CoA Etiquette
Aubree - Dreamweaver
Posts: 1,868 Arc User
I'd like to get an idea of what the general consensus is for CoA etiquette. I would also like to get an official stance from a GM.
So you pay 100k to go to CoA and try to make some coinage right? Once you are in and squads are made or unmade, is it ok to "steal" mobs from other players by out damaging them? Or could this be considered griefing? If it is ok to take mobs, then is it also ok to pull mobs to that squad to tick their charms, slow them down? Or is this greifing?
I am asking because the issue came up. It's a tough one. The instance is designed for the best DPS. But that then leaves out the lower damage players.
So have at it! Let me hear what you all think!
So you pay 100k to go to CoA and try to make some coinage right? Once you are in and squads are made or unmade, is it ok to "steal" mobs from other players by out damaging them? Or could this be considered griefing? If it is ok to take mobs, then is it also ok to pull mobs to that squad to tick their charms, slow them down? Or is this greifing?
I am asking because the issue came up. It's a tough one. The instance is designed for the best DPS. But that then leaves out the lower damage players.
So have at it! Let me hear what you all think!
Post edited by Aubree - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Claw your way to the top0
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Bring in a lvl 100 Barb who has top rated gear, then find 4 BM's who have 5 APS and a sin who has 5 APS w/ unlimited stealth.
You will never have another problem as long as you BB XD0 -
LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »Bring in a lvl 100 Barb who has top rated gear, then find 4 BM's who have 5 APS and a sin who has 5 APS w/ unlimited stealth.
You will never have another problem as long as you BB XD
I don't do CoA I find the event much better for me. I just wanted to see some views
So if you could answer both questions I'd love that. 0 -
Well, personally, Considering I don't do this event much.....I'd say my answer to the first one is it's fine. They are just out DPS'ing you, so no real big deal (unless they continue to do it, then it can be SS and ticketed).
The second one......It sounds like greifing to me. Considering they are pulling you (the people who aren't involved/innocent) into their fight....causing you dmg you didn't bring upon yourself by attacking it at any given time.
So.....First one is No.
Second....I'd say yes.0 -
So repetitively taking your mob would be considered griefing too?0
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Well......I don't know if I would consider it griefing as much as I would consider it harassment.
Mainly saying that because, from previous GM posts about it, if a player continously steals mobs from you that you need/require for some reason they are considered to be harassing you. This can have SS take and be attached and sent in on a ticket explaining what is going on, who the player(s) is and what that player(s) is doing repeatedly.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »So have at it! Let me hear what you all think!
On Lost City, most people do all those things and then QQ and try to get you KOS'ed if you do the same thing to them, so ... I have no idea.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'd like to get an idea of what the general consensus is for CoA etiquette. I would also like to get an official stance from a GM.
So you pay 100k to go to CoA and try to make some coinage right? Once you are in and squads are made or unmade, is it ok to "steal" mobs from other players by out damaging them? Or could this be considered griefing? If it is ok to take mobs, then is it also ok to pull mobs to that squad to tick their charms, slow them down? Or is this greifing?
I am asking because the issue came up. It's a tough one. The instance is designed for the best DPS. But that then leaves out the lower damage players.
So have at it! Let me hear what you all think!
I think your main problem is playing in a PVE server where nothing ever happens and when some breaks "barbie etiquette rules" all people start QQ.
In LostCity CoA is a boring event even with all the KS/lures, I just wish they enable PVP/PK inside CoA to make it more interesting.[SIGPIC]100% F2P Assassin[/SIGPIC]
Overclocked 100% F2P Assassin (1st lvl105 @ 22Nov2010)0 -
Yea, makes me wonder why with all the KSing/lures in there, if it is allowed, why it isnt PK enabled, even on a PVP server.
Well I have to admit I have been on both ends here, KSing and being KS'd.0 -
hell yes i want pvp enabled in coa ^^ that would be awesome and make it worth going in there again xD0
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What makes the mob YOURS? Just because you're there first doesn't give you any claim to the mob. So no, someone out DDing you would not be griefing.0
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Only thing that might be against rules, would be purposefully luring a boss over to kill off others to try and take their mob when DPS isn't workable. Had this happen to me multiple times, and haven't done it at all myself. Usually just try to ditch the boss and head back to the mob I was on. Best is when a group lured a boss to me on the mob I was on, killed someone else and took their mob, so I lured it off and took that mob from them and let the sin grab mine and theirs. They kept crying about KS, even though they griefed me and KSed someone else to get it. Up until then, none of us griefed the other, and they'll be damned before I'd let them benefit from it.
As for KSing in general, it doesn't really exist in CoA in reality. Look at the mechanics of it; a set number of monsters that isn't enough for everyone even before taking immunities into account, multiple instances are put against eachother into a battle to see who can take more orbs meaning highest DPS will need to grab the kills, and the rewards gained are increased should you win. If people didn't grab what they both could and wanted, then you auto-lose if a couple low damages camp the best bosses without being able to take it from them.
