Sage/Demon Question

Krisza - Dreamweaver
Krisza - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
edited February 2011 in Assassin
I've heard plenty of debates about Sage Sins versus Demon Sins. I'm sort of fleshing ideas out for both, although it will be a while until I hit 89. b:chuckle

Anyways, I've heard Demon is the best way to go, especially if your aiming for 5aps. But I was looking at ecatombs calculator...thing... and Sage doesn't look half bad either.

I don't PK or PvP (and I'm not sure if I ever will in the future....though maybe TW one day?), so for purely PVE based is Demon still far better than Sage?

I did meet a Sage Sin once that did a ton of dmg, though I keep hearing people QQ about Sage Sins. Maybe that's just in my circle of friends though?


I kinda just want your opinions. Discuss.
Post edited by Krisza - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • JebakLesny - Dreamweaver
    JebakLesny - Dreamweaver Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    im demon sin but i rly like to have sage sin in sq. sage BP is greate, sage SS is greate but demon sparks r best b:dirty
    whatever u choise its depence of your style of playing
  • Yanami - Heavens Tear
    Yanami - Heavens Tear Posts: 289 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I love being Sage. The BP is awesome...until everyone knows you have it and they bug you for it constantly...>_>

    Sage Dagger Devotion is nice, too, and with the extra damage, helps with getting more HP back with BP on. I prefer the extra damage over 2% crit (that's what Demon gives, right?).

    If I can get 4 APS eventually (and could get 5, I hear, with Wind Shield...though if you spark, the defense thing or whatever on Wind Shield will overwrite the one spark gives you), I'll be pretty happy with that.

    Sage Subsea is also nice, too, on top of all other debuffs...things go down pretty quickly. When I go solo grind on a bunch of group mobs my level (or a few higher), with Subsea then Sage Earthen Rift, I can easily two-shot almost everything.

    I'm not too particularly fond of Demon Assassins 'cause the mass majority that I ever squadded with...all they do is spark, spark, and spark and never ever doing any debuffing like Subsea or more importantly: Rib Strike. s: Drives me nuts. The DDing is really nice but still doesn't excuse to why you can't squeeze in a Rib Strike every now and then, especially if you have Demon Rib Strike. And also, with all the aggro they draw to themselves, a lot of them don't pay attention to their HP...and only their chi bar...and end up dying...a lot >_>. I'm not saying you (or everyone) will be like that...I guess I was just letting off a little steam...XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Matsuo_Basho - Harshlands
    Matsuo_Basho - Harshlands Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm sage too.
    I got 5 aps thanks to Wind Shield. Sage bloodpaint, sage wolf emblem and sage dagger devotion are basically the most important lvl 11 skill I got at the moment.
    I'm not cser, therefore I can't afford incredible refine on my gears, but on istances I use to tank everything because I can steal aggro almost everytime.
    Plus, we have to remember the bonus of sage spark (thing that not everyone does)..this makes sage assassin able to tank more easier.

    I'd say,
    If you are a lazy player, or you can't afford very good gear, go demon.
    Sage, in my opinion, is better only if you can afford a very good gear.

    Funny thing,
    people use to say that sage assins are fail but, when they got sage bloodpaint, everyone wants them ^^
  • ZeaKuro - Raging Tide
    ZeaKuro - Raging Tide Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Go sage if you like using your skills, go demon if you like sparking.

    I'm sage btw. b:victory
    as-sas-sin
    /əˈsasin/
    n.
    1. One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
    synonyms: murderer, killer, gunman, executioner, informalhitman, hired gun.
    Latin assassnus; Greek δολοφόνος
  • Krisza - Dreamweaver
    Krisza - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    See I have been leaning more towards sage for all of those reasons you guys just pointed out. To be honest, I don't actually spark much and I enjoy using rib strike often...especially on solo.

    Not to say I am incredibly rich, but I can afford decent gear...maybe not extremely good gear and since I don't cs much at all my refines are usually **** b:chuckle

    Thanks for the opinions, I did a search before I posted but all I saw was QQ on sage or demon and nothing that really informed me of anything. b:laugh

    And yea, I kinda want sage bp too. b:victory
  • ZeaKuro - Raging Tide
    ZeaKuro - Raging Tide Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Sage spark isn't bad. I spark quite often [especially when tanking] but I also mix in skills with it. With a sage spark I can knock out FC mobs in a few hits.

