bb plz

LeLelle - Sanctuary · January 2011

Was on a BH59 with a level 100 archer tanking for us. I was having a hard time keeping him healed up. About a third of the way to one of the bosses he asks for bb. Im thinking he wants bb for the next boss. Dont really need bb for this BH. I make a mental note.

A few minutes later he asks again. At this point I am realizing he wants bb for the whole run. I do my best to pretend I don't see the requests.

A couple of days later, I am helping out on a 202020 & FB69, get a request for bb no where near the boss. This from a level 89 assasin who is standing in while the BM and barb are afk. I was forced to defend my refusal on this one.

I just hit 70 so these are all new dungeons to me. I am wondering if frequent bb is a common practice in higher level runs? If so, where do the clerics come up with the necessary sparks?

Angel_Undead - Sanctuary · January 2011

LeLelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I just hit 70 so these are all new dungeons to me. I am wondering if frequent bb is a common practice in higher level runs? If so, where do the clerics come up with the necessary sparks?

Usually there is a veno in squad, ask them to pass a spark. They get the skill Lending Hand at 46. The discription is Exchange vigor with target ally. It means you pass a spark to the selected person.

And it depends on the squad. When you're doing the 20/20/20 it is nice for a large group of mobs, several people with strong AoEs to play aggro tag, bb is helpful.
59 cave depends on the person. Your IHs might not be enough to keep such an archer alive. BB seems more like a recommended choice.

And if you don't have the ability to get sparks from a veno? Ask them to give you a moment, stack IH till you have the sparks needed.

Hope this was helpful.

Decus - Dreamweaver · January 2011

LeLelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I just hit 70 so these are all new dungeons to me. I am wondering if frequent bb is a common practice in higher level runs?

It depends on the dungeon. You do not need BB for any FB/BH until 89, where the mobs AoE in Brimstone. In any instance where enemies AoE, you are rounding up a large number of mobs, or the bosses hit very hard on the tank, then it is preferred. However, I found that many people are just lazy and don't feel like managing aggro.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide · January 2011

You've not seen the half of it. xD I've personally never needed to BB in BH59 before, aside when the group aggros more than 2 or 3 mobs at once. In BH69 some squads ask for BB for Pyro, albeit it is unnecessary. You -can't- BB for nob and pole as the AoE cancels it. In instances like Warsong, BH100 or delta however, you will find that BB will be your most used skill. Where do you get the spark? Venos help but you don't need to rely on them. Genies have a skill called cloud eruption, which instantly gives you approximately one and a half sparks, depending on the skill level and stat distribution on your genie. Also to save cost and to remain efficient, if there is any point in time that your squad has stopped (waiting for other squad members etc), use that time to build up chi. I personally use Blessing of the Purehearted for this as I have it at level 1. It costs virtually nothing to spam and gives 15 chi per cast. Hope this helps. (:

DeadRaven - Sanctuary · January 2011

As a cleric myself, I can understand why it gets annoying when people keep wanting BB...and ya, like Decus said, it is often because people are just being lazy and do not want to manage aggro (or simply do not know how to which is often the case *sigh*).

However, BB is actually rather useful in BH 59. If you BB at Zimo, Ofo, and Qianji then everyone can go all out without having to worry about who has aggro. Indeed, with BB, arcane (psychics, wizards, clerics, venos) are the best at tanking these bosses since they just do magical attacks from a distance. Arcane are also great for tanking Drake and Glutt since these bosses only do DoT on ranged characters. All you need to do is purify the DoT. It confuses me why squads always want to wait to find a barb for BH 59 when one is not needed.

For BH 69, BB is preferred only for pyro so that everyone can go all out and not worry about aggro bouncing. Pryo is a wimp so anyone can take aggro if BB is up. Only other use for BB in BH 69 is if you are doing 20x3 and you have a decent barb rounding up large numbers of mobs at a time (like you would do in FCC).

Anyways, sounds like you had one frustrating run

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · January 2011

DeadRaven - Sanctuary wrote: »

However, BB is actually rather useful in BH 59. If you BB at Zimo, Ofo, and Qianji then everyone can go all out without having to worry about who has aggro. Indeed, with BB, arcane (psychics, wizards, clerics, venos) are the best at tanking these bosses since they just do magical attacks from a distance. Arcane are also great for tanking Drake and Glutt since these bosses only do DoT on ranged characters. All you need to do is purify the DoT. It confuses me why squads always want to wait to find a barb for BH 59 when one is not needed.

