Sage vs Demon

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  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    tearvalerin wrote: »
    that 'sage' sin is extremely ignorant. they dont even know the difference between the two masteries.
    one is 90% the other is 75% + 2% crit. NOW watch this lovely little math problem using the formula for determining attack!

    (1 + 400 / 150 + .90 + 5) / (1 + 400 / 150 +.75 + 5) = 1.016 ~ or a 1.6% difference in damage while sparked. BUT seeing as the demon is attacking 25% faster, the demon is stronger. if you are going to come and spout nonsense, at least have the proof to back it up. 30% my ****... freakin moron sage.

    At least you're modest.

    And always correct.

    Thanks For Playing!

    RedMenace

    \inb4anotherfrickinlecture
    \\74 sin, and will be going sage
    \\\because I want to, and *now* cause it will irritate tearvalerin
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    at Least You're Modest.

    And Always Correct.

    Thanks For Playing!

    Redmenace

    \inb4anotherfrickinlecture
    \\74 Sin, And Will Be Going Sage
    \\\because I Want To, And *now* Cause It Will Irritate Tearvalerin

    +9000
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • tearvalerin
    tearvalerin Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    At least you're modest.

    And always correct.

    Thanks For Playing!

    RedMenace

    \inb4anotherfrickinlecture
    \\74 sin, and will be going sage
    \\\because I want to, and *now* cause it will irritate tearvalerin
    yay for a saccharine mouth dripping full of sarcasm!

    \inb4anotherpostlikethis
    \\does this because i dont know how to iterate points in a coherent method
    \\\hurr... durr?

    -tear.

    sages dont irritate me, ignorance does. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    last name ever, first name greatest
    like a sprained ankle, i aint something you wanna play with.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    tearvalerin wrote: »
    yay for a saccharine mouth dripping full of sarcasm!

    \inb4anotherpostlikethis
    \\does this because i dont know how to iterate points in a coherent method
    \\\hurr... durr?

    -tear.

    sages dont irritate me, ignorance does. :)

    Will you at least do me a favor and tell me that going Sage does not mean one should commit suicide for being a moron and therefore a hazard to humanity?

    Because that's really all that I care about. Personally I never argued that Sage > Demon on all fronts, just that Sage != failsin.

    And pretty much no one gives a damn about the actual numbers. Since those who can actually bother to read the numbers without getting suicidal thoughts will already pretty much know what they will tell anyway, and those who don't read them obviously don't care about them either.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • tearvalerin
    tearvalerin Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    ill put it in a way asterelle says it:
    I don't really agree that sage is fail. I do think that those who go sage typically did so overestimating the benefits.
    is that fine for you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    last name ever, first name greatest
    like a sprained ankle, i aint something you wanna play with.
  • Stretchlt - Harshlands
    Stretchlt - Harshlands Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Graey_Rain - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well the truth is demons pretty much superior in every way lol. But from your replies to people you seem to have already decided on going sage anyhow. And yeah sage do have some nice skills at the cost of nurfing their damage, but I don't get where people get this idea that sage skills are superior. Yeah bloodpaints good and they do have a few nice skills but demon have good skills too, e.g. stuns, sleep, rib strike, teles etc are better than sage. I'd say the skills are about equal with maybe a slight advantage to sage skills for pve and a big advantage to demon pvp skills. So yeah if you're a total carebear and never pvp and want to lower your damage output for some reason... you can't go wrong picking sage :) I would advise any other sin who wants to do worse damage and have far less pvp ability to do the same thing. However if you want good damage and to be good at pvp, kill things fast and actually get far more hp back off bloddpaint due to your faster attack speed pick demon. Sage are also not better at tanking if the demon has decent interval. With decent aps a demon will tank way better as they can get alot more hp back from bloodpaint and kill faster. I'm demon as you may have gathered, and I can tank loadsa ****. e.g. all fc boss's without a cleric, all bh 79 boss's etc. So why worry about stealing agro off the tank when you can tank yourself and the boss dies in half the time???
    But that's just my very biased opinion lol. I haven't played a sage sin and can't see why anyone would, so any sage sins out there please enlighten me as to which sage skills make everyone say they have far superior skills to demon sins. And lets hear what their good attributes are and stuff. The defence bonus from the spark is obviously nice but I don't think it comes anywhere close to being as good as demon spark for a sin. dagger mastery is good as it adds I think 15% dmg as appose to demon 2% crit. BP's better, powerdash is a little better, shadow escape is nice with the purify affect, tackle lasts a bit longer, maze step lasts a bit longer, errrm thats all i can think of that might be better for sage. All other skills are roughly the same or demon are superior in my opinion. And none of the sage skills are that much better than demon really... so I can't see any reason at all to go sage unless you are purposefully trying to make yourself do less damage like the op and gain a bit more survivability, and I don't know why you'd be playing a sin if you wanted to do low damage and hae good defence :/
    I don't mean this as post as a flame at sage sins btw, I know it's one sided but I just don't see many good sides to going sage, though I know there must be some so please inform me b:cute

