Psy's V Wiz

2

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  • Vindrael - Lost City
    Vindrael - Lost City Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I really wish my Wizzie on Arch could be brought over to Lost City. I would love to see Valrain and Vindrael duel once this toon hits 100. b:chuckle
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If you're talking about psy will, you gotta rmr BT is half mag also.

    Doesn't matter. Psy will resists ALL damage of a hit that's even partially physical, thus the entire Blazing Tempest is resisted. I believe a good way to prove my description of the rule is to Frostblade a BM and let him melee a Psy with Psy will on. I DO think either apothecary pots that add element damage on attacks OR the sin water damage buff works though, for some reason.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Derressh - Dreamweaver
    Derressh - Dreamweaver Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Doesn't matter. Psy will resists ALL damage of a hit that's even partially physical, thus the entire Blazing Tempest is resisted. I believe a good way to prove my description of the rule is to Frostblade a BM and let him melee a Psy with Psy will on. I DO think either apothecary pots that add element damage on attacks OR the sin water damage buff works though, for some reason.

    Pretty sure this isn't true, or maybe just works with BT. But I know the fire damage from the blazing arrow buff Archers get goes through Psy will too.
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  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Derressh - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Pretty sure this isn't true, or maybe just works with BT. But I know the fire damage from the blazing arrow buff Archers get goes through Psy will too.

    The buff??

    Can't be. If so, then every archer on my entire server is incapable of figuring this out, and that's just ridiculous. I definitely resist them 100% when they attack, save for a metal magic skill or two that they have; those get through.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver
    Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Psy will resists ALL damage of a hit that's even partially physical. I believe a good way to prove my description of the rule is to Frostblade a BM and let him melee a Psy with Psy will on. I DO think either apothecary pots that add element damage on attacks OR the sin water damage buff works though, for some reason.

    That's interesting. Seems like the devs aren't very thorough with their coding. I haven't been playing my psy long enough to get BT'd yet that I know of (at least when I wasn't afk).
    BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »
    as far as your crit assumption goes , its plain wrong . crit is based on luck you can get 5 crits in a row and than shott out 1000 spells and none of them will crit , so you cant take average of these

    i said ON AVERAGE. that's what it approaches as the number of attacks approaches infinity. out of 100 trillion spells, you'll crit ~20 trillion of them if you have a 20% crit rate. pretty sure my math is right. and since crits give 100% more damage, a 20% critrate is essentially 20% more damage on average. just like 100% crit is 100% more damage.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    1)Everyone is talking about black voodoo and all but forgetting the damage increase from undine.

    And while you're doing all the math of Stone Smasher vs lvl 11 BIDS, take the crit bonus for sage BIDS into account


    2)(since sage wiz should hit harder with the 5% mastery bonus anyway).


    3)So take whatever dmg you get from BIDS (500% Wep attack+ 13955) and multiply it by 50% chance of 30% crit. Keep in mind every crit is 1% increase in damage on average (100% crit = 100% increase in damage, 50% crit = 50% average increase, etc.)

    SOOO sage bids would give 1.15*(500% wep attack + 13955) in actuality = 575% wep attack + 16094.25.

    I'd like to see 400% + 10253.1 dmg compete with that. Oh, and wizards have higher pdef from earth barrier and higher average ele resists. But psys with high soulforce are undoubtedly one of the best classes in the game.

    1)well, a psy is most of the time in black voodoo when he is going to DD, especially if we are talking about pve. the difference is that black voodoo is a passive buff that should be renewed every 15min while undine takes some time to cast, and should be cast every 12sec. besides, it's not aoe, is it?
    anyway, speaking of combos a demon psy could use a regular aoe for a chance to lower earth resistance by 20%, tide spirit for -chan +crit and bonus mag dmg or landslide for chance to +crit. tide spirit could be used for extra +100% weapon attack and -chan by sage psys too.

    2)sage psys has the same mastery but i guess that it would give a bit more since the masic m.dmg is higher for the wizzy

    3)not sure how the extra crit in BIDS work. if the extra crit buff is applied to the BIDS itself u are right. if it starts after BIDS is cast, seeing that it lasts 10sec and BIDS has a 30sec cd...no xd

    ofc i wont say that an undined BIDS wouldnt hit harder than stone smasher. but combos.. are combos.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    tide spirit could be used for extra +100% weapon attack and -chan by sage psys too.

