Balancing

Cervantia - Sanctuary · July 2010

The reason why I make this poll is that I have found myself more and more unsatisfied with the balance between the different classes in the game over the past few month. I would like to know your guys opinions to countercheck my view of things and find out wether many people see a problem or if it's just me. My arguments are the following:

1. There is a huge gap between pure casters (Wiz, Cle, Psy) and the other classes. The reason is mainly based on attack speed. Over the past few month there was a massive increase of items and popular character builds based on attack speed. The reason is simple: You can just auto attack, do more damage in less time and become rewarded with a huge amount of chi that you use to demon spark which bosts your dmg and speed even more. It has gotten to a point where people don't use skills on pve anymore because they slow down their damage cycle. Some try to argument: Yes but you can go for reduced channeling as well. And that is true. But you will always have the same cooldown times on your skills no matter how fast you cast them, thus don't gain more chi or increase your dps. Besides you also have a lot higher costs if all your doing depends on MP. While the attack speed based character just auto attacks and repairs their weapon after a grinding tour, the spell user has a permanent insane MP bill to pay just for being active. That way grinding DQ items never pays out...
You can also notice this gap in pvp where in a long one on one encounter the casters always run out of chi while melees and esp archers always keep building chi and spark a lot. That means you either have to drop ppl with small usage of chi or take chi pots and forbear from using vac powder in return... which also sucks against melees when you have to kite. Another point is weapon ability triggering (also known as the reason why every archer has a heaven shatterer). If you attack fast your weapon triggers often, if you cast you only land a few (heavy) hits and mostly get no additional effect.

2. The tideborn classes were made too strong. I believe they wanted to create esp potent damage dealers so many people switch their main class or at least secondary alt towards a fishy and spent a lot of money for them once more. And indeed the tideborn have become very strong... they are totally out of control! In other words: Their possible damage output in very short time made them break the limits of old squad constellations. I see every day people that are too dumb for just taking it slow with the tideborn, just because you can outdamage every attempt of your barb to hold aggro does not mean you should...

3. Assassins have wrecked pk on pve servers. It's just too cheap to play everybody can do that and that's why you see (or don't see) red assassins everywhere. Most people on Sanc have either given up on their old class to roll an assassin or quit to pk. The main problem is, the advantage of going unseen is higher on a pve server because the pk is not everywhere but on very few locations with few people involved. So what assassins do is jump people out of stealth with a double spark and stun lock them. If you die they got their kill and if you don't die they simply turn invisible again and run away to afk somewhere... you get no kill. Now to survive the jump of a very good assassin you'll need domain and probably depending on your class also an ironguard. You pay, they chill - that's how it goes atm.
Sure there are ways, other than bringing your own assassin mate, to spot them. You can take an awareness portion. But tbo this item is a big fail: It does only help if the assassin is lower in level and it is too difficult to obtain. Should have a lower apothecary level imo.
The other way is to aoe the assassin. Problem is all assassins with a brain know you will try to do that and you always need a target to aoe so they stay away from other pk activated people and npcs. The assassin has what everyone else does not have: Time to wait. Wait until the protection skills of your enemy wear off, wait until two people get involved into a fight to strike them both down, wait until your victim grows tired of watching their back and hit them just b4 they return to safe, and wait in stealth while everyone runs around like crazy trying to find you... the really cool assassins mock on whipser now too. Solution would be to have a genie aoe dmg skill that can be activated by selecting yourself.
One final prove: As soon as an assassin turns visible everyone tries to gank them because they have build up a nice level of frustration...

4. Pros and Cons of the classes atm (personal opinion)

Archer + high dps, great chi build up - a bit squishy

Assassin + high dmg, pvp dominating - aggro stealer par excellence

Barb + huge chunk of HP - acc against dex based classes is poo

BM + fists, fists, fists, - all other weapons

Cleric + only healer, absolutely needed in every squad - high MP costs, cheap pk prey all you need is timing

Psychic + spell spammer, best caster dps - most people can't play them because they spam too much... and die

Veno + top solo class, very variable in builds (arcane, light, heavy warfox, herc tank, nix people dropper) - there are so many of them

Wizzy + their spells look nice, they hurt heavy armor users a lot - thin as paper, their casting times are awefull

I am aware of the fact classes need to be different to make a game work. But idk my feeling is it worked better when there was no attack speed and no tideborn. I've seen too many people who regret now having rolled a cleric or a wizzard seing they can't compete with other classes even though the gear they invested in is better. The only thing that remains for those who play a class not in the dev's favour is to find satisfaction when they enter a squad and someone shouts oh look a wizzard/cleric I already thought we would never find one they have become so rare

!

