Shortage

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Comments

  • Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver
    Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I think a mystie+psycho duo's may be able to subside for one cleric in squad heal-wise, although it'll still lack ceric's buffs.
    I'm not sure about seekers yet, but they seem kind of simmilar to BMs. I doubt they'll make better tanks than barbs, unless they'll be able to get some insane dps and afford high def and hp at the same time.
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  • Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver
    Abocanhadora - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I dont really like to post a lot on this forums but I guess I can give it a try...

    There is definately a much bigger shortage of barbarians than anything else. I am a guy that really likes to do deltas and help on them, not only small waves for bh's but even full runs. In there I constantly see a incredible lack of barbarians. Some think delta is too expensive for them, which I kind of agree, others just dont know how to do it or are afraid of doing it, others simply never bother to read anything to learn or tried to do lower rebirth's like gamma... There is a lot of reasons...

    Every single time a delta squad fails, its always the barbarian class that will suffer more cash problems, counting the repairs, charm waste, the apothecary items that were used... And really, If I was a barbarian class myself, I would also understand this and would probably only help friends with that stuff.

    Barbarians like Declan, Icewolf, xXxTankarxXx, are some of the ones that are willing to help people like this little stupiD venomancer here with delta runs. The little thing I can do is giving them all the old books pages I got in the deltas, give them vacuity powders to help with stunning waves and treat them with the respect they deserve.

    In the other things like nirvana, FC or TT, I guess we all already know the answer: players with 5 aps have outshined the barbarian class, especially bm's. There is no denying that 5 APS have change the gameplay of the pwi community.

    Strangely, barbarians will always have a place in a TW and the fact that any good TW faction needing strong barbarians players makes it even more visible the lack of barbs.

    What can be done, whats needed to be done? Well... I guess the example will have to start from the strongest factions. We have to understand that a barb is a class that needs respect, that its becaming rare and the good barbarians, the good players and good persons playing a barbarian should be rewarded and treated with a big deal of respect. We all need to stop looking at the barbarian total life and put a "godly" "medium" "bad" mark and start looking behind that.
  • Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    @Abocanhabora: I can't agree with you more on everything you have just said. There is a rumor now that since in the Chinese servers are going to be lowering the aps cap to 3.33, and that now people (some) believe that it will be done to ours. If this is true, barbs will reclaim their position as the "Must" class to have in every squad. Of course sins, archers, and bm's will lose the title of superior DD's as they currently are and that could also lose the position of substitute tanks without a barbs help thanks to blood paint. Not to long ago, a sin named BigKnockers and myself had soloed Cannon Fist without a cleric thanks to Blood Paint and my sage spark. Not once did I need to use crab meat, pots, or my genie skill. b:surrender I am willing to have barbs and clerics in my squad anytime still b:thanks
  • LonelySpaced - Dreamweaver
    LonelySpaced - Dreamweaver Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    MM barbs are harder to find. But finding a RB Gamma squad is evan harder. I think I managed to find 3 (all were mostly frends) when in the lvl range on this Archer, pity as I enjoy Gamma.

    I get turned down for Delta as I am not 100 (Bad Side Effect of Hypers). I could use some old book pages to get skills.

    Capping to a max 3.33 would be nice so I can restat that 30str and go pure, bit I dont want to be here for the QQing

    @Getter_Robo I compleatly agree Gear and Skills above hyperd lvling. If you dont have it, Dont hyper and go farm for them.
    Oddly on topic of Disrespect to Clerics, I comented (just said he realy needs to work on his armors) to a 90+ cleric that had lvl 70 and 77mold armor that he needs to work on that and was shot down by the rest of the FC team, apparently TT90 armor is too expensive and he was going to short cut to TT99 once he hit 100 . . .

    b:surrender Saw a lvl 90+ sin QQing at a lvl 85 barb for not holding aggro when he went afk on a spark macro, you will all ways get disrespect when some one else fails
    b:surrender Sorry if this offends you.
    b:chuckle I am just bored and Trolling the forms
  • Raequel - Dreamweaver
    Raequel - Dreamweaver Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    On my cleric, my only friends were usually only talking to me when they wanted something b:surrender I felt so used.

    So I swapped to play my veno more often, and oh the peaceful joy I found in solitude... until I got my herc.