I may have read this a little wrong, but if you have an arcane who can deal enough damage to keep aggro, then really you don't need BB. IH and purify on drake and glut is more than sufficient. Anyone with decent magic defense can range tank the bosses easily.

However, if you have someone like a sin tanking, they may be relying on the damage reduction that BB gives to survive moreso than your heals. You can argue that DD's should know how to nerf their damage so that they don't pull, but really, if they can tank with BB, it really speeds up the process for everyone.

There's reason to BB and reason not to BB, but it really depends on your squad makeup.

But as for using BB the rest of the run, I really don't see how it's needed unless something goes wrong and too many mobs get aggro'd. Plus I find it hard to imagine that a level 100 of any character would need BB in there, especially for mobs. Unless of course he was running it naked. /shrug

For getting sparks - if you go sage, you'll get a skill that gives you 50 chi and can be used every 30 seconds. Other than that, Cloud Erruption, spark pots, and venos are the way to go.

Boots_Elf - Sanctuary · January 2011

If a barb.. or anyone tanking for that matter, asks me for BB.. who am i to say no? I am the cleric and it is my job to keep him/her alive and if thats what they want thats what they get.. Its my job. Its not my job to refuse or say no. I wont get asked on FB's or BH's if i say no. Some Barb's or tanks like to play roundup and run to the BB so everyone can kill everything and be safe. As for chi? Wellspring surge gives you chi and there are pots for it also. No biggie.. Unless you want to tank.. lol.. just do what the tank asks.. if he ends up dying cause he wanted BB instead of IH.. then its his fault not yours. Why be a cleric if your not gonna do your job? I mean we have BB for a reason.. use it if they want it.

DeadRaven - Sanctuary · January 2011

Boots_Elf - Sanctuary wrote: »

If a barb.. or anyone tanking for that matter, asks me for BB.. who am i to say no? I am the cleric and it is my job to keep him/her alive and if thats what they want thats what they get.. Its my job. Its not my job to refuse or say no. I wont get asked on FB's or BH's if i say no. Some Barb's or tanks like to play roundup and run to the BB so everyone can kill everything and be safe. As for chi? Wellspring surge gives you chi and there are pots for it also. No biggie.. Unless you want to tank.. lol.. just do what the tank asks.. if he ends up dying cause he wanted BB instead of IH.. then its his fault not yours. Why be a cleric if your not gonna do your job? I mean we have BB for a reason.. use it if they want it.

I understand wanting to accommodate peoples needs, and I do often acquiesce to peoples suggestions, however, I am a cleric, not a bloody slave! I don't tell the barb what to do because I respect his knowledge and abilities to play his own character. All I ask for in return is the same respect for my knowledge and abilities to play my cleric. The barb should not be telling you what to do with your character, he should be telling you what he plans to do with his character. You are the cleric, not him. That makes you the expert on deciding how it would be best to keep him alive.

Having said that, I am always willing to listen to peoples "suggestions" especially if they are more knowledgeable and experienced than myself about my class or about the situation we are in. The key word there is suggestion because "cleric" is not synonymous with "slave"!

DeadRaven - Sanctuary · January 2011

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I may have read this a little wrong, but if you have an arcane who can deal enough damage to keep aggro, then really you don't need BB. IH and purify on drake and glut is more than sufficient. Anyone with decent magic defense can range tank the bosses easily.

I totally agree, BB is not absolutely necessary for Zimo, Ofo, and Qianji, I only suggested using it with these 3 bosses as it allows most party members to go all out with their attacks without having to worry about aggro bouncing (like one does at pyro), which, like you say, helps to speed up the kill. If you have someone that can hold aggro with no problem then ya, I would go with IH as well. Sorry if I did not express my thoughts clearly b:surrender

BarbLord - Raging Tide · January 2011

DeadRaven - Sanctuary wrote: »

I totally agree, BB is not absolutely necessary for Zimo, Ofo, and Qianji, I only suggested using it with these 3 bosses as it allows most party members to go all out with their attacks without having to worry about aggro bouncing (like one does at pyro), which, like you say, helps to speed up the kill. If you have someone that can hold aggro with no problem then ya, I would go with IH as well. Sorry if I did not express my thoughts clearly b:surrender

