Free whine
aurinsghost
Posts: 22 Arc User
OK, I've had just about enough of this "free wine" (but not really free) ****. Many players offer free wine on BH runs, I myself have offered free wine on many an occasion (admittedly just to get a full squad sometimes), but I am doing so out of the goodness of my nature, as I truly wish to help out as many ppl as I can during my tenure at PWI. I don't assume I have a claim to anything that drops, ESPECIALLY when I offer free wine. So why is it there this expectation that drops automatically belong to someone if they pay for the wine? It's not really free if you harbor an expectation of possible multi-million $ drops landing in your pockets is it?
I will readily agree to surrender my drops if a player clearly states at the start of a BH "If I'm gonna pay for the wine, do you mind if I get the drops?" no problem, glad to give em, but don't assume you have a right to them cause you provided said wines. Today, I practically received death threats for not surrendering the 1st and only skill book drop I've ever had (in almost 2 years of playing) after "FREE" wine was offered at the start, though I was more than willing to pay a split. After the BH, I had squaddies whining to me for refusing to surrender it, said that I was stealing and tarnishing the rep of my faction. Some finally resorted to uttering profanities in my direction (I eventually had to blacklist some), and they hadn't even provided the wine!
So here it is folks, don't call it "free wine" if you have the expectation of getting any decent items should they drop and make it clear BEFORE you give the blind dude his libation if you do indeed want any drops.
And FYI... I'm a full time parent, my play time is limited and I'm not a cash player, I work hard for my coin to buy my gears, so from now on I will never again accept "free wine", you'll either take my split $ or find another to fill my spot cause if a drop finds its way into my pockets it belongs to me.
P.S. In the end, after some consideration, I did mail the book to the wine provider in the interest of karma and goodwill, as that's in my nature more than anything else. Incidentally, HE wasn't one of the whiners, go figure
P.S. obviously this doesn't apply to FB's ...the tab holder should ALWAYS get his drops!
Nuff said'
I will readily agree to surrender my drops if a player clearly states at the start of a BH "If I'm gonna pay for the wine, do you mind if I get the drops?" no problem, glad to give em, but don't assume you have a right to them cause you provided said wines. Today, I practically received death threats for not surrendering the 1st and only skill book drop I've ever had (in almost 2 years of playing) after "FREE" wine was offered at the start, though I was more than willing to pay a split. After the BH, I had squaddies whining to me for refusing to surrender it, said that I was stealing and tarnishing the rep of my faction. Some finally resorted to uttering profanities in my direction (I eventually had to blacklist some), and they hadn't even provided the wine!
So here it is folks, don't call it "free wine" if you have the expectation of getting any decent items should they drop and make it clear BEFORE you give the blind dude his libation if you do indeed want any drops.
And FYI... I'm a full time parent, my play time is limited and I'm not a cash player, I work hard for my coin to buy my gears, so from now on I will never again accept "free wine", you'll either take my split $ or find another to fill my spot cause if a drop finds its way into my pockets it belongs to me.
P.S. In the end, after some consideration, I did mail the book to the wine provider in the interest of karma and goodwill, as that's in my nature more than anything else. Incidentally, HE wasn't one of the whiners, go figure
P.S. obviously this doesn't apply to FB's ...the tab holder should ALWAYS get his drops!
Nuff said'
Post edited by aurinsghost on
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Comments
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Whine =/= wine. ijs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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it is common, that guy who provide wine gets drops on bh.
it is rather unexpected, that someone wont want it..
you just stole drops and now wrote tl;dr post to justify yourself.
and you have my applause for that
edit:
i just read p.s. - you ruined it =/BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »Whine =/= wine. ijs.
Indeed.
Whining has always been free, especially on these forums.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »Whine =/= wine. ijs.
Pro reply here.
On topic, you are right, if they advertise a free wine, they forfeit any right to the drops, other than being a random pick up. However, you shouldn't have sent the book to him/her. After a person first insults you in any way, just give them a warning that if they continue to speak to you, you will report them. If they keep going, screenshot, blacklist, and send a ticket.0 -
aurinsghost wrote: »OK, I've had just about enough of this "free wine" (but not really free) ****. Many players offer free wine on BH runs, I myself have offered free wine on many an occasion (admittedly just to get a full squad sometimes), but I am doing so out of the goodness of my nature, as I truly wish to help out as many ppl as I can during my tenure at PWI. I don't assume I have a claim to anything that drops, ESPECIALLY when I offer free wine. So why is it there this expectation that drops automatically belong to someone if they pay for the wine? It's not really free if you harbor an expectation of possible multi-million $ drops landing in your pockets is it?
