This made me lol (your view)

Old news.

By now you should know that anything the GMs say is just pretty words with no meaning whatsoever. The only thing that they've done properly is the Dragon Points.

I think most of us knew it was a lie back then. We can easily see PWI staff blatantly wants 1 gold to seem a LOT more valuable, i.e 2 packs for 1, make gold a lot higher so people are drawn cash shop sell gold to buy gear, their goal is to make in game time/farming seem like a waste and to convince people to buy gold
in theory great business strategy, in practicality, its being a horrible game manager and just general greedy pos.

It's hard how to judge that... Did they make an earnest effort to try and remove coin sources and add coin sinks to bring the economy back in line? Or did they just drive a bunch of players that loved TW cash payment away from the game? The introduction of various sales has had a clear correlation to the rise and fall of gold on the exchange market and it seems that TW war, whie it may have played a part in "too much coin in the economy," was not the root cause.

Latest speculation I've heard is that the merchant class, those that buy and sell packs (or whatever is hot like Rep and R9 medals), now control the price of gold. Someone still has to farm coin though for merchants to make a profit... having a credit card but no coin farmers would result in an auction where there's lots of gold but nobody able to buy it.

Edit to add...

YordaUjain - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...yeah, I guess your right. It's just funny seeing this now and looking at things now. Nothing has changed, the thing that strikes me is the fact they say they will do something and never really do it. I guess it seems a lot more clear when you actually see it in front of you and look back at what actually has been done instead of a player telling you what things are like.

In any case old news or not i'm glad I found this post, it is all the proof I need.

But things HAVE changed... back then the price of gold was 400-500k and it was considered painfully high which drew lots of complaints and GMs saying "we're trying to do something about it" (and they did nerf TW pay). However, packs at fire sale prices, reputation sales at nuclear catastrophe prices enabling cheap access to very powerful Rank-8 gear, Dragon Orb Ocean sales, etc. all motivate those sitting on tons and tons of coin to buy gold and drive the price through the roof (it was 903k bid-ask average for the 15 days before the reputation sale ended and is only just now "down" to 723k or so).

The problem is not the sales per se... it's that certain individuals have so much coin that they can continue to drive gold prices through the roof even when coin was nearly 900k sustained for close to 2 months... I bet if a rep sale came out tomorrow it'd be right back up there which tells me people have too much coin.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahaha

/10char

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

farm coin lolwut, learn2play open packs 2best luck=10mil, packs are always 33%off or even 50% sometimes, who needs to farm coin ololololol

That just made me lol even more than the OP

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

farm coin lolwut, learn2play open packs 2best luck=10mil, packs are always 33%off or even 50% sometimes, who needs to farm coin ololololol

Chances of a Best Luck = 1.72% per PWDB

That gives you a 50% confidence of getting 2 Best Luck tokens if you buy 116 packs (you might get more than 2 or you might get none). If you're buying them with RL cash to Zen, then you can get 116 packs for 78 gold and 30 silver (in bulk). So let's say you score two Best Lucks and are able to earn 10m at a cost of $78.30 USD and the rest are "just" 4,140 tokens worth 10-11k a pop (cuz market is flooded). I can put a catshop up and sell off those tokens but somebody has to farm coin to buy them otherwise I won't get my 40m added coin over time, cuz other merchants flipping packs are not buying tokens, they sell them... that was my point, not that leet merchants don't need to farm.

Let's say that "poor people" are farming and there's enough of them to buy all my tokens... so I made 10m off the 2 Best Lucks and 43m off the remaining tokens in the unlucky case I didn't get a really nice prize. 53m coin / 78.30 gold is 677 kCoin / gold which is below the current exchange, so yeah merchants (ppl that can leave a comp on 24/7 and have some sense of market economies) make out big time. People know that already. Again the key is that someone still has to farm coin because tokens otherwise have limited use (you can make a few things at the Boutique Agent but again, if it's not what you really need then you have to sell your tokens or whatever you make from them and for others to buy them they have to farm coin).