    But Tide spirit sucks balls. D<

    2 god damn sparks and it barely reduces ****. In a practical sense, it has very limited uses, cause Psys generally need to use their sparks defensively, since we really have no defense otherwise. Yeah there's white voodoo but that creates a whole new game and fighting style if you use that as your defense.


    I think it's also worth mentioning that, let's say that one day -channeling becomes rather abundant. On this day, Wizzies will blow Psys out of the water, DPS-wise. All our cast is stacked into our casting time, which CAN'T be reduced. At least, not yet. -100% channeling only saves us .5 seconds at worst, 2.1 at best.
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  • Necare - Harshlands
    Necare - Harshlands Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    2 god damn sparks and it barely reduces ****.

    If you're talking about reduced channel, I can say it reduces by ~90%.

    At least Town Portal takes ~1 second to cast with it active.

    But yeah
    it has very limited uses
    Once upon a time I was stuck in Hall of Deception.
    The Devs felt sorry for me having to smash lowbies all day, so they decided to promote me.
    I then rerolled a Psychic.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Necare - Harshlands wrote: »
    If you're talking about reduced channel, I can say it reduces by ~90%.

    At least Town Portal takes ~1 second to cast with it active.

    But yeah

    i think it's -90% too, town portal takes ~1sec indeed.

    WTB -cast gear xd
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Necare - Harshlands wrote: »
    If you're talking about reduced channel, I can say it reduces by ~90%.

    At least Town Portal takes ~1 second to cast with it active.

    But yeah

    Yeah, cause why the hell would I need my 6 second AOE stun and 10 second damage immunity when I could teleport to the nearest town within 3 seconds?
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Testical - Harshlands
    Testical - Harshlands Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    b:angry I better see some changes to wiz in the upcoming update or I'll be really pissed. b:angry Make sutra 1 spark please
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Derressh - Dreamweaver
    Derressh - Dreamweaver Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    The buff??

    Can't be. If so, then every archer on my entire server is incapable of figuring this out, and that's just ridiculous. I definitely resist them 100% when they attack, save for a metal magic skill or two that they have; those get through.

    No, I know it is. I've fought a lot of archers, and when I use Psy will, they still hit me for very minuscule damage (around 20-30/shot) and tick my SoR as well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I main a 97 Psy named /\bra. The forums don't like his name.
    So I post on my Barb.
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  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    1)well, a psy is most of the time in black voodoo when he is going to DD, especially if we are talking about pve. the difference is that black voodoo is a passive buff that should be renewed every 15min while undine takes some time to cast, and should be cast every 12sec. besides, it's not aoe, is it?
    anyway, speaking of combos a demon psy could use a regular aoe for a chance to lower earth resistance by 20%, tide spirit for -chan +crit and bonus mag dmg or landslide for chance to +crit. tide spirit could be used for extra +100% weapon attack and -chan by sage psys too.

    2)sage psys has the same mastery but i guess that it would give a bit more since the masic m.dmg is higher for the wizzy

    That's exactly the point black voodoo doesnt need to be rebuffed all the time and terms of dmg on a boss psychics will benefit as well from the debuff because 2 elements ( water earth) are shared with the wiz.

    When comparing DPH i think its misleading to discuss only ultis and calculate the dmg of them. I rather like to compare the dmg of spam skills and normal spells frequently used too. So even if the dmg of the skill according to the description is slightly higher for the wiz the impact of black voodoo dramatically changes this in favor of the psychic + the so much faster initial channeling of the psy allows the psy to get off 2 spells with higher dmg in the time the wiz can cast 1. Sure wiz are able to use a lot of -chan where they can close this gap here a bit but they still wont reach the speed of a psy which would be ok if the psychics would hit less hard. I know this discussion has to be seen under another light with the 5APS problem but to me a psy is like a claw type caster whereas the wiz is the polearm caster and slower speed should always make more dmg per hit.

    @**** - i dont think making sutra 1 spark would be a good idea because the skill would be too powerfull with this change i rather would suggest to reduce the cooldown from 1 min to 45 sec and also modify the cooldown of Hailstorm a bit.

