If the devs really want to fix TW, this is how.
Siiobhan - Archosaur
Posts: 51 Arc User
If the devs really want to make TW a competive fun thing for all and not just big cash shop guilds, they could implement the following changes and it would actually revolutionize TW back to the fun part of the game it was in the early days of PWI.
1. All charms are disabled during TW. (this is the key change of all changes, without it TW will always be dominated by those that feel the need to wave their e-peens around and are willing to pay real money for it)
2. Create a good reward for winning the battle itself, rather than holding the lands. (my suggestion is XP and Spirit) (vristion makes the great suggestion of Reputation and/or drops from the Crystal itself)
3. Fix the glitch on the Nix. (self explanatory to anyone who has ever TWed)
Really rather simple. These three changes would make TW more competitive and also generate more interest in TW. That said, since disabling charms means no advantage to cash shoppers I doubt it would ever happen.
Please chime in with your thought PWI .... don't let TW die.
1. All charms are disabled during TW. (this is the key change of all changes, without it TW will always be dominated by those that feel the need to wave their e-peens around and are willing to pay real money for it)
2. Create a good reward for winning the battle itself, rather than holding the lands. (my suggestion is XP and Spirit) (vristion makes the great suggestion of Reputation and/or drops from the Crystal itself)
3. Fix the glitch on the Nix. (self explanatory to anyone who has ever TWed)
Really rather simple. These three changes would make TW more competitive and also generate more interest in TW. That said, since disabling charms means no advantage to cash shoppers I doubt it would ever happen.
Please chime in with your thought PWI .... don't let TW die.
Post edited by Siiobhan - Archosaur on
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Comments
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Disbaling charms = massive revenue loss for PWE, so you can toss that one out the door.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »Disbaling charms = massive revenue loss for PWE, so you can toss that one out the door.
True, but it will still be if people don't buy charms for TW with the current system.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »True, but it will still be if people don't buy charms for TW with the current system.
A good point, but I doubt if it will come to masses of people going uncharmed. There will certainly be more uncharmed people than before, but those who really want to be charmed likely will find a away to be charmed. The poor cata barbs are gonna have a hell of a time with it tho b:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida0 -
Siiobhan - Archosaur wrote: »If the devs really want to make TW a competive fun thing for all and not just big cash shop guilds, they could implement the following changes and it would actually revolutionize TW back to the fun part of the game it was in the early days of PWI.
1. All charms are disabled during TW. (this is the key change of all changes, without it TW will always be dominated by those that feel the need to wave their e-peens around and are willing to pay real money for it)
2. Create a good reward for winning the battle itself, rather than holding the lands. (my suggestion is XP and Spirit)
3. Fix the glitch on the Nix. (self explanatory to anyone who has ever TWed)
Really rather simple. These three changes would make TW more competitive and also generate more interest in TW. That said, since disabling charms means no advantage to cash shoppers I doubt it would ever happen.
Please chime in with your thought PWI .... don't let TW die.
If charms where disabled they loose money on people not buying charms for TW so that wont happen.
Most people in TW are 100+ and dont care that much about exp <.< So unless its like a full Frost Run on Hyper, 3-4mil exp its kinda pointless.
Only glitch i know about nixes is the fact that you have to re-summon it for Flesh Ream/skills to work (but maybe they fixed that already). It also gets stuck on ground all the time, but its the same outside of TW to for nix users. If you mean flesh ream or the pet dmg itself as a bugg i kinda disagree. Nixes only tickles compared to players in TW <.<
They sure wont 1 shot you for 20-30k.0 -
Honestly I think people will still buy tons of charms for PvE (TT, FC etc.) but the fact that TW would be a more even playing field would generate more total PLAYERS of the game therefore more people buying fashion, mounts, pack etc. ... therefore more income overall.
Clearly they have no clue to economics when they take out the source of a great deal of spending in this game, which is TW guilds paying game coins to the fighters, which in turn gets used to buy gold in AH for various uses. The gold has to be purchased by someone to be sold in AH.
I know I currently can't afford to buy gold with real money, but I sure bought it with coins earned from TW pay. I know our cata barbs used most of the pay they got from TW to buy the charms they use.
