If the devs really want to fix TW, this is how.

Keyven - Lost City

sadly charmed in TW I've watched NyKage and Zerhee stun aoe and drop 10-20 people while charmed and uncharmed... and the only thing I've ever seen drop them is mages like Ehee.... When you're dealing with people that can one hit you with almost any skill because their gear is +10 11 or 12... Charmed or uncharmed you're a 1hit... this is a game of ONE hit ONE kill... the regular person with +5 or 6 gear wont stand a chance either way..

Not when you have people walking around in game as mages with 15k hp buffed [Elayne]

BMs with 20k hp buffed [Nykage & Zerhee] and barbs with over 30k hp... oh not to mention Identical the assassin with +12 nirvana zerk daggers. That goes around one hitting barbs with 15-20k hp. Although he hits so fast he can drop you before you tick anyway... Charmed or uncharmmed it doesn't matter when a single aoe from a +12 rank8 mage will wipe your whole cata party..

Siiobhan - Archosaur

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Uncharmed PvP and TW... coming from an archer. lol. Yeah, you're really love that wouldn't you?

When facing an archer with similar gear, my charm ticks before I can reach them. Especially f they pull off a stunning arrow or aim low.

Charms save archers just as often. In one TW I was ganked by four BMs and a Barb that were uncharmed. I was charmed and was the last one standing. That IMO is just plain silly. No way should a light armor wearing pure dex build be able to stand in the fact of a BM with mighty axes and take multiple hits without dying.

I make the suggestion about charms not to advantage one class or the other but to take the enormous cost of TWing out of the picture:

The current reward of 150 Mirages would NPC for 1.5 Million. That would cover the cost of the towers in a TW and leave 100K left. Still means the guild would have to scrape up money for Cata Scrolls and other items like apoth, but it balances things out a bit between guilds that hold a lot of land and guild with one land or no land.

(I say this as the Leader of a guild with seven lands that wins TW in 15 minutes against all but two of the other guilds on the server. Those two beat us just as fast. Wouldn't a three hour knock down drag out be a lot more fun?)

(On HT server most of the TWs I was were also simply who has the tougher barbs with charms wins fast. Rarely did I see a case where any kind of strategy came in to play. One thing I noticed on Arch server was early on there was actually a lot of strategy in play, since we were going into TW with wide level ranges rather than all 9x and 10x. Not trying to start a war of words here, just IMO charmless TW would require a lot more thought to win, rather than just a mad zurg down lane B by both teams.)

That said, I personally thought the Ten Million per land reward was perfectly in line for TW. A guild could choose to pass out pay and/or cover expenses as they saw fit. The main issue is that a lot of fun players that loved to TW are dropping out because they simnply can't afford the cost. The charmless suggestion is to combat this problem more than anything else.

As to those that say my choice of word in the poll is baised, it's really intended to be humorous, but the truth is, all should either be charmed or uncharmed if you really want a fair fight. When one side has all charmed (either enough real life money or game coins to provide the charms) and the other doesn't, it's not even possible to have a fair fight.

I do however thank all who are participating in this thread for offering some great suggestions about rewards for TW. All I want is to see the fun continue and for the devs to do whatever it takes to ACTUALLY make it fair to all types of players on the game to be able to TW. I'd personally be happy if no land at all were involved and we could just challenge each other to "Friday Night Fights" and go to combat just for fun and bragging rights.

Keep the good suggestions coming. Maybe between us all we can find a good answer and hope the devs actually listen this time.

Pattoe - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Read the post above yours. When you're being focused your HP drops in no time, the 2 seconds a charm buys you is crucial since it gives you time to use genie/apoth to survive.



You sir, are an idiot. Either you have never been in a TW before, or you're a mage/archer.

Hey. That's mean, Even a mage like me can understand how important a charm is to a cata-puller, actually, I understand more than most since I'm the guy trying to kill the cata-pullers and I know the charm will save them several times before they are bought down, that's if they are bought down...

But without a charm what once was an indestructible barb would be nothing but a nuisance...

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear

Sigh what the OP doesn't realize is that tw in 50's-90's is NOT the same as ppl w/ end game gear. Tactics that worked a year ago DON'T work now. Sure me as a cleric have SOLOED 5-10 bms/barbs trying to kill me who were uncharmed level 60-90 while I'm SOLO protecting our crystal (a tactic I have done countless times in tw while leading tws when ganked); sometimes uncharmed, but does that mean I could do it to ppl 99+? HELL NO. Woot you are level 90 and soloed some fail melees; cz I've been doing that for well over a year against fail guilds that tried to gank w/ nub players. Just cuz you killed some nubs pre end game gear does not validate your argument. Get to end game gear and you will see EVERYTHING changes in tw when you start going up against +12 nirvana/rank8/warsoul wpns. Get to end game and then come back and talk to us.