One more thing: Venos love assassins. Since their release the OMG NERF VENO threads have completely disappeared from the PWI forums

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Sorry, but i just couldnt read that massive wall of text @_@

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · July 2010

Yes, sins are OP, No, nothing will be done about it.

Cervantia - Sanctuary · July 2010

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sorry, but i just couldnt read that massive wall of text @_@

Then move on and don't post - it's a forum you can expect written stuff there. Besides you could have waited for the poll and just clicked your opinion... the text explains in detail (yes detail means long) what my arguments for the poll are, but there is no need to read them if you don't want to.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver · July 2010

I did, and I clicked the "no" option.
So what if sins or any other class is OP?
Well, if you think about it, they aint. We just think that they are OP

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2010

One final prove: As soon as an assassin turns visible everyone tries to gank them because they have build up a nice level of frustration...

haha....... i saw this alot in tw too...

tweakz · July 2010

1) Casters can sit in one spot and drop enemies around them while melee's have to run up to each mob and probably take hits. -not fair!

2) Casters often kill w/o getting hit or getting hit with less frequent and or lighter dmg. -not fair!

3) -Channeling is cheap and found on more items while -int runs high and isn't on as many equips. -not fair!

4) Mages have DOTs, or pets that could contribute to ~5dmgs per second. -not fair!

5) Melee users have much higher repair bills.-not fair!

Yeah.. we need more balancing! They need make melee classes not so underpowered!

Dakaruch - Lost City · July 2010

I agree to an extent, the thing is... You are wrong in many aspects. High dps isn't cheap, for one. You can say the same about -channeling gears, but again, doesn't matter cause:
1-Magic NEVER miss, melee miss, and unless you don't wanna miss you can do only a couple of things. Turn squishy to go dex build and get easily killed. Get accuracy rings with no crit which sucks anyway, or just do it the expensive way and get 2 cv rings (again, not cheap to be melee).
2-You're comparing MP cost with fast dps repair cost, and once again, that is fail. Why? Cause you can get OP MP pots pretty cheap with tokens, while a melee class with high dps might have to repair weapon 2 or 3 times in a instance like HH depending on party. And repair cost isn't cheap, you can ask any 5.0 speed fist bm/barb/ea how much they pay.
3-Melee classes have weapons with debuffs/increased dmg/whatever, simply because it is the only way to actually have a fair shot against magic classes. No matter what you say, i'll say this once more, magic never miss, magic hits harder then any melee dmg, and you don't have to get close to do your thing.
4-I really don't know what kind of mages/psy/venos/eps you have on Sanctuary, but in LC, there are mages with insane physical defense. So being squishy is just not a valid point. Lvl 11 earth barrier, cube necklace, warsong belt, plume shell, voodoo, etc, etc give advantages against melee dmg, so no, it is not unbalanced.

With this said, i do agree fast dps is the way to go to kill people, at least as the point of view as a bm, which used to be seen as a support class that everyone just wanted to abuse for dragons. Bm dragon so anyone else can kill, go stun this and that, that's all people used to see bms for... Now that bms started to realise that attack speed makes everyone else QQ, you don't like it. Bear with it, really. You can counter a sparked bm with so many things, expel, domain, seal, stun, sleep...

Now, i do agree that sins are OP, but that's how things roll. Arguing about stealth is pointless, as an Assassin, is supposed to be able to kill someone before you can notice it. Therefore the stealth, attack speed, high crit... Assassins are squishy though, just like most light armor classes. Regarding that about making barbs not able to keep aggro... Tends to happen when you have high dps... What you do about it? Let the sin tank and die, most sins realise it's not a good idea to tank a boss and decide to reduce their speed and let barb tank, simple. If they don't, why you bother then, just let them die, QQ about it, and if they don't **** just do things how you normally would do.

Quilue - Sanctuary · July 2010

With Jone's Blessing around, ranged damage spikers have become very powerful in PvP, so I don't see your point about casters in PvP unless they decide to make all the Jone's Blessings in everyone's mail box go POOF one day.

Also, about archer's chi gain: it's 5 chi per attack, same as BM/sins. Wizards have very good chi gain, with pyro giving them 15 with 2.5 chan + cast, gush giving 10 with 2s chan + cast, which is better than archer chi gain unless you're looking at a max -int archer with 1.05 attack/s. It is true that wizards (and BMs too for that matter) are more dependent on chi to kill than archers, so that may be the reason why you think archers have good chi build up. Anyways there is a thread on chi gain for every archer spell somewhere, and I don't remember any spell gaining more than 15 unless it's a chi proc for Sage/Demon skill

Clerics have worse chi gain than wizards with Plume Shot giving 5 and Wield only giving 15 (compared to 15 with Pyro and (i think) 20 with Divine Pyro, Snare, for wizards) and I've pointed that out in another thread before.