Funny Thing is when I did bh59 on my sin and half of the time there was no decent tank around(agro wise)
I ended up tanking as sin with a pretty stable agro on me
Still I needed the BB because otherwise my sin would be a 2-3 shot

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · January 2011

if they ask BB and I think that BB would be enough lol, sure, i put up a BB and enjoy the show.

cheaper than IH spam, more relaxing, can chat,
no need to switch targets, heals, debuffs attacks...

if squad wants me to be lazy...b:chuckle

concerning the spark issue, usually i get a ton of sparks and i dont really want to spark as a cleric $:\$
plume shell and purify cant eat a lot of chi either.

about OP's run:

if the archer wanted BB not only for bosses but during the run
1)he wanted to lure all/a lot of mobs and aoe'd them
2)he is an idiot

if he just wanted BB for bosses:
1)he has crappy armor
2)he is an idiot
i can solo that cave with a bit of crab meat and he wants BB for the bosses? lol

but well, if a lvl100 asks me to do something on my 7x cleric generally I should do it...

Mekkhala - Lost City · January 2011

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if they ask BB and I think that BB would be enough lol, sure, i put up a BB and enjoy the show.

cheaper than IH spam, more relaxing, can chat,
no need to switch targets, heals, debuffs attacks...

if squad wants me to be lazy...b:chuckle

concerning the spark issue, usually i get a ton of sparks and i dont really want to spark as a cleric $:\$
plume shell and purify cant eat a lot of chi either.

about OP's run:

if the archer wanted BB not only for bosses but during the run
1)he wanted to lure all/a lot of mobs and aoe'd them
2)he is an idiot

if he just wanted BB for bosses:
1)he has crappy armor
2)he is an idiot
i can solo that cave with a bit of crab meat and he wants BB for the bosses? lol

but well, if a lvl100 asks me to do something on my 7x cleric generally I should do it...

was prolly #2 for those....my archer is **** geared (no gear over +2...wep at +4) and all he needs is a few IH in 59. Last cleric I did it with ended up meditating during the boss....

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary · January 2011

DeadRaven - Sanctuary wrote: »

I totally agree, BB is not absolutely necessary for Zimo, Ofo, and Qianji, I only suggested using it with these 3 bosses as it allows most party members to go all out with their attacks without having to worry about aggro bouncing (like one does at pyro), which, like you say, helps to speed up the kill. If you have someone that can hold aggro with no problem then ya, I would go with IH as well. Sorry if I did not express my thoughts clearly b:surrender

Not totally true. I was helping with a 59 run a couple of days ago, the cleric was 71, my charm ticked about 30 times because he would say "ill bb" and IH me instead, I thought it was to get chi, but he never did bb. On the last boss, I don't think he needed, either logged or dc'd. I'm hoping he dc'd. But he never came back so I asked a cleric from faction to come and help, she did bb on Drake without my requesting it, she did it because that was the best choice in her mind.

I can keep aggro on the bosses as long as, you give me a moment to Spark before you attack if your a sin. I say that because on Ofo, I was in middle of a spark when the sin took aggro and died. I said sorry, and made sure he was quickly revived because that was my mistake, I didn't remind him I was going to spark.

By the way, I'm 98 and cleric couldn't keep me healed with IH. Yet on a fb and not bh run, the tabber was the cleric, and the 59 cleric was able to keep me alive without charm ticks.

I was glad I was charmed, otherwise the whole squad would have died, but that's too many charm ticks in my opinion.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · January 2011

Two things could be happening. One has already been touched on. They were either asking to Zhen (will explain mechanics in a second) or were more LF for the damage reduction from bb on bosses, as well as predicting aggro hop.

Zhening is when someone rounds up all the mobs, aggros them, and then brings them back to a bb where everyone goes ape-sht crazy on them until their dead. The BM stuns, everyone aoes, the barb roars and hopes aggro lasts till most the mobs are dead. The veno dumps sparks back to the cleric incase bb goes down. Much quicker then killing mobs one or two at a time. I'm guessing this is what your archer was looking to do.

As for bosses, fist BMs stat for 3 str/2 dex, and have base vitality. They are also weak to magic attacks and can almost be 1 hit by them, not mention a boss normally pairs a magic immediately followed by a phys attack. Archers are common aggro stealers and usually go 1str/4 dex. Sins do the same build. Psychics, wizards and venos usually add a little to vitality but alot don't going for pure dd. Nowadays a barb rarely can hold aggro, so its easier to just decide early who does the most dd and will have aggro, and heal them from the start. The problem is your talking about healing a sin with 3k hp in BH59, rather than the barb with 8k.

