Sage/Demon for Venomancers

124

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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I guess it depends on what you are doing most Venos go Sage.It comes down to playstyle or how you play your Veno do you use foxform most of the time if so go demon if just nuking go sage.I think that is how most decide on it but don't quote me on it.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    i almost never use fox form xD
    i think ill go sage then... it makes more sense... and i like the sage fairies better anyway b:shy
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  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I guess it depends on what you are doing most Venos go Sage.It comes down to playstyle or how you play your Veno do you use foxform most of the time if so go demon if just nuking go sage.I think that is how most decide on it but don't quote me on it.

    Demon isnt just for foxform, and sage isnt just for nuking power. IMO, demon is actually better for nuking power. especially with the 89 skills, and the reduced cooldowns. I mean which seems better for nuking? Demon venomous scarab by reducing the target's wood def by 30% or sage version by having a 20% chance to gain chi? All in all, I think Demon is about attack power and Sage is about conserving as much chi as you can. (If you've noticed, alot of sage skills are all about conserving chi)

    As for ppl who are deciding weither they wanna go demon or sage, what i did (and what alot of ppl do) was sit down, look at the skills on ecatomb, and write down each one with its description. Then, tally up how many demon skills you like better, and how many sage skills you like better. Which ever one has the most skills you like the best, that's the path you should choose. This tally should include master Li's technique and mozai's taunt, Just simply the veno skills.
    >.<
  • __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

    As for ppl who are deciding weither they wanna go demon or sage, what i did (and what alot of ppl do) was sit down, look at the skills on ecatomb, and write down each one with its description. Then, tally up how many demon skills you like better, and how many sage skills you like better. Which ever one has the most skills you like the best, that's the path you should choose. This tally should include master Li's technique and mozai's taunt, Just simply the veno skills.

    I like that idea... ill tally the skills i like as soon as i get to that lvl... still like 15 lvls away xD
    its good to think ahead tho b:cute
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  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Demon isnt just for foxform, and sage isnt just for nuking power. IMO, demon is actually better for nuking power. especially with the 89 skills, and the reduced cooldowns. I mean which seems better for nuking? Demon venomous scarab by reducing the target's wood def by 30% or sage version by having a 20% chance to gain chi? All in all, I think Demon is about attack power and Sage is about conserving as much chi as you can. (If you've noticed, alot of sage skills are all about conserving chi)

    As for ppl who are deciding weither they wanna go demon or sage, what i did (and what alot of ppl do) was sit down, look at the skills on ecatomb, and write down each one with its description. Then, tally up how many demon skills you like better, and how many sage skills you like better. Which ever one has the most skills you like the best, that's the path you should choose. This tally should include master Li's technique and mozai's taunt, Just simply the veno skills.

    You should also consider how obtainable some of the skills on there are. There's no point in choosing one path if you can't afford half of the skills you like.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You should also consider how obtainable some of the skills on there are. There's no point in choosing one path if you can't afford half of the skills you like.

    Very bad advice, but I can see why. At Lvl 100, BH sometimes pays out 2m coins, 50 mirages, or 8 US. Coin comes so much faster the higher level you are. The game tells us that the choice we make is what we're stuck with, and prices tend to drop considerably over time.
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  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I meant if the two paths are pretty close in the pros department. If both seem good for somebody's playstyle then I don't see the point in choosing one that costs 5 times more, or choosing the path where the skills you like most are almost impossible to get. Guess that's just me?
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Neither is going to cost 5x more.
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  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    demon bramble = 15m+
    sage soul degenaration = 15m+