    Also, as a side note. The most OP any sin can be is sage sin with a warsoul [90% DD on a warsoul] plus throw in some APS gear...... b:shutupb:avoid
    as-sas-sin
    /əˈsasin/
    n.
    1. One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
    synonyms: murderer, killer, gunman, executioner, informalhitman, hired gun.
    Latin assassnus; Greek δολοφόνος
  • Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver
    Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    what the OP needs to ask himself/herself is what do you want in your sin? personally I'd like a tad bit more survivability. pdef, resistance, stuns, hell even sage bp. personally I'm sage too, and I love every bit of it, not to mention sage focused mind = 33% chance of 1 dmg :3


    ANYWHO I say look up the skills, learn your character and playstyle; really think on what you want to do with it.
  • Shurtgal - Heavens Tear
    Shurtgal - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    yah well sage is best imo if u can get goodgear.. like arnd 2.87 aps without sparking.. or 3.33 aps without sparking... then sage is awesome... with its bp, dagger devotion, and all... u CAN do wat i am doing.. go demon frm 89 fr aps and ****... and when u hit 100 and u see u can get money fr good gear and stuff.. change to sage...
    btw i think sage slipstream strike increases attk rate o.o
  • ZeaKuro - Raging Tide
    ZeaKuro - Raging Tide Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Shurtgal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yah well sage is best imo if u can get goodgear.. like arnd 2.87 aps without sparking.. or 3.33 aps without sparking... then sage is awesome... with its bp, dagger devotion, and all... u CAN do wat i am doing.. go demon frm 89 fr aps and ****... and when u hit 100 and u see u can get money fr good gear and stuff.. change to sage...
    btw i think sage slipstream strike increases attk rate o.o

    Slip stream does, though it really isn't good enough to mention.
    as-sas-sin
    /əˈsasin/
    n.
    1. One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
    synonyms: murderer, killer, gunman, executioner, informalhitman, hired gun.
    Latin assassnus; Greek δολοφόνος
  • Thinkalot - Dreamweaver
    Thinkalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Both Sage and Demon have their advantages and drawbacks.

    This :
    If you are a lazy player, or you can't afford very good gear, go demon.

    However is not so true. Even Demon sins need good gear. Most that choose demon want to spark endlessly to attain as much APS as possible. You cannot reach that with average gear.

    Think about a lunar cape, the wristguards, TT99 stuff...Tome.....etc etc.

    BOTH of em need good gear for their purpose.

    This :
    Go sage if you like using your skills, go demon if you like sparking.

    IS true. As a Demon i hardly use skills unless it's warranted in certain situations or just to add chi (+150 chi with 1 skill....)

    As Sage, you will use more skills since some are way better on sage.

    But this doesn't mean a demon sin won't use skills. It's just that in most cases just the high aps will do it's job better and faster then using skills. ANY (decent) skill takes channeling time. That's time lost in damage per second, and trust me, it makes a HUGE difference. But sometimes certain skills are effective or needed.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm a sage sin, and I love it. Only downside I ever found was ppl starting all the time "omg you're so dumb! sage on a sin sucks blablabla". This happens pretty much at the start of any fcc or bh.

    I refuse to think of any of both culties better then the other though. Honestly, demon and sage are equally good, it's a personal choise (it's just a pitty most demon sins went demon just cause ppl tell them to do so, rather then choosing themself). Without wanting to offend others that posted, I think the reflexions like "sage is better when you're rich" or "sage is better only when you can reach above xxx aps" is all bs. Imo it's a matter of personal choise and playstyle. I don't believe in "the 1 best build".

    Sage spark increases survivability a lot, even without sage bp and dagger devotion. Like Matsua said, if you do have those 2, sage will allow you to solo a lot more/easier then sage (I'm not demon, but I concluded this comparing with demon sins with +/- equal gear). Sage is also awesome with spike damage build like yanami said, you can kill almost any mob your lvl with subsea > rift if you got at least 1 at sage lvl. As for damage, sage sin really isn't bad. You'll do more damage then a demon fist bm with equal gear, and I end up holding/getting aggro from demon sins even with equal refines. This is mainly cause my armor is all sharded with DoT while demon sins usually go for citrines. With sage spark I don't really need more hp ;)

    In short, don't listen to those ppl who say sage sucks. Just do what you want :P Honestly, there is no wrong choise.
  • Krisza - Dreamweaver
    Krisza - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I still have plenty of time to decide but I am definitely leaning towards Sage atm. I like survivability, I literally have no vit though except for shards/gear - and no refines at the moment. (Oh wait, no, my chest piece is refined b:chuckle)

    I tend to die... a lot. So survivability is something I like. I, personally, like a Sage Sin in FCC - though, ya, I also see a lot of complaints against them. Demon sins frankly annoy me when I'm on my cleric - suicidal much? xD

    Thanks all, this helped a ton.
  • _Leif - Lost City
    _Leif - Lost City Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    However is not so true. Even Demon sins need good gear. Most that choose demon want to spark endlessly to attain as much APS as possible. You cannot reach that with average gear.