Microtransactions ... PW has cost themselves a lot of these by changing TW pay.0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »True, but it will still be if people don't buy charms for TW with the current system.
A lot fewer is going to buy anyway. Barbs being the main target. The elimination of charms would also open up more need for actual stragety in TW rather than zurg, kill kill kill, and whomever cash-shopped the most wins. without that crutch, even a OP shopper could die with error.
Anyway, the point would be... to benefit the game as a whole. Find somthing that still keeps TW alive, cash-shoppers will always be cash-shoppers. But will they still be more in to cash shopping for no reason?
If they gave some reward for a win, in sums of Xp...i mean xp stands for EXERIENCE, and experiencing war should warrant that right? Spirit points along side that as usual..
Reputatiion maybe? would help each individual earn their way to awesome gear.
Item drops from the kill? I mean the crystal itself could hold some elemental power, and have materials that would help individuals progress,0 -
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
Only glitch i know about nixes is the fact that you have to re-summon it for Flesh Ream/skills to work (but maybe they fixed that already). It also gets stuck on ground all the time, but its the same outside of TW to for nix users. If you mean flesh ream or the pet dmg itself as a bugg i kinda disagree. Nixes only tickles compared to players in TW <.<
They sure wont 1 shot you for 20-30k.
If the damage glitch isn't such a big deal, why do all TW factions have a lower level requirement for venos with nix, than for venos without one?
On HT server I played a BM in TW and those flaming chickens tore me up ... I could easily shrug off the attack from a sawfly or foxwing.0 -
If they gave some reward for a win, in sums of Xp...i mean xp stands for EXERIENCE, and experiencing war should warrant that right? Spirit points along side that as usual..
Reputatiion maybe? would help each individual earn their way to awesome gear.
Item drops from the kill? I mean the crystal itself could hold some elemental power, and have materials that would help individuals progress,
Great suggestion, updating the OP to reflect it.0 -
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »If charms where disabled they loose money on people not buying charms for TW so that wont happen.
Most people in TW are 100+ and dont care that much about exp <.< So unless its like a full Frost Run on Hyper, 3-4mil exp its kinda pointless.
They sure wont 1 shot you for 20-30k.
Not all TW factions are lvl 100+ and I would step out on a limb and say most are maybe 10% 10x, so xp/sp would benefit alot of people in regards to reward. And in the regard they "wouldnt care" are they careing anymore any less now? Also it would encourage people of ALL levels to try their hand at TWing.
I am sure a lvl 100 would love some reputation tho heh?0 -
Charm breaks any real chance of this game having any sense of fairness (PvP) or challenge (PvE). Sadly, they get alot of money from making you burn your charms. PWI, be it PvP or PvE, would be alot more entetaining without the existence of charms. So yea, if it could be rendered ineffective at least during TW warfare, would create a bridge into better gameplay and making it possible for a larger amount of players to participate.PWI:
"Free to play. Pay to win"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Your poll is terribly biased... I noticed two of the changes you included adress the alleged "advantage" cash shoppers get. I won't discuss Ream but on charms i would say, independently of how players acquire them, that they're currently a part of top tier PvP gameplay and to artificially introduce a handicap does not lead to more competitive TW, independent of PWI's lost revenue. Your suggestions are one sided as you're using the recent changes to push for the "more inclusive TW" agenda. I'm far from a heavy CSer but i don't believe what you propose is fair. How about banning Nirvanas or anything above a +6 refine? People work hard for their gear and their consumables, wether irl or ingame, and deserve to have them available in competitive activities.