Solution? BB so only half the damage is recieved and the let the bb heal and bp fix the rest. Same with fists BMs. That way rather than dieing if they take 3-4 hits with not enough heal they can survive 5 or 6 and usually bb is enough.

When you do it this way the cleric doesn't have to worry about aggro, DDs don't have to hold back, the barb can use devour (which normally would make it harder to hold aggro since it increase DD output) or can chose to go human and DD standing up, using Penetrate Armor (another pdef reducer). Things go MUCH quicker. Clerics can IH and use seals outside bb but IH spaming costs more mana and if the barb doesn't need to worry about aggro than devour is more effective than the clerics pdef seal.

BH Bosses I'd recommend a DD tank with bb instead of IHing a barb are:
Farren (prolly won't have it by BH39)
Fushma
Zimo, Ofo, Qianji
Pyro
All bosses in BH79
All bosses in BH89
Most bosses in BH99s WILL cancel bb but squads still prefer you start with it and they'll try to kill before its interupted. Target whoever has aggro while in bb and if it drops immediately WoP, WS, IH, SoR them.

As you can see, endgame DDers are expected to tank more and more with the aid of BBs damage reduction. Cloud eruption on your genie can be a squad saver.

_Pale - Sanctuary · January 2011

Mostly in the last year people started asking more and more for BB.
IH spam is cheaper then BB; just pop an apo pot ( mp regen) and you got 10 min of IH spam without need for any other pot. If you use BB, you'll need to keep potting to keep BB up.
Clerics would use all their skills before, now they are requested to BB at lower and lower lvl, even in instances where they wouldn't have had BB in their arsenal before ( FB/ bh 51 and even higher clerics helping in bh 29) and they agree to this request under pressure or because they don't know any better then that this is their best skill.

In the end everyone loses because the clerics won't know what they are capable of doing and the squad will never learn how to play together as a team. When the devs think up a boss where you need to work together, these squads mostly can't ( or don't want to) do it and need to resort to OP measures.

The speed at which a boss drops because DD's go "all out" at lower levels doesn't really make runs go that much faster. If the runs need to go faster: be on time, don't go afk, don't go to town to "hand in bh " and fly back... etc. When a DD dies his contributing damage is zero, when the cleric is in BB and can't rez, the contributing damage from that DD remains zero.

BB is a great skill, and is attractive for lower level clerics because it protects the cleric from blame ( "I did my job, BB was up"). That Blue Ball gives a lot of peace of mind to everyone in squad, even if it's not the best heal in every circumstance or the best protection for the squad in every case.
Depending on the squad, sometimes BB is the way to go. In some cases it's neccessary and sometimes not. It's sometimes basically an acknowledgement to the squad that failure is imminent ( and should be percieved as such ) .

If we keep telling archers everytime where and when to sharptooth and barrage, barbs when to lure, flesh ream and roar or to invoke, when to run and when not to, sins when to use bloodpaint, venos when to purge and amplify and use lending hand, BM's when to use myriad , etc... They would most likely suggest you switch to their class if you know so much, and I think they would be right. I think the same thing applies for clerics who are being told what to do though. Anyone can roll a cleric and play it as their main.

The main reason people ask for clerics to BB at lower levels is because they want to go on autopilot themselves and do not really care about managing aggro or they just don't trust the clerics...

P.S. setting up at the right spot and the casting/channeling time to put up BB, will sometimes kill DD's and tanks faster then IH on the tank.

Flying_Flash - Sanctuary · January 2011

Hmm, the only time I ever use BB is if the boss has some nasty AoE that can't cancel it, pulling large mobs, or if there is more than one cleric and the boss hits really hard on the single tank.

BB does reduce damage by half but the heals from BB pretty much are terrible when compared against an IH spam. Sure I can completely understand if you're scared of being one shot to put it up, but otherwise I'd much rather go with IH. Heals soo much more and you're able to debuff and attack a little if you have the chance.

I know its great for some bosses but for others you can do a much better job without it and I'm not just talking about the ones that interrupt skills.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary · January 2011

Flying_Flash - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmm, the only time I ever use BB is if the boss has some nasty AoE that can't cancel it, pulling large mobs, or if there is more than one cleric and the boss hits really hard on the single tank.

BB does reduce damage by half but the heals from BB pretty much are terrible when compared against an IH spam.