I will readily agree to surrender my drops if a player clearly states at the start of a BH "If I'm gonna pay for the wine, do you mind if I get the drops?" no problem, glad to give em, but don't assume you have a right to them cause you provided said wines. Today, I practically received death threats for not surrendering the 1st and only skill book drop I've ever had (in almost 2 years of playing) after "FREE" wine was offered at the start, though I was more than willing to pay a split. After the BH, I had squaddies whining to me for refusing to surrender it, said that I was stealing and tarnishing the rep of my faction. Some finally resorted to uttering profanities in my direction (I eventually had to blacklist some), and they hadn't even provided the wine!
So here it is folks, don't call it "free wine" if you have the expectation of getting any decent items should they drop and make it clear BEFORE you give the blind dude his libation if you do indeed want any drops.
And FYI... I'm a full time parent, my play time is limited and I'm not a cash player, I work hard for my coin to buy my gears, so from now on I will never again accept "free wine", you'll either take my split $ or find another to fill my spot cause if a drop finds its way into my pockets it belongs to me.
P.S. In the end, I did mail the book to the wine provider in the interest of karma and goodwill, as that's in my nature more than anything else.
P.S. obviously this doesn't apply to FB's ...the tab holder should ALWAYS get his drops!
Nuff said'
I never ever thought I would result to saying this on the forums but, hear it comes.....Cool Story Brob:bye.0 -
in my books, I dont need to be told the mats should be given to the one paying the wine.
It makes total sense to me. Besides, most molds or good drops are worth nothing these days.
Not only you look cheap for joining a free wine, you look desperate for not surrending the drops without asking. b:chuckle
I even go further, I dont even tele to take another bh quest, unless somebody else tele too.0 -
It's just a curteous thing to do to offer the good drops to the person who paid your way.0
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Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »in my books, I dont need to be told the mats should be given to the one paying the wine.
It makes total sense to me. Besides, most molds or good drops are worth nothing these days.
Not only you look cheap for joining a free wine, you look desperate for not surrending the drops without asking. b:chuckle
I even go further, I dont even tele to take another bh quest, unless somebody else tele too.
I didn't join because the wine was free, and didn't even know the wine WAS free till we were all in the instance and it was announced. I joined because I wanted to complete a BH and fully expected to pay my share, I don't freeload.0 -
Belgare - Sanctuary wrote: »It's just a curteous thing to do to offer the good drops to the person who paid your way.
Is it courteous of him to offer to pay one's share at, what, 40k, for a guaranteed chance to get (if it drops) something that's worth up to 4 mil?
He pays 200-300k depending on server for a whole squad. He makes quite a bit of profit.0 -
AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote: »Pro reply here.
On topic, you are right, if they advertise a free wine, they forfeit any right to the drops, other than being a random pick up. However, you shouldn't have sent the book to him/her. After a person first insults you in any way, just give them a warning that if they continue to speak to you, you will report them. If they keep going, screenshot, blacklist, and send a ticket.
I'll try to make my reply as short as possible.
It is now always possible to state everything you want in a world chat when you advertise for squad members.
For example:
"LFM for bh 59, all bosses, wined (free)" will undoubtedly fit, whereas...
"Lf a barb, cleric, +1 for bh59 free wine, Molds go to me" That would be difficult to fit all in one line of a world chat.
........
I can fully understand being upset over having to fork it over, if they didn't state they would like the mold/books/3 stars/all items when they first invited you/everyone into the squad.
I have wined a few full bh59 runs, and I have not always been able to speak exactly what is expected of the people I 'let' join, but I do make sure they understand it long before the first boss is even seen on our screen.
Remember that golden rule of the internet? "You don't know who is on the other side of a conversation"
Well in my opinion the same could be said with the drops from bosses. (some people get real emo... if they don't get something they feel they should get, and now if it's 'rightfully' their's... I guess it depends on who you ask... but imho... if they from the squad, pay for the wines, then sure whatever they want is fine with me.)