    the other usual skills cost about the same for both paths.
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  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Let's say the sage skills you like most are noxious, summer sprint, and soul degen, and the demon skills you like most are venomous, ironwood, and fox form. If it comes down to those six being your deciding factors, I wouldn't see the point in choosing sage when the skills you like most are going to be much more difficult to obtain (unless, ofc, you've already got enough for the one you like most or you aren't just a casual player and don't mind spending more time to farm for them.) There is a pretty big difference in the cost for those, although I don't think the sage ones are out of reach... but then there are some 9x players who are barely getting by, and I think they'd find more enjoyment in choosing the cheaper path. Not everyone plans to make it to 100, and the casual player doesn't usually have 40+ mil to throw around for skills.
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  • _Leiian_ - Heavens Tear
    _Leiian_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    coins at highest lvl arent a problem. the real problem is getting skills when u choose sage/demon, at 89, where if u're not gambling, I dont think u could have coins to afford books and learn skills.
    Thinkin as a future demon veno, I've to say that demon foxform is just 400k, so I'm good, cuz I need it to run faster in rb. ^_^
    [RB = Level up faster = Reach 100 faster = Reach bh 100 faster = Herc veno more op in pve. *_*]
    Why go demon?
    I'm not chi addicted, love zhennin, for chi there are apoc poths and skill faster with -chan gear, so I dont need 50 chi free every 60 sec, and other skills that gives me free chi.
    Lucky scarab sage is better for pvp, but I prefer demon for DD.
    Soul degeneration sage is so nice to solo tts, but doesnt matter if i've demon amp.
    Sage purge is good for tw, but demon purge is perfect for cosmo in 2-2 and 2-3.
    Bramble guard demon is better than sage one.
    Demon foxform.... :Q__________________
    I love zhenning. So demon nova is better according for me. Sure, I need lvl 99 to learn it, but doesnt matter. I yet loved my nova lvl 8 in rb gamma, where mobs sealed dont run back. And aoeing making 3k each mob in the first wave, aint bad. Seal/stun for 7 sec gives a good chance to kill them in the meanwhile, with a good squad. More time I could stun, more I'm happy. Nova + Lucky scarab + Stunning blow = More :Q__________ in pvp. 16-18 sec max of stunning + dmges + chance to amp and kill.


    Someone says that sage is better for pve and demon for pvp. According to me, either sage and demon are good for both.
    If we think about the best istance for exp in all PWI, we must talk about RB delta. Where demon foxform and demon summer sprint help too much.
    And this is pve.
    Sage purge isnt useful for pve, but nice in TW, that's pvp.

    So, sage and demon depends on who uses them and on what skills a player wanna learn.

    - If everyone could learn and have all what he/she needs in this game, this should be the perfect game. But takes too long have all. So, all depends on person who plays. -
  • MissAvril - Heavens Tear
    MissAvril - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Thanks for the guide it was really helpful
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You should also consider how obtainable some of the skills on there are. There's no point in choosing one path if you can't afford half of the skills you like.

    Affording the skills would be no problem for me. I dont mind working for the pages of fate or old book pages to make the skill books. I've also got a really nice veno friend that working on getting her demon books, and she's been giving me duplicates of the ones she already has. So, I have 5 demon books right now. And even though it takes hours, I can farm eden for more books.
    >.<
  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You should also consider how obtainable some of the skills on there are. There's no point in choosing one path if you can't afford half of the skills you like.

    I was going to say that your point isn't a good idea because you will always be able to earn coins, but you will never be able to change your culti path. But on current development...b:surrender
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Is this what the fuss is about:

    "Introducing the ability to change your cultivation path from Demon to Sage, and vice versa."

    -Says cultivation path: not skills, not fairy. My guess is us sages will have Harpy Wraith as a quest mob now. =s
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  • Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear
    Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    When you change from demon - sage/sage - demon, you lose all your level 11 skills (goes back to 10) and you get the opposite fairy, whether you keep the current fairy you have (89/99/100) I have no idea, but if you switch you lose all the level 11 skills you have.
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  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Even if you managed to keep your lv 11 skills, you won't be able to use them anyways due to the cultivation level requisite to use them. :(
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  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I think it would be neat to have an inbetween. It probably wouldnt be as balanced though, but it'd still be nice cause then you could learn the sage skills and the demon skills you like without having to choose one or the other.
    >.<
  • BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver
    BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    This guide is rly good and rly helpful but i still can't sleep all nights thinking which path to take. Nightmares don't let me go to bed. I dream I choose one path and it wasn't the right one and then I blame myself to death. b:shocked

    Yes, i know u can change from sage to demon and from demon to sage but at LVL100 b:sad I don't even know if i'll keep playing 'till then and it's not free to swap ur cultiv b:surrender

    So, I made a list of each sage skills i like and which demon... sage won! Then i made a new list with the main skills i use... sage won again but i find some demon skills more helpful than sage ones and some sage ones more helpful than demon ones.

    First i was think of going demon 'till i started reading different threads then i was like "i'll go sage no way" i started asking friends here and there some say sage is for pve demon for pvp it depends on ur play style other say the opposite...@.@ I've been in squads with both sage and demon venos. It somehow seems sage deals more dmg or it's was smth in the venos build. o.O

    I like demon spark and demon fairy more than sage ones but if skills r **** then no point b:beatup My faction tells me go demon but it somehow seems wrong even though i want to... I like pvp and i also like pve i solo tts and i hear it's better to go sage to do that I rly dunno wht to do If some1 can help me somehow decide which is better PLS DO SO!!! i want to sleep DAMN IT!!! >.<
  • SeaStorm - Heavens Tear
    SeaStorm - Heavens Tear Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Sage vs Demon....how I made my decision

    1. ignored the fact of PvE vs PvP

    2. read all the skills

    3. looked at my play style...then compared to skills....ie what skills benefit my play style the most???

