Using HF on Bad DD's
Comments
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Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »Good for you. There are plenty of clerics out there who don't think lots of damage is a waste of time and would gladly change targets a few times for a faster run instead of being lazy and only healing one person. Those are the clerics who find high DD parties because not only are they not lazy and actually use their brain, they are less uptight cuz they don't have a stick up their ***. And just for the record, you refusing to heal is the same as being too slow to heal because the end result is the same. I am not advocating the intentional hogging of aggro when it's not necessary, but attitude like yours is truly pathetic in that you seem to think the party revolves around what the cleric wants. I'm glad you think you are a good cleric, but with that attitude, I wouldn't think so, and I have a WIDE selection of very good clerics to choose from.
Also, I'm from HT.
No I'm fine with aggro switch if it's a high DD squad that knows what it's doing
but if the squishies aggro a phys boss, they're being stupid, and I'm not going to worry about healing them.
Look, it's one thing if you have a pro squad and someone occasionally steals aggro. It's even fine when someone occasionally dies because several people draw aggro at once because of a one in a hundred instance where we dont coordinate correctly.
But if you're a psychic with black voodoo, and you insist on dropping nukes on a AOE phys mob and bringing it out close to all the other squishies so everyone else can die, then I'm not healing/rezzing you. And you're certainly not being invited back.0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »You steal aggro once I slap you on the wrist.
Steal it twice? If i'm squad leader, you're kicked.
And if I'm playing my cleric...
If you steal aggro, you better have some good apoth and a charm, cuz I'm not healing you.
And if (when) you die from the boss? Your going to town, because I'm not ticking my spirit charm/ wasting perfectly good mp on a revive for an idiot. You can walk back.b:bye
And what if it's the tanks fault...?
I actually watched an entire squad of DD's drop one by one in a bh59 once to an incredibly bad barb who must have not used ream even once. What's even worse is they were all arcane/archers and the cleric had ample time to save them, but decided to act the superior @ss and refuse to heal. At the third DD I decided to save things, went tiger, reamed and invoked hoping for party rez then heals, but none came, so I had to roar and pass off to the barb. 3rd DD went down. Cleric then gives a "fking nubs" comment and drops squad.
Most of the time, all it takes is a simple request to control their damage. 95% of the time this actually works and the DD listens, and 95% of the time no one bothers with the polite request and just instantly rages at the first genuine mistake instead.
And as a BM I will never HF if another DD is going overboard. Most of the time I keep Myriad and Domain ready instead. My main priority, regardless of my class, is finishing the job effectively with the least deaths. After the instance I never have to run with that DD again anyway.0 -
ofc it's different if it's the barb fault. But most of the time, it's a DD actually TRYING to aggro steal so they can feel good about doing the most damage.0
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DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »No I'm fine with aggro switch if it's a high DD squad that knows what it's doing
but if the squishies aggro a phys boss, they're being stupid, and I'm not going to worry about healing them.
Look, it's one thing if you have a pro squad and someone occasionally steals aggro. It's even fine when someone occasionally dies because several people draw aggro at once because of a one in a hundred instance where we dont coordinate correctly.
But if you're a psychic with black voodoo, and you insist on dropping nukes on a AOE phys mob and bringing it out close to all the other squishies so everyone else can die, then I'm not healing/rezzing you. And you're certainly not being invited back.
If someone is intentionally trying to be stupid they will never find their way into my squad again anyways.
DDs who can't tank but try to take aggro are stupid. I won't disagree with you there. But attitude like this?DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »You steal aggro once I slap you on the wrist.
Steal it twice? If i'm squad leader, you're kicked.
And if I'm playing my cleric...
If you steal aggro, you better have some good apoth and a charm, cuz I'm not healing you.
And if (when) you die from the boss? Your going to town, because I'm not ticking my spirit charm/ wasting perfectly good mp on a revive for an idiot. You can walk back.b:bye
That's stupid too. Nothing justifies intentionally getting people killed, whether you are a DD or a cleric.0 -
One thing to point out- my main is a wiz (dd)
my alt is a cleric
I'm hard on DD's cuz I know what I'm doing in a squad. I know what bosses I'm more liable to aggro steal because of elemental affinities and the such. I always check barbs for blessings and gear so I can remove my blessing/space attacks appropriatly.
I play my DD well.
And I'm usually sympathetic to clerics because I know alot of squads can make stupid mistakes and it usually ends up a squad wipe where I lose full exp and they just ***** for 5min while I run back so they can lose their .1%.
But I'd also like to point out: on both accounts, I havnt had a squad wipe in ages. You can say I'm acting like I have a stick up my ***, and whether that's true is irrelevent, because it simply works. I get through instances quickly with no squad wipes and minimal deaths (deaths usually being the occasional idiotic squishy DD).