    ._. now it's like being a cleric AND the tank for a bunch of people...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Daniiella (101 Sage Sin) / Else (100 Demon Archer)
    Tiae (bm) / Athanasyos (barb) / Zeylene (wiz) / Eleysha (mystic)
  • AshliWings - Heavens Tear
    AshliWings - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Nice...because of the abuse, we are now short on Clerics and Barbs. See, this is what happens when people take the game too serious and yell at someone when they are trying to have fun. It's a game, remember that.

    A few barbs i know converted to sins or bms not because they like DD'ing more but to get away from being called a fail. If the person is having trouble being a barb, help them in giving advice. Yelling only hurts them and will back-fire when you need that barb later on to tank. Nice job. Remember, they get the biggest repair bill out of any class not to mention they go through a lot of potions/crab meat/tic's in their charm.

    Seems like almost every minute now i am seeing in World Chat, people are crying out for a cleric. Guess what, same thing. If you die, don't yell at the cleric. They have it so much harder then other class when it comes to leveling up in this game. If they die, they have to town it back and lose exp to come back to rez us. Also, they are trying to keep a entire squad alive. That takes a lot of talent and concentration to do. But my biggest issue is hearing that some only talk to the clerics when they need something from them and pretend to be their friends. How messed up is that!? These are people, not npc's. Treat them like a tool and find yourself missing a cleric later on along with that rez.

    l:< Barbs and Clerics are people too!!!....(who play them)b:surrender

    very well stated ty :)
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Barbs aren't really in short supply. If you look around any major city you'll find us everywhere.

    Most of us, however, have just stopped going into random squads or stopped running certain instances altogether.

    I'd rather just do multiple runs in TT single mode by myself than hook up with a random squad who may spend half the time afk. The fail rate in Warsong BH is roughly 50%, so I tend to stay out of those as much as possible, unless a friend drags me along. Same with 3-3 BH. Delta? I'm sick of the bug reports that comes from blinking too fast in there...and I don't have the patience to sit in front of my comp for 3 hours straight anymore while the DDs get to afk through it. <.<

    Everything else, however, is mostly 5 aps only (even non aps classes reject tank built barbs for things like Nirvana half the time).

    So, there's your answer to the barb problem. Our usefulness has dwindled for half the things we like to do, or we just flat out refuse to help others who most likely have no intention of helping us. Which is why this toon is retired.
    Some people risk to employ me

    Some people live to destroy me

    Either way they die
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    A point on giving advice to other players...

    As a DD ive always been shot down by clerics and barbs for suggesting alternative ways, which have worked in other squads, of doing things when the standard stuff doesnt work. Its very very rare that I find a person who is willing to listen and take into consideration the suggestion and then come to a conclusion of whether it can be done or not.

    I am not sure about the shortage of barbs and clerics but more on the lines of finding competent barbs and clerics is kinda difficult these days. You could probably blame hypers, BH squads aided by 9x and 10x people, etc for this. I am guilty as well in aiding in BH/FB runs for lower levels where the barb ends up DDing instead of tanking (since i can easily tank those).

    Despite all this. I have never blamed a cleric, barb or anyone for that matter when we fail at something (except maybe a delta...cos the barb was whining that I am doing too much damage for him to hold aggro <.< and wouldnt listen to suggestions. Really couldnt hold back my mouth when ive lower lvl barbs do much much better with my damage)

    In the end, I do agree that everyone needs a certain amount of respect as being fellow players and name-calling shouldnt be there whatsoever since its just a game and everyone have different ways of playing it.

    While I Do agree that we need to respect our furry tanks and feathery medics, the people who also do the primary damage should also get an equal amount of respect. Many a times Ive seen DDs being treated as dirt in TTs (unless you do with faction or friends) or for that matter on BHs, etc.
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    well, I have some good barb friends and I can't complain much about clerics.
    But yeah, interval made barbs pretty much obsolete in a lot of cases.

