Shortage

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

Nice...because of the abuse, we are now short on Clerics and Barbs. See, this is what happens when people take the game too serious and yell at someone when they are trying to have fun. It's a game, remember that.

A few barbs i know converted to sins or bms not because they like DD'ing more but to get away from being called a fail. If the person is having trouble being a barb, help them in giving advice. Yelling only hurts them and will back-fire when you need that barb later on to tank. Nice job. Remember, they get the biggest repair bill out of any class not to mention they go through a lot of potions/crab meat/tic's in their charm.

Seems like almost every minute now i am seeing in World Chat, people are crying out for a cleric. Guess what, same thing. If you die, don't yell at the cleric. They have it so much harder then other class when it comes to leveling up in this game. If they die, they have to town it back and lose exp to come back to rez us. Also, they are trying to keep a entire squad alive. That takes a lot of talent and concentration to do. But my biggest issue is hearing that some only talk to the clerics when they need something from them and pretend to be their friends. How messed up is that!? These are people, not npc's. Treat them like a tool and find yourself missing a cleric later on along with that rez.

l:< Barbs and Clerics are people too!!!....(who play them)b:surrender

ShellShellz - Dreamweaver

Wooot u tell em getter ^^

these ppls need respect, not disrespect b:angry

jkughbnj

While I think we've always been short on barbs and clerics, I do agree that it's worse now than ever.
I can understand that the game means a lot to people, and we get caught up in the heat of the moment - but yelling never makes it better. Sometimes you have to take outside influences into consideration; it's not always "lol omg ur fael", sometimes people are dealing with lag, server/boss glitches, invalid skill/item errors, conversations; maybe they're even tired or have real-life things happening to them. There are so many things to be taken into account.
Getting pissy because accidents happen is childish. Yelling at your barb for anything accidental and calling them a "fail" is never appropriate, and you're going to regret it sometime down the road if you happen to need them later. Some barbs even get revenge by not saving your butt when you steal aggro.
And I agree, barbs always get the biggest repair/pot bills. It might not be skin off your back but it's skin off ours; so help us out in any way you can. We don't want to fight over stupid accidents or mistakes, we just wanna get the job done while having fun with people along the way.

And I know what it's like for clerics, I have one.
Don't yell at me when you die - it's usually your own fault, even if you're too caught up in the moment to realize it. And shouting "heal, heal, rez, rez" is pitifully stupid; I have eyes, I see what's happening. Yelling at me doesn't make anything happen faster.
Nothing ticks me off more than DDs purposefully stealing aggro off the barb when they can't tank. It's such a waste of mana to rez you, re-buff you, and heal you all over again. And I personally prefer a barb tank to any other - it takes a lot of mana and alertness to heal such small HP.

And I can see how it's nice to have a full Friend's List, but if they're not actually "friends" of yours, they're just tools. And no one likes being treated like that. It's a social game, I hate seeing people being used just to get things done. Let's be friendly, for god's sake. Talk to us every now and then.

Venting = Fun. (:

ColdTurkey - Dreamweaver

^ Post fail, that was mine. Sorry.

Siege - Dreamweaver

I highly doubt disrespect is the #1 reason for a lack of those two classes. It is more so this whole 5 aps craze. I've seen such a huge increase in BMs than I ever have since my 2 years of being on this game. Our class used to be the one disrespected because our role wasn't as vital, but as soon as this DPS hype set in, so many BMs started popping up like weeds. This server alone I have been here since the opening of this server and I have not seen much of the disrespect towards barbs and clerics you're talking about.

My blame is going towards PWE on this one.

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I highly doubt disrespect is the #1 reason for a lack of those two classes. It is more so this whole 5 aps craze. I've seen such a huge increase in BMs than I ever have since my 2 years of being on this game. Our class used to be the one disrespected because our role wasn't as vital, but as soon as this DPS hype set in, so many BMs started popping up like weeds. This server alone I have been here since the opening of this server and I have not seen much of the disrespect towards barbs and clerics you're talking about.