Perfect example of that is I've had a single cleric and a 101 barb tanking Wurlord, IH spam didn't work and neither did BB because the barb's charm was still ticking. Neither were at fault but we agreed to get another cleric to spam IH aswell as one using BB to make sure things went smoother and we weren't getting squad wiped every few moments because the combination of factors.

LeLelle - Sanctuary · January 2011

Thanks everyone for the insight. Myself, I was thinking the archer was an idiot.

Now I think i will spend some time experimenting with BB in BH59.

Boots_Elf - Sanctuary wrote: »

If a barb.. or anyone tanking for that matter, asks me for BB.. who am i to say no? I am the cleric and it is my job to keep him/her alive and if thats what they want thats what they get.. Its my job. Its not my job to refuse or say no. I wont get asked on FB's or BH's if i say no. Some Barb's or tanks like to play roundup and run to the BB so everyone can kill everything and be safe. As for chi? Wellspring surge gives you chi and there are pots for it also. No biggie.. Unless you want to tank.. lol.. just do what the tank asks.. if he ends up dying cause he wanted BB instead of IH.. then its his fault not yours. Why be a cleric if your not gonna do your job? I mean we have BB for a reason.. use it if they want it.

I can't abide this.

My job is to know when something is wrong and why. An unreasonable request could happen for a couple of reasons. Poor armor. Why buy armor when the cleric has a charm? And there is always the LA wearer whos been waiting for a charmed cleric to show off his superstar abilities.

I will definitely be keeping a closer eye out for folks wanting to round up. Ill put BB on a key so I can activate it quicker. Anything making the run faster is a good thing.

I've been seeing a lot more squad wipes lately. To me it looks like people are getting more impatient and dont want to pull properly. If I could jump in the middle if these messes with a fast BB. . .

Frijolero - Sanctuary · January 2011

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if he just wanted BB for bosses:
1)he has crappy armor
2)he is an idiot
i can solo that cave with a bit of crab meat and he wants BB for the bosses? lol

but well, if a lvl100 asks me to do something on my 7x cleric generally I should do it...

Most 5 aps Sins and Claw archers request BB on bosses to ensure survivality thanks to it's 50% dmg reduction, and to prevent a squad wipe if there's more than 1 5aps ganking on boss, saving them HP food and MP food for me, since 90% of the time they finish the boss before my MP pool goes under 2k.

But if you don't wanna BB on bosses, be my guest. I'll prefer you to spend your HP food to keep you alive rather than I spend my MP food in keepin' you alive at any time b:pleased

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

Perfect example of that is I've had a single cleric and a 101 barb tanking Wurlord, IH spam didn't work and neither did BB because the barb's charm was still ticking. Neither were at fault but we agreed to get another cleric to spam IH aswell as one using BB to make sure things went smoother and we weren't getting squad wiped every few moments because the combination of factors.

Worlord from 2-3? I remember doing 2-3 once with a 100+ tank with me beign the only cleric and he managed quite well the boss. But 2 clerics on that run is always recomended cause of the reason you stated.

DeadRaven - Sanctuary · January 2011

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not totally true. I was helping with a 59 run a couple of days ago, the cleric was 71, my charm ticked about 30 times because he would say "ill bb" and IH me instead, I thought it was to get chi, but he never did bb. On the last boss, I don't think he needed, either logged or dc'd. I'm hoping he dc'd. But he never came back so I asked a cleric from faction to come and help, she did bb on Drake without my requesting it, she did it because that was the best choice in her mind.

I can keep aggro on the bosses as long as, you give me a moment to Spark before you attack if your a sin. I say that because on Ofo, I was in middle of a spark when the sin took aggro and died. I said sorry, and made sure he was quickly revived because that was my mistake, I didn't remind him I was going to spark.

By the way, I'm 98 and cleric couldn't keep me healed with IH. Yet on a fb and not bh run, the tabber was the cleric, and the 59 cleric was able to keep me alive without charm ticks.

I was glad I was charmed, otherwise the whole squad would have died, but that's too many charm ticks in my opinion.

You were tanking with your level 98 veno with a level 71 cleric healing you... and your charm was ticking? 0.o Sorry, but that has nothing to do with using IH, that has to do with having a poor cleric. Maybe his IH skill was not leveled or something.