    Sage not good for PvP? Graey, I will glady fight you or any other demon sin 1v1 and prove that damage spike works just as well as DPS in PK. And just a side note... demons are more effective carebears and imo does better in PvE than sage.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Entire thread: tl;dr. Seriously, one of these again.
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    tearvalerin wrote: »
    yay for a saccharine mouth dripping full of sarcasm!

    \inb4anotherpostlikethis
    \\does this because i dont know how to iterate points in a coherent method
    \\\hurr... durr?

    -tear.

    sages dont irritate me, ignorance does. :)

    Then why are you here?

    Nearly every message I see from you is attacking *someone* for their decisions about their character.

    If this forums are so irritating, and every last one of us is so FAIL, then why bother?

    For that matter, why continue to irritate us?

    Concern Troll Is Concerned

    RedMenace

    \more slashies for you
    \\how's the blood pressure?
    \\\have another RedBull
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • IGetNoLove - Heavens Tear
    IGetNoLove - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    At least you're modest.

    And always correct.

    Thanks For Playing!

    RedMenace

    \inb4anotherfrickinlecture
    \\74 sin, and will be going sage
    \\\because I want to, and *now* cause it will irritate tearvalerin

    Level NAO! I want that 3% buff!
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    tearvalerin wrote: »
    \inb4anotherpostlikethis
    \\does this because i dont know how to iterate points in a coherent method
    \\\hurr... durr?

    \failbecauseanotherpostalreadyliked
    \\idiocy
    \\\sojuvenilecomment
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Allilie - Sanctuary
    Allilie - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    just a comment on tear's opinion of pvp... what good will dps do you when you're stunned? in any sin on sin fight the quicker sin to let lose with that stun should always win regardless of build. Any light armor or arcane will not survive the ensuing onslaught unless the build itself is so fail it's rediculous.

    Comments on pvp /pointless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • VeritasXXX - Raging Tide
    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Haters be Hatin


    this is for you haters
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg4u7ko333U
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    We're not hating, just pointing out this build's flaws.
    This is for you.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Graey_Rain - Harshlands
    Graey_Rain - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Stretchlt - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sage not good for PvP? Graey, I will glady fight you or any other demon sin 1v1 and prove that damage spike works just as well as DPS in PK. And just a side note... demons are more effective carebears and imo does better in PvE than sage.

    Yeah that was really just a joke, I was messing with the op for making a discussion post about going sage or demon when they had already decided to go sage. I know sage can be good too :P But yeah I still think demon does better in 1v1 pvp. Though I won't deny that sage has its advantages in tw/group pvp. And spike damage is great for pvp but can't really compete with a very high lvl of DPS. You'd probably kill me as easily as I'd kill you but I doubt you'd have much of a chance against a 5 aps sin. If you won that fight it would be due to vastly superior skill as there's no way a spike dmg sin can compete with that kind of dps.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Graey_Rain - Harshlands wrote: »
    as there's no way a spike dmg sin can compete with that kind of dps.
    Ribstrike can royally **** an APS sin.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • VeritasXXX - Raging Tide
    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We're not hating, just pointing out this build's flaws.