Also, about weapon procs, 1.05/s with max -interval is NOT very fast, if you want something purged using a char other than a veno (say you're fighting harpy), you don't use an archer seriously, you'd use a BM with the purge spear.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Cervantia (OP) wrote:

Cleric + only healer, absolutely needed in every squad - high MP costs, cheap pk prey all you need is timing

Indeed clerics are the only healers (as opposed to healer as cleric's sole function), but once other classes learn how to use meat, pots, powders and orbs, they become more independant from the cleric, who are now free to develop their full DD potential.

As for the "cheap pk prey", I guess you never met a full MAG cleric in PvP, right? Or one who truly knows how to play their classes, unlike the oracle babies.

Psychic + spell spammer, best caster dps - most people can't play them because they spam too much... and die

I have to disagree again, that is quite wrong. On the contrary, many people play their psychic char successfully. Again, it's a matter of knowing how to play your class that makes all the difference.

So I voted no.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · July 2010

the game isnt as balanced as it WAS back in the 1st few months of release

as time went on more things were implemented, none of it was tested properly or neither have we seen any major checks to the games balance by the dev's in today's game play

so we've basically had little things added that have stacked up over time and have created big problem's (un-balancing) and i don't expect to see the dev's sit down for one afternoon to brain storm and even it out again, their motive is money now.

im just sayin

Cervantia - Sanctuary · July 2010

Dakaruch - Lost City wrote: »

1-Magic NEVER miss, melee miss, and unless you don't wanna miss you can do only a couple of things. Turn squishy to go dex build and get easily killed. Get accuracy rings with no crit which sucks anyway, or just do it the expensive way and get 2 cv rings (again, not cheap to be melee).
3-Melee classes have weapons with debuffs/increased dmg/whatever, simply because it is the only way to actually have a fair shot against magic classes. No matter what you say, i'll say this once more, magic never miss, magic hits harder then any melee dmg, and you don't have to get close to do your thing.

Then tell me when was the last time even a barb without acc rings missed on an arcane user who usually has almost no dex and no noticable evading numbers?

Then why is it fair to purge your oponents several times in a fight with a range weapon in combination with att speed? A purge is the death for most classes...

Dropping from the sky already trippeled sparked or in case of barbs with a welcoming arma is absolutely comparable with the heavy hits of spell casters.

you can get OP MP pots pretty cheap with tokens, while a melee class with high dps might have to repair weapon 2 or 3 times in a instance

You have a point there, but I want to add that the repair price remains the same for the same % of damage on the equiptment. The MP food price depends from the token price. And also it is not that easy to keep an eye for the fight and the MP bar, use the genie and the pots over and over again - the advantage in reaction time when using a MP charm is just too big...

in LC, there are mages with insane physical defense. So being squishy is just not a valid point. Lvl 11 earth barrier, cube necklace, warsong belt, plume shell, voodoo, etc, etc give advantages against melee dmg

I agree on the physical resistance for highly geared arcane people. However it always comes to a price: Less HP if you use your sockets for garnets instead of citrine, and eventually less magical attack/MP in case you make up for the HP by putting some mag points into vit. If you are lower on HP then the other elemental users will have it easier on you, if you sacrificed some mag to prevent that you suddenly get problems dropping charmed barbs and bms...
Now for clerics plume shell is not a plus. True is you absolutely need it to survive you can't without it. But because it is no permanent buff such as stone barrier you waste a lot of chi in recasting it. There is always a 10 sec cooldown in between the casts so every clever barb, archer, sin whatever stuns and hits you hard just at that time. Besides the shell does drain so much MP out of your pool it's not even funny.

TigerLily - Lost City · July 2010

Well amt interval build mele classes are insanely OP in pve. Solo HH/Nirvana/Frost bosses in 30 sec - 1 min is kinda ridiculous.

Casters just suck for any form of pve - DDing, no one wants them in party unless they come as cleric and heal.

But casters and ranged classes in general have gotten a boost in pvp due to +30 blessing which in many situations makes them to strong and gives an unfair advantage towards mele.

Endgame wizards are just ridiculously OP in pvp period. Doesnt matter how much any other class cash shops or invests in gear, they still cant compete in terms of pvp against a wizards with Rank8 or Nirvana weapon and a + 30 attack blessing. You just get 1 shoot before you can even get close enough to do anything.

I dont particularly like the idea of a game where you have to make 1 type of char/class for pvp and 1 for pve.

