Multiclienting question

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

BeefJerk - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be honest, if they really want to stop multiclienting, they should make it so that it isn't so damn easy to do so.

Problem:

How can you tell people are multiclienting?

Solution:

1. Using programs that access your RAM to check up the program names.

2. Checking MAC addresses, this way you can see who is using more than one client from 1 computer.

3. Checking IPs (not so effective)

Now each one of these have its flaws:

1. Can be blocked / bypassed on several ways.

2. Not a nice way to handle things, and not as effective, someone who really wants to play would actually find a way around it (will not say it or I would be giving ideas lol)

3. Not effective at all, players playing from the same connection have the same external IP, however each has a personal Local IP (LAN could be used instead to see who is multiclienting from the same comp.)

Not to mention, you can use another computer, say its your dog's computer and get around the ban, its not as easy to fix... and yes I've got this so many times "it's my brother's computer, its my sister's, its my dad playing", blah blah blah. No real way to prove it... so basically can't do anything about it.

Yep, thats about it. As a developer of a game, I know what are the flaws of it, hexing clients, hacking clients, even making windows run two processes at once, god so many flaws, I HATE YOU WINDOWS! b:chuckle

/Gohan - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Pattoe - Raging Tide wrote: »

Damn you Hamster.
Well, im sure I read a thread with a gm saying that level 1 account for shop thing...
Maybe it was on Jade Dynasty forums?
Or maybe I'm going mad...
Afterall...
I am talking to a...
magic hamster.

I remember reading that thread as well o.o

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2010

I don't really see why one player with a collection of old crappy laptops is allowed to run more clients than any other player.

Given that you don't need any third party software modifications to multiclient PWE should reexamine their rules.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't really see why one player with a collection of old crappy laptops is allowed to run more clients than any other player.

Given that you don't need any third party software modifications to multiclient PWE should reexamine their rules.

Then again, how can you prove its not another player using that computer and not only 1 player... that is the real problem.

Banning whoever connects more than once from the same connection (IP) would lead to banning players with real brothers, mothers, sisters, friends, cousins, playing from the same connection. Which is not a solution.

Hitokeri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

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Hitokeri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

This was an official announcement by PW China on April 29, 2010.

The highlighted part basically says, "One cannot run more than SIX clients at one time."

Now laugh at that.

Pattoe - Raging Tide · July 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Your logic confooses me....
x.x"
Chess doesn't allow me to equip a pawn with an aerosword.
:<

Also Connect 4 doesn't let me equip a MP5 to one of me circles.
b:surrender

Running a shop account on BoI or JD gives the same benefits as running a shop account on PWI so why should it be allowed on those two games and not on this game, it lacks consistency.
Equipping your soldier in counter strike with an mp5 and equipping your circle in connect 4 with an mp5 gives totally different benefits so it is obvious why one is allowed and one isn't.

I'm just looking for fairness.

Also the person who said it isn't fair for someone who has a collection of old laptops to run several clients also has a really good point.

This rule really doesnt make the game any more fair.

(Also, how is buying gold more cost effective than running 2 clients? buying gold costs money, running multiple clients is free, therefore, running multiple clients is more cost effective, its also more admirable as the person is putting more effort into the game to merchant as well as playing their main character, it also improves the game's economy and creates a more stimulated and vibrant in-game market, it allows people who would usually have less interest in gold, or will have quit the game, to purchase gold with the coins they earn from merchanting and therefore stimulate gold sales from people who do buy gold, ultimately leading to more profit for PWE.)

Anyankha - Sanctuary · July 2010

Hitokeri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This was an official announcement by PW China on April 29, 2010.

The highlighted part basically says, "One cannot run more than SIX clients at one time."

Now laugh at that.

Thanks for the info. If we're allowed to use less than 6 clients, and according to what you just said it's official, then most of us don't have anything to worry about.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Anyankha - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thanks for the info. If we're allowed to use less than 6 clients, and according to what you just said it's official, then most of us don't have anything to worry about.

*face-palm* PW China and PWI (our version) are ran and managed by a totally different crew. We're not allowed to multiclient on this version, and it's been said like 20 times already.