As for point number two, i cannot think of any other change that would actually make TW more accessible to the masses... Now, i don't agree at all with the changes made to the bidding system but the real issue here is TW is no longer a rewarding activity, and this almost seems as an attempt by PW to get rid of it... If the issue was the influx of coins this can be fixed by changing the rewards but the measly amount of mirages that are now the prize is really far from the solution... As for the rank IX stuff it's a lottery for something not even implemented. What is needed is a better reward, i agree, something that does provide a real incentive to TW, else things are unlikely to change and those factions already holding territory are likely to continue the landowners...0 -
they do something like that with xp and such in jade's castle war. the money you get for being the current holder of the castle isnt even enough to repair the defences which dont regain every battle. but you get xp for both sides, the winner gets discounts from npc shops and better refine rates from the enchanter and maybe a few other things its been awhile since i played. I love the idea of no money rewards only rep/xp/spirit. While I like the idea of disabling charms i dont see that happening.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Your poll is terribly biased... I noticed two of the changes you included adress the alleged "advantage" cash shoppers get. I won't discuss Ream but on charms i would say, independently of how players acquire them, that they're currently a part of top tier PvP gameplay and to artificially introduce a handicap does not lead to more competitive TW, independent of PWI's lost revenue. Your suggestions are one sided as you're using the recent changes to push for the "more inclusive TW" agenda. I'm far from a heavy CSer but i don't believe what you propose is fair. How about banning Nirvanas or anything above a +6 refine? People work hard for their gear and their consumables, wether irl or ingame, and deserve to have them available in competitive activities.
As for point number two, i cannot think of any other change that would actually make TW more accessible to the masses... Now, i don't agree at all with the changes made to the bidding system but the real issue here is TW is no longer a rewarding activity, and this almost seems as an attempt by PW to get rid of it... If the issue was the influx of coins this can be fixed by changing the rewards but the measly amount of mirages that are now the prize is really far from the solution... As for the rank IX stuff it's a lottery for something not even implemented. What is needed is a better reward, i agree, something that does provide a real incentive to TW, else things are unlikely to change and those factions already holding territory are likely to continue the landowners...
The players who work hard to get good gear would still be harder to kill, and easier to be killed by. The difference is that CHARMS and Legendary Pets are basically pure cash shop items. Personally I am NOT in favor of removing the coins for TW profits. I honestly think it hurts small guild more than large guilds. The problem we are facing now is that a lot of F2P players who grind hard all week to get gear and skills are now basically shut out of TW because they can't afford charms without TW pay. One of our best squad leaders and officers of our guild, who has been there from the start is leaving guild because he CAN'T AFFORD the cost of playing in TW. So one way or the other, if they are not going to reward winning guilds with tangible assets, then they need to disable the charms and make it fair and fun for all.
The proposal of a different reward system entirely is because there has to be some incentive to TW or else it will be 12 on 12 instead of 80 on 80.
For me personally, TW is the reason I play PW. Without it I honestly find the game rather boring. Kill mobs, Kill Mobs, Kill mobs. Very little chance of dying. No real penalty for dying. Grind Grind Grind. TW provides an actual challenge in the game.0 -
Just get rid of jones blessing thats a start , I dont mind having to charm for TW it how its always been,With new swstem you dont get paid in coin so i cant afford charms for TW,so PW sells less and PW loses.
It would be better if and one faction could only hold a certain amount of land . TW against a good faction if fun, ive done many 3 hour TW, and yes i burned charms like crazy.
If the problem is peeps doin fake bids , make faction have a certain amount of peeps in order to be a biding faction.
oh well ive ben doin TW for 9 months , will miss it, but u wont see me in it again.0 -
That's a rather leading poll, thread wont be taken seriously unless the poll is made un-biased, mmk?0
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I think the current change was a huge step in the right direction (since less coin is being brought into the game) and they really only need to make one more change to TW. They need to remove the mirage stones as a reward for TW and replace them with something that people really want (high demand items) that do not sell for much to merchants, but sell for a lot to other players. If the item rewards for TW are good enough people will be happy to sink their coin into TW for a chance to get those items. TW best serves the game when it is a huge coin sink, but it will only be a huge coin sink if the rewards are desirable enough for people to be willing to participate.
I understand your desire to remove charms for TW, but anything that involves reducing PWI's income without a way to increase it equally is not going to happen. What really needs to be done to curb inflation (even more than the removal of coin rewards for TW) is making it so that best of luck tokens cannot be traded for 10 million coin bank notes, but unless they decide to add new items that best of luck coins can be traded for that will make them just as desirable as they are now, we will probably continue to have our economy ruined by 10 million coin bank notes. Still, getting rid of the income from TW is a step in the right direction. Now they just need to fix the best of luck tokens and we can see some real progress.0 -
erethizon1 wrote: »I think the current change was a huge step in the right direction... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
You didn't even mention the change to BIDDING in your post.