    BH Warsong has a 50% failure as Xarathox said, and that's just because of the **** geared FC hypered nubs hitting 100 with lvl 80 unsharded and unrefined gear. I remember 1 yr ago Warsong BH was one of the easy ones. The hard part was the waiting.
    In a 3-3 BH a few days back someone asked to kill 30 mobs, cause it seems the boss will be easier after. The reluctance of a few squad members to kill 2 other mobs (we were at 28 kills) was to me an incredible proof of stupidity. While we were pulling a mob a sin pulled the boss. He died ofc. If I would have been the cleric I wouldn't have rezzed him. Let the idiot run the whole TT back.
    Another bad BM and Barb moment was in Delta wave 2 when without a weapon the Barb and BM could not keep aggro off me. I mean...really?wtf...

    So yeah, there are a few barbs I gladly run with and I come to trust them when something needs to be done. But they are a rare sight and almost always busy doing something.

    To end my post, the population of barbs hasn't dwindled as much as it dwindled the number of barbs played with skill, that's why we get the impression of actually having less barbs available when we need them.
    ____________
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  • Samnang - Dreamweaver
    Samnang - Dreamweaver Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I don't post often on forums, i usually use them for the sheer amount of useful information they contain. However i had to post in this one.

    I have both a 96 cleric and a 100 barb. As a cleric 99% of my FL only said a word to me when they needed help and if i asked for it usually i was turned down. Along with all the high aps people who pull aggro and die in about 2 hits (usually not even time enough for IH to channel) and then i get screamed at. When i ask people to lower their APS so only 1 person tanks (usually the barb) i get no end of abuse or just a flat no. It was enough to stop me using her and now she is only brought out to help my faction and my good friends.

    As for being a barb, i must have been around lvl 40 on it when someone said to me. Why are you lvling a barb, end game they are totally useless. Make a sin. At the time i thought don't be stupid, tanks are always needed. But now i am at end game on it i see how right that person is and what most of the people here have been saying.

    Barbs aggro skills when trying to keep aggro from one (or several) high aps chars is like trying to squeeze a lemon through a needle. You can get a bit in but no chance once you got past the start. The only thing barbs seem to be needed for is hp and str buff, thats it. So i made a sin, and i enjoy it but i am a tank at heart. And since you only need barbs for maybe TW and a few bosses (since high dps with BP can tank everything else) whats the point. You spend hours of grinding (barbs suck at damage so questing takes forever) and you make it to fc you perfect it (and barbs get FC fast and often since they are so needed) and you finally make it to 100 and.... nothing. There is nothing left for you unless you restat to aps. There are only a few factions who can have any kind of TW that lasts more then a few seconds and a delta run for BH doesn't take long at all. And as for nirvana you can almost forget it for a pure tank barb who isn't briming with cash. I have only been able to get on 1 run in maybe 2 months and thats bc a friend (who is high aps) took pitty on me and took me in last week. There was no chance of me making my own since i had never been inside before.

    So whats left. Barbs get bored, they either quit game or make a new char.

    Its not so much about respect (for barbs anyway) its about spending all that time and then at the end being ALMOST totally useless. If you want more barbs, they need to make them useful again.
  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Well I have something interesting to add, lol. I am of the 'started-as-a-barb-and-made-a-sin' fraction, so I know exactly what this is like, lol. Everybody is partly right. The shortage of barbs (and make no mistake, there are definitely fewer of them as a percentile) is due partly to a reduced usefulness in popular instances, and the difficulty in procurring money if you are not a dps build, and partly to the perceived lack of barbs (but which is actually a lack of competent barbs). Since levelling from 60-100 is so fast nowadays, a lot of barbs simply haven't worked out the best way to combo skills in various situations, and yeah, its hard to give advice to somebody who doesn't want to hear it.

    Here is the ironic bit.

    I levelled my sin on the same account as my barb. Mistake! I can't buff myself on demand. So a few days ago, lo and behold, I started levelling a barb alt. Why? Yup, so I can get those wonderful buffs. Nothing against you bms, but nothing beats the hour long sage hp buff, and sage titans. If nothing else, barbs will always be the favorite buffers.

    Though... I'll add this. Barbs can do really well in more situations than you'd think. The obvious: warsong, delta, TT 3-3, TW. Not so obvious... duo FC with an aps. Tank-build barb can round up the mobs with an ease that a dpser could never compete with. Barb 'devour' is the strongest physical defense debuff in the game (of similar skills that share same icon). Nirvana. In my experience: barb + 3 dps > 4 dps in terms of damage per second. Easily, once you factor in the debuff and the buff (titans). Lot of people (barbs themselves) don't realize this. Having a barb simply makes any instance easier... maybe slightly slower in some cases, but always easier.