    I didn't offer a build. I stated i preferredb:surrender sage and why.
  • tearvalerin
    tearvalerin Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Allilie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    just a comment on tear's opinion of pvp... what good will dps do you when you're stunned? in any sin on sin fight the quicker sin to let lose with that stun should always win regardless of build. Any light armor or arcane will not survive the ensuing onslaught unless the build itself is so fail it's rediculous.

    Comments on pvp /pointless.
    will you quit with trying to debunk my facts with pure fiction its rather tiresome, your arguments make no sense, and its like you're trying to think of one tiny little hole you can jump through that isnt there. you have 2 moves that avoids stuns, genie moves that avoid stuns, and potions that make you stun immune. if you are getting overtly stun locked, you fail. pvp scenarios make plenty of sense for anyone else reading who DOES enjoy pvp, and could probably use this information in choosing.

    @veritas, your reasons why you prefered them were totally off based :|. there is no 30% damage, itsless than 1% |:.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    last name ever, first name greatest
    like a sprained ankle, i aint something you wanna play with.
  • VeritasXXX - Raging Tide
    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    its 15% as stated above.
    i said 30% was a mistake these things do happen
    Quit attacking everyone its a game forum not a boxing match turn your epeen down noone cares.
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide wrote: »

    its 15% as stated above.
    i said 30% was a mistake these things do happen
    Quit attacking everyone its a game forum not a boxing match turn your epeen down noone cares.


    Just let him be "right".

    He *needs* to be "right", otherwise he'll be stomping and screaming around this thread like a colicky toddler.

    sage is a poor choice,

    everyone and their cousin knows you love your little white fairy, now go play with your flowers and butterflies in eden.

    that 'sage' sin is extremely ignorant. they dont even know the difference between the two masteries.

    look whos talking, everything veritas said was wrong. you already came into the picture wanting to be a sage, why did you even bother making this thread if you knew you wouldn't have been convinced otherwise. since you have no comprehension on how to differentiate what is fact and what is some idiot's assumptions, then you have no place here.

    will you quit with trying to debunk my facts with pure fiction its rather tiresome, your arguments make no sense, and its like you're trying to think of one tiny little hole you can jump through that isnt there.


    And in addition to being "right", he insists on being a complete jack@ss about it, as a condition of being "right".

    When he just could have said this:

    ill put it in a way asterelle says it:

    Quote:
    I don't really agree that sage is fail. I do think that those who go sage typically did so overestimating the benefits.

    Putting it that way wouldn't allow him to "command" you to go Demon, nor would it allow him to gloat over us all in this thread.

    RedMenace

    \carefully pats tear on the head, watching for the spines and tiny, sharp teeth
    \\then calls Animal Control
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide wrote: »



    I didn't offer a build. I stated i preferred sage and why.
    Gaah! I got two threads mixed upb:surrender
    My apologies...
    tearvalerin wrote: »
    will you quit with trying to debunk my facts with pure fiction its rather tiresome.

    Welcome to the internet, it's serious business here. No one care's about your QQ toward another player's argument methods, just as you don't care about what I'm saying in the post (or any post by anyone else for that matter).
    Yes, your e-peen is huge and you protect it zealously, we all can see that. However, maybe if you posted some data and/or statistics to back up your so-called "facts," you might not get as many haters.
    Following your same logic, I could say that I'm the sexiest man alive and tell everyone who argues with me that anything they say against me isn't a fact and everything I say is a fact, even though I provide no data to back it up.
    QQ moar or GTFOb:bye (Not that I or anyone else care about you, this is the internet remember? What's more, this is a forum)b:shocked
    -Thinks to himself- Wait...if no one cares, why am I posting this...? Oh well...I must be an idiotb:chuckle
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Accidental double post removed my user
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Allilie - Sanctuary
    Allilie - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    tearvalerin wrote: »
    will you quit with trying to debunk my facts with pure fiction its rather tiresome, your arguments make no sense, and its like you're trying to think of one tiny little hole you can jump through that isnt there. you have 2 moves that avoids stuns, genie moves that avoid stuns, and potions that make you stun immune. if you are getting overtly stun locked, you fail. pvp scenarios make plenty of sense for anyone else reading who DOES enjoy pvp, and could probably use this information in choosing.