    @BT dmg absorbing- i guess it is like you said as long as a part of the attack is physical the complete dmg is taken away. Some of the psy skills are rly strange when it comes to the trigger event. I mean i tried the following with a psychic friend in a duel: He casted soulburn on me and i used morning dew on myself --> Soulburn was triggered which i think should be changed. Soulburn should only be triggered when a player uses an ATTACKskill on the psychic and not by ANY skill. I mean its not logical at all that a cleric stacking IH on himself gets a soulburn hit for every IH tick because he does 0 dmg to the psychic. Same goes for selfbuffs like elemental shell. It should be possible to reduce the impact of psychics attacks during soulburn debuff duration by casting the elemental shell on myself without getting with a soulburn hit
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Derressh - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No, I know it is. I've fought a lot of archers, and when I use Psy will, they still hit me for very minuscule damage (around 20-30/shot) and tick my SoR as well.

    i tested it and all i saw was resist :/

    imho, soulburn is fine as it is. it burns ur soul and when u do something u go splat :b
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    @ Harmownie , wizzies have an advantage here compared to other classes when we get soulburned we can just blink away , ive tested it and it seems that blink is one of the skills that one can use when we get soulburned to quickly escape before the psy has a chance to take advantage of the situation.
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    i tested it and all i saw was resist :/

    imho, soulburn is fine as it is. it burns ur soul and when u do something u go splat :b
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    i think it's -90% too, town portal takes ~1sec indeed.

    WTB -cast gear xd

    Town portal is 1 second with wizzy sutra as well so i dont think it gives 90% channel
  • Born_Free - Harshlands
    Born_Free - Harshlands Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    @HarmOwnie-- I disagee. If you've fought a IH stacking Cleric, you'll know just how hard it is to kill if you're not 5aps with insanely high damage output. Stack that alongside Plume Shell, and there's no way you can get rid of that Cleric without coming back a second time or calling for backup.

    Now Soulburn is one of those skills that makes people get punished, no matter what they do. So it finally gives ONE class that isn't a 5aps class the ability to kill a cleric while spamming IH and Plume Shell.
    And my original toon is a 98 cleric...I personally have always called clerics who IH spammed a bunch of cowards for not taking their punishment like men (and women). I think that Soulburn is one of those equalizers.

    I do agree the damage needs to be nurfed a little, because people shouldn't get half of their life taken just for buffing up or something. (Although quite honestly I laugh my **** off when someone tries to buff themselves and ends up suiciding.)

    This has been said a million times...Psychics have fewer elemental spells, and hit faster. I personally still believe that Wizards will always been the magical endgame nukes and will hit the hardest, because that's what they've always done. There's really no 'better' of the two because they're different than each other.

    I'd roll a wizard myself, but I have no patience at all for slow casting after rolling a Psychic. xD I don't even go on my cleric except for nirvana runs because I'm like... ">.> Casting slow, going back to Psychic nao."
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »
    @HarmOwnie-- I disagee. If you've fought a IH stacking Cleric, you'll know just how hard it is to kill if you're not 5aps with insanely high damage output. Stack that alongside Plume Shell, and there's no way you can get rid of that Cleric without coming back a second time or calling for backup.

    Now Soulburn is one of those skills that makes people get punished, no matter what they do. So it finally gives ONE class that isn't a 5aps class the ability to kill a cleric while spamming IH and Plume Shell.
    And my original toon is a 98 cleric...I personally have always called clerics who IH spammed a bunch of cowards for not taking their punishment like men (and women). I think that Soulburn is one of those equalizers.

    I do agree the damage needs to be nurfed a little, because people shouldn't get half of their life taken just for buffing up or something. (Although quite honestly I laugh my **** off when someone tries to buff themselves and ends up suiciding.)
    "
    I understand your point as a wiz fighting a IH stacking cleric works in 2 ways either you sleep him before he can fully stack the IH on himself and kill him quick with debuff and fast hard spells or sutra then but here its a question of wiz attack dmg vs healing power of the cleric which endgame often turns out in favour of the cleric the other way is hitting in his ih to charge enough chi to 1 hit with a ulti which has the downside that you have to survive the incoming hits until you got the 2 sparks

    Nevertheless in my understanding its completely wrong to make the skill work also if the player only uses defensive actions like in my elemental shell example or lets say i would change barrier type as a wiz or a bm using his defense switch skill
    its wrong to provide people with a - no matter what the enemy does skill instead players should use skill combinations according to the situation

    greetz harm0wnie
  • Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver
    Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »
    @ Harmownie , wizzies have an advantage here compared to other classes when we get soulburned we can just blink away , ive tested it and it seems that blink is one of the skills that one can use when we get soulburned to quickly escape before the psy has a chance to take advantage of the situation.