I stand by what I said. If I know that the tank can hold aggro, and has enough HP to stay alive with IH, then using BB is a waste of a cleric. By using IH, I am free as a cleric to also debuff and DD in-between casting IH, thus making the kill go by a lot faster.

Seriously, the first time I did FB/BH 59 was to do my FB with my level 62 cleric. My tank was a friend with a level 66 BM. I kept him alive with IH, no charms used by anyone. Sorry you had an unskilled cleric for your run but it does not change my opinion of when to use BB and when IH is better for BH 59.

Edit: Having said that, I have to admit that sometimes one has to change tactics depending on the skill level of the players. Perhaps BB would have been better for your run considering the weak abilities of your cleric. There is a time and place for everything as the saying goes.

SinfulGuise - Sanctuary · January 2011

DeadRaven - Sanctuary wrote: »

Edit: Having said that, I have to admit that sometimes one has to change tactics depending on the skill level of the players. Perhaps BB would have been better for your run considering the weak abilities of your cleric. There is a time and place for everything as the saying goes.

Right. But I also view it as....I have a charm on For a reason, keep me alive, which was good but also annoying. I will be doing my part to avoid running with the cleric if I'm charmless and/or I'm tanking, seems mean but I don't want my charm to end up being in a cooldown next time and I end up dying causing a squad wipe.

You're in my squad and entrusted me to tank, I'm not going to leave because I die unless it's excessively and I will say that before leaving. You put your lives in my hands, I'll do my best to keep you alive.

And sorry that this is a bit off topic but remember the cleric said he'd bb then just IH the whole run. I almost said something but I didn't want him to decide to up and leave when the squad needed him even if it ment a little more pain on my part.

Tojop - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Sinful, being a tank is not the same as being able to solo without heals. You are absolutely right in pretty much everything you've said; a mediocre gear 7x arcane should be able to tank 59 with a 7x arcane cleric healing, without incident. The fact that you're 99 is....appalling. Your charm should not have ticked once, unless you got aggressive and ran ahead or something. Chalk that one up to a new (fail) cleric b:surrender

ugysekell · January 2011

Get Cloud Eruption on your genie for sparks. (:
Also, lately I have to BB a lot in BHs because of the freaking noobs (especially sins) who think they can tank anything and play aggro war with the Barb and of course they end up dead and suuuure it's all my fault when they get 2hit killed by a boss............ -_- BB is better if you have idiots who steal aggro a lot. Smart quads are better, I just IH the Barb, I wish all squads were like that...

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · January 2011

ugysekell wrote: »

Get Cloud Eruption on your genie for sparks. (:
Also, lately I have to BB a lot in BHs because of the freaking noobs (especially sins) who think they can tank anything and play aggro war with the Barb and of course they end up dead and suuuure it's all my fault when they get 2hit killed by a boss............ -_- BB is better if you have idiots who steal aggro a lot. Smart quads are better, I just IH the Barb, I wish all squads were like that...

While I agree that the sins (and any other DD) that don't know how to control their damage when they're not trying to tank is an idiot, but if they can tank it with BB, why the hate? Sins being able to go all out from the beginning can cut the time to kill a boss by 1/4 of the time or more.

I don't see how having a character sit out for half the fight so that a cleric can heal the traditional tanking class with only IH makes for a smarter squad. Also, your tank may not have aggro skills - such as a wizard on Drake.

But yes, stealing aggro when can't tank something just because seeing big numbers strokes your e-peen does make you an idiot.

ugysekell · January 2011

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While I agree that the sins (and any other DD) that don't know how to control their damage when they're not trying to tank is an idiot, but if they can tank it with BB, why the hate?

No, they cannot TANK with BB. BB just reduces the damage they take so they don't die in 2 hits. At this point, they have a chance to stop attacking and lose aggro. If I heal normally, I concentrate on the Barb only and I do not expect other people (any class) to steal aggo, therefore I often do not have enough time to save them. How do you heal someone who gets instant killed? :P lol.

Edit: ^ this is about lower BHs. In FCC, most people have better gear so they are easier to heal, even if they accidentally steal aggro.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · January 2011

ugysekell wrote: »

No, they cannot TANK with BB. BB just reduces the damage they take so they don't die in 2 hits. At this point, they have a chance to stop attacking and lose aggro. If I heal normally, I concentrate on the Barb only and I do not expect other people (any class) to steal aggo, therefore I often do not have enough time to save them. How do you heal someone who gets instant killed? :P lol.