Until the administrators / gms / devs, post on these forums or state on our version's T.O.S. that it is allowed, then we will be able to do it, UNTIL THEN we're not.

Hitokeri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*face-palm* PW China and PWI (our version) are ran and managed by a totally different crew. We're not allowed to multiclient on this version, and it's been said like 20 times already.

Until the administrators / gms / devs, post on these forums or state on our version's T.O.S. that it is allowed, then we will be able to do it, UNTIL THEN we're not.

What you say certainly is true. But I just want to let everybody here aware of what the official parent company's stance is on this matter.

fulgida · July 2010

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

according to tos ur not allowed multiclient, however easy to, and loads of people do. GM's dont seem to keep track, however if som1 report and gm see you multiclient on che

Lots of people run multiple characters (like, catshops) on multiple computers, but that is not multi-clienting.

Unless you know that they are running several of their characters on the same computer you have no way of knowing that they are multi-clienting.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2010

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then again, how can you prove its not another player using that computer and not only 1 player... that is the real problem.

Banning whoever connects more than once from the same connection (IP) would lead to banning players with real brothers, mothers, sisters, friends, cousins, playing from the same connection. Which is not a solution.

The real problem is having an unenforceable rule that uses an arbitrary criteria such as the count of physical devices people own. People ignore this as the actual game allows it (elementclient.exe), GMs ignore it as there is no benefit in banning catshops and it is impossible to prove (think about virtual machines and windows emulators).

No one even knows why multiboxing is allowed but not multi-clienting. I think that GMs know its a contradiction but are too lazy to change the official policy and would rather just ignore it.

I mean really what is the problem that this rule is attempting to address? Does anyone even know?

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No one even knows why multiboxing is allowed but not multi-clienting. I think that GMs know its a contradiction but are too lazy to change the official policy and would rather just ignore it.

I mean really what is the problem that this rule is attempting to address? Does anyone even know?

we can guess. my guess is that physical machines are more cumbersome to have a dozen of than game clients on a single machine, so they bring in a practical limit on multi-character gaming through the back door that way.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Anyway, why all this chit chat, its not allowed period + lol.

We're the users, and they are the administrators of the game, so we "have" to obey their rules like it or not if you want to continue using the service.

You can multi-client if you want, just expect a ban if they catch you doing it, just don't come here QQing "why did I get banned?" and stuff like that.

Saying that, as I said before, until our version administrators state we can multi-client, we won't be able to freely / risk free do it.

So, either accept it, or leave, basically. I'm sure they will not allow multi-clienting on a single computer due to the fact that allowing the whole player base do it, the population count of the servers would increase a lot (from x2-x6. . .) now imagine if a player has 2-3 computers that are allowed to multi-client. . . that'd be x18 times the player base increase, which would lead to more whining due to the inmense lag this would cause, not to mention an increase of bots running around. Hence the chinese version has an inmense bot issue atm. Not to mention power-leveling several characters at once, and the fact that TT would be exploited, since a single veno would be able to open TT without asking for help for it.

Okay, won't waste more words on this thread since its a never-ending circle.

b:bye

frankieraye · July 2010

JD and BOI are different games with different mechanics, so we have different rules for them.

As for comparing the various versions of PW around the globe, you'll notice that each company runs the game differently based on its own views. We've always felt that multi-clienting was not good for the game here, so that's why it remains banned.

Hitokeri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hence the chinese version has an inmense bot issue atm. Not to mention power-leveling several characters at once, and the fact that TT would be exploited, since a single veno would be able to open TT without asking for help for it.

Chinese version has an immense bot issue atm... yet they are allowing for up 6 clients on the same machine. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Hitokeri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Chinese version has an immense bot issue atm... yet they are allowing for up 6 clients on the same machine. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

Rofl, simple, the more clients you're allowed to have the more people will be exploiting the game flaws, as well as botting. Not to hard to understand.

