Using HF on Bad DD's

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

So, how many people out there enjoy having a random DD trying to take aggro off of the boss tank? I know I find it amusing. Usually it goes something like this...

Archer : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage,Thunder Shock, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Sin : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Wolf Emblem, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Psychic : *Uses Black Voodoo, Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Wizard : *Uses Undine Strike, Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Blademaster : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!
Cleric : *Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Seal Skills, Sparks* XXK CRIT! WOOO!

They celebrate the moment they take aggro from the tank!

'LOL' 'Awesome! See that?' 'Sweet! XD'

And....then, they complain about taking hits.

'Fail barb!' 'Noob tank!' 'Stupid nubmuffin!'

I think it's time for people to stand up and put the DD's back in their places. Why is a BM complaining about this? What do you care? You're one of those DD's.

False. I also moonlight as a tank. It's fun, but I run into DD's that intentionally try to take aggro. However, it gets truly annoying when I am a DD and I see someone try to steal aggro from the Barb. Just think of what happens when the boss, that AoE's starts chasing an archer through the middle of the rear support group. Bye bye to all the squishies.

There is a solution! Yes! A solution!!

Debuff the target and let the DD die. You heard me, folks. I am advocating the genocide of the DD's that try to cause party-wipes.

Simplest way to do it is to scream for Heaven's Flame. Yes! Shout at your local BM to use that dreaded dragon of fire. Is there a sin nearby? They will probably use Sub Sea Strike instinctively. Seeing a BM use HF kinda does that to people. OMG DAMAGE!!! NUMBERS!!!

Anyone ever seen this happen?

Toxic - Dreamweaver

You forgot veno. b:cry

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

The likelihood of a veno taking aggro is reduced by the fact that they tend to send their poor pet in to take hits, first.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

there are some bad barbs though....not all but some.

this actually happened on my bm when he was abt 78.

me: stole from barb on ofo on auto atk (using HF on 30 sec cooldown)

at drake me: removed jones blessing before boss started....stole aggro.
me: moved away, switched from dark flash to annihilator of souls started attacking again when figured the tank had aggro.....stole aggro.

seriously?

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Psychic : *Uses Black Voodoo, Wind Dance/Relentless Courage, Sparks* XXXK CRIT! WOOO!

fixedb:chuckle

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there are some bad barbs though....not all but some.

this actually happened on my bm when he was abt 78.

me: stole from barb on ofo on auto atk (using HF on 30 sec cooldown)

at drake me: removed jones blessing before boss started....stole aggro.
me: moved away, switched from dark flash to annihilator of souls started attacking again when figured the tank had aggro.....stole aggro.

seriously?

OI! When that happens, you take it like a man! Tell him to tank or gtfo. If he is the leader, take the squad with you. >.> Nine times out of ten, people stick to those that don't suck.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OI! When that happens, you take it like a man! Tell him to tank or gtfo. If he is the leader, take the squad with you. >.> Nine times out of ten, people stick to those that don't suck.

not when u also have a cleric that cant seem to switch targets. If I have a decent barb I DD hf on cooldown. if its a really crappy barb and its obvious before we get to the boss I steal aggro at the beginning and keep it (2 sparking takes care of that).

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

not when u also have a cleric that cant seem to switch targets. If I have a decent barb I DD hf on cooldown. if its a really crappy barb and its obvious before we get to the boss I steal aggro at the beginning and keep it (2 sparking takes care of that).

I've said it before and I will say it again. If I can take aggro from a fail barb, I will. And I will make sure they know they suck before, during, and after I do it. =_= ONLY if they fail. The rest of the time, I support them.

Deora - Lost City

I see no issue in letting a DD take agro IF they can tank it, if they don't let them die, don't res them till boss is dead as punishment.

^ Follow that and all will be well

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there are some bad barbs though....not all but some.

this actually happened on my bm when he was abt 78.

me: stole from barb on ofo on auto atk (using HF on 30 sec cooldown)

at drake me: removed jones blessing before boss started....stole aggro.
me: moved away, switched from dark flash to annihilator of souls started attacking again when figured the tank had aggro.....stole aggro.

seriously?

I had to use TT70 sword +1 with level 3 mastery once... it was THAT bad.