Lenore - Harshlands

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow have some of these idiots posting ever bothered to join a good tw guild and be involved in 2-3 hr tws? No charms for tw? ROTFLMFAO I'D LOVE THAT AS A RANGE CLASS! Bm and barbs would be WORTHLESS in tw w/out charms and they STILL use more charm/die more often then almost everyone (except maybe cat clerics). Attacking guilds would NEVER win against other guilds that had half a clue and defense would be a breeze. How? Here is a quick easy roster for a defending guild. 10 clerics (buffs,rezzes, freezes, and some dd), 10 venos (pass some chi, purges, and some dd), 30 wizzies, and 30 archers. That's 80 ppl and now all you do is camp out by your towers and DARE barbs pulling cats to come to you....If bms/other barbs can't lead/be decoys/stun/survive w/out charms around the cata barbs....how the ** u think a cata barb is gonna make it to your crystal? This bs you are proposing is basically the same as duels....which is NOT PVP/TW. A 20k+ demon barb w/ +12 sac strike nirvana axes I can kite all damn day and beat in a duel. With a charm on and both of us fully buffed...sht ain't happening. Thus NOW I need tactics and assistance f/ others to take him down via purges, assist attack etc.

[Normal] Lenore: The OP is a ranged class. Clearly she does not realize the difficulties of being melee class.

The charms balance out melee and ranged classes. The enable melees to reach ranged classes, and since the ranged classes tend to have less HP, the charm won't help them as much as they would help the melee class. It's not that hard to figure out. Sure, I'm an archer, I can go for no charms. Then BMs won't be a problem for me at all! But do I think that's fair? NO.

Aeyris - Sanctuary

vristion wrote: »

Not all TW factions are lvl 100+ and I would step out on a limb and say most are maybe 10% 10x, so xp/sp would benefit alot of people in regards to reward. And in the regard they "wouldnt care" are they careing anymore any less now? Also it would encourage people of ALL levels to try their hand at TWing.

I am sure a lvl 100 would love some reputation tho heh?

I agree; whoever said that 100+ don't care about exp (even though they are 101), I find that hard to believe for the majority. 100+ get discouraged from exp because there is little for PWI to offer them exp-wise...so if TW offered intense exp (maybe 10mil+ for level 100+) and gauged it on the characters' levels, it would help everyone out. I've heard too many friends that are 100+ complain about the fact that they just. can't. level.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

No, 100+ don't level because there is no point to leveling.


Like, no one is going to level for a worthless 5 stat points. Once you hit 100:


There are no new instances waiting for you
THere are no new quests waiting for you
There are no new skills waiting for you
THere is no new gear waiting for you

JiEunxD - Archosaur

I have decided to quit this game (except for TWs) just because of this change mostly. It's pretty obvious the developers do know that changing TW rewards was not going to solve it, and that it actually was the anni packs, gold hammer, etc. that brought gold prices up. It's all part of a marketing scheme, they're trying to trick us. They're using "Fixing TW" as a excuse for their further greed to further corrupt this game.

It's simply the truth that developers do not want to fix TWs, but only generate more revenue for themselves.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

your theory about microtransactions is flawed.

First of all, tw pay isnt responsible for more players. True, people join pwi because of the ability to wage tws, but most dont even find out about pay until after they start. And more importantly: How can you miss what you never had?

and as for, "people that usually spend money on charms will have more for things like fash, etc."
Well first of all, who says they'll spend that much anymore? The money that they would spend on charms, could just as easily be spent ordering a pizza, or going to the movies, instead of on fash, etc.
And what does it matter what they spend the money on? They're still spending the same amount of money. So PWI either gets the exact same amount, or less (if people do what I stated above).

MiniST - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

No, 100+ don't level because there is no point to leveling.


Like, no one is going to level for a worthless 5 stat points. Once you hit 100:


There are no new instances waiting for you
THere are no new quests waiting for you
There are no new skills waiting for you
THere is no new gear waiting for you

Then what is that cave just north of the tide born city?b:question
Those last four lines couldn't be more wrong.... Every level has quest, and there are lvl 100 skills

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then what is that cave just north of the tide born city?b:question
Those last four lines couldn't be more wrong.... Every level has quest, and there are lvl 100 skills

You need to read the thing you quoted again. It says "Once you hit 100". Yes there's 100 skills and a 100 instance, and 100 lvl gear, but there is no 101+ instance, gear or skills. Once you hit 100, there's no point in going to 101 or beyond. Ok yes the quest part is a bit wrong, but there's no new important quests like chrono or culti anymore, and some of the 101+ quests are glitched (sage quest to head into the non-existant FB109 anyone?). Basically 100 is the "soft cap", while not the complete end of the road for levelling, you've reached a point where you can do & get everything.

Siiobhan - Archosaur

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

[Normal] Lenore: The OP is a ranged class. Clearly she does not realize the difficulties of being melee class.

The charms balance out melee and ranged classes. The enable melees to reach ranged classes, and since the ranged classes tend to have less HP, the charm won't help them as much as they would help the melee class. It's not that hard to figure out. Sure, I'm an archer, I can go for no charms. Then BMs won't be a problem for me at all! But do I think that's fair? NO.

Actually played a 9x BM in TWs on HT server. Have also played every class on the game to at least lvl 30. Charms don't work in duels but I can still take out most archers with BM in a duel. If everyone is charmed (usually the case in top level TWs) then how is it so different than if no-one is charmed? If you know how to use your genie skills and apoth correctly you can still reach that archer with your BM or Barb.