So don't try and say I don't play my cleric well. I do play it well. We just have a difference in opinion on how to operate a squad.0 -
EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »So, how many people out there enjoy having a random DD trying to take aggro off of the boss tank? I know I find it amusing. Usually it goes something like this...
Archer : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage,Thunder Shock, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Sin : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Wolf Emblem, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Um, wtf? Why the hell would the Archer use Thunder Shock? If they wanted DPH, they'd go for Take Aim or Deadly Shot, neither of which is affected by Thunder Shock. Also, using Relentless Courage only to use a skill isn't exactly optimal because skills ignore attack speed.
As for the sin, I doubt that they'd do it in that order. Most likely Wolf Emblem -> Spark-> Relentless. Also, a sin that parades their 10,000+ damage crits is obviously an idiot, because sins aren't supposed to have high DPH, but high DPS.
Oh, and as for what comes to getting killed by stealing aggro: A sin would be able to take a 2-3 hits due to Focused Mind and Deaden Nerves. During that time, they should be able to use Shadow Escape, which resets their aggro. Any sin who doesn't do this isn't worth a penny.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
You are mistaken. I don't care to make assumptions about how you play your cleric. You attitude in post I quoted sucks. Maybe you meant it to be more specific to only refer to DDs who do stupid things in order to enlarge their e-peen, in which case it would be slightly more acceptable except for the fact that your wording still sucks because GRATS you have just generalized all DDs into the same idiot group so you can ridicule and blame them.DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »One thing to point out- my main is a wiz (dd)
my alt is a cleric
I'm hard on DD's cuz I know what I'm doing in a squad. I know what bosses I'm more liable to aggro steal because of elemental affinities and the such. I always check barbs for blessings and gear so I can remove my blessing/space attacks appropriatly.
I play my DD well.
And I'm usually sympathetic to clerics because I know alot of squads can make stupid mistakes and it usually ends up a squad wipe where I lose full exp and they just ***** for 5min while I run back so they can lose their .1%.
But I'd also like to point out: on both accounts, I havnt had a squad wipe in ages. You can say I'm acting like I have a stick up my ***, and whether that's true is irrelevent, because it simply works. I get through instances quickly with no squad wipes and minimal deaths (deaths usually being the occasional idiotic squishy DD).
So don't try and say I don't play my cleric well. I do play it well. We just have a difference in opinion on how to operate a squad.
As a DD I have just as much right to prejudices as clerics do. You may not like aggro bouncers, I don't like clerics who are too high and mighty to res and heal.0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote:I'm a giant QQing noob that is lazy
See thisDeora - Lost City wrote: »I see no issue in letting a DD take agro IF they can tank it, if they don't let them die, don't res them till boss is dead as punishment.
^ Follow that and all will be well
Works so damn well its funny, let the DD that stole agro tank it or die and not get the kill, simple as that, you are making it overly complex b:surrender0 -
one problem with letting the DD tank it.
If I don't heal them, they almost certainly die
If I do heal them, then they may die anyways if they were gonna be 2 hitted anyways. In which case, the mob aggros to me as healer, which is bad cuz that could mean squad wipe.
Upon realizing this, the other DD's will attack the mob to save me, which usually leads to a huge amount of aggro bouncing as the DD's differing dps comes into play, and it's only stopped once the barb can aggro the mob, which can be tough to do if the mob is running around chasing the ranged dd classes as they aggro bounce.
Simply put, if you don't have the capacity to tank it, don't aggro steal it, because I'd rather skip all the above and just let you die.
Oh and the reason I don't rez fail DD's- their stupidity usually leads to me dying, and when I go to town I get full exp loss for doing nothing wrong, while they get .1% despite messing everything up.
The full exp loss no doubt teachs a better lesson than the 5min wait for the cleric to get back so they can lose .1%.0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
Oh and the reason I don't rez fail DD's- their stupidity usually leads to me dying, and when I go to town I get full exp loss for doing nothing wrong, while they get .1% despite messing everything up.
The full exp loss no doubt teachs a better lesson than the 5min wait for the cleric to get back so they can lose .1%.
This is where we differ. There's no point in being an *** and making them town for their stupidity if you're never going to party them again anyways. Rather than trying to make the server bend to my way of playing I just don't play with people who don't fit. It makes me less of an *** than you, with a lot less stress on my part.
It's that simple. You don't need to make any high and mighty post about booting people and forcing them to town. It doesn't make you look cool. It makes you look self-centered.0 -
If I was concerned about looking cool I wouldnt be playing computer games, ijs b:chuckle
and I don't find my way stressful at all. in fact, my way makes a point of getting rid of stress factors lol.
and making the server bend to me? I know you think I'm a big deal and everything, but really I'm not. My being an *** doesnt make the whole server sway, sorry to burst your bubble b:shutup
on the topic of bubbles- you can think of my playstyle like that. In my own little bubble of my own little server in my own little squad I have a bubble. and no fail DD's (or for that matter clerics/barbs) are allowed in it. I have a long friendslist of people I can squad with that I know play their char well, and I get my instances done quickly and pain free.