And I tanked most of my BH59s with AoS, didn't have enough dex for Dark flash back then.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

Higher DD numbers = Dead Boss quicker, IJS =D If they take aggro, pray to god you live and hope you got a cleric that knows what they doing.... Or if you're a two shot kill... Just wait for a res and pray you get it before boss dies. But then again, MOST DD I run with by now know, that Tanks are limited in their aggro skills and if they don't want aggro they watch themselves. I think intentionally trying to steal aggro on mobs and bosses DD can't tank and die on, is a lower leveled thing (or people that leveled so fast they didn't learn their class).

and for the record, I've stolen aggro from a barb and from my pet on multiple occasions... Especially on Bosses with a level Pet and other players damage is scaled accordingly...Hitting a 120k Crit on BH59 Earth Boss, and aggro is as good as mine no matter whats tanking it. So, I wouldn't count out a Veno in the stealing aggro dept. I seen it more then once in BH69 too (not me that time)

lightdragon999

win dance only affects ATTCK SPEED NOT CHANNELING so it's only use ful for archers,BMs and sins. relentless courage pfft frenzy ftw frenzy+blessing+Chill of the deep

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

Oops. My bad, I meant Leaf Dance. That annoying tornado of **** animation that causes me to lag and gives extra crit rate. b:surrender When I see it, I want it to stop.

Azura - Lost City

Deora - Lost City wrote: »

I see no issue in letting a DD take agro IF they can tank it, if they don't let them die, don't res them till boss is dead as punishment.

^ Follow that and all will be well

I like the idea.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

I'm pretty sure you're not using the word genocide as it should be...

Anyway, i've always opossed this type of object lessons in much the same way i oposse the "let me tank" attitude of some DDs... Let's get it straight.

It's the Cleric's call who gets to tank, that's it. He's the one ultimately responsable for keeping the tank alive and whoever he feels is the best option, even if he's wrong, goes. As a possible tank all you can do is volunteer for the job, perhaps argue why you would make for a better choice, or turn it down if you know you can't do it. Other than that is not your choice to make, and forcing the cleric to accept you as a tank, by stealing aggro, only makes you a noob. Now, if the designated tanker drops the ball and you can do the job then congratulations, you have saved the day.

Now, nine out of ten times i've seen the main tank loose aggro, and i keep a close eye since i'm usually ready to use Threaten, is the DD's fault. It's gotten so ridiculous Clerics now are used to it, half of the times i've volunteered to tank 59 i'm told we absolutely need a Barb because there's already a Sin or Archer in squad and apparently wasting an extra 20-30 mins looking for a tank is a far better choice than actually daring to ask a DD to manage his/her aggro. "They can't" Clerics will tell me as if speaking of children with a learning disability...

A DD's job is to manage his/her dps output in as effective a manner as they can manage WITHOUT stealing aggro. Before you presume to teach others how to play you should do your own job... However letting the offending DD die puts the squad at risk, boot the offender out the second the boss drops but don't you dare put the squad at risk. Two wrongs don't make one right and this isn't a for or against issue, everyone should be working towards making the run as safe and efficient as posible, if this means dealing with a jerk Cleric making the wrong choice, or a jerk DD trying to show off, then you grin and bear with it until the job is done, then blacklist them or give them a piece of your mind for all i care. If you're going to get "educational" mid run, then you're the greatest threat to the squad and it is you that should be dealt with...

TempleSlave - Lost City

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*Uses Wind Dance/Relentless Courage

You think everyone uses LEAF Dance and Relentless Courage? Wow, you are noob.

Leaf Dance is a waste of stamina. 2% crit is meaningless for DPS.

Relentless Courage as a DD skill? lol It's useful for a BM desperate for interval. That's about it.


Try Frenzy + Extreme Poison.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

TempleSlave - Lost City wrote: »

Try Frenzy + Extreme Poison.

And then draw aggro while your def is at 0.

Would make for a good laugh b:laugh

ImReallyWhyt - Heavens Tear

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there are some bad barbs though....not all but some.

this actually happened on my bm when he was abt 78.

me: stole from barb on ofo on auto atk (using HF on 30 sec cooldown)

at drake me: removed jones blessing before boss started....stole aggro.
me: moved away, switched from dark flash to annihilator of souls started attacking again when figured the tank had aggro.....stole aggro.

seriously?

nah tank prob wasnt reamin properly..when my tank was at that lvl no one my lvl and a lil above could not take aggro from me.Not all are fail tanks most are misguided in their skills or lack of knowledge.