    4. compared to my personal veno build...

    5. decided to go sage...I prefer consistancy with my damage skills not reliance on might hit might crit

    6. sage skills that "might/chance" something are ones that make those a bonus...ie sage lending hand % to send spark w/o using one, venomous % to gain additional chi

    as for the option to change to demon....never crossed my mind.
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  • MindCrime - Harshlands
    MindCrime - Harshlands Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    It depends on your playing style and what your goals are in game.

    I went demon and have never regretted it.

    The ONLY time I ever wished I was sage was in TW for the extra pdef in fox form, which is the only place I am 90% of the time in fox form.

    Both sage and demon have advantages and disadvantages.

    Good luck.
  • BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver
    BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Ty guys! ^^ I'm still confused though but i have 4more lvls and atm i don't lvl up so much so i will try to find the right path for me. b:shocked and i hope i do xD I was sure of going demon but some info made me think for sage and many ppl r pushing me from both sides and i can't think anymore @.@ If some1 opens the sage/demon topic i get frustrated and they stop :D Ty again b:thanks
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Stop listening to people and check out the differences yourself: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php
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  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    For PvE in this game, it doesn't matter which route you take. The most important skill for PvE is pet heal, and it doesn't have a sage nor demon version. So, it depends on PvP. And the only four skills that really matter is myriad rainbow/fox form one, purge and lucky scarab, you can faceroll the other skills (warning: you might die in the processb:laugh). Ironwood can also be consider if you feel like it. For purge, it doesn't matter since if more than one person is fighting you, the only option is send nix and run ;D and there is no need to purge twice. The two myriads are exactly the same for sage and demon. And the most important skill, lucky scarab, the sage version actually gives you time after u hit to do something. 1sec more of stun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 sec less of cooldown time. For PvP, demon ironwood is actually a bit more helpful, but you have the instant cast myriad rainbow, thus making it useless. Oh yeah, sage triple spark >>> demon triple spark imo, but not really relevant since bramble hood gives you 15 sec to do what the hell ever you want and takes one less spark.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    for those who said to take a look at the skills you use. it has nothing to do with the skills you used for 90 lvls. a few examples:

    i guess none is taking advantage of the speed when it comes to pvp/tw, you can run faster than mounts. none is taking advantage of 'free stun' summer sprint combined with ironguard powder for another 12 sec survivability combo. none used soul degen since there is only one boss at high lvl that regen like crazy yet sage version is changing a lot. none of the ironwoods are better in squad on single target, ppl actually learn to debuff at higher lvl (devour/dimensional seal). amplify, depends of target... you can see barbs getting hard to kill in tw while sage version might be more useful on softer targets. another example of useless skills till lvl 11 is frost scarab from lvl 1 to 10. again if you dont tw you probably never used crush vigor but if you get lvl 11 of it, might be useful in pve too
  • SeaStorm - Heavens Tear
    SeaStorm - Heavens Tear Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I guess since I'm don't kite from fights I don't really see the necessity for the short period of increased speed when you move from mage -> fox -> mage. I survive quite well in TW barring +10 weapons that are a one hit KO. Personally I'll probably PK at some point outside of TW, but atm I'm not, got other things I'm working on. Even one on one in cube pk rooms (sans pet), the last time I died was because the fight lasted long enough my bomb's timer ran out, ROFL.

    It comes down to personal play style/personal build. I don't think there's a "preferred" way you have to go based on your build/armor or if you want to PvP or PvE. There's positives and negatives to both sides depending on how you look at it or how another person looks at it. What's one man's trash is another man's treasure.
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  • Tigrisbarb - Archosaur
    Tigrisbarb - Archosaur Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Hy. my sister is asking me for what is better, sage veno or demon veno? Pls write me backb:beg
  • LadySam - Heavens Tear
    LadySam - Heavens Tear Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Demon veno ftw . I`m demon veno and i love it . The venomous scrab skill is realy cool and demon fox form . Demon veno = dmg b:victory . Sage is prefered if you`re develouped fox form or you use lot of chi
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Went sage and do not regret it. I rock out with interval instead of channel and prefer having my machine gun fox form. Also the skills mostly consistently do what they say rather than occasionally.
  • Muffinbabez - Dreamweaver
    Muffinbabez - Dreamweaver Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I love this guide b:laugh
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