My blame is going towards PWE on this one.

I'm sure that is too about aps. I'm mainly going off from what friends have told me, what i have seen in squads, and on World Chats. Shoot, some of my cleric friends won't TT anymore unless it is with strictly friends do to knowing the chances of being called a fail for poor reasons by strangers.

For the bm part, yeah true, but more with the sins in my view. But disagree with it being all about the aps.

To blame....yeah PWE and some of the players in the game.

Siege - Dreamweaver

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm sure that is too about aps. I'm mainly going off from what friends have told me, what i have seen in squads, and on World Chats. Shoot, some of my cleric friends won't TT anymore unless it is with strictly friends do to knowing the chances of being called a fail for poor reasons by strangers.

For the bm part, yeah true, but more with the sins in my view. But disagree with it being all about the aps

I said the DPS issue is most likely the #1 reason, not the only reason. My reason for believing disrespect doesn't contribute an equal amount to the lack of barbs and clerics is because you'll find that kind of attitude in every mmo that has such classes. To not expect it here when choosing these two classes is well...living in a bubble. That or the people who do quit these classes for that reason does not A. read the class descriptions or B. lack common sense.

People are so big on talking about respecting barbs and clerics. Well where were these kind of threads when BMs were disrespected? Its like saying you only deserve respect if you're beneficial to others...

ColdTurkey - Dreamweaver

Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Its like saying you only deserve respect if you're beneficial to others...

You do only deserve respect if you're beneficial to others. If you weren't beneficial to others, you would have to be the antonym, harmful, and no one would care. (:
DDs are beneficial, therefore they need respect. No one is disagreeing, and that isn't the issue here at all. We're here to vent about the treatment of barbs and clerics in particular.
Try to keep up.

Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My reason for believing disrespect doesn't contribute an equal amount to the lack of barbs and clerics is because you'll find that kind of attitude in every mmo that has such classes. To not expect it here when choosing these two classes is well...living in a bubble. That or the people who do quit these classes for that reason does not A. read the class descriptions or B. lack common sense.

To believe that someone wouldn't consider changing their class after being vehemently berated concerning activities that happened purely because of their class' role in a squad is... well, "living in a bubble".
Stereotypical disrespect is enough to make anyone pick a neutral class regardless of the MMO. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words cut even deeper. No one picks a character class in this game with the expectation that, solely based on class, they'll be disrespected.

Class Description (Cleric): Slow movement-speed; Low defense, High magic attack; Has healing abilities; Chronically blamed for player death, though not always at fault.
Oh, whoops, I must have missed that last one. Better move onto something else.

Siege - Dreamweaver

ColdTurkey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You do only deserve respect if you're beneficial to others. If you weren't beneficial to others, you would have to be the antonym, harmful, and no one would care. (:
DDs are beneficial, therefore they need respect. No one is disagreeing, and that isn't the issue here at all. We're here to vent about the treatment of barbs and clerics in particular.
Try to keep up.

Ok maybe I should've been more specific. Should I say "easily replaceable"? Does that work? Barbs and clerics play or played (clerics still do at least..) a vital role in keeping the party alive, DDs did not. So yeah DDs would be beneficial, but not as much as a barb/cleric would be.

To believe that someone wouldn't consider changing their class after being vehemently berated concerning activities that happened purely because of their class' role in a squad is... well, "living in a bubble".
Stereotypical disrespect is enough to make anyone pick a neutral class regardless of the MMO. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words cut even deeper. No one picks a character class in this game with the expectation that, solely based on class, they'll be disrespected.

Twisting words. I simply stated it should be an expectation when choosing classes that play a vital role in keeping the party alive. Yeah I understand that abuse would make one want to switch classes, but that is all part of my reason as for why barb/clerics should not be treated like they're the only ones that have to deal with that ****.

Class Description (Cleric): Slow movement-speed; Low defense, High magic attack; Has healing abilities; Chronically blamed for player death, though not always at fault.
Oh, whoops, I must have missed that last one. Better move onto something else.