    So yeah, here's to the latest barb on DW server :p May his buffs be strong.

    Azzazin
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  • Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    well, I have some good barb friends and I can't complain much about clerics.
    But yeah, interval made barbs pretty much obsolete in a lot of cases.

    BH Warsong has a 50% failure as Xarathox said, and that's just because of the **** geared FC hypered nubs hitting 100 with lvl 80 unsharded and unrefined gear. I remember 1 yr ago Warsong BH was one of the easy ones. The hard part was the waiting.
    In a 3-3 BH a few days back someone asked to kill 30 mobs, cause it seems the boss will be easier after. The reluctance of a few squad members to kill 2 other mobs (we were at 28 kills) was to me an incredible proof of stupidity. While we were pulling a mob a sin pulled the boss. He died ofc. If I would have been the cleric I wouldn't have rezzed him. Let the idiot run the whole TT back.
    Another bad BM and Barb moment was in Delta wave 2 when without a weapon the Barb and BM could not keep aggro off me. I mean...really?wtf...

    So yeah, there are a few barbs I gladly run with and I come to trust them when something needs to be done. But they are a rare sight and almost always busy doing something.

    To end my post, the population of barbs hasn't dwindled as much as it dwindled the number of barbs played with skill, that's why we get the impression of actually having less barbs available when we need them.

    LOL If you are pure build wizz, then it would be hard for a BM to steal from you. But that is where a genie can come in handy to help steal aggro with Alpha Male, for a period of time, giving the barb a chance to use ROAR to get aggro back to himself. So, yeah it is a barb and bm teamwork that will help keep you alive and the rest of the squad. That is my advice to the bm's and barbs out there.

    oh i am sure you know this Ursa, but take rings off could help a bit or having a weaker weapon to switch to if things don't seem to be working well still when the others still can't keep aggro from you.
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited January 2011
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    LOL If you are pure build wizz, then it would be hard for a BM to steal from you. But that is where a genie can come in handy to help steal aggro with Alpha Male, for a period of time, giving the barb a chance to use ROAR to get aggro back to himself. So, yeah it is a barb and bm teamwork that will help keep you alive and the rest of the squad. That is my advice to the bm's and barbs out there.

    Or the Barb could just use Alpha Male, cutting the need for the BM to take any aggro, and saving Roar for an emergency...

    I mean, I was told that Barbs should have Alpha Male maxed as soon as possible if they intend to tank any endgame instance (FC, Delta, etc.). That way, if it began to hit the fan, the Barb can Turtle and Alpha Male to save the instance...

    Just what I've been told, judge it how you will.

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  • Mitachi - Dreamweaver
    Mitachi - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,201 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Nice...because of the abuse, we are now short on Clerics and Barbs. See, this is what happens when people take the game too serious and yell at someone when they are trying to have fun. It's a game, remember that.

    A few barbs i know converted to sins or bms not because they like DD'ing more but to get away from being called a fail. If the person is having trouble being a barb, help them in giving advice. Yelling only hurts them and will back-fire when you need that barb later on to tank. Nice job. Remember, they get the biggest repair bill out of any class not to mention they go through a lot of potions/crab meat/tic's in their charm.

    Seems like almost every minute now i am seeing in World Chat, people are crying out for a cleric. Guess what, same thing. If you die, don't yell at the cleric. They have it so much harder then other class when it comes to leveling up in this game. If they die, they have to town it back and lose exp to come back to rez us. Also, they are trying to keep a entire squad alive. That takes a lot of talent and concentration to do. But my biggest issue is hearing that some only talk to the clerics when they need something from them and pretend to be their friends. How messed up is that!? These are people, not npc's. Treat them like a tool and find yourself missing a cleric later on along with that rez.

    l:< Barbs and Clerics are people too!!!....(who play them)b:surrender

    Yay!!!!! Someone that understands us!!!b:cry
    lalalala Pokemon
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  • _Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver
    _Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    no shortage here, might be cuz im old school and always say ty and please and just generally show respect i unno, but my fl has mostly clerics and barbs on it to be honest, with the abuse they take i see why they blow alot of ppl off, its not hard to say please and ty, i mean really
    Marshal of the Lvl 3 Faction SubZero on DW server, pm me in game!!!b:victory
  • Nenor - Dreamweaver
    Nenor - Dreamweaver Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Samnang - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    .
    There is nothing left for you unless you restat to aps. There are only a few factions who can have any kind of TW that lasts more then a few seconds and a delta run for BH doesn't take long at all. And as for nirvana you can almost forget it for a pure tank barb who isn't briming with cash. I have only been able to get on 1 run in maybe 2 months and thats bc a friend (who is high aps) took pitty on me and took me in last week. There was no chance of me making my own since i had never been inside before.