Dakaruch - Lost City · July 2010

Cervantia - Sanctuary wrote:

Then tell me when was the last time even a barb without acc rings missed on an arcane user who usually has almost no dex and no noticable evading numbers?

Then why is it fair to purge your oponents several times in a fight with a range weapon in combination with att speed? A purge is the death for most classes...

Dropping from the sky already trippeled sparked or in case of barbs with a welcoming arma is absolutely comparable with the heavy hits of spell casters.

You have a point there, but I want to add that the repair price remains the same for the same % of damage on the equiptment. The MP food price depends from the token price. And also it is not that easy to keep an eye for the fight and the MP bar, use the genie and the pots over and over again - the advantage in reaction time when using a MP charm is just too big...

I agree on the physical resistance for highly geared arcane people. However it always comes to a price: Less HP if you use your sockets for garnets instead of citrine, and eventually less magical attack/MP in case you make up for the HP by putting some mag points into vit. If you are lower on HP then the other elemental users will have it easier on you, if you sacrificed some mag to prevent that you suddenly get problems dropping charmed barbs and bms...
Now for clerics plume shell is not a plus. True is you absolutely need it to survive you can't without it. But because it is no permanent buff such as stone barrier you waste a lot of chi in recasting it. There is always a 10 sec cooldown in between the casts so every clever barb, archer, sin whatever stuns and hits you hard just at that time. Besides the shell does drain so much MP out of your pool it's not even funny.

Alright... Barb not using bloodbath = miss for sure unless it's a dex build.
Bloodbath decrease max HP, which makes perdition deal less dmg. It's that simple.
Besides, unless you're dumb as an arcane user you will run out of perdition range (and perdition does take a while to cast) or you will just domain over it.

Why is it fair to purge... Hmm, correct me if i'm wrong but venos can purge since lvl 29? Debuff bows are overpowered, but still, if you're an ep you can just sleep and rebuff yourself.

Jumping down from sky with triple spark... it sucks, still doesn't compare with a sin tping to you, stun you and kill you. Not like you can't see a bm 3 sparking, dropping down and kill you without you being able to do **** about it.

About repairs... do not compare a arcane user repair bill with a 5.0 fist bm repair bill... It's not the same, ever. A bm can go down to almost 0 durability in a couple of bosses in HH, a ep needs to repair after the run and it will be like 20k at most.
So you say that mp price depend on token price... Well tokens sell at most for 15k each. You still make loads of pots from very few tokens. Also it's annoying looking at your mp bar and using skills and genie, and whatever... It sure is, then again, i never saw a mage running out of mp trying to kill a bm. Why? Cause like i said, magic dmg is so much OP, that most mages can kill anything before they get hit.

And ok, let's say that arcane users have to sacrifice hp for physical defense, or magic for vit... So what, heavy armor doesn't? Lol.
So that you know, heavy armor stats are actually hard to play with... As an arcane armor user you focus mainly on 1 attribute, magic. You don't need much str or dex to use your armor and weapon, as off why arcane users have alot of magic at 100+. Multi weaponed bms need to focus on enough str for axes, and in case of HH90 gold axes, 272 str, need almost 200 dex for hh100 fists or cv claws, and with this restrictions you have like a bit over 100 points in vit. Which means a heavy armor user focus on 3 attributes. Therefore you cannot compare the dmg, and even though attack speed is OP, a pure magic build can kill heavy armor before they come close, unless it's some retardedly high hp bm or barb.
And again i'll say this... Magic NEVER miss, while melee can miss... You know how annoying it is to miss a dragon? Or how annoying it is to miss a perdition? Miss a dragon, say goodbye to 2 sparks and chance to kill someone in a couple of shots. Miss a perdition and say goodbye to half your HP, or say hello to a 8, 9, 10k charm tick and charm cooldown. It's not this simple, and not this OP. Everything can be countered if you know what to do.

Fruitluips - Lost City · July 2010

1. Assassins
2. Genies

Nakhimov - Lost City · July 2010

ahahahahahah, poor OP thinks devs care enough to balance classes.

Lol wut's normalization

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary · July 2010

All classes will have their own pros and cons.
That is what makes them say.... Unique.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

if the developers ever balance the game, all the cash shoppers will rage quit and pwi will die from no income.

Euphy - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Dakaruch - Lost City wrote: »

Alright... Barb not using bloodbath = miss for sure unless it's a dex build.
Bloodbath decrease max HP, which makes perdition deal less dmg. It's that simple.
Besides, unless you're dumb as an arcane user you will run out of perdition range (and perdition does take a while to cast) or you will just domain