well said

NiightmareXz - Harshlands · February 2011

Yoyoki - Lost City wrote: »

Well ive never leveled past 92 so ive never been to those instances before, so when im running these places for the very first time, people are going to assume im a oracle / hyper noob, which imo is unfair because i know to play my archer and have an understanding of pwi, ive just never ran these high level instances before. b:surrender

That is when you tell them, hey, this is my first time in here! Or do what I do- I take a friend along on new instances that has been in there before, and they just PM me what I need to be doing so I don't look completely stupid to the squad.

But most people are nice about telling someone how to run a certain instance, and if they aren't you should go with guildies and they can teach you on the way.

But please don't tell me you got to 92 without running a single TT ? o_O because that's what your response to Michael's post implies.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Be like me,actually playing real slowly and enjoying it.

What's the point of rushing through levels if you enjoy none of them?Standing in the same spot doing the same thing is kinda boring.

My stand is that occasionally,yes,all the time,why bother.

tehiro · February 2011

the problem with oracles is that they reduce the time you spend squading with others and learning the mechanics and advantages that your class has and how to best contribute those to the rest of the squad.
take for example my class, the archer. i was running bh69 when i realized that rather then sparking for max damage on pole a stronger opening move was to stormrage eagleon him. i know a lot of people have a personal problem with this move and DOT's in general but since i'm not the only DD and i certainly don't want agro this move was better simply for the fact that it casts a speed debuff that bosses can't shake off. the wizard had taken agro a few times and the cleric was only saved by diving into the water, the next time i tried using stormrage and even though some of the DD's stole agro again the reduced speed allowed the tank to grab the boss in time and saved a party wipe.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Wouldn't the best opening move be sharpened tooth arrow?

Yoyoki - Lost City · February 2011

NiightmareXz - Harshlands wrote: »

That is when you tell them, hey, this is my first time in here! Or do what I do- I take a friend along on new instances that has been in there before, and they just PM me what I need to be doing so I don't look completely stupid to the squad.
But most people are nice about telling someone how to run a certain instance, and if they aren't you should go with guildies and they can teach you on the way.

But please don't tell me you got to 92 without running a single TT ? o_O because that's what your response to Michael's post implies.

ive ran TT heaps

im talking about the 99++ instances which ive never been to.
but its a good idea to just try and stick to just guild runs and get used to it, i never do many random runs anyway, ty for everyones advice b:victory

What is so wrong with oracle quests?

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