I guess they're allowing a certain amount of multi-client since they can't pretty much do anything about it? As I stated 2 or 3 messages ago.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · July 2010

fulgida wrote: »

Lots of people run multiple characters (like, catshops) on multiple computers, but that is not multi-clienting.

Unless you know that they are running several of their characters on the same computer you have no way of knowing that they are multi-clienting.

i know cos they told me they did and said how to. i cant see if every catshop / tt opening is, but alot of friends do XD

tweakz · July 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

JD and BOI are different games with different mechanics, so we have different rules for them.

As for comparing the various versions of PW around the globe, you'll notice that each company runs the game differently based on its own views. We've always felt that multi-clienting was not good for the game here, so that's why it remains banned.

How exactly is multi-clienting detected, and how is it bad? A GPU, APU, CPU, math co-processor, and more are all physical computers. A multi-core has multiple computers as well as SLI graphics. How are the connections between these parts any different than network connections, network shares, or kvm switches? Then there is the client -server model of computing. Isn't it time to clarify why it's bad and how it's detected?

And the troll that acts like they're an authority and determines computers by motherboards -pls give it up. You are no authority and no mod or gm has yet backed you up. Another cpu could be put on a daughter board.

Gwenwyn - Raging Tide · July 2010

Think the reason for the rule is due to another game that I play, where multiclienting is allowed. And many people HATE it. Because in PVP, its just not fair, when one person has 2, 4, or 8, yes, I saw someone on that game with 8 chars in their control, all the same class, high damage output caster class. 1 person has no chance against another person that has 8 accounts and 8 chars. On PVP servers on this game, people would quit the game if multiclienting was allowed. Which if they are cash shoppers, thats loss of income for PWI.

Cant mention the name of the game because its allso an MMO, but if that rule here was lifted, it would not be long till people would complain that it should be illegal to multiclient.

At least from what I heard, on this game, you can have more than one account at once, but you can only run 1 account from each computer.

And I heard that you can only have one leveling char at one time online. So having one account as a cat shop on one computer, while you have a leveling char running on another computer. That is fine.

Rolling 2 chars up to high level, as a duo in PVP, even with 2 seperate computers, might get you in trouble. Not sure, from what I heard you can have a leveling char and a cat shop char. But not 2 leveling or active control characters.

Allowing people to multiclient, for this game would do more harm than good, people would rage quit.

Plus for stuff like TW and stuff like FC and Lunar, the game is designed for squads and cooperation.

mistabwanden · July 2010

For those saying I got banned for multiclienting, that's not the case. I got banned for an accidental kill in room 1.

As for the multiclienting on BOI, here is the link.
http://boi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=122591

Don't jump to conclusions that I got banned for something I didn't do.
b:chuckle

This thread was simply out of curiosity since I've wanted to try out other games by PWI. Not because I got banned for something. I clearly know it's bannable.

Now then, my question has been answered, so this can be closed or w/e.

tweakz · July 2010

Gwenwyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Think the reason for the rule is due to another game that I play, where multiclienting is allowed. And many people HATE it. Because in PVP, its just not fair, when one person has 2, 4, or 8, yes, I saw someone on that game with 8 chars in their control, all the same class, high damage output caster class. 1 person has no chance against another person that has 8 accounts and 8 chars. On PVP servers on this game, people would quit the game if multiclienting was allowed. Which if they are cash shoppers, thats loss of income for PWI.

Cant mention the name of the game because its allso an MMO, but if that rule here was lifted, it would not be long till people would complain that it should be illegal to multiclient.

At least from what I heard, on this game, you can have more than one account at once, but you can only run 1 account from each computer.

And I heard that you can only have one leveling char at one time online. So having one account as a cat shop on one computer, while you have a leveling char running on another computer. That is fine.

Rolling 2 chars up to high level, as a duo in PVP, even with 2 seperate computers, might get you in trouble. Not sure, from what I heard you can have a leveling char and a cat shop char. But not 2 leveling or active control characters.

Allowing people to multiclient, for this game would do more harm than good, people would rage quit.

Plus for stuff like TW and stuff like FC and Lunar, the game is designed for squads and cooperation.