I play my way, you play yours.
I havn't flamed the way you play once yet. You might say there's nothing to flame, but believe me, anything can be flamed
been a fun back and forth but i g2g to bed b:bye
I guess we can pick this up tomorow if you think there's anything left to be said, but tbh I feel we've covered everything there is to cover and anything else is just beating a dead horse0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »I can't read
Read what I said again, and do it carefully or do I need to say it nice and slowly like I'm reading to a first grader?0 -
I love seeing big numbers, but if I know that I can't handle it, I usually won't go all out and hope for something bigger than my personal XXXk (yes, 3 x's. Irpro) crit. I have tanked nob before and let me say this...he hurts. But I lived. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Better known as Destini, also known as _Yvi.
ty Nowitsawn.
I dunno if I'm coming or going some days...b:shocked0 -
Ivy_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »I love seeing big numbers, but if I know that I can't handle it, I usually won't go all out and hope for something bigger than my personal XXXk (yes, 3 x's. Irpro) crit. I have tanked nob before and let me say this...he hurts. But I lived. b:victory
I think this is a better winner0 -
If dd are intent on taking aggro, I just let them keep it seeing as they seem to want it so much. Claw users ... I'm usually just in human form dding.
When they cry at me for not keeping it, I just say, "I'm and average geared tank barb, when u demon spark, debuff etc in the time I've used 1 flesh ream what to you expect? A good dd is the dd that maximises it's damage without taking aggro from the tank, regardless of it's stature. You sir ... need I say more?"
And the gear reference for the blunt people - my +7 gx wont keep aggro as good compared to +10 nirvana for example. Tank barb = min str. You get the idea :P Funny I still get squads with the same people that don't mind me tanking, and lord and behold, they are a better dd.
Most pretty much shutup or try to fight their cause and fail.
b:kiss0 -
Ivy_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »I love seeing big numbers, but if I know that I can't handle it
If every DD thought like this squad wipes would be far and few in between b:thanks0 -
Deora - Lost City wrote: »I see no issue in letting a DD take agro IF they can tank it, if they don't let them die, don't res them till boss is dead as punishment.
^ Follow that and all will be well
i follow that rule all the time when im playing all my characters (even wen im not on cleric) if a dd takes agro and i tell them to calm down and let the tank build it a bit and they still dont listen and they die i tell the cleric to not rez them untill after boss is dead0 -
X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »If dd are intent on taking aggro, I just let them keep it seeing as they seem to want it so much. Claw users ... I'm usually just in human form dding.
When they cry at me for not keeping it, I just say, "I'm and average geared tank barb, when u demon spark, debuff etc in the time I've used 1 flesh ream what to you expect? A good dd is the dd that maximises it's damage without taking aggro from the tank, regardless of it's stature. You sir ... need I say more?"
And the gear reference for the blunt people - my +7 gx wont keep aggro as good compared to +10 nirvana for example. Tank barb = min str. You get the idea :P Funny I still get squads with the same people that don't mind me tanking, and lord and behold, they are a better dd.
Most pretty much shutup or try to fight their cause and fail.
b:kiss
I think I squaded with you once for a BH59 run. Was on drake and we were playing Arggo tag XD
But personally, If i'm tanking that dungeon the barb or whoever else is there going "But i can get arggo" better **** or i'm gonna drop squad and beat the **** out of them >:(
As for when I have a barb in the group, before we even get to the boss I'm saying in squad chat "I'm going to give you 5 seconds before I jump in with DD, if you don't get enough arggo to hold it in that time frame then i'm sorry but i'll be tanking the dude. I hope you understand that." Most people will and the cleric knows that if the barb suddenly loses arggo it's because I just nabbed it and to switch healing to me because that barb ain't getting it back.0 -
-- A Bad DD is that one who hits like wet toilet paper ... Getting agro: every member in the Squad has agro, only the ones doing more damage happen to get More agro, call it a glitch and Blame the cheap programing and lack of common sense from the Devs -- b:bye0
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one thing u have to notice is if you see a dd in your squad using decides or hh 100, whether there is a barb in the squad or not, the dd is going to get argo, one way or another. These days servers are full of people who have them and if you are dumb enough to buy claws and think sparking will not draw argo from the barb, you deserve to die.
Back when i had a half decent 2.86 aps i have never met a barb who can keep argo off. So the point is, if you want to draw argo, be prepared to tank, similarly if someone in your squad says they will probably be tanking, a cleric's job is to make sure he doesn't die.0 -
the whole squad doing more % damage of your hf amp > then you dealing double damage.AP classes are a real butt pounding...0
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