8 ppl squads PLS ????

zawszeta
zawszeta Posts: 38 Arc User
edited February 2011 in General Discussion
People started qqing about new races replacing old ones. Well they probably will.

Personally I think that 8 ppl squads would be a really good solution. What you guys think?

There were 6 classes and 6 ppl squads. Now we have 10 classes incoming and still 6 ppl squads!!!

For bhs, but especially nirvana and frost some classes are preferred some not. It`s getting harder and harder to find a squad as a wiz, archer or veno. With 6 ppl squad, lets see: need tank, need cleric > 4 spots left. Where will be adleast 1 sin [there are so many sins now there are everywhere!] or even 2 sins [I do bhs every day, there are usually 2 or 3 sins in squad!]. So we have 2 spots left > we take 1 bm cause bms are very usefull. 1 spot. If I have to choose archer, veno, wiz or psy I choose veno or psy and many ppl do that too.

I really think 8 ppl squads when having 10 classes in game is a MUST. What you guys think?
Post edited by zawszeta on
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Comments

  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    They already said, repeatedly, that this will not happen.
  • Cimon - Harshlands
    Cimon - Harshlands Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yea but just cus they said it wont happen dont mean this guy cant speak his peace you people are so quick to quote mods and such that you never really allow a idea to truly flourish
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    They'll just fill the spots with more 5.0 DDs, so it's not like mages will suddenly find people taking them to instances.

    Do you really want to split drops/xp with more people? You already have to run like 3 nirvanas just to be able to split the crystals somewhat evenly.

    PvE is easy enough as it is.
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  • Cimon - Harshlands
    Cimon - Harshlands Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yea only way to get a squad is to know people and be friendly only 5 aps are allowed to be rude
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  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Cimon - Harshlands wrote: »
    yea but just cus they said it wont happen dont mean this guy cant speak his peace you people are so quick to quote mods and such that you never really allow a idea to truly flourish

    let us nurture this idea so that it can grow up to be big and strong and spawn 80 pages of replies. even though it will never happen this idea deserves a chance to survive on planet idea.

    lets talk about the inter-server teleport stones, and same sex marriage, and undoing the TT hard mode patch, and making TW pay coins again, and refunds from land bidding, and restoring DQ prices, blah blah blah blah.
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  • Lady_of_rage - Lost City
    Lady_of_rage - Lost City Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    No, no, no, no.
    Do you have any idea the kind of pressure the cleric will be under with eight people in a squad, especially if they're incompintent fools? And besides, that will cut exp. even more in Frost and such.
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  • zawszeta
    zawszeta Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Guys I just wanted to know other people`s opinion:) Not troll hate or make GMS do it.

    They may do it they may not I just wanted to know opinions. Sorry I didnt notice they already said they won`t make 8 ppl squads. Noone said they wont change their minds thou;D

    Yes I have a cleric and its said new mistic can heal I think? Also you could have 2 clerics in squad, 2 clerics on 6 ppl to heal better then 1 on 5 ppl you know....;) And it`s not about how many ppl there are in squad, it`s about how they can play so cleric wont have to heal everyone all the time [like ppl in bhs 39 - all ppl and squishies runing into exploding mobs... lol]

    So what if new DDs will take other 2 spots? Without those 2 spots they will need a squad anyways...

    So how you imagine it today for the future? I see squads like

    Barb
    Cleric
    2 sins
    2 mistics/earthguards

    Or
    Barb
    cleric
    sin
    2 mistics/earhtguards/
    psy/bm

    I`m not a hater, I don`t say some classes are better some worse!

    I just say with 8 ppl squads EVERY class would have "more space" to fight for getting a squad :)

    I just throw an idea to make things better for all of us:)
    Just wanted people to state their opinions and when expanison comes - all can check how close to the thruh we were.

    And for exp cutting - for bhs you get exp for boss, not mobs, so maybe make 8 ppl squads just for bhs? Or make mobs in frost/nirv give more exp/drops? Its not impossible I guess... Just some modyfications for 8 ppl squads...:)
  • ManeK - Harshlands
    ManeK - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They already said, repeatedly, that this will not happen.

    Quoted for truth.