TempleSlave - Lost City

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And then draw aggro while your def is at 0.

Would make for a good laugh b:laugh

The OP is suggesting that DD take aggro and die, correct?

OP also suggested that Leaf Dance + Relentless Courage would help steal aggro... Frenzy + Extreme Poison will give you much higher DPS/DPH.

crunchycat

I suspect the biggest confusion from aggro stealing DDs is the notion that Barbs can hold aggro. They can't. The class isn't designed for it. Barbs have a few skills to steal aggro but not hold it.

This means that if a DD want's a barb to hold aggro then it's HIS responsibility to not do too much damage. The other option is to find that rare breed of DD barb. They are typically higher level, will out DPS everyone in the party, and often don't need healing. Of course they might not even need your help so you should not count on finding one.

EbonyBlood - Heavens Tear

TempleSlave - Lost City wrote: »

The OP is suggesting that DD take aggro and die, correct?

OP also suggested that Leaf Dance + Relentless Courage would help steal aggro... Frenzy + Extreme Poison will give you much higher DPS/DPH.

(/)_-) I'm not saying that the DD's should all take aggro and die. Nor am I suggesting that those are the only skills they use. I'm saying that that is what I see most often. I ran my BH, earlier, and everyone around me used Leaf Dance. My sister-in-law uses Relentless Courage so she can attack between her healing.

_Grim_Reaper - Harshlands

at low levels, argo stealing is an issue but once you hit lvl 100, it becomes a fact of life. The NUMBER of aps sins, bms and archers exceed the number of non aps ones. 95% of nirvana runs are done without a barb, at lvl 100 most people consider barbs as debuffers or buffers ( not including hh 3-3 tho). Having 2 or 3 4 aps bms and sins in a squad makes for argo switching very common, but unless you have unrefined unsharded gear, taking a few hits before the cleric notices should not be too much of a problem.

khaili

Was helping a faction member with her fb29 yesterday when a lvl49 barb begged me to add him to the squad so he could do his bh. I took off my blessing and was mainly just using venemous but at lvl75 of course i stole aggro, which isnt a problem for me because i can easily manage my hp on a boss of that level.

Problem is he chucks a tantrum about me stealing his aggro, was i supposed to handicap myself by just amping so he could go play hero or something? lol

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

You steal aggro once I slap you on the wrist.
Steal it twice? If i'm squad leader, you're kicked.

And if I'm playing my cleric...

If you steal aggro, you better have some good apoth and a charm, cuz I'm not healing you.
And if (when) you die from the boss? Your going to town, because I'm not ticking my spirit charm/ wasting perfectly good mp on a revive for an idiot. You can walk back.b:bye

Lenore - Harshlands

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

You steal aggro once I slap you on the wrist.
Steal it twice? If i'm squad leader, you're kicked.

And if I'm playing my cleric...

If you steal aggro, you better have some good apoth and a charm, cuz I'm not healing you.
And if (when) you die from the boss? Your going to town, because I'm not ticking my spirit charm/ wasting perfectly good mp on a revive for an idiot. You can walk back.b:bye

If I take three hits without getting a heal, I make a snide remark.
If that happens again and I'm squad leader, I boot the cleric from my squad and find a better one.

If you're my cleric you better be on the ball or I'll just find a better one, and there are plenty of better clerics out there if it takes more than three hits for you to see "oh look, this person is taking damage."

See how much of an ******* I sound like? That's what you sound like.

Iulius - Heavens Tear

Sounds to me that most of you punish the DDs for taking agro wile in dungeons most of you complain that it takes to long to finish. The barb is an awsome class not the main problem is at high lvls are so meny DDs that take agro from him that clerics even the average ones know how fast they need to swich betwen DDs to heal.
To answer someone above : NO not the cleric decides who tanks it but the player that know he can do the job properly and keep the agro on him (even that is a barb bm sin archer etc) so if you go thinking that a cleric decides that be my guest doing nirv and others where boss random agro players to see how fail as a cleric you are.
And the last point until 90s it was just wow i stole agro from barb but above 90 most of the time i holded the boss whit my fist, its just the way things are there is no point blame someone instead of admit that and move on.

volst

Maybe you guys need to start bringing veno/psy for the reflect buffs and stop bringing all bm/sin squad then complaining about losing aggro.