    so yeah, i was testing soulburn out with a friend. and apparently you take damage from using pots and genie skills. and immune doesn't affect the damage taken either. op much? haha
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    for whoever was talking about being able to resist all of BT with psy will, you are wrong. Immune to physical means just that, immune to the physical aspect of the skill. Combined with genie spark, I've killed psychics with BT even with psy will on =]

    And there is no way around soulburn, blink/triple spark/pots etc have no effect >.>
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  • LittIewg - Heavens Tear
    LittIewg - Heavens Tear Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I've tanked 2 Bt's at the same time with White voodoo on. Also both of the wiz were lvl 100,lol. Yes I was charmed,buffed. Not saying BT cant take a psy out. But if a psy with white voodoo lvl 10 or higher is probably not gonna be 1shot by BT unless theres a big gear difference
  • DemansPsy - Lost City
    DemansPsy - Lost City Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    for whoever was talking about being able to resist all of BT with psy will, you are wrong. Immune to physical means just that, immune to the physical aspect of the skill. Combined with genie spark, I've killed psychics with BT even with psy will on =]

    holy **** how low does the psy's hp gotta bet tp be killed bt a bt w/ psty immune on lol, iv been hit by tons of BTs in black voodoo, and since wizy usually sleeps me first, i end up expeling myself to reduce the damge (being unable to do anythin for a few secs after better than diein from a 1 shot imo), think the most iv even been hit by BT is 2.5k
    full 3r9 +11/12 (still using immac shards though) w/o CSing, leveled to 105 spaming pv, yes i have no life =D
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Wizzie would, again, have higher BMA to begin with.

    And yeah, as you've stated: A wizzie has other forms of defense and nothing else to spend their sparks on: their ultimates are very practical for them. A Psy on the other hand has chi-dependent defense lines and several chi-dependent moves; that level 100 AOE doesn't seem very practical at all.

    I don't understand this, the way you're saying this it sounds like wiz's have chi coming out their asses.

    Hell, even our BUFFS take chi.

    Also, due to faster channeling and casting times, psys build chi faster than wizards do. (Unless you get a sage pyrogram process.)

    Wizards build around our Ultimates because they're the most practical use of 2 sparks for us quite often, but we're in no way spamming them.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I've tested blazing arrow with Expel before. Although a "Resist" is shown the target still takes partial damage from blazing and this damage shows up in the damage log. Seeing "Resist" instead of damage only indicates that at least some of the damage was resisted. I assume Psychic Will behaves the same.

    You can also see this when archers fire arrows at fire immune mobs (although the archer herself does not see this interestingly enough).
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  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I've tested blazing arrow with Expel before. Although a "Resist" is shown the target still takes partial damage from blazing and this damage shows up in the damage log. Seeing "Resist" instead of damage only indicates that at least some of the damage was resisted. I assume Psychic Will behaves the same.

    You can also see this when archers fire arrows at fire immune mobs (although the archer herself does not see this interestingly enough).

    I remember Frostblading a mostly physical squad while fighting Fats (water immune) boss in Brimstone b:chuckle

    Resists were popping up like mad XD
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I don't understand this, the way you're saying this it sounds like wiz's have chi coming out their asses.

    Hell, even our BUFFS take chi.

    Also, due to faster channeling and casting times, psys build chi faster than wizards do. (Unless you get a sage pyrogram process.)

    Wizards build around our Ultimates because they're the most practical use of 2 sparks for us quite often, but we're in no way spamming them.

    i think that wizzies get more chi per skill.
    that, combined with the fact that u can efficiently stack -chan, would probably lead to more chi/sec for a wizzie.

    buffs? dont they last like 15min? ok, u need 2 more chi per min..lol xd

    his point was that wizzies mainly use chi for attack (and shrink/sleep) while a psy has to spend 1 spark for physical immunity... and that usually is spammed so 2 sparks every min.
    plus earth vector for stuns so another 3 sparks per min. doesnt really leave chi for our ulti

    while on the other hand, even if the wizzie spam shrin/whisper/shields that would be 132 chi per min leaving a lot of sparks for ultis
  • Mictain - Dreamweaver
    Mictain - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I find it rather amusing that everyone seems to focus so much on the initial damage. I will admit fully, having dueled ElderSig many times, if it's an "I hit you, you hit me" situation, a wizard will indeed have an edge over a psy simply for the fact their initial hit does more damage.