    /nuffsaid
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  • skyraiserdm
    skyraiserdm Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    raising the squad size to 8 would be a nice improvement...

    to all those who said 6 is enough: it is possible to leave 2 slots blank, it's not a must to go with 8!
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  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    They'll just fill the spots with more 5.0 DDs,
    PvE is easy enough as it is.

    That about sums this whole ordeal up.
  • Amencat - Sanctuary
    Amencat - Sanctuary Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    the only thing this would be good for is Rebirth (betta/gamma/delta), but couse noone does it so who cares how many ppl in squad are,
    usually there are only 3 spots needed: barb, cleric, bm and 3 DDs if you want it fast so 6 is actually more then enough
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  • zawszeta
    zawszeta Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Well probably yes, so? Those new DD clases will need squads anyways. And usualy when a DD looks for squad now its "sorry, got 1 spot for tank.cleric". The proportions of tanks and clerics available for squads and DDs needing squads are bad - with more spots open more DDs could find a squad. They will need squads anyway and it will be 'old DDS' or 'new race DDs' to choose from soon I personally think.
  • SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary
    SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Major overkill...

    Even 6 medium geared is already enough in most instances.
  • zawszeta
    zawszeta Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Of course it would be overkill with current bosses/mobs hp, BUT it`s not about 'enought for a not fail intance', it`s about 'how many ppl will be able to find spot in squad' [mostly wizzes, archers, venos with no herc, who already have some problems finding a spot in some cases].

    I just say some clases have problems finding a spot now and will have MORE problems when expanison comes.
    And to add - not everyone is a pro or with interval and cool cashshop gears which makes finding squad much easier... so game is less and less fun for new-in-mmos and good-old-poor-non cashopers who wanna have fun too ;D [no offence but some ppl here are tideborn 90+-100+ > dudes, you cashshop... don`t say you don`t... finding a good squad for you with interval is mega easy... it is sometimes different for non cashshopers;)]
  • Valrond - Heavens Tear
    Valrond - Heavens Tear Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Cant agree.
    At all u ve 3 kind of sqads.
    1.overpowered like 5.0+maybe cleric
    2.medium players w. medium gears ( non cs or light cs )
    3.fail sqad w random ppl w sh* gears/skills

    If they ll increase sqad slots to 8 :
    1 that kind of sqad ll take more 5.0 or ll stay with 4-5ppl ( to get more drops/exp per person)
    2.lot of players from that kind sqad cant afford for unlimited hypers or playing whole day so if they looking for funny run -smooth with good exp/drop <-> time so if they can do it in 5-6ppl they wont take more cause it ll kill exp/drops at all
    3.that kind sqad ll take evryone - lvls , gears, experience doesnt matter - lot of deaths, lot of time wasted cause lazy or greedy ppl ( like flaying over map after each boss [bh case] or afking in instances . So its wasting time at all.

    So for nonCS players best way is get to sqad no2.
    To get it u need :
    -spent tele's and build it yourself
    -ve luck and risk - join random sqads from worldchat
    -factions or friends

    So best way to ve good sqads its charage bunch of $.
    Best way to get good sqad +fun + friends is just find some nice ppl and make some friendships. I pref do run 10min more with awsome friendly ppl then take some uber nolife 5.0 who r playin like bots , and talk only when wana show off with gear or coins/gold . + they hypering/oracle to 100 and just get gear so no idea how to fully use own classs powers - just spark + /attack again n again.
    I works for my gears/int and ill need do it much more to complete gears so good geared ppl is 1 things and nolifes is 2nd thing and big dif between it ( thats i dont like all qq about int ) i just dont sqad with stupid ppl

    u r veno/wizi and cant get ff? just go with friends, i know -int sqad is faster but i always take wizi/veno friends and other classes too . Cause i life play with friends.


    Sry for my english i know my post is hard to read and can be confusing i still working on this lang.

    So at all. Its mmporg. u want ve fun? stop qq about int or spots and just make friendships. Ull ve much more fun and no prob with sqads ( until u r rly fail - even then ppl ll try to learn u how to play or help get gears /help means help- not leech some1 like some morons trying to do/ )
  • AuroraLucia - Archosaur
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Why is it that everyone seems to think these new classes will replace any of the old ones?