LifeHunting - Lost City

Sorry but I can't really say much here.

If i get arggo it's because I go "Ok i'm tanking this." in squad chat before I do it. (This works for my dude on both tanks my lvl and lvl 100 ones, it just requires knowledge beforehand)

After annoucning i'll tank I run up to mob, pull out fists begin to build up chi like a madman, double spark, hit TE on my genie and pound away at the boss.
With my dude having just under 2.0 aps, he can easily hold arggo from any tanks my lvl and if I double spark at the beginning of the boss with a lvl 100 tank (barb usually) I will be playing arggo tag, which ends in charm **** for me since the healer usually gets confused like hell.

But Arggo tag is always fun when i'm charming and the I know the tank. Annoys the rest of the squad but we have fun

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

If I take three hits without getting a heal, I make a snide remark.
If that happens again and I'm squad leader, I boot the cleric from my squad and find a better one.

If you're my cleric you better be on the ball or I'll just find a better one, and there are plenty of better clerics out there if it takes more than three hits for you to see "oh look, this person is taking damage."

See how much of an ******* I sound like? That's what you sound like.

sorry but I don't like it when people waste my time.
Btw, this wasn't a problem before hypers/oracles. Nowadays you got alot of people who don't know how to play their class, and I'm jus letting them know that regular PvE isn't like killing wicked pirates.

And when I'm playing my cleric, I AM on the ball lol.
Besides, idk what it's like on harshlands, but on RT we have a WHOLE lot of assassins, a bunch of psys/archers/bms/venos, and afew barbs/wizards/clerics. When it comes to barbs and clerics, people can't be too picky because only 1/6 of all the classes can heal, until endgame only 1/6 of classes can tank (some exceptions of course), but 4/6 (2/3) of all classes can DD- wait, actually all classes can DD. So if you're not playing DD well, then there is NO reason to keep you around since DD is a dime a dozen.

LifeHunting - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

sorry but I don't like it when people waste my time.
Btw, this wasn't a problem before hypers/oracles. Nowadays you got alot of people who don't know how to play their class, and I'm jus letting them know that regular PvE isn't like killing wicked pirates.

And when I'm playing my cleric, I AM on the ball lol.
Besides, idk what it's like on harshlands, but on RT we have a WHOLE lot of assassins, a bunch of psys/archers/bms/venos, and afew barbs/wizards/clerics. When it comes to barbs and clerics, people can't be too picky because only 1/6 of all the classes can heal, until endgame only 1/6 of classes can tank (some exceptions of course), but 4/6 (2/3) of all classes can DD- wait, actually all classes can DD. So if you're not playing DD well, then there is NO reason to keep you around since DD is a dime a dozen.

I now remember the reason why I avoid the two new *coughghostcough* servers.

It's because of players like you who think they know it all about their server.

Lenore - Harshlands

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

sorry but I don't like it when people waste my time.
Btw, this wasn't a problem before hypers/oracles. Nowadays you got alot of people who don't know how to play their class, and I'm jus letting them know that regular PvE isn't like killing wicked pirates.

And when I'm playing my cleric, I AM on the ball lol.
Besides, idk what it's like on harshlands, but on RT we have a WHOLE lot of assassins, a bunch of psys/archers/bms/venos, and afew barbs/wizards/clerics. When it comes to barbs and clerics, people can't be too picky because only 1/6 of all the classes can heal, until endgame only 1/6 of classes can tank (some exceptions of course), but 4/6 (2/3) of all classes can DD- wait, actually all classes can DD. So if you're not playing DD well, then there is NO reason to keep you around since DD is a dime a dozen.

Good for you. There are plenty of clerics out there who don't think lots of damage is a waste of time and would gladly change targets a few times for a faster run instead of being lazy and only healing one person. Those are the clerics who find high DD parties because not only are they not lazy and actually use their brain, they are less uptight cuz they don't have a stick up their ***. And just for the record, you refusing to heal is the same as being too slow to heal because the end result is the same. I am not advocating the intentional hogging of aggro when it's not necessary, but attitude like yours is truly pathetic in that you seem to think the party revolves around what the cleric wants. I'm glad you think you are a good cleric, but with that attitude, I wouldn't think so, and I have a WIDE selection of very good clerics to choose from when I want a party.

Also, I'm from HT.