It comes down really to people being clueless. The best bosses are going to have the best geared people on them. But still people wander over because they want the drops, even though they can't efficiently get them. And many don't even bother taking the time to look around, or look things up, so they even have a clue what they are doing. First CoA I went in and did a brief look around, then grabbed a mob. Looked boss location up, downloaded a map, and used co-ordinates from database to place where the bosses likely were based off of the 3 positions I knew for a fact. By the third time I went in, already knew which routes to take, what the best kills were, tracked my damage to see what I could take, and looked at likely rewards I could expect if I won or lost.
So off of that, I have no sympathy for anyone who wanders in and plops down 100k and expects instant profit only to get nothing. All classes have a chance to get a good amount of money, and yet the arcanes have yet to actually go for the 3 boss kill that is so obviously a good place to go. Think of all the events, I've only seen them do it once, and it was half-assed. Clerics should grab wizzies and psi's and form a zhen group, with possibly a barb for pulling the 3 and at least one horsey easily doable. Quite frankly, until I see people do something that displays competence, I simply don't care about their difficulties.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
If you have to ask, then yes - you're probably in the wrong.
Harassing other players is not allowed.
Exactly whether a particular action is harassment is a judgement call - but doing it repeatedly over and over and laughing at them whilst you do it almost certainly counts.
Training mobs onto others pretty much always counts.0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »If you have to ask, then yes - you're probably in the wrong.
Harassing other players is not allowed.
Exactly whether a particular action is harassment is a judgement call - but doing it repeatedly over and over and laughing at them whilst you do it almost certainly counts.
Training mobs onto others pretty much always counts.
I haven't done CoA since the summer event started. I don't plan on doing CoA when event is over either. I'm asking because the question came up. This is what I think about it though.
If you are going to take mobs from others, don't QQ if they lure mobs onto you. I see it as it is City of ABOMINATIONS, anything goes..... or nothing at all.... so....
Im just trying to see how the rest of the community sees it, and how GM's view it too.0 -
Actually, in the rest of the game, being the first to attack does give you claim to a mob. If you're continually attacking stuff other people are already attacking, the GMs will ban you for harassing others. That's why the OP asked the question - do the same informal rules apply to CoA?Malilizi - Harshlands wrote: »What makes the mob YOURS? Just because you're there first doesn't give you any claim to the mob. So no, someone out DDing you would not be griefing.
That said, the whole point of CoA is for your instance to score the most kills and "win" that night's event. So I can understand those who view it like the Nien event. Everyone kills as quickly and as many as they can, because that's the whole point of the event - to kill 2000 invading nienlings, then the captains, then the nienbeasts as quickly as possible. There is no KSing because you're working towards a shared goal.
Sometimes it's inevitable though. Not everyone "luring" mobs onto others acquired those mobs by choice. Certain classes (namely, ones who can run fast - BMs and barbs) have an advantage at "losing" unwanted mobs. I had a BM continually try to dump a phys immune AOE mob on me in there last night. My DPS genie doesn't have Holy Path so once he succeeded, the only way for my veno to lose it was to die. I tried pulling it to some uninhabited corner so I could die, but my instance (the eventual winner) was way too crowded. One of the groups I passed was pretty rude about it and told me to "gtfo". So I just let myself die right there.Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »If you are going to take mobs from others, don't QQ if they lure mobs onto you. I see it as it is City of ABOMINATIONS, anything goes..... or nothing at all.... so....0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually, in the rest of the game, being the first to attack does give you claim to a mob. If you're continually attacking stuff other people are already attacking, the GMs will ban you for harassing others. That's why the OP asked the question - do the same informal rules apply to CoA?
That said, the whole point of CoA is for your instance to score the most kills and "win" that night's event. So I can understand those who view it like the Nien event. Everyone kills as quickly and as many as they can, because that's the whole point of the event - to kill 2000 invading nienlings, then the captains, then the nienbeasts as quickly as possible. There is no KSing because you're working towards a shared goal.
Sometimes it's inevitable though. Not everyone "luring" mobs onto others acquired those mobs by choice. Certain classes (namely, ones who can run fast - BMs and barbs) have an advantage at "losing" unwanted mobs. I had a BM continually try to dump a phys immune AOE mob on me in there last night. My DPS genie doesn't have Holy Path so once he succeeded, the only way for my veno to lose it was to die. I tried pulling it to some uninhabited corner so I could die, but my instance (the eventual winner) was way too crowded. One of the groups I passed was pretty rude about it and told me to "gtfo". So I just let myself die right there.
Thank you for putting that into perspective for them. I just want to add one more thing into the mix, since the topic of "whose mob is it anyway?" came up.