I don't ever like taking all the drops from my wined bh, but if a mold drops I would definitely like it to go to me, so I can re-wine later if I wish. I am not a cash shopper, and like you I don't have infinite free time to spend on the game to replace every bit of cash I dish out daily for various things, wines included.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
You could just fit "my wine, my drops" in your WC. Not too long and makes the rules clear.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
There's a guy on HT that spams WC with free wine for specific bh89s. After he gets people in the instance, he then wants all bosses done with books, molds, 3* to him! I'm surprised people are stupid enough to think that they're saving time helping this pos that makes up rules as they go along. He's basically getting free help to farm the instance. This **** even harassed me for leaving after the BH boss when I made no prior agreement to him. He waits a while and runs the BH repeatedly all day this way. If he were up front; it wouldn't be such an issue. I'd just say: cya. Imo, if these dumbutts waste a tele and not specify their intentions: they deserve abandonment. Propositions in their favor after you're invested should be ignored.Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »You could just fit "my wine, my drops" in your WC. Not too long and makes the rules clear.
no; it's lazy and ambiguous. Don't be lazy: specify 3*, mold, books, w/e.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
In my book, it goes like this:
"free wine" == "no fee" == "all 3star/molds/books go to the one using wine for the instance, everything else is random unless specifically stated otherwise"
I have no problems with the apocalypse pages going to tabber either. For "free wine" BH I would assume the pages would not be random unless instruction is given to the contrary.
If you want a shot at high priced drops during BH or whathaveyou so badly then you yourself need to supply the wine and make your demands known. This is how I have always seen things done since I started playing this game. IMHO it's just polite to let the one giving the wine the drops. If you have a problem with that, then do not participate in the instance o.o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
no; it's lazy and ambiguous. Don't be lazy: specify 3*, mold, books, w/e.
It's not about being lazy, it's about having to fit everything in one tele. Usually people know that "my drops" refers to the stuff you mentioned. Well anyway, I usually either take share or wine completely free for my faction (with random drops)."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
Qingzi - Harshlands wrote: »Is it courteous of him to offer to pay one's share at, what, 40k, for a guaranteed chance to get (if it drops) something that's worth up to 4 mil?
He pays 200-300k depending on server for a whole squad. He makes quite a bit of profit.
last time i checked, u dont get a 4mil drop in every run b:avoid0 -
free wine= you don't have to pay for it
not allowing you to split the cost= drops iz myne nub
you let someone spend 300-400k of their own coin, and don't even think to offer the drop to them= inconsiderate
and it doesnt matter that you apparently wine some runs yourself and dont ask for drops, because the guy (and the squadmates that -whined-) would have absolutely no way of knowing your history on such things.
It just simply appeared that you got lucky in the way the drop went, and proceeded to steal it.0 -
They incur the cost of wining (~205-220K via tokens for both wines combined) with only a small percentage of a mold dropping, especially during non-2x periods. If you want to think of it another way, how about someone pays 35K for a 6 way split and drops can randomly go to them, giving them a chance at a multi-million profit for something other people pay for as well, including a significantly less cost to obtain? It really isn't that selfish to wine for drops when most of the time they don't get squat and incur the cost of wines for everyone else. It isn't deceptive to say "free" in the wine part because it's free.. you don't pay any wine cost. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »So why is it there this expectation that drops automatically belong to someone if they pay for the wine? It's not really free if you harbor an expectation of possible multi-million $ drops landing in your pockets is it?
Now, tweakz's example, I would not go along with that. If someone said doing BH89 Phlebo and inside demanded we do Thousand Year Spirit and Ninetails, or squad entered on an advertised BH Ethereal Abomination.. and demanded while inside (and not included on their advertisement) we do Fats and Demonic Vexation, I'd leave. Sorry, this is a BH, for a specific Bounty Hunter quest, not an FB without tabs.0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »It isn't deceptive to say "free" in the wine part because it's free.. you don't pay any wine cost. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I now claim all gold/orange mats from your TT runs, its free for you, nothing ventured, nothing gained.0 -
uh uh check your quotes Janus, I never said that, OP said it0
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Firstly, what you get to claim is that I wouldn't do any TT runs with you to begin with.Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »I now claim all gold/orange mats from your TT runs, its free for you, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Secondly, unfortunately it's very common in a BH TT for the subber to claim gold mats from DC and even from before with TE, as much as I don't like it. Same analogy applies -- subber incurs cost, others incur nothing. However, since subs are significantly cheaper, I would personally do sell-splits with a BH TT. If you mean a TT run just by itself, then that's just stupid altogether and I've never once heard of or seen someone suggest that if they sub they get all the mats from a full run.0 -
x3 i was the Q.Q baby he mentions here
The whole reason i Q.Qed the way i did was because it was his own Faction member. Not some random wc squad like you all think, he fails to mention this doesn't he ;D
Mostly i admit you were the straw that broke the camels back regarding your faction being flat out *** hats. Like i said in Pms every week your faction does something to ruin its rep and warrant the attacks to it.0 -
If BK is serious and not just trolling, then that's some funny **** right thur...0
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In my experience playing. A person who wines for free usually gets the drops. I mean really, there are not as many wc for help with fb these days compared to before bh came around.