    Look for me online. We do non-aps nirva runs all the time. After all , its not about doing nirva in 15 mins.. what's the point? You get 3 keys a day (maybe an extra from bh) and that's what you get. I actually prefer to play, have a good time, and maybe make a new friend or two. I mean there isnt a terribly HUGE amount to do at end game anyway is there? So why not waste 40 minutes in a nirva run having fun.
    And anyone who denys a barb, IMO, to go on a nirva run because they don't have 5 aps... doesnt deserve a barb to help them do anything.. ever. Period. I'm sure all the 5 apers have an alt that relys on the barb class to hold aggro, else they would die. It's called, one hand washes the other, I help you, you help me.. tell me to blow off.. and when you need me, i'll tell you the same.
    And don't get me started on the poor wizzys and psys trying to get in a nirva squad... they have every right to go as well. (and yes, we would let them in our squad)
  • Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Samnang - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    .
    There is nothing left for you unless you restat to aps. There are only a few factions who can have any kind of TW that lasts more then a few seconds and a delta run for BH doesn't take long at all. And as for nirvana you can almost forget it for a pure tank barb who isn't briming with cash. I have only been able to get on 1 run in maybe 2 months and thats bc a friend (who is high aps) took pitty on me and took me in last week. There was no chance of me making my own since i had never been inside before.


    Look for me online. We do non-aps nirva runs all the time. After all , its not about doing nirva in 15 mins.. what's the point? You get 3 keys a day (maybe an extra from bh) and that's what you get. I actually prefer to play, have a good time, and maybe make a new friend or two. I mean there isnt a terribly HUGE amount to do at end game anyway is there? So why not waste 40 minutes in a nirva run having fun.
    And anyone who denys a barb, IMO, to go on a nirva run because they don't have 5 aps... doesnt deserve a barb to help them do anything.. ever. Period. I'm sure all the 5 apers have an alt that relys on the barb class to hold aggro, else they would die. It's called, one hand washes the other, I help you, you help me.. tell me to blow off.. and when you need me, i'll tell you the same.
    And don't get me started on the poor wizzys and psys trying to get in a nirva squad... they have every right to go as well. (and yes, we would let them in our squad)

    b:thanks Yes it is about the fun. I am happy to take a wizzy, psy, and even a pure tank in with me. So what if it takes a hour. Again, it's a game, not a job!!!

    *runs and hugs a barb and cleric near me* b:bye ;D Herroe
  • Dakuken - Dreamweaver
    Dakuken - Dreamweaver Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    b:thanks Yes it is about the fun. I am happy to take a wizzy, psy, and even a pure tank in with me. So what if it takes a hour. Again, it's a game, not a job!!!

    *runs and hugs a barb and cleric near me* b:bye ;D Herroe

    LIES!

    GAME IZ SRS BZNSS

    4-5APS OR GTFO

    That being said, any Wizards and Barbs wanna go do Nirvana? :D
  • Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Dakuken - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    LIES!

    GAME IZ SRS BZNSS

    4-5APS OR GTFO

    That being said, any Wizards and Barbs wanna go do Nirvana? :D

    b:chuckle funny. now we know where the haters are ;o
  • dyrl
    dyrl Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm not sure if I agree with the disrespect aspect. The biggest thing I have seen the last 6 months is the huge increase in Hyper characters. Barbs and clerics (this includes others) who are lvl 80+ with very low lvl skills. This can and often does cause rage. It has come to this...know who you squad with, ignore all the strangers..lol. I am a big fan of well schooled Barbs and Clerics....unlike the so called tanks from the other classes who die and use the universal apology "Sorry, wasn't ready" or "Sorry, Lag" or better yet...."Sorry, missed my combo"

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