    Think about a lunar cape, the wristguards, TT99 stuff...Tome.....etc etc.

    BOTH of em need good gear for their purpose.

    You can demon spark endlessly with -.10 int (tt 90 gold bracers) and a combination of tackling slash / RDS / Inner Harmony.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    You can demon spark endlessly with -.10 int (tt 90 gold bracers) and a combination of tackling slash / RDS / Inner Harmony.

    No, you can't perma demon spark at 1.43 APS base, which is 2 APS sparked. You need at least 2.5 sparked to constant demon spark by rotating chi skills. Try it.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sage spark increases survivability a lot, even without sage bp and dagger devotion. Like Matsua said, if you do have those 2, sage will allow you to solo a lot more/easier then sage (I'm not demon, but I concluded this comparing with demon sins with +/- equal gear).

    Sage spark does increase survivability, but all sage BP does is make a sage Sin heal about the same as a demon Sin with normal BP.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sage is also awesome with spike damage build like yanami said, you can kill almost any mob your lvl with subsea > rift if you got at least 1 at sage lvl. As for damage, sage sin really isn't bad. You'll do more damage then a demon fist bm with equal gear, and I end up holding/getting aggro from demon sins even with equal refines. This is mainly cause my armor is all sharded with DoT while demon sins usually go for citrines. With sage spark I don't really need more hp ;)
    I'm really getting tired of this "sage = spike" thing. Since 10X Sin should have around 450 DEX, the damage multiplier for sage would be 1+450/150 +0.9= 4.9; and for demon would be 1+450/150 + 0.75 = 4.75. Sage mastery has about 3% over demon in terms of damage per hit. Sage Chill gives 5 more attack levels, so for an average player w/o DoT but with Jone's blessings, it'll be 65 attack levels for sage and 60 for demon. 1.65 times the damage vs 1.6 is another 3% difference. So in total you are looking at 6% more damage in your normal skill spamming with sage over demon. That "spike advantage" is made up by 240% crit damage of demon vs 220% of sage with Wolf Emblem. Demon gets 2% crit from mastery so "spikes" more often also. Yeah for sage, Subsea + Earthen does more damage than their demon counterpart, but you aren't really going to kill anyone with that unless you are aoeing lowbies. So please, enough of the sage spike thing. Everyone seems to believe that once you go sage, you'll zomgwtfoneshot everything with CoD. So please, don't make me explain this again.

    Demon is more PvP orientated with its longer stuns + short bust of spike damage, while sage is PvE orientated with damage reduction, more healing to make up for slower APS, less need to spam buffs and etc.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    You can demon spark endlessly with -.10 int (tt 90 gold bracers) and a combination of tackling slash / RDS / Inner Harmony.

    You can tripple (sage or demon) spark endlessly with a combination of tackling slash/RDS/inner harmony/genie, without any -int add on any of your equipment b:chuckle

    For both culties, better equipment will enhance your possiblities. That is why good equipment is usefull for both culties. Heck, it even counts for every class and cultie. You honestly think a demon sin could do with TT90 gold bracers and the rest 1* npc while a sage sin needs full r9 to be of any use? (exagerating ofc, but I'm sure you understand what I mean)
  • _Leif - Lost City
    _Leif - Lost City Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    No, you can't perma demon spark at 1.43 APS base, which is 2 APS sparked. You need at least 2.5 sparked to constant demon spark by rotating chi skills. Try it.

    Use shadow escape, forgot to mention it. I'm not sure if you're using the chi gain moves during demon spark (i generally wait til its over). Also, spam tackling slash as permitted by the cooldown
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You can tripple (sage or demon) spark endlessly with a combination of tackling slash/RDS/inner harmony/genie, without any -int add on any of your equipment b:chuckle

    For both culties, better equipment will enhance your possiblities. That is why good equipment is usefull for both culties. Heck, it even counts for every class and cultie. You honestly think a demon sin could do with TT90 gold bracers and the rest 1* npc while a sage sin needs full r9 to be of any use? (exagerating ofc, but I'm sure you understand what I mean)

    Using cloud eruption to perma-spark is a terrible idea imo. Wind shield is somewhat understandable, but arguably not as efficient and cost effective as demon spark.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    Use shadow escape, forgot to mention it. I'm not sure if you're using the chi gain moves during demon spark (i generally wait til its over). Also, spam tackling slash as permitted by the cooldown

    Even if SE makes up for the chi in the first cycle, you are not going to be able to spam it constantly to make up for chi with 90/75 seconds cooldown. Plus, it takes 3.5 seconds to channel + cast and that's a lot of time wasted.