Yes in an fb, giving the drops to the tabber is like some unwritten rule. You don't have to, but you do it because you don't want to look like a jerk. Giving people drops that wined the run is whats more common these days. Not all people do this, but some other people do cuz the drops are not worth it anymore, they just want the darn boss dead or they want to avoid drama.
Next time before you join a squad, ask before the run on whatever the WHOLE squad is okay with. It'll save you quite a lot of time with harassment. Just common sense to do so. When is free really free these days, aside from free samples at supermarkets or food stalls? O_O0 -
I think that people could argue that they do have to pay a fee for helping run a TT, FB, Delta, etc.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Firstly, what you get to claim is that I wouldn't do any TT runs with you to begin with.
Secondly, unfortunately it's very common in a BH TT for the subber to claim gold mats from DC and even from before with TE, as much as I don't like it. Same analogy applies -- subber incurs cost, others incur nothing. However, since subs are significantly cheaper, I would personally do sell-splits with a BH TT. If you mean a TT run just by itself, then that's just stupid altogether and I've never once heard of or seen someone suggest that if they sub they get all the mats from a full run.
I think it stems from that old rule, (which I do not like, and even suggested an alternative method) and that is... that "barb's" have the highest fee since they had to tank. It was fed to us in every TT we ran that was split at the end, and the pick order was barb first, cleric 2nd, then dd by level. We all have repair fees from helping to make the tt run go smoother/faster... including bms, which were often the people who got last pick, no matter how much they helped out in the squad compared to other dd's, and their damage output/cost to running it.
Though we are indeed not discussing this on this topic, or at least shouldn't... =x.
.....
As I tried stating earlier, it is not always possible to say exactly what you want/mean in every world chat when you have to add on extra words, this game is pretty limited to what it allows us to say in one sentence.
Though my examples were bad, it's been quite some time since I wined any bh myself, and actually offered free wine, my mold. Although whoever it was that said 'my wine, my drops' is indeed right you can shorten most sentences if you think about it long enough, have a large enough vocabulary, and still get a clear message out in world chat.
....
I know another... TL; DR post by me... slivaf =xAh, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »I know another... TL; DR post by me... slivaf =x
Even your siggy is too long b:cuteb:shutup0 -
This instance merely brought to light again all the previous times I've seen discrepancies surrounding drop spoils, up until now none of which, luckily, I was directly involved in. I guess, never having had the luck of a rare drop was a blessing of sorts, so this was the straw for me, just a different camel B_K.
And yes, B_K, it was a member, but that's irrelevant since that fact wasn't know to me until after all whining and complaining went on (and to whom I apologized when I found out) so far as I knew, 3 different factions were represented and he wasn't in mine. Truth be known, he was playing on an alt not actually in the faction and one not recognizable to me before today, he was also the most understanding and the one who DIDN'T make a fuss. Why others felt like piping up I can only attribute to theirs and your desire to maintain this status quo/expectation.
As others have mentioned, how many ppl do you think would join a squad if one were to WC "seat squad forming...my wine=my drops...pm for inv"? Definitely not as many as you'd get shouting "seat squad forming, free wine!" No, instead, societally, we create these un-written rules in order to take things for granted, that we'll get the drops so as not to appear greedy. After all, its much easier to appear magnanimous and not have greediness implied by camouflaging our desire in seeming generosity by providing 'free wine' n'est pas?