FFS. STOP FORGETTING THAT BIDDING WAS CHANGED, AND ITS AWFUL.0 -
hurr durrrrrr taking out charms will make it easier for the underpowered non-cashshoppers to win TW. Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jesus Christ you people are dense.0 -
No charmed cata barbs = whoever defends, instantly wins.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
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Siiobhan - Archosaur wrote: »3. Fix the glitch on the Nix. (self explanatory to anyone who has ever TWed)
I'm a bit biased on this one, because I play a venomancer, but there are a few things people forget about or ignore when they complain about this bug. (I do admit it's a bug. I just don't think "fixing" it is a good idea)
1) When is the last time you saw a venomancer with a sawfly and yelled to your squad-mates, "@*&%! Somebody get this sawfly off me!" When is the last time you feared a venomancer with a sawfly? Never? The phoenix might be overpowered, but without one, the venomancer is (horribly -- see below) underpowered. You fix this bug, and no venomancer will ever want to come out of safe zone for PvP.
2) It's even more dramatic now with pack gear and +10-12 refines. I can't refine my phoenix. I can't put grade 12+ shards in my phoenix. I can't Nirvana my phoenix. I can't get interval gear for my phoenix. As everyone else has grown more and more overpowered, the phoenix has stayed the same. As a result, the venomancer has gone from a feared, overpowered PvP-er to a support player. Again, you fix this bug, and no venomancer will ever want to come out of safe zone for PvP.
Edit: I'm assuming you mean bleed. If you mean the fact that the phoenix evidently doesn't know how to change altitude and fly up or down hills, yeah, that sucks but as TigerLily pointed out isn't limited to TW.0 -
Pattoe - Raging Tide wrote: »You didn't even mention the change to BIDDING in your post.
FFS. STOP FORGETTING THAT BIDDING WAS CHANGED, AND ITS AWFUL.
Okay, since it is important to you I will address that as well. The bidding was also an improvement to TW. I will repeat, TW best serves the game when it is a coin sink. I include the new bidding process as part of that. The change to TW helps in two ways, it stops giving coin as a reward for winning and it makes participating in TW more expensive (that would be the bidding side of the equation). If not for bidding TW would not be a coin sink. The removal of a coin reward for winning is not a coin sink. A coin sink requires money to be removed from the economy not simply not added. The change to bidding was part of the improvement. The rewards for TW simply need to be changed so that people are willing to lose a lot of money on bidding.
I feel I need to address one other common complaint I see from a lot of the people that hate the change to TW. They say that TW is expensive because TW uses charms. The problem is that charms cost zero coin. Charms cost gold. There is not a single NPC merchant that sells charms. All charms come from the cash shop. This means that coin gets brought into the game from the old TW rewards, but it is not actually taken out of the game when people buy charms (other than the incredibly minor coin fee that is taken when you exchange coin for gold at the auction house). Coin is a horrible reward for TW because it comes into the game, but is not removed (it simply is traded back and forth). If most people in TW used potions purchased from an NPC then coin might be a reasonable reward since at least then the coin would be removed from the game when the potions were bought, but as long as cash shop items are what people use coin is a reward that simply serves to ruin the economy. This game is in desperate need of more coin sinks and the new bidding system is one of those sinks. Now TW just needs desirable enough rewards that people are willing to sink that money into bidding (and mirage stones probably are not going to cut it). I would love to see cash shop gold given as a TW reward instead of coin, but that is highly unlikely.0 -
NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »hurr durrrrrr taking out charms will make it easier for the underpowered non-cashshoppers to win TW. Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jesus Christ you people are dense.
QQ, I can't play without god mode! Stragety would wellll, make me have to think!b:laugh0 -
Coin sink eh? Supposed to lower the gold prices? FYI, gold already up dramatically on Archosaur Server.0
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erethizon1 wrote: »More poorly thought out arguments.
The idea that the new bidding system will serve as a coin sink which will even scratch the surface of inflow and outflow of coins on the server is ridiculous.