It has already beed stated, by GM's I believe, that the first person at an oracle mob has rights to it first, a line must be formed after him. How would that factor in?0 -
I believe GMs have stated that KSing is not a bannable offense. Mobs belong to whoever does the most damage. What is bannable is harassment which KSing can be the basis of.
Given that the mobs and time is limited I do view CoA more like the nein event or a legion where the objective is to kill as much as possible in as short a time as possible. Having mobs tied up by slow DD is bad for a city and means that city will lose.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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To all the posts above me, Seriously HTFU.
its an event where you are competing for mobs, if someone out dps's you and gets the drops get more DD or move somewhere else.
Also luring mobs is just another strategy, albeit an offensive one, but in an instance where you cannot PK this is all you can do to disrupt someone for the benefit of your faction/group.
but most of all stop being such QQing carebears its a game, suck it up and use your brain to beat them not QQ to some else because they out strategize you.0 -
Logan_Morgan - Lost City wrote: »To all the posts above me, Seriously HTFU.
its an event where you are competing for mobs, if someone out dps's you and gets the drops get more DD or move somewhere else.
Also luring mobs is just another strategy, albeit an offensive one, but in an instance where you cannot PK this is all you can do to disrupt someone for the benefit of your faction/group.
but most of all stop being such QQing carebears its a game, suck it up and use your brain to beat them not QQ to some else because they out strategize you.
^/this
COA is a mostly a guild event imo. Since you get ported into random rooms you need a good amount of people to help you kill bosses. The main prize is the Coa ring, you need 600 orbs from bosses if you're not in a winning room and 400 if you are in the winning room.In PvP server's where its more competitive, you dont want rival factions getting coa rings (back before when CV rings werent popular). So yeah, you would lure mobs to the other people and make them die. And to be honest, i would prefer being crashed rather than boring lure boss kill, rinse and repeat. Anyway, imo Coa isnt for profit, you need a large number of people to try to get into the same room. Sure people(mostly fist bms) solol it for tags to make into pages to sell but idk. Crashing isn't harassment, the goal of COA is to get the highest amount of orbs anyway possible.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
eatswithspoons "*roll eyes* real money for virtual property? That's definitely not allowed"
Lol what?0 -
Coraline - Lost City wrote: »^/this
COA is a mostly a guild event imo. Since you get ported into random rooms you need a good amount of people to help you kill bosses. The main prize is the Coa ring, you need 600 orbs from bosses if you're not in a winning room and 400 if you are in the winning room.In PvP server's where its more competitive, you dont want rival factions getting coa rings (back before when CV rings werent popular). So yeah, you would lure mobs to the other people and make them die. And to be honest, i would prefer being crashed rather than boring lure boss kill, rinse and repeat. Anyway, imo Coa isnt for profit, you need a large number of people to try to get into the same room. Sure people(mostly fist bms) solol it for tags to make into pages to sell but idk. Crashing isn't harassment, the goal of COA is to get the highest amount of orbs anyway possible.
Would you apply the same standards to members of your own faction? Say you were really unlucky and your room was full of your own faction. This is purely for discussion purpose. I just want to hash it all out.0 -
Logan_Morgan - Lost City wrote: »but most of all stop being such QQing carebears its a game, suck it up and use your brain to beat them not QQ to some else because they out strategize you.
You do realise you just told everyone in the game to switch to a char with 5aps.0 -
That person is in LC, where a lot of people are from PW-MY. That's what they did there and just carried it over. Other servers don't have that kind of people, so they tend to be more solo/selfish.Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »Would you apply the same standards to members of your own faction? Say you were really unlucky and your room was full of your own faction. This is purely for discussion purpose. I just want to hash it all out.0 -
Coraline - Lost City wrote: »Since you get ported into random rooms you need a good amount of people to help you kill bosses.
You might need that, but I always solo my bosses. I have solo'd up to four simultaneously (I prefer fighting one but sometimes other people lure other bosses to me and then die -- this increases my costs slightly but also increases my orb acquisition rate, so I can deal with it).
Of course, I do not get CoA rings, but that is not why I go there.
Meanwhile, no one has ever been able to KS me (aside from my very first day).
And, no, I am not going to explain my secrets. They would not be secrets then, would they? But I am not a 5aps fist user.0 -
I think it's really mean-spirited to try to steal a mob/boss from someone who has already been attacking the mob/boss. Just because you were too slow to get the boss you wanted, doesn't mean you should steal it. If you REALLY want it, squad up, or at least ask.
I was very proud of my volcanic magmite last night, who managed to, for the major duration of the battle, kept aggro (and I apparently out DD'd) from another veno and a herc who tried to steal our boss shortly after it spawned.