You can try and play a smartass all you want. Like I said, all it involves is a little common sense, unless you're saying you lack that and need to read it in words to understand how things may turn out when choosing such a class.

I see so many threads going on about respecting barbs/clerics. This is only 1 in 100, there was a lack of BMs back then and no one really gave a rat's ***. Why? Because they're easily replaceable.

Anyway, that's my opinion of the situation, not going to try and force it on anyone.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Honestly.. I don't see disrespect towards Clerics or Barbarians in general, only to those who act like two year olds and can't do their job in a squad properly (which applies to all classes). I've run Deltas, BHQ's up to SoT (I didn't need them, friends needed a Cleric), and I've done pretty much everything there is to do in this game excluding Nirvana. I'll admit some people, especially Barbs and Clerics do get disrespected, but... there's usually a good reason for it, not just because the class themselves attract disrespect.

I agree with what's been said earlier, people switch from those classes and even others to play classes that can reach 5APS so they can do amazing damage and get runs done quicker for more money. I'm working on a Blademaster right now, but mainly because I enjoy the class. I won't have 5APS for a long time to come, in fact I may never have it, but it's a really fun character and I love using it.

Anyway.. in all honesty this rant is a bit pointless and I'm assuming you only made it because you couldn't find a Barb or Cleric for something or they bailed on you because someone in your squad was being an idiot. Either way, **** happens, just move on and enjoy the game. :P

LiquidChild - Dreamweaver

Yea Ive noticed that Alot but then again my sister in law is a cleric so not to much of a problem their it's barbs I have the most hardest time trying to find these days

LonelySpaced - Dreamweaver

Respect is earned and not given.

Respect should be based on skill, it seldom, unfortunately level and equipment is seen as more important.

I haven't played my cleric in ages. It can be easy to get in a party, but too often I find the squad is dumbed down with players that don't play as part of a squad or even try to. That is not to say that they cant , just that they cant be bothered to (I am also guilty of this as a DD).

The normal flaming in squads is well normal. Hasn't changed in any of the MMO's I have played, nether has the respect issue nor the total lack of players playing the healer/tank classes.

I rolled a cleric to help people, I knew that I would be flamed before I hit the create button. I am with Siege on that point.

Start putting Clerics and Tanks on a pedestal as to be respected and we will simply get worse clerics and tanks who play just to be important. (some do this already)

Tojop - Dreamweaver

Barbs have been scarce for as long as I can remember. These days, they're not even required for tanking, so it's not a huge deal. I've not noticed any shortage of clerics whatsoever.

Lolilace - Dreamweaver

I don't really think there's been much of a shortage, but I guess shortage could be thought of when a squad doesn't get a tank or healer within a few minutes (or time differences/tired of those certain runs? ^^ ).

For example, I've noticed from FC squads I've joined that if they don't get a tank within 5-10 minutes, most of the squad leaves. I'm a patient person and casual player; I'll wait longer to make sure I don't get a failtastic squad, but nowadays everything is so rushed. People don't even talk much in a lot of random squads I've been in like I remember when I first joined PWI at least faction chat is usually lively to replace that silence b:chuckle

For a while I wanted to drop my cleric because I kept getting abused, but once I got to lvl70 the amount of times players ragequit "because I fail" reduced dramatically. I also stood up for myself more, which surprisingly helps lol b:surrender

Demand and Supply- demand for tanks and clerics has gone up, but the number of them hasn't, resulting in the appearance of shortages

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

@Lonely
I'm sorry but in my opinion your view of respect is crooked.
If you have to earn respect before you can expect to have it, then how are newbies supposed to achieve anything since they haven't done anything yet to earn anything? And since this game relies heavily on squads, since they haven't done anything they never deserve anything in the first place.

No, respect fundamentally CANNOT be a privilidge to heavy cash shoppers that can afford better gear and more skill books. Respect has to be by default and something you don't need to gain, but something you can only lose.