Sorry, but multiboxing has the same or better advantage as anything they've called multi-clienting. - Maybe let them answer as they have yet to. -Or they can just ignore this and lock the thread like so many times before.

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Third topic I've seen about this today and no one's locked it yet.

Can't we just say it's not allowed and we'll get banned if we do it and get on with our lives? b:surrender

MagicHamsta - Lost City · July 2010

Pattoe - Raging Tide wrote: »

Equipping your soldier in counter strike with an mp5 and equipping your circle in connect 4 with an mp5 gives totally different benefits so it is obvious why one is allowed and one isn't.

o.O'
It totally gives teh same benefit if me equip one of me pieces with a gun in a game of Connect 4.
b:chuckle

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · July 2010

I'm not aware of multiclienting or botting on jade dynasty or BOI, but I know it's somewhat allowed on ether saga too. http://eso-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=228851&highlight=multiclienting
Apparently its just for shop usage too. Im not sure why multiclienting is allowed there and not here, but i could understand why botting is allowed in ether saga or JD; because i know for a fact it takes a ton more of exp to lvl up in Ether saga than on this game and Im pretty sure JD is the same way. However in BOI, if you can get to lvl 20 in an hour or less and 30+ in a day, that pretty much tells you that it would take far less exp to lvl in that game. So why allow botting in that game?

Nakhimov - Lost City · July 2010

Sure is search function in here.

vristion · July 2010

Multi-clienting (i'll assume 2+accts one PC) Is somthing that has helped numerous 7+ year old games stay alive even till this day. People will pay whatever monthly fee + newest expansions every 3 to 6 months for (insert amount of toons they have here) with out a blink.

And if you look on that second cliented cat-shop, most of the time he/she will be offering what? CASHSHOP items....thousands of tokens (how many summer packs ya think he/she pay CASH MONEY TO get that many? You mean to tell me they should be banned?

So what if somone wants to build themself an INSTANT group, so when they log in they can achieve far more in an hour than they could dealing with lvl1 - 80 in a month n00bs in a pick-up group. That person will most likly spend a BUTT-LOAD of CASH to get those other characters up to his/her main's lvl, plus he/she will most likely want them to look cool, and blow more money to get the latest fashion!

And this is somehow bad? Something that could fund this game for some years? And the worry is BOTS? one client can bot alone too! to keep bots out of game, that is just a community effort on it's own.

if 1 person who once every so often spends x amount for one character is good, wouldnt 1 person spending x amount for numerous characters be GREAT?

meh,

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · July 2010

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

It's not 'unfair' advantage if everyone can do it...

Jarid - Lost City · July 2010

well The terms of service do not say anything about multi-clienting is forbidden since:

1. Everyone could eventually do it, no unfair advantage.
2. It is no third party or motification.
3. No gamedata is edited, altered or corrupted in any way.
4. Especially when using another computer, it is allowed since if not:
1. They should have banned my brother for playing together with me using a router.
2. Lan parties often play this game as 1 giant party. All under the same IP and whatsoever.

That would mean every player that has a router and a playing brother or sister needs to get banned. If multi-clienting on the same computer isn't allowed then the following issue occurs:

Imagine commonly having windows on your computer. Certain edition of windows do not shutdown internet connection or freeze the application while switching to another profile.

There is 1 sister and 1 brother who both happen to play on the same server and both have a personal profile on the same computer.

In the rules there never is stated that playing on different profiles is not allowed nor should be.

If there was, many people would be banned because the above's sample wouldn't be the first one doing this.

Either way, Revise the rules before posting more. Also get your terms straight such as 'exploiting, multi-clienting, abuse and unfair advantage'.

Also just to note, these terms can be understand differently, especially terms like, unfair, since they are relative for each person.

cheers

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · July 2010

*devs decide that multiclienting is allowed*

*next day*

*we will have a server wipe due to abuse on several instances including Twilight Temple*

*people QQ about it*

*PWE doesnt care about the QQ since they're fed up with it*

*player base drops due to this*

*PWI is removed from PWI game portfolio*

b:shocked

Don't want that to happen

Multiclienting question

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