Edit: ^ this is about lower BHs. In FCC, most people have better gear so they are easier to heal, even if they accidentally steal aggro.

Tank =/= solo. Tanking means surviving until the boss is dead and holding aggro from the rest of the squad.

My sin tanked every bh59 from about level 75 on if we had BB. I agree with you that dying in 2 hits doesn't qualify as tanking, but if BB was up, it took a few hits to even get close to ticking my charm.

Before you start talking about aggro control, I used to fight bosses with Chill of the Deep on and waiting until 2/3 hp to start attacking. Without sparking and when using crappy, underlevelled skills, I could still steal aggro easily. (Usually from wizards, but also from some barbs).

While it's true that not everyone can tank that doesn't mean that everyone in x class can't. It's both ignorant and arrogant to tell someone that they can't do something, especially when they've done it before.

IMHO, it's great to concentrate on the designated tank, but to expect other classes to not steal aggro with the way the game is now is foolish and lazy. Barbs are getting rarer and other classes are getting more powerful. Learn to adapt.

I do understand the going down in 1-2 hits point tho. I've had my cleric yelled at plenty of times for not healing the 1-shot. IMO, clerics get yelled and screamed at much more than they should and usually for things that aren't their fault. But, this isn't any reason to turn around and paint a black and white picture for all classes of "this is how it is always".

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

ugysekell wrote: »

No, they cannot TANK with BB. BB just reduces the damage they take so they don't die in 2 hits. At this point, they have a chance to stop attacking and lose aggro. If I heal normally, I concentrate on the Barb only and I do not expect other people (any class) to steal aggo, therefore I often do not have enough time to save them. How do you heal someone who gets instant killed? :P lol.

Edit: ^ this is about lower BHs. In FCC, most people have better gear so they are easier to heal, even if they accidentally steal aggro.

Why is it wrong for any class to ask for BB? Same can be said about barbs on Wurlord...any pre 10-x barb will ask for BB, what will you do then? What about World Bosses? Try tanking Sword, Dipter, Ossein Lord, Sentinel, etc etc any of that without BB using any class.

Who cares whether they would've been two shot without BB as long as it dies with BB why does it matter?

ugysekell · January 2011

Um, what? I never said it's wrong to ask for BB... I just said a Cleric shouldn't BB in lower BHs, but they have to, because noobs can't watch their aggro. Weird, I never stole aggro on my Archer in her 92 lvls... -.- I just remove my rings and stop attacking for a while when I crit 3 times in a row. If players were smart / more careful, Clerics wouldn't have to BB all the time, it would be enough to IH the tank.

Nella - Sanctuary · January 2011

ugysekell wrote: »

Um, what? I never said it's wrong to ask for BB... I just said a Cleric shouldn't BB in lower BHs, but they have to, because noobs can't watch their aggro. Weird, I never stole aggro on my Archer in her 92 lvls... -.- I just remove my rings and stop attacking for a while when I crit 3 times in a row. If players were smart / more careful, Clerics wouldn't have to BB all the time, it would be enough to IH the tank.

I agree with this and I blame hypers, they made too many fail players. I joined this game early 2009 and I dont remember having BB in BH59. now clerics must put up BB at bosses because barbs can't keep aggro and others steal it. sometimes barb's fault sometimes DD's fault but its sad too many people don't know ther own skills.

xixiri · January 2011

heh same problem, had to put up BB too often until I stopped and let people die and learn from their mistakes. I told them to play their class right - I told the Barb to use his aggro skills often and told the DDs to watch their attacks. And guess what it worked, I ended up healing Barb only. This happened in several BHs not only 59. BB is a good idea for a squad that is full of aggro stealers but I think it's even better to TEACH people how to play, because yes, hypers spoil players, sadly.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · January 2011

ugysekell wrote: »

Um, what? I never said it's wrong to ask for BB... I just said a Cleric shouldn't BB in lower BHs, but they have to, because noobs can't watch their aggro. Weird, I never stole aggro on my Archer in her 92 lvls... -.- I just remove my rings and stop attacking for a while when I crit 3 times in a row. If players were smart / more careful, Clerics wouldn't have to BB all the time, it would be enough to IH the tank.

But you did also say that certain classes cannot tank.

It's not always a question of people being able to control their aggro. Sometimes the concern is time. If a DD can tank, there's no reason not to let them.

I agree that a cleric shouldn't have to BB, but depending on the squad, it can be the best option.

bb plz

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