When you've got skills, repairs, teleports, npc items (crazy stone, pots etc), cube, chips and many other things (such as bound gear, and people leaving the game) acting as a coin sink which removes 100s of millions of coins from the server each day, sometimes billions of coins if someone makes a full set of bound gear or a richer person leaves the game)
and uve got tokens of best luck, monster drops, npc selling (which ties in to mob drops) and many other things acting as coin inflow (in billions of coins per server each day)
The tw non-refundable bidding will remove 5-10mil each WEEK, about a million coins per day from a server you can easily see that non-refundable bidding will make up less that 1% of the coins which leave a server, even if bidding gets nasty on any particular week and the coins lost are 30-40mil... (I doubt it will get any higher)
Basically, TW bidding being non-refundable will not act as an effective coin-sink AT ALL, it will just discourage smaller factions from bidding and make things like fake bidding much easier (Which completely goes against the whole point, stated by PWE, of the system.)
I do think it's fairly balanced, sure, there are more coins incoming than outgoing on a server but that's offset because a server's population will be growing, people will be levelling higher, therefore repair and maintenance costs of characters will be growing so the need for more coins will be there.
Do you now see what I am saying? If you are going to argue the new bidding system is an improvement, offer a better argument than "It acts as a coin sink".0 -
Siiobhan - Archosaur wrote: »The players who work hard to get good gear would still be harder to kill, and easier to be killed by. The difference is that CHARMS and Legendary Pets are basically pure cash shop items.
Your logic entirely fails on Legendary Pets. When a player gets a +6 weapon, that payers ENTIRE damage base is boosted by that +6. A Veno is alot lower in damage directly from themself, but compensated as part of the class in damage dealt also by a pet. Veno+Pet dmg = (roughly) normal DPSer dmg. So when a Veno +6's their weapon, its affect is only on part of their damage. Basically all improvements to the Veno only affect 1/2 of themself. They'd need to be able to +6 their pet as well. Since pets can not be Refined in this game, the only way to enhance their pet damage is with Legendary Pets.
Yes when everyone is running around in 80s gear only +2ed, a Legendary pet seems out of proportion. But in TW when everyone have TT99 or Nirvana to +6 or more, the Legendary pet is on par or even below par to the enhancement the players have received. If you're going to suggest eliminating Legendary Pets, you might as well also suggest eliminating all refined gear. See how well that goes over. Legendary = refinement for pet.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »Your logic entirely fails on Legendary Pets. When a player gets a +6 weapon, that payers ENTIRE damage base is boosted by that +6. A Veno is alot lower in damage directly from themself, but compensated as part of the class in damage dealt also by a pet. Veno+Pet dmg = (roughly) normal DPSer dmg. So when a Veno +6's their weapon, its affect is only on part of their damage. Basically all improvements to the Veno only affect 1/2 of themself. They'd need to be able to +6 their pet as well. Since pets can not be Refined in this game, the only way to enhance their pet damage is with Legendary Pets.
Yes when everyone is running around in 80s gear only +2ed, a Legendary pet seems out of proportion. But in TW when everyone have TT99 or Nirvana to +6 or more, the Legendary pet is on par or even below par to the enhancement the players have received. If you're going to suggest eliminating Legendary Pets, you might as well also suggest eliminating all refined gear. See how well that goes over. Legendary = refinement for pet.
My entire point about the pets, is that they cost real money, like charms. Not to say that venos in general are OP, just that a veno with a nix has an advantage over a veno without one.0 -
Siiobhan - Archosaur wrote: »My entire point about the pets, is that they cost real money, like charms. Not to say that venos in general are OP, just that a veno with a nix has an advantage over a veno without one.
And a person with a +6 weapon has an advantage over a person without one. Both are distinct cash shop advantages. the cash shop fund ALL improvements, not just legendary pets. You better be asking everyone to go in with unrefined weapons to level that playing feild as well if you're going to think like that.0 -
I liked the suggestion about EXP/REP. That seems like a pretty legitimate reward for undertaking TW, and certainly a lot more useful than a pocket full of mirage stones...0
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Actually lack of tw pay hurt big tw guild more especially those guild holding 50%or more land. At one stage or another I was part of all big land owning guild and the pay2mil is nice tw cost me nothing . But now I'm in a smaller guild tw pay goes between 100-400k one gold charm at HT cost 1.5mil , I don't think lack of tw pay will stop me from tw
We start with nothing, it doesn't bother us at all[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0
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