    Go to the ancient seadragon (my target practice) and try it out. Start with full chi and only bracers, or only dags if you have -0.1 dags, and see how many cycles of demon sparks you can do, even with SE.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    Using cloud eruption to perma-spark is a terrible idea imo. Wind shield is somewhat understandable, but arguably not as efficient and cost effective as demon spark.

    It's more the opposite lol. windshield overwrites sage sparks 25% damage reduc (ofc on demon windshield while sparked is a total waste). At low aps windshield is way less effective then any chi gaining skill. And we were talking about low aps.

    On a side note, best I found is chi siphon when it goes about pve. As sage with 2.5 aps I use chi siphon and inner harmony for perma spark, and rds to subsea or powerdash. This is more effective then windshield. I got it, but use it when not in sage sparked state or when have to kill fast without needing to spark 2+ times i.e. bosses that drop within 15-20sec. With chill I'm at base aps, and can still keep spark up constantly using all chi skills on genie and my own. So that is why I say you don't need any -int for perma spark.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm still not of the proper level, but I do have the experience to decide my cultivation way before I hit 89. And I'm going Sage.

    I have quite a few reasons why, some small, some bigger. When I first looked at Sage and Demon skills, my first reason for wanting Sage was permanent Wolf Emblem. Not needing to rebuff it once a while sounds great, especially since it effectively adds a few crit%. For example, at 24% crit, the Sage Wolf Emblem is equal to having 28.8% crit. Of course, the same is, on average, true for Demon Wolf Emblem, but it's just not quite the same in practice.

    When I looked more into it, I found a few interesting skills. I doubt that I'll ever reach 4-5 APS, so I figured I'll end up being more useful by using Subsea whenever possible. From there, I got another reason: Sage Subsea is great. Of course, over the same time period, Demon Subsea is equal or better, but that's just the point: it requires more time to get the same effect, so Sage Subsea is "faster". Also, Sage Power Dash is clearly superior to the Demon version. Sage Wolf Emblem + Sage Subsea + 40% Crit = Effectively 100% Crit for 8 seconds.

    Other than that, I found that Tidal Protection and Focused Mind had much better Sage versions.

    Of course, there are a few good Demon skills, assuming that you ever get to use them. For example, Demon Rising Dragon Strike might help you spark more often and the heal on Inner Harmony sounds pretty cool.

    In my case, I already have a Demon Archer, so if I wanted to go for APS, I would rather use the Archer.

    Also, if you count Sage Wolf Emblem into the crit of a Sage, they actually ALWAYS get more crit% than Demons. So the whole discussion about who has the better mastery is pointless as Sage wins by default.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Halt - Harshlands
    Halt - Harshlands Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon is more PvP orientated with its longer stuns + short bust of spike damage, while sage is PvE orientated with damage reduction, more healing to make up for slower APS, less need to spam buffs and etc.

    I would actually disagree with this, and say both are about equal in terms of pvp. How many good sins actually use triple sparks in pvp divine? We are on the same server and you know 90% of the sins here try to triple and occult ice, which takes absolutely no skill.


    Regarding the topic, I'm sage. It is more difficult then demon. Demon is easier. At this point, I wished I went demon.

    Edit: God damnit, I wrote this from the wizzy I'm trying to level. It's Woneo.
    Unban me.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Halt - Harshlands wrote: »
    I would actually disagree with this, and say both are about equal in terms of pvp. How many good sins actually use triple sparks in pvp divine? We are on the same server and you know 90% of the sins here try to triple and occult ice, which takes absolutely no skill.


    Regarding the topic, I'm sage. It is more difficult then demon. Demon is easier. At this point, I wished I went demon.

    Edit: God damnit, I wrote this from the wizzy I'm trying to level. It's Woneo.

    In terms of level 11 skills, demon's longer stuns and Wolf Emblem is orientated towards PvP, you can't really disagree with that. I'm not sure where triple sparks comes in, regarding to what you quoted.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sage spark does increase survivability, but all sage BP does is make a sage Sin heal about the same as a demon Sin with normal BP.