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again the key is that someone still has to farm coin because tokens otherwise have limited use (you can make a few things at the Boutique Agent but again, if it's not what you really need then you have to sell your tokens or whatever you make from them and for others to buy them they have to farm coin).

no you dont you take THREE steps and turn tokens into coin without ANOTHER PLAYER INVOLVED
(10)Token->(1) wedding wine->trimump coin(worth 99,999 at NPC) HENCE tokens arent less then 10k coin generally

actually you know what, this proves:
a. you dont know how the game works,
b you're wrong, since if players gave tokens value theyd be worth significantly more then "npc" price

see in this formula where NO ONE HAS TO FARM COIN? kthx, and ofc best luck part is a lot more evident WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE SUPER INFLATION STARTED

also ofc the 1.72 and not .72% as Admante pointed out.

get on a more populated server then? you can still get em for 10.1k here, 12k sell price maybe, merchant profit, derp, people i bet are buying for less
you forgot how marching works, also note the big pack sale just ended, so theres always speculation, less pack opening, and slightly higher token prices

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

farm coin lolwut, learn2play open packs 2best luck=10mil, packs are always 33%off or even 50% sometimes, who needs to farm coin ololololol

I am with AnimaBlanc, that made me outright laugh... and cry a little for the kind of community left in PWI b:surrender

Edit: You seem to have missed the boat on this one Mosz. It may come as a surprise to you but there are still players in this game (like me) that make their money without cash shopping or packs. Thus, there is validity to what Thelas_Carr's writes regarding merchants making a profit from those who still farm/quest/grind for their coin. What is more, by pointing out that a player can turn tokens into coin without the involvement of a second party, you are, de facto, adding support to his premise that, "people have too much coin" - that is to say, there is too much coin readily available, particularly by merchants who are buying/selling packs which goes back to support what he is saying about the power merchants have to extend a degree of control over gold prices. Were you intending to support what he originally wrote? lol

Anyways, inflation in PWI is, in my opinion, not so much unlike real life....a complex interaction of numerous factors. Certainly, some causal factors play a more significant role than others but there is no one single factor that can wholly and exclusively explain the constant wax and wane of gold prices. I do however respect people's attempts to offer a reasonable explanation for healthy debate, and in doing so, raise our awareness for the issues at hand. I guess criticism however comes easier than craftsmanship...which is why some people limit themselves to trolling lol

DeadRaven - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am with AnimaBlanc, that made me outright laugh... and cry a little for the kind of community left in PWI b:surrender

Edit: You seem to have missed the boat on this one Mosz. It may come as a surprise to you but there are still players in this game (like me) that make their money without cash shopping or packs. Thus, there is validity to what Thelas_Carr's says about merchant profit being gained by those who still farm/quest/grind for their coin. What is more, by pointing out that a player can turn tokens into coin without the involvement of a second party, you are, de facto, adding support to his premise that, "people have too much coin" - that is to say, there is too much coin readily available, particularly by merchants who are buying/selling pack which goes back to support what he is saying about the power merchants have to extend a degree of control over gold prices. Were you intending to support what he said? lol

Anyways, inflation in PWI is, in my opinion, not so much unlike real life....a complex interaction of numerous factors. Certainly, some causal factors play a more significant role than others but there is no one single factor that can wholly and exclusively explain the constant wax and wane of gold prices. I do however respect people's attempts to offer a reasonable explanation for healthy debate, and in doing so, raise our awareness for the issues at hand. I guess criticism however comes easier than craftsmanship...which is why some people limit themselves to trolling lol

you may have missed the point that ive never cash shopped.(5.0, +12 sin) his point was blaming merchs for gold price, when its 99%+ the GMs/marketing department/PWI staff
he said players( to buy tokens) are required for packs to generate coin, when i proved this is not true.
look hers a list of actual significant factors that have effected gold prices
1. hammer/chest of coins. insta 200k gold. due to PWI staff PURELY 99%(cause come on chest of coins is a joke to get they made sure there is no shortage of supply
2.anni packs.. godl was 200k->400k instantly, why? because the statistical NPCABLE value of packs was 230k+ the stuff thats non tokens
3. putting packs on a 50% sale well..pretty much double gold prices..SURPRISE!
4. putting rep into boutique at 90% off price of it from tokens, hey this over doubled gold price!