    You're quite dense. You're making a series of assumptions and passing them off as fact. First off you assume said player has said genie skills, second off you're assuming said player gets a chance to use said anti-stun/hindering moves. There are such things as cool downs you know.

    End of my point: If i stun you before you get a chance to do anything else i will have a move advantage on you. Even if you cleanse it (geneis are frowned upon in duels imo) i can still react and put up a defense against you trying to do the same thing before you get said chance to do so.

    You should read previous comments of mine, i don't do pvp :P. You're trying to convince me with what? I do random duels for fun and that's it. So all this pvp nonsense is just bleh.

    Finally i didn't say i was certain of being sage when i started this thread. The whole purpose was for a comparison so that i could look at the skills themselves. You've derailed and misread the intentions of this thread ^^. The entire point of my character is to enhance pve playability. To you that seems to be tanking and being stand alone hero :/. I have no desire to tank or being a light armor godess. I'm aware of aggro issuesand whatnot. You also misread my opinions on bp and other things as self beneficial. Perhaps what i meant is that i like the idea of providing squad mates with that 3%? Neh? My sin isn't about me, it's about supporting my squads. I have formed my own 'opinion' there i said it, so no comment from the peanut gallery about facts -.-, that this is a better way to do it. Who are you to say right or wrong on another persons gaming experience? Have you ever played a sage sin? Nope i think not. You can't possibly know the difference first hand.

    I let you run free and you've gotten rather personal and insulting, so the buck stops here. Thank you for the entertainment tear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    wow, sin forum can be quite combative. i do think all the rampant arguing highlights a few things other people mulling the same decision might find useful, i know i did. OP's perspective is refreshing, that everyone does not follow such strict build philosophies, everyone has a different level of dedication to this game and whether you spend $0 or $50 a month one must just follow their own path. it will be fine as long as you take all the things said in here under consideration.

    btw, that sax'roll was hilarious

    \dons teflon flame-proof coat
    \\reconsiders his sin build
    \\ Typh is GOD~! *kill all 4-life*
  • SteelStar - Heavens Tear
    SteelStar - Heavens Tear Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A few obvious things:
    Demon has more DPS *edit: and higher spike damage depending on class*
    Sage has better survivability
    I didn't read the whole thread, but this is true for all classes.
    It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
    My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
    VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    uh i did, i posted a prime example with math to show that the difference is negligible. considering you are attacking 25% faster than a dude in similar gear, its only common sense sage is going to do less. why even criticize if all you are doing is raging over me insulting you in another thread :P?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    \\ Typh is GOD~! *kill all 4-life*
    Everywhere I turn here in the forums, I see you exalting meb:shocked
    I need to return the love someday...b:surrender

    Oh, and welcome to the sin forums, things can get pretty ugly hereb:chuckle
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • RauI - Archosaur
    RauI - Archosaur Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    so 90% go demon?
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    RauI - Archosaur wrote: »
    so 90% go demon?

    From what I've seen, yes.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • VeritasXXX - Raging Tide
    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    Father_gold - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wow, sin forum can be quite combative. i do think all the rampant arguing highlights a few things other people mulling the same decision might find useful, i know i did. OP's perspective is refreshing, that everyone does not follow such strict build philosophies, everyone has a different level of dedication to this game and whether you spend $0 or $50 a month one must just follow their own path. it will be fine as long as you take all the things said in here under consideration.

    btw, that sax'roll was hilarious

    \dons teflon flame-proof coat
    \\reconsiders his sin build
    \\ Typh is GOD~! *kill all 4-life*



    Welcome to the sins forums, here E-peen is over 9000.b:sad
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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    VeritasXXX - Raging Tide wrote: »


    Welcome to the sins forums, here E-peen is over 9000.b:sad
    So sadly true...
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
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