I'm definitely not saying that everyone who provides free wine is doing so solely so they may benefit, by assuring that drops come their way, I'm saying its wrong to to provide wine under that assumption and call it free, cause if you want something in return, implied or not, it's not free any more is it?
Its the principle I object to, speak plainly and there will be no misunderstandings, don't make assumptions, cause as we all know they are the mother of all f-ups. Just make it clear before the run starts and make sure its agreed upon.
Ideally, the only thing that should be expected by the wine provider, period, is that the recipients return the favor to others some day. But I guess we're not ready for that as a society yet are we? More's the pity.0 -
aurinsghost wrote: »Ideally, the only thing that should be expected by the wine provider, period, is that the recipients return the favor to others some day. But I guess we're not ready for that as a society yet are we? More's the pity.
You first.0 -
aurinsghost wrote: »
And yes, B_K, it was a member, but that's irrelevant since that fact wasn't know to me until after all whining and complaining went on (and to whom I apologized when I found out) so far as I knew, 3 different factions were represented and he wasn't in mine. Truth be known, he was playing on an alt not actually in the faction and one not recognizable to me before today, he was also the most understanding and the one who DIDN'T make a fuss. Why others felt like piping up I can only attribute to theirs and your desire to maintain this status quo/expectation.
You make me lol so hard, Ok so tell me how did u get invited to the squad? lets see a member of your faction called for the bh, and when u got in the squad he was on alt, yes but with the name being almost IDENTICAL. When the original person that called for the bh wasnt in the squad but someone with a name that differed by the last few characters was, how can you NOT understand it was the same person, not to mention that 3 others in the squad were all from your faction lol. Me Myself and I was the ONLY person not in your faction on that run. and apparently i was not the only one to complain about your rudeness though.
When ur gunna Q.Q baby doll at least tell the whole story, as my mother said anything less is a lie ;D
Oh btw fix ur core so ppl from our server don't know who your shaming.0 -
B_K - Sanctuary wrote: »You make me lol so hard, Ok so tell me how did u get invited to the squad? lets see a member of your faction called for the bh, and when u got in the squad he was on alt, yes but with the name being almost IDENTICAL. When the original person that called for the bh wasnt in the squad but someone with a name that differed by the last few characters was, how can you NOT understand it was the same person, not to mention that 3 others in the squad were all from your faction lol. Me Myself and I was the ONLY person not in your faction on that run. and apparently i was not the only one to complain about your rudeness though.
When ur gunna Q.Q baby doll at least tell the whole story, as my mother said anything less is a lie ;D
Oh btw fix ur core so ppl from our server don't know who your shaming.
In his (or) her defense, he did give the item in question back to the person. Also in his (or) her defense I have seen a lot of people with very similar names, and yet be two very different people.
One example that I can think off of the top of my head is this:
Ajey ~ A level 100 (last I seen) archer (if I remember right) of calamity (at the time)
Ajay ~ A level 101 (last I seen) Blademaster : Member of Equinox (last I saw)
(That's not even close to mentioning how many people have a name from a "famous/infamous" hero/heroine of theirs)
.....
It isn't far fetched to think that just because the name is similar that the person you call up in your memory, is the same person with the look alike name, even random names sometimes have fans/look alikes that are created for the sole purpose of causing drama in 'their' name.
That defense aside, he (or) she doesn't seem to be in a very good mood at the moment over the whole ordeal.
It would be nice if people could/would make themselves 100% clear in world chat, it just isn't always possible, and not very likely that people will start doing it.Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
First of all, there are more than one person in my faction (Equinox b:victory) who will provide wines and split drops randomly; some do books to class, but w/e. If someone WCs for free wine, before joining squad I would ask how drops are split.
From what I can tell, OP joined a squad with free wines, random drops (feel free to correct)/comment). If that's the case, keeping all drops is justified; offering to split profit from the book drop is generous, to say the least.
That being said, if, and only if the winer explained that drops would be shared, is OP under any obligation to pay anything to anyone.
Discuss b:bye
Edit: Anyhoo, in every bh squad I've been in, I have always asked what wine fee is before going to the relevant instance. The squad lead, or the winer/relevant person, has always said, in no uncertain terms: this is the fee that everyone will pay, and this is how drops will be split.
If that person says, simply, "wine is free," I will definitely inquire as to how drops are split. It takes two people to make two wrong assumptions, ijs0
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