And then, a level 100 wiz ASKED for a squad, and I gladly added him, and we murdered bosses like nobody's business, and I was happy to have him with me. My pet was mostly able to keep aggro from him, too, even on the last boss, when we both were going all-out, trying to kill it in time.Katzyn, level 101 Demon Veno
Kylenea, level 99 Demon Cleric
ForestSonata, level 6x Mystic
Proud wifeh of Yudai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Courtesy of the amazing Forsakenx~0 -
This is the same question as:
Is KSing allowed?
Same questions come up with PQ and just about anything, and the answer is yes. If they can consistently outdamage you on all of these different mobs, then who is to say those mobs don't belong to them?
KSing is a vague accusation. Should anyone that hits a mob first be allowed to have exclusive rights to it? Should I then go through the instance hitting each and every mob to claim rights?
CoA is a multiple mob event. If you're not killing at least 3 at a time, you will lose.0 -
Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »I think it's really mean-spirited to try to steal a mob/boss from someone who has already been attacking the mob/boss. Just because you were too slow to get the boss you wanted, doesn't mean you should steal it. If you REALLY want it, squad up, or at least ask.
I was very proud of my volcanic magmite last night, who managed to, for the major duration of the battle, kept aggro (and I apparently out DD'd) from another veno and a herc who tried to steal our boss shortly after it spawned.
And then, a level 100 wiz ASKED for a squad, and I gladly added him, and we murdered bosses like nobody's business, and I was happy to have him with me. My pet was mostly able to keep aggro from him, too, even on the last boss, when we both were going all-out, trying to kill it in time.
why is it mean spirited? On LC the CoA event is a Competition! And it's mostly pretty much only used by the 3 Top factions of the server( Essence, Kamisama and Spectral[while essence and Kamisama aare allied and acting agains Spectral])
+ xD if your magmite was able to hold the aggro against the wiz ... the wiz prolly had a +2-3 weapon
on LC most of the time the bosses are down and people wait for them since everyone in CoA is useing a +10 weapon and there are more than just one squad of lvl100+ people zenning them while some barbs are lureing.
i think while last double drop essence and spectral both got 9 or more rings form one CoA event!0 -
I don't think people intentionally pull bosses to get other people killed, because that doesn't work in their favor as then their whole damn city loses. What people do is "oops I pulled a phys immune WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO???? Maybe I should run like my head's cut off through everyone else!".
What these damn morons don't realize is that it takes two Holy Paths to reset a phys immune...one CoA event I had to separate the mag immune from the phys immune next to it and pull it to my team, so it's definitely possible to reset a phys immune. People need to grow a brain before they go in there.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually, in the rest of the game, being the first to attack does give you claim to a mob. If you're continually attacking stuff other people are already attacking, the GMs will ban you for harassing others.
Source? I call BS on this statement. GMs have stated numerous times that KSing isn't bannable. b:byeAubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »Would you apply the same standards to members of your own faction? Say you were really unlucky and your room was full of your own faction. This is purely for discussion purpose. I just want to hash it all out.
I don't exactly get what you're trying to imply. I read the highlighted text and your response...
CoA for most guilds work to get rings and they're usually given out based on attendance. Sure if you want to go and solo, it may be frowned upon, but I highly doubt that a faction will try to steal a factionmate's boss. I'd rather pull the debuffing bosses to enemy factions rather than KS my own. b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't think people intentionally pull bosses to get other people killed, because that doesn't work in their favor as then their whole damn city loses. What people do is "oops I pulled a phys immune WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO???? Maybe I should run like my head's cut off through everyone else!".
What these damn morons don't realize is that it takes two Holy Paths to lose a phys immune, just two.
Actually, I was a witness to what was being mentioned about last night's COA, and it was CLEARLY on purpose. Most of the time it's people just trying to shake the boss off themselves, but when you lure 3 different ones over and over? That's intentional, especially if you're taunting them in general chat while you're doing it.
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Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Source? I call BS on this statement. GMs have stated numerous times that KSing isn't bannable. b:bye
KSing isn't bannable until it is done to the point it's harassment - and I know that has been stated. When KSing turns from "Imma take your mob" into "Imma take all your mobs to the point it's impossible for you to finish your quest" then it obviously turns into an issue of harassment and at this point it is potentially bannable.
KSing is really very situational and while I have never done CoA and never intend to, that is one situation where KSing is not breaking any rules, nor will it count as anything close to harassment. CoA is a competition in a competition:
1) Get enough drops to potentially making something out of it (AKA rings)
2) Beat the other cities
It's not KSing when a better DD or squad of DDs comes to take your mobs and kill them faster. If it was, a lot of people would have been banned for PQ, where people stealing mobs is an every day kind of thing. (Especially if you're a Herc veno who can tank the mob meaning you tank it until it's nearly dead at which point they finally steal at which point you did all the tanking and they just sat there and slapped it. It's common as anything.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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