yes blame merchs its totally their fault, merchs might crank gold up 10-20% at anytime(hint: exactly when pwi chooses a sale to boost gold charging) or so, PWI has on purpose driven gold up 1000%

another point was its sad how many newgen cash shop noobs you got or lvl 20s that charge 10 gold and win stuff worth 70m+ and dont even know what to do with it, they dotn even know they dont ever need to farm anything or work hard on lvling can afford everything they need till endgame from a few clicks. and pwi encourages it

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you may have missed the point that ive never cash shopped.(5.0, +12 sin) his point was blaming merchs for gold price, when its 99%+ the GMs/marketing department/PWI staff
he said players( to buy tokens) are required for packs to generate coin, when i proved this is not true.
look hers a list of actual significant factors that have effected gold prices
1. hammer/chest of coins. insta 200k gold. due to PWI staff PURELY 99%(cause come on chest of coins is a joke to get they made sure there is no shortage of supply
2.anni packs.. godl was 200k->400k instantly, why? because the statistical NPCABLE value of packs was 230k+ the stuff thats non tokens
3. putting packs on a 50% sale well..pretty much double gold prices..SURPRISE!
4. putting rep into boutique at 90% off price of it from tokens, hey this over doubled gold price!

yes blame merchs its totally their fault, merchs might crank gold up 10-20% at anytime(hint: exactly when pwi chooses a sale to boost gold charging) or so, PWI has on purpose driven gold up 1000%

another point was its sad how many newgen cash shop noobs you got or lvl 20s that charge 10 gold and win stuff worth 70m+ and dont even know what to do with it, they dotn even know they dont ever need to farm anything or work hard on lvling can afford everything they need till endgame from a few clicks. and pwi encourages it

I really wanted to let this go but this resposne was too laughable! Yes, you're absolutely right the hammer/chest of coins sets a floor on gold prices... but saying PWI is 99% responsible for gold price just exhibits a lack of understanding of buying and selling.

Coin buyers must be willing to buy gold at what the sellers offer it for and vice versa... My point, as you seem to have wholly missed it, was that for gold to double (due to rep sales or whatever PWE puts in the Boutique) is because there are players "with coins" that really want that gold enough to double its price... Read this part clearly because you missed it entirely in your interpretation of my point: those players with coins driving up gold are merchants... average players don't have the coin to drive the gold market, any more than individual investors in the stock market compared to titantic mutual fund companies. Get it yet? b:chuckle

Edit: For Paramedic, becuase the above is probably still too much text for him... Merchants drive the gold exchange rate in reaction to what PWE puts in the Boutique; the non-merchants simply get buffeted by the waves that the merchants create.

this was discussed so many times...
it is not funny anymore...b:angry

removing best luck to coin trade and everything else that injects money from "outside"
still high goldprice? someone screws ingame economy...

why do people still complain about tw pay...free tele & ability to craft special pots for doing nothing anyone?
no tw pay - nobody wants to do tw
tw pay - nobody can win against the dominating factions

/2cents

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you may have missed the point that ive never cash shopped.(5.0, +12 sin) his point was blaming merchs for gold price, when its 99%+ the GMs/marketing department/PWI staff
he said players( to buy tokens) are required for packs to generate coin, when i proved this is not true.
look hers a list of actual significant factors that have effected gold prices
1. hammer/chest of coins. insta 200k gold. due to PWI staff PURELY 99%(cause come on chest of coins is a joke to get they made sure there is no shortage of supply
2.anni packs.. godl was 200k->400k instantly, why? because the statistical NPCABLE value of packs was 230k+ the stuff thats non tokens
3. putting packs on a 50% sale well..pretty much double gold prices..SURPRISE!
4. putting rep into boutique at 90% off price of it from tokens, hey this over doubled gold price!

yes blame merchs its totally their fault, merchs might crank gold up 10-20% at anytime(hint: exactly when pwi chooses a sale to boost gold charging) or so, PWI has on purpose driven gold up 1000%

another point was its sad how many newgen cash shop noobs you got or lvl 20s that charge 10 gold and win stuff worth 70m+ and dont even know what to do with it, they dotn even know they dont ever need to farm anything or work hard on lvling can afford everything they need till endgame from a few clicks. and pwi encourages it

I laughed because alot of "long term" players feel they have the right to be smug about the fact they -know- how to play. Granted ( and downright simple ) You do but in mechanics.
IF you would disregard any of your past tense expierences and would start this game with nada, zilch nothing "opening a pack" isn't as simple as you make it out to be.
( and that is me saying that from a non Cash shoppers point of view. i -have- cashopped, dont get me wrong. i am merely trying to look at it from a different point of view )
-(AND leaving out the players that come into this game and find no problem in spending the real life money )

You say opening a pack is easy money and it only takes THREE steps ? I seriously beg to differ. How on earth do you GET the tokens in the first place ? either by gold or getting the packs off a merchant.