    I'm really getting tired of this "sage = spike" thing. Since 10X Sin should have around 450 DEX, the damage multiplier for sage would be 1+450/150 +0.9= 4.9; and for demon would be 1+450/150 + 0.75 = 4.75. Sage mastery has about 3% over demon in terms of damage per hit. Sage Chill gives 5 more attack levels, so for an average player w/o DoT but with Jone's blessings, it'll be 65 attack levels for sage and 60 for demon. 1.65 times the damage vs 1.6 is another 3% difference. So in total you are looking at 6% more damage in your normal skill spamming with sage over demon. That "spike advantage" is made up by 240% crit damage of demon vs 220% of sage with Wolf Emblem. Demon gets 2% crit from mastery so "spikes" more often also. Yeah for sage, Subsea + Earthen does more damage than their demon counterpart, but you aren't really going to kill anyone with that unless you are aoeing lowbies. So please, enough of the sage spike thing. Everyone seems to believe that once you go sage, you'll zomgwtfoneshot everything with CoD. So please, don't make me explain this again.

    Demon is more PvP orientated with its longer stuns + short bust of spike damage, while sage is PvE orientated with damage reduction, more healing to make up for slower APS, less need to spam buffs and etc.

    ZOMG it's Okeano the big deffender of demon sins lol. Seems you missed a lot of points.

    First of all, +25% att speed will never make you heal 50% more. Since you love math, you must understand that. Also, sage bp is a buff so in squad it actually benefits others a lot, especially bms (or barb in aoe, on single target it won't do much).

    Second point, I don't agree with you at all (never said sage chill would 1 hit players pvp btw). OP stated that she was pve orientated so bringing up pvp has nothing to do with it. So 2 other reasons I qualify sage as spike damage is powerdash ofc. And most of all, sage sin is way easier to shard with DoT thanks to sage spark. I didn't read back, but I said sage was easier for a spike build (if I didn't, my bad). That is different then saying sage always is spike build...

    Your last point, I wouldn't qualify either cultie being more orientated to 1 aspect. There are a lot of discussions on it, but mainly depends on the player. Some never spark in pvp, others do all the time. On my fl are 2 sins that were made for pvp, and 1 is sage, other is demon. Both think their cultie is best for pvp. Then again, has nothing to do with the topic
  • ZeaKuro - Raging Tide
    ZeaKuro - Raging Tide Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    As I said, I'm sage sin, and I have no problem perma-sparking. And that is without using shadow escape as the only time I keep spark stacked is when I'm tanking for the added def. I seem to tank quite often anymore. b:cute

    Also, on RT server I have yet to meet anyone talking bad about sage sins. Everyone seems to love the mixture of support and DD.
    as-sas-sin
    /əˈsasin/
    n.
    1. One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
    synonyms: murderer, killer, gunman, executioner, informalhitman, hired gun.
    Latin assassnus; Greek δολοφόνος
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm going demon because I'm an aps addict.

    I've read and studied on which I should go, based on my playing style, and it's definitely demon. Demon is screaming at me when I read what has been said in this thread. So that's why I'm going demon ^^

    And what ZeaKuro says is true. There has yet to be any bad-talk about sage sins on RT. I just can't wait until I get to 4-5 aps.
    [SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
    Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
    youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ZOMG it's Okeano the big deffender of demon sins lol. Seems you missed a lot of points.

    First of all, +25% att speed will never make you heal 50% more. Since you love math, you must understand that. Also, sage bp is a buff so in squad it actually benefits others a lot, especially bms (or barb in aoe, on single target it won't do much).

    First of all, demon spark isn't +25% att speed, you must understand that. It's a nice party buff, but I was just pointing out that it doesn't make a sage self heal 50% more than a demon. At 3.33 base, both cult will heal at the same rate. Demon will be sparking to 5, and 5*2 = 10; while sage will stay at 3.33, and 3.33*3=9.99. Hence my "but all sage BP does is make a sage Sin heal about the same as a demon Sin with normal BP." The difference comes down to sage taking less damage from spark, but as I've mentioned, sage is better for PvE.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Second point, I don't agree with you at all (never said sage chill would 1 hit players pvp btw). OP stated that she was pve orientated so bringing up pvp has nothing to do with it. So 2 other reasons I qualify sage as spike damage is powerdash ofc. And most of all, sage sin is way easier to shard with DoT thanks to sage spark. I didn't read back, but I said sage was easier for a spike build (if I didn't, my bad). That is different then saying sage always is spike build...