In my opinion this is the right course for anyone and being in a faction that stands up for Respect as being one of its defining attributes... Respect has to be by default, nobody should never have to work to deserve respect, but fight against losing it.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

I've noticed a shortage of Clerics these days. To the point where I rolled a Cleric just to help others out who can't seem to find one

Centaura - Dreamweaver

Things have gotten that bad? Well im not surprised i jumped ship on this game months ago Love ya my brothers and sisters in pwi you know who you are. Pally Tanks are the best though your barbs are nothing to me.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

i played this toon, i played a cleric, and i still cant say that i have seen a lot of disrespect towards clerics/barbs/tank. just a couple of runs, and only 1-2 that werent reasonable.

my personal assumption is that the whole "cleric/barb abuse" comes from fail clerics/barbs that QQ all over the fora/wc. of course they will see a lot of disrespect since they are the reason.

Satchiko - Dreamweaver

It's not an issue of respect. There's a shortage of barbs because interval users are generally better tanks especially if they have bloodpaint. Three seconds of invincibility every 12-15 seconds makes tanking things much easier. As for clerics there just feels like a shortage because almost any worthwhile squad requires one. No other single class has that much demand. Really I think anybody who actually likes playing either of those classes is going to keep doing it even if some random stranger keeps calling them a noob.

Prophete - Dreamweaver

Maybe there aren't a lot of cleric available at your level?
I mean, you are all above 95 at least.
I got to admit that since a few levels, I receive a lot of pm for FC squad; but before lvl 80ish, I was really often with another cleric in a bh squad, and it looked really easy to find one.
Now, at my level, I begin to have a regular squad with which I'm farming TT/ doing FC; if all clerics starts doing this at lvl 80ish, that could explain the shortage of available cleric on the market.
As for barb, I dunno.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

My sister's a cleric and she has a friend who's a Barb who is helping her level it, so to be honest, my squads always have more trouble finding BMs, or good DDs, for our level.

Although knowing Tox, she's probably already leveled beyond my xp range in the time I was at work last night...

Toxie - Dreamweaver

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My sister's a cleric and she has a friend who's a Barb who is helping her level it, so to be honest, my squads always have more trouble finding BMs, or good DDs, for our level.

Although knowing Tox, she's probably already leveled beyond my xp range in the time I was at work last night...

Ding 89 b:surrender

At least for FC squads the hardest thing to find for me is a bm, although I know a couple months ago it seemed the hardest thing for our nirvy squads to find was a cleric, which is why I made one.

Teeki - Dreamweaver

Personally I have not experienced much abuse because I squad with people I know and trust. However, I know my skills as a cleric and I know when my abilities are stretched to the max (this usually happens in squads where I don't know the other members). I let the squad know immediately and try to work out a strategy to make healing easier for me (i.g. squad stay together, stop aggroing everything, hit what you aggro, etc). If that does not work I can be very rough... If you aggro monsters without hitting them I will not heal you, period. If you do this repeatedly I may not even resurrect you b:pleased What more does a squad need to know? If they give me **** I can leave b:thanks

LonelySpaced - Dreamweaver

@Hazumu you missunderstand me.

I agree all start on a even level of respect, there is no diffrance between a lvl 1 or a lvl 105, but it is harder for a lvl 1 to lose respect just as it is easer for a lvl 100 to lose it due to exptations.

What I was saying badly is you cant automaticaly give a player respect due to thier class. To respect them more requiers them to earn it.

All being equal you shouldent disrespect some one for the same resion.
There is seldom if not ever a good resion to disrespect some one.

Back on track.

I ran some FC's today with no cleric as we couldent find one. We had a realy good barb so we were lucky.

Barbs are as allways hard to find.

With all the hypered easy exp Clerics & Barbs level fast, but I have also seen a lot of clerics hit 100 and then quit for a while so this will only cause a void.

I dont think this is an abuse problem, more that they just got bored after x number of FC's

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Honestly.. I don't see disrespect towards Clerics or Barbarians in general, only to those who act like two year olds and can't do their job in a squad properly (which applies to all classes). I've run Deltas, BHQ's up to SoT (I didn't need them, friends needed a Cleric), and I've done pretty much everything there is to do in this game excluding Nirvana. I'll admit some people, especially Barbs and Clerics do get disrespected, but... there's usually a good reason for it, not just because the class themselves attract disrespect.