1 pack = 500 - 540K ( because gold in AH is STILL 700K+ )

Taking the 500K as a base value for the sake of argument.

AND asuming that pack gives you nothing but tokens = 15 Tokens.

According to your theory then:

10 tokens = 99, 999 Coin.
Which leaves you with 5 tokens taking up space IF you are solemnly out to make coin.

2 Packs = then 1 000 000 Coin.

5 + 15 = 30
30 / 10 = 3
3 x 99,999 = 299,997 Coin.

299,997 + 99,999 = 399, 996 Coin in total

1,000,000 - 399, 996 = 600, 004 coin LOSS

Assuming then you bought the GOLD to get the packs all you have to do is add the coin balance difference to it.
which being

700,000 - 500,000 = 200,000 coin
2 x 200 = 400,000 coin

600,004 + 400, 000 = 1,000, 004 coin SPENT on TRYING to get money <.<.

You say it's PWI's fault for driving up the prices, yes it is, but with that statement you just supported PWI's marketing choices.
Hence... why i lol'd.

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary wrote: »

Merchants drive the gold exchange rate in reaction to what PWE puts in the Boutique; the non-merchants simply get buffeted by the waves that the merchants create.

even you have the wrong end of the stick here.

Merchants are often enough people PROVIDING for the non cashshoppers in the game.
Non cashshoppers USED to have the coin to buy these items through merchants

If something is wanted, the price goes up. Offer & demand my friend, offer & demand.

Fact of the matter is because of the huge pack sale and the flood of items EVERYONE worked hard for was suddenly attainable within the blink of an eye coin suddenly dropped to being nothing more than a formality and exchange rate.

IF you had the means to get a big uncome of coin, wouldn't you exploit that ? I would. anyone would.
Sure, there's that one person exception that puts stuff in AH at the given price on the item but what happens then ?
People see it, buy it and sell it for a big profit.
the people buying and selling for profit outweight the other people by far.

The sudden uprise of Nirv. R8/R9, Frost/cube/warsong gear wearing toons suddenly began to grow and IF you wanted to stay within the range of being a Mediocre player and thus keeping the option open to be getting into squads on a regular basis ( without having to beg, plead or set up a set friend base to take into instances )
You needed to be up to par. More packs opened, more items gained, more coins spent.
More Inflation.

and see how the scale is tipped ?

It is not solemnly merchant's fault.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Both Mosz blaming PWI/GM's/other **** and whoever said merchants are to blame are wrong.

It's obvious PWI wants to make money. It's obvious merchants want to make a profit. Where you guys are going wrong is you want to blame somebody. Everyone is doing the job they would do regardless of the gold value of the AH. I know there's going to be some rose colored glasses, cloud-nine folks who want to presume what the price of gold should be, but the only thing that's ever been consistent is gold prices are what they should be. The value of it is, and should be, what gold buyers would be willing to pay per 1 gold. Just because Person A-Z thinks it's too high or too low doesn't mean it's wrong. I personally wish I could buy yet another top of the line laptop for $100 or less but it's the people who both sell and buy laptops who set the price. Same thing with gold. Prices change, things change. Either move along with it or keep QQing on the forums about something that won't ever change.

And yes, PWI wants higher gold prices. Despite frankie's post quoted earlier, the removal of the 1m gold ceiling was more action than words could ever say. Hopefully they don't continue the charade.

^-- Yes agreed, though may i add 1 thing;

The market was always stable, for over 3 years UNTILL a certain point.

Funny 2 see that point came with "Fixes" and new Btq items. justsaying

kthnxbai

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And yes, PWI wants higher gold prices. Despite frankie's post quoted earlier, the removal of the 1m gold ceiling was more action than words could ever say. Hopefully they don't continue the charade.

Kitty thanks for that, selling gold for 1.2M, it got certain glory in it, doesnt it?