    Does Mystic have BB to cut everyone's damage in half while healing them as well? No.

    Does Mystic have purge and amplify like a Veno does? No.

    Does Seeker have aggro specific abilities to replace a Barb? No.

    Does Seeker have the AoE stun and Heaven's Flame to increase damage? No.

    Is the Seeker heavy armor or arcane armor? Heavy, so I doubt it can tank PQ zhen as well as a Wizard.

    I really don't think I need to go on with this. All of the current classes still have skills which make them important in certain parts of the game. The new classes will compliment the old ones, as well as bring a new style to the game.
  • Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary
    Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary Posts: 448 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    zawszeta wrote: »
    Well probably yes, so? Those new DD clases will need squads anyways. And usualy when a DD looks for squad now its "sorry, got 1 spot for tank.cleric". The proportions of tanks and clerics available for squads and DDs needing squads are bad - with more spots open more DDs could find a squad. They will need squads anyway and it will be 'old DDS' or 'new race DDs' to choose from soon I personally think.
    Your whole premise of extending from 6 to 8 is based on two things: a) Two new classes; b) more spots means more DDs in squad.

    a) When the Tideborn were released there were two new classes added but squad size was not increased then. Based on prior precedent there is no need to increase it now either.

    b) Yes there will be more spots for DDs if squad size was expanded but there will be instead of 1/6th of loot & XP you will only get 1/8th. Why do we need more DDs in squad... to kill faster? Take a 5aps Sin/BM. ...because some DDs (venos, wizards, archers) don't get invited much? Reroll a 5aps Sin/BM :(

    I'm afraid that your first argument is baseless due to prior precedent and your second argument does not solve the problem unless there was a mechanical limitation that a squad of 7 must include at least one of the "unloved" DD classes and a squad of 8 must include at least two of the "unloved" DDs... If PWI implemented such a mechanic then the power-squads are simply going to stay to 6 and only invite 5 aps Sin/BMs, just like Rawrgh said, and if they do not implement such an enforced limit the power squads will invite two more 5aps Sin/BMs.

    Increasing squad size doesn't solve the problem of "unloved" DDs... a patch which gives all classes relatively equal utility in a squad eliminates the "unloved" class problem.
  • maestro120
    maestro120 Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    Why is it that everyone seems to think these new classes will replace any of the old ones?

    Does Mystic have BB to cut everyone's damage in half while healing them as well? No.

    Does Mystic have purge and amplify like a Veno does? No.

    Does Seeker have aggro specific abilities to replace a Barb? No.

    Does Seeker have the AoE stun and Heaven's Flame to increase damage? No.

    Is the Seeker heavy armor or arcane armor? Heavy, so I doubt it can tank PQ zhen as well as a Wizard.

    I really don't think I need to go on with this. All of the current classes still have skills which make them important in certain parts of the game. The new classes will compliment the old ones, as well as bring a new style to the game.

    What does one class not replacing another have to do with the OP's point ?

    And that point being... the "mage" classes right now are catching hell trying to get invited into the more popular instances full stop and maybe... (although I doubt it) an increase in squad slots will help those classes with more competition around the corner.

    So a mystic won't replace a veno. Well gee... fat consolation to the pet summons class who can spam WC all day and yet not get one invite. At least the mystic will have aoe heal abilities which gives him a slight edge for that final spot when no one can find a cleric available. And don't give me that rubbish about veno's amp, purge and chi passing being so wanted by squads either. Aps just about made that (along with everything else) obsolete.

    Naturally, you can replace veno with wizzi, psychic and (to some extent) archers in the above post while you're at it.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »
    Why is it that everyone seems to think these new classes will replace any of the old ones?

    Does Mystic have BB to cut everyone's damage in half while healing them as well? No.

    Does Mystic have purge and amplify like a Veno does? No.

    Does Seeker have aggro specific abilities to replace a Barb? No.

    Does Seeker have the AoE stun and Heaven's Flame to increase damage? No.

    Is the Seeker heavy armor or arcane armor? Heavy, so I doubt it can tank PQ zhen as well as a Wizard.