    Arguing that point is somewhat moot. Psychics aren't meant to be powerhouses that one-shot everyone....except barbs maybe. If you look at our skills, you'll notice almost EVERY psychic skill has some extra status effect to it as well. Whether it's slowing, stunning, knockback, interrupting channeling, decreasing accuracy, freezing...our skills are meant to be spammed not only for the raw damage, but for the status effects as well.

    Perhaps it'll peeve the wizards in here off, but I've always thought of the psychics as "specialists" in that while we do a good chunk of damage, our real claim to fame is the amount we $*#@ other classes up in the process...even with our signature moves.

    Red Tide...doesn't do much damage in its initial hit. Almost seems worthless at first. On a HA it's going to hurt more initially and probably won't be worth it...but the spell wasn't meant for HA. On a AA, the bleed effect hurts, and kills. Bleeding for damage equal to our Soulforce. Now it's not guaranteed, I have mine at LVL8 and it only has a 74% chance, but when it DOES hit, unless they purify fast (within the 9 second window for normal) than they will more than likely die, or at the very least tick their charm.

    So instead of arguing who does what, maybe we should be looking closer at what we COULD be doing together ^^;
  • jabotron
    jabotron Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I just wana say i got end game psy with r8 and im 75% to get 3 part of r9, i can tell u even r8 psy are squishy against wizz, they always do better dmg, they always have more chance to survive, they always be the best magic class to play, same is in pvp, end game wizz are gods in pvp and psy what? i pvp a lot on my psy and i tell u ppl they arent so good most of end game class can kill us easly, buffed i have like 7,760 hp 10,020 p def and so what? the ppl think psy are so omgwtf! are so wrong :S dont make psy if u desided to play on pvp better made wizz more fun with killing other even if u spend some $k for good gear that will be ur worst decidion ever, my main is bm i made psy cuz i have $ and dont know what to do with them... i regret ? maybe a little but just wana see if rank 9 is so much omggood and can make psy a kinda better in pvp batttles...
    .
  • Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear
    Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mictain - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Red Tide...doesn't do much damage in its initial hit. Almost seems worthless at first.

    I don't know what you're talking about... I like using red tide on a group of people and seeing them all drop at the same time from one shot b:thanks

    Red tide is a really strong skill. Sandburst is another. A 3 sparked sandburst could deal around 20k on each HA, LA target and over 14k on arcanes. Massive killing again.

    As for BT... I never tried using Psy will against it. I just white voodoo and it tickles. Most I've been hit by it on white voodoo is 6.6k by a rank IX wizard with amp, debuff and frenzy.

    Wizzies are fast kills. You stun them or let them seal themselves (soul of silence or stunning), switch voodoo and they die before the seal is off. That's my case at least.
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  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I don't know what you're talking about... I like using red tide on a group of people and seeing them all drop at the same time from one shot b:thanks

    Red tide is a really strong skill. Sandburst is another. A 3 sparked sandburst could deal around 20k on each HA, LA target and over 14k on arcanes. Massive killing again.

    As for BT... I never tried using Psy will against it. I just white voodoo and it tickles. Most I've been hit by it on white voodoo is 6.6k by a rank IX wizard with amp, debuff and frenzy.

    Wizzies are fast kills. You stun them or let them seal themselves (soul of silence or stunning), switch voodoo and they die before the seal is off. That's my case at least.

    If you see the wiz casting it you could also cast soulburn on him so he will 1shot himself or absorb most of the dmg with your soulforce skills ;->

    as for BT my lvl 10 BT with sage fire mastery and a TT 90 sword deals 2.6k dmg non crit to a lvl 86 psychic which is far away from 1 shotting him. Maybe with undine it would work but then the problem will be that it is really hard to undine + then get a direct hit to the psychic because of their defense skills. Whereas on the other hand his 79 water skill ( the glacial snare equivalent) hits me for~1k dmg and his spam skills also hurt a lot because of black voodoo.

    greetz harm0wnie

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