Again, the point of the OP is a suggestion to accomplish what the Devs CLAIM they wanted to with the update. It's clear that the truth is, they want to make TW a cash shoppers only game. IT's harder to see the effect probably on an older server where all the TW guilds are made up of 10x players, but on Archosaur server the fallout from the patch has been devastating. Most of the TW players on our server came here to make a server with a more even playing field, and it has been gangs of fun having TWs where the different guilds have different strengths and weaknesses. Some guilds have superior Tanks and Clerics, others have great DD and defend well. The "let's meet in the middle of B path and duke it out" strategy is not the only one employed. It's starting to become that way but still our TWs are WAY more interesting than the ones I took part in on HT server where every guilds roster looked the same.

Just trying to make a point really ... taking away TW pay takes away the ability of a non-cash shop player to use the pay they get from TW to get charmed for the next fight. My OP is really a challenge to the Devs more than anything else. They are trying to run a bunch of **** by us by claiming it will make TW more competitive when in reality it hands it to the cash shoppers. Of course, on Archosaur server at least, cash shoppers by the droves are uninstalling the game over it, so I guess they made a mistake in their thinking on this one.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Actually played a 9x BM in TWs on HT server. Have also played every class on the game to at least lvl 30. Charms don't work in duels but I can still take out most archers with BM in a duel. If everyone is charmed (usually the case in top level TWs) then how is it so different than if no-one is charmed? If you know how to use your genie skills and apoth correctly you can still reach that archer with your BM or Barb.

In TW you don't have one archer attacking you, you have about a dozen.

Lenore - Harshlands

[Sarcastic] Lenore: Yes, I know. I really like it when Bms and sins challenge me to a duel while standing in my face. Then when the duel starts they proceed to stunlock me, and in the occasion where I don't die while stunned, the sins pop invis until their cooldown is back. I'm sure it's very impressive to be able to kill archers that way in a duel, because you know, archers are very dangerous at close range.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

[Sarcastic] Lenore: Yes, I know. I really like it when Bms and sins challenge me to a duel while standing in my face. Then when the duel starts they proceed to stunlock me, and in the occasion where I don't die while stunned, the sins pop invis until their cooldown is back. I'm sure it's very impressive to be able to kill archers that way in a duel, because you know, archers are very dangerous at close range.

^ this

Its funny, a sin needs like 3-4 stuns on me to be able to kill me if they don't do it then just use genie to death / hide and keep the stunlock up.

Whenever you stun them and 1-2 hit them they QQ.

b:chuckle

Pattoe - Raging Tide

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

[Sarcastic] Lenore: Yes, I know. I really like it when Bms and sins challenge me to a duel while standing in my face. Then when the duel starts they proceed to stunlock me, and in the occasion where I don't die while stunned, the sins pop invis until their cooldown is back. I'm sure it's very impressive to be able to kill archers that way in a duel, because you know, archers are very dangerous at close range.

Shame this isn't real life where the archer woulda pulled out a falchion (http://heronarmoury.co.uk/swords/m/falchion/gallery/35.jpg) and decapitated the sin.

I love how real life archer's skeleton's are deformed due to their being so much strain put on it from being able to pull back the bow string. (over 100lbs of force with one arm, means they can swing a sword quite effectively)

I wanna see this in PWI, fishie getting gutted by archer.

Lenore - Harshlands

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^ this

Its funny, a sin needs like 3-4 stuns on me to be able to kill me if they don't do it then just use genie to death / hide and keep the stunlock up.

Whenever you stun them and 1-2 hit them they QQ.

b:chuckle

[Normal] Lenore: Let's not forget they also QQ when you run away from them, because archers were TOTALLY made for melee dueling and you're already thankful that they started the duel in your face right off the bat. I'm sure you've had this problem too as a cleric, if you sleep them and heal/run.

Edit: @Pattoe: I would LOVE to gut me some fishies

mebarb2010

Hi.. i have a idea Siiobhan that can help.

You talk about no-charm in tw, that sound interesting.. but (idk if someone tell this) but.. cost of repair can be bad xD.. the devs can set a special toward inside your base in tw when the tw ends to get a "free repair".. this can be help alot to player.. mostly to barbs, bm, etc.

Ok.. if you wanna join a tw faction.. you need spent money too.. that means that you can farm herbs.. or grind to buy pots.

Idk if is a good idea, but this can be great to help this issue with the tw problem.

Sorry my bad english b:surrender

Quilue - Sanctuary

Unless you actually have some really good hp and defense, there's no point in going charmed cuz you'd get 1-2 shot anyway. Mages these days have no problem bypassing my charm or killing me outright, and I have no problem doing the same to them. A lot of times it's almost as if the charm isn't even there. Jone's Blessing has had a huge impact, and I'm surprised people don't mention this more.

The truly rich players with vit stones and high refines, yeah charm can work for them, but even then, any mage with a decent weapon should be able to bypass no problem. Charm is like there because I'm too lazy to pot after respawn.