    I brought up PvP because it contrasts the advatage of sage for PvE. As it's a general trend for most classes that demon is designed for PvP and sage for PvE. Sage Dash is 10% more crit, yeah, but it's more like 8% more since sage is already 2% crit behind. 8% crit doesn't make sage better for spike since the times you are not on Dash, you are constantly 2% crits behind.

    Sure, sage Sin is easier to shard DoT, if you only PvE. Since you are not sparking most of the time in PvP so DoT makes you even squishier than Sins already are. See a pattern here that I was trying to point out? In case you missed it, sage for PvE demon for PvP. I'm sorry if I brought up PvP if the OP said she doesn't PvP. Maybe I should've said "sage for PvE, demon for something else".
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Your last point, I wouldn't qualify either cultie being more orientated to 1 aspect. There are a lot of discussions on it, but mainly depends on the player. Some never spark in pvp, others do all the time. On my fl are 2 sins that were made for pvp, and 1 is sage, other is demon. Both think their cultie is best for pvp. Then again, has nothing to do with the topic

    Cults do orientate towards PvP or PvE. Else, what is 2 seconds of extra stun going to do in PvE? Having a crit dmg buff that requires constant buff every 20 seconds and to use in PvE, vs one that lasts half hour? Having BP to heal 50% more, even tho 2% or 3% are both useless in PvP?
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Woot! first time I see you admit sage has good points. Seems you finally got my point even though you don't really seem to get it. You always look for 1 ultimate with your figures, but forget there is ppl behind it so there is no ultimate build/culti. That is why I say culti has nothing to do with pvp or pve.

    Funny you ask me if I see the pathern you ask me if I see your pathern, seems from your post you finally got mine. I suppose there's no point in argueing any longer. There's no 1 best way, just several ways to do good.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Woot! first time I see you admit sage has good points. Seems you finally got my point even though you don't really seem to get it. You always look for 1 ultimate with your figures, but forget there is ppl behind it so there is no ultimate build/culti. That is why I say culti has nothing to do with pvp or pve.

    Funny you ask me if I see the pathern you ask me if I see your pathern, seems from your post you finally got mine. I suppose there's no point in argueing any longer. There's no 1 best way, just several ways to do good.

    If that was the first time you saw, guess you didn't see my first post then, or things I've posted in other 400 sage vs demon threads.
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon is more PvP orientated with its longer stuns + short bust of spike damage, while sage is PvE orientated with damage reduction, more healing to make up for slower APS, less need to spam buffs and etc.
  • Matsuo_Basho - Harshlands
    Matsuo_Basho - Harshlands Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Both Sage and Demon have their advantages and drawbacks.

    This :



    However is not so true. Even Demon sins need good gear. Most that choose demon want to spark endlessly to attain as much APS as possible. You cannot reach that with average gear.

    Think about a lunar cape, the wristguards, TT99 stuff...Tome.....etc etc.

    BOTH of em need good gear for their purpose.

    This :


    IS true. As a Demon i hardly use skills unless it's warranted in certain situations or just to add chi (+150 chi with 1 skill....)

    As Sage, you will use more skills since some are way better on sage.

    But this doesn't mean a demon sin won't use skills. It's just that in most cases just the high aps will do it's job better and faster then using skills. ANY (decent) skill takes channeling time. That's time lost in damage per second, and trust me, it makes a HUGE difference. But sometimes certain skills are effective or needed.


    uhm I'm kinda late to answert you since I don't visit forum a lot.
    You are completely wrong.

    Demon has an advantage on sparking, they can have more aps then a sage when they have the same gear, so a sage assassin has to improve more then a demon to get the same value of aps.

    of course demons need good gear, I think it is obvious.
    But true is the fact that a sage sin, to kick asses has to work harder...
    The work i made to reach 5 aps, is slightly harder then the work that a demon has to do.
    Think about the tome for example.
    A damon basically don't need an interval tome for 5 aps, a sage does..and I think you know how worth is that.
  • JebakLesny - Dreamweaver
    JebakLesny - Dreamweaver Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If u go sage bec of better skils remember 1 thing, thoes skils u can lern at 99lv. (SS, BP, ER)
    after 89lv u can lern WolfEmblen, and fev more
    at first i wanna go sage bec of that skils but wait 10lv's to lern them. hmm i choised demon n im happy with that. may be if im gona be bored of demon i can switch to sage b:laugh
    anyway with good items sage or demon r easy to play
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Oops ignore this.

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