I agree with what's been said earlier, people switch from those classes and even others to play classes that can reach 5APS so they can do amazing damage and get runs done quicker for more money. I'm working on a Blademaster right now, but mainly because I enjoy the class. I won't have 5APS for a long time to come, in fact I may never have it, but it's a really fun character and I love using it.



Anyway.. in all honesty this rant is a bit pointless and I'm assuming you only made it because you couldn't find a Barb or Cleric for something or they bailed on you because someone in your squad was being an idiot. Either way, **** happens, just move on and enjoy the game. :P

Na, like i said, i am going off what i have seen told by friends. Finding a cleric and barb is no trouble what so ever for me. If a cleric or barb friend makes a mistake, i pat them on the shoulder and say "Try again." But unfortunately, i am done with random squads myself. I have squad with random people that do show little respect for other players for things not going fast or how they see the game should be played. TT's have become a lot less fun with these days b:sad


@LonelySpaced

>.< can't say i agree with the hypering people that hit 80's in 2 months. They have little skill in playing their class and lack the spirit for having skills at a appropriate level. But please, just to let those people know, work on your gear at least. being at level 95 or so and still using TT 70 gear....will hurt you and the squad. When i say hurt you, i mean the squad or a individual in the squad will use that as a excuse of the squad failing in it's task. Just my opinion though

By the way, for the lack of bm's...
we are out there, just busy getting our aps up now because it seems to be a expected of us to have it high.

P.S. Sorry back, i was out of town for a bit. Hi everyone =D

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Na, like i said, i am going off what i have seen told by friends. Finding a cleric and barb is no trouble what so ever for me. If a cleric or barb friend makes a mistake, i pat them on the shoulder and say "Try again." But unfortunately, i am done with random squads myself. I have squad with random people that do show little respect for other players for things not going fast or how they see the game should be played. TT's have become a lot less fun with these days b:sad


@LonelySpaced

>.< can't say i agree with the hypering people that hit 80's in 2 months. They have little skill in playing their class and lack the spirit for having skills at a appropriate level. But please, just to let those people know, work on your gear at least. being at level 95 or so and still using TT 70 gear....will hurt you and the squad. When i say hurt you, i mean the squad or a individual in the squad will use that as a excuse of the squad failing in it's task. Just my opinion though

By the way, for the lack of bm's...
we are out there, just busy getting our aps up now because it seems to be a expected of us to have it high.

P.S. Sorry back, i was out of town for a bit. Hi everyone =D

Welcome back :O

And.. People tend to be disrespectful when you go against what they want or disagree in any way, just yesterday I was in FC with an Archer from Tempest on my Blademaster, the run was going great until we got to the room before Messanger of Fear and I didn't pull the mobs because they're little xp and hardly worth it (and aside from that most squads I run with just sneak past them). Anyway.. I went and killed the Shade and then the Wizard aoe'd the mobs and they killed them before I got there so as we start the boss the Archer starts giving me **** and when I told her why I didn't pull them she went berserk on me... got to the point where I didn't even wanna finish the run, dropped squad, and pk'd her. Soooooo yeah, respect and disrespect goes towards all the classes >.< Doesn't happen insanely often, but sucks when it does.

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

-sighs- When did a game become so much work b:sweat

Decus - Dreamweaver

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-sighs- When did a game become so much work b:sweat

Since MMOs were conceived. b:quiet

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

I do wonder though if the new classes will fill this void of healers and tanksb:puzzled

Ninja_Dagger - Dreamweaver

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=38721&c=235

RielHawk - Dreamweaver

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I do wonder though if the new classes will fill this void of healers and tanksb:puzzled

seems like mystics will be a comination of cleric and veno, they got rez skill and heal pet for example.

seeker don't really look like tanks, their hp does seem pretty low, but maybe....... they could be rather a bm kinda class?