    I really don't think I need to go on with this. All of the current classes still have skills which make them important in certain parts of the game. The new classes will compliment the old ones, as well as bring a new style to the game.

    (not a necro b:surrender)

    But I wanted to say..

    http://img5.178.com/w2i/201101/88108321505/88109020690.jpg

    I think they can tank PQ with BP on.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Lady_of_rage - Lost City wrote: »
    No, no, no, no.
    Do you have any idea the kind of pressure the cleric will be under with eight people in a squad, especially if they're incompintent fools? And besides, that will cut exp. even more in Frost and such.

    1. Don't squad with the fools
    2. Who said you can't use one of the two new spots for another.......cleric......
    3. Who said you had to fill a FC squad with 8 how about you just.....still use 6.....
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Lol, I can already see Nirvanas being done in less than 5 minutes each with a squad consisting of 8 5.0 DDs.
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  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    NV Time: 10 mins max with 8 people squad :D

    Squad consists of:

    Barb for HP and Attk increase buff
    Cleric (For when people die)
    5.0 Sin
    5.0 Sin
    5.0 BM
    5.0 BM
    5.0 Sin
    5.0 BM

    As long as one BM knows to use HF or gets told to be the HF ***** then the bosses (one's that HF work on) will take like a few mins or less xD
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Lol, I can already see Nirvanas being done in less than 5 minutes each with a squad consisting of 8 5.0 DDs.

    we're already doing it in 8 minutes with 6 so what's 3 minutes less honestly. b:chuckle
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    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    we're already doing it in 8 minutes with 6 so what's 3 minutes less honestly. b:chuckle

    Well, that's the difference between 7-8 runs/hour and 12 runs/hour.

    More runs/hour -> more drops/hour -> more profit/time -> happy people.

    And really, considering everything, people will care about those few minutes, especially since it's from 8 to 5. Heck, I've gotten rejected from FCCs because I didn't want to try soloing Shades at my level. At my level, a Frost already takes quite a long time and soloing the Shades saves maybe a few minutes off a competent squad. So the actual gains are much, much less than getting to do Nirvanas 3 minutes faster.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, that's the difference between 7-8 runs/hour and 12 runs/hour.

    More runs/hour -> more drops/hour -> more profit/time -> happy people.

    And really, considering everything, people will care about those few minutes, especially since it's from 8 to 5. Heck, I've gotten rejected from FCCs because I didn't want to try soloing Shades at my level. At my level, a Frost already takes quite a long time and soloing the Shades saves maybe a few minutes off a competent squad. So the actual gains are much, much less than getting to do Nirvanas 3 minutes faster.

    I'd still be doing the same amount of nirvana's a day 3 minutes less a run or not. Just means I save a bit of time doing those.
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  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Why have 8 person squads when most instances can be soloed? Instances are easy enough with the +30 attack blessings.
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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »
    the only thing this would be good for is Rebirth (betta/gamma/delta), but couse noone does it so who cares how many ppl in squad are,
    usually there are only 3 spots needed: barb, cleric, bm and 3 DDs if you want it fast so 6 is actually more then enough

    delta is already easy, last time we had Archer DC and never come back on ~stage 3, finished that one mind you. Gamma? Last time I did gamma I did it with my lvl 79 archer, 1.5 years ago, back then flawless shards were "OP" and immaculate "wtf is that?", point being, gamma is lot easier than delta, which is quite easy for current average gear.

    The other problem with bigger squads is the facked up droprates as it is but that will be ignored, like anything unrelated to cashshop.
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  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Why not just have a 12 person squad? Forget a 5 minute Nirvana, just rambo it in 30 seconds.

    120 runs per hour, not bad.

    I think they should reduce squad size to 4 or 5, honestly. 5 is more than enough for instances... It would be nice having 6 in some TT's and such though. And put in 'ultra hard mode' for TT3-x to make it more interesting. Would force more to buy Rank.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    At this time there are no plans to increase party size.
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  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    frankieraye wrote: »
    At this time there are no plans to increase party size.

    thank god for this imagine an 8 person 5 aps squad? there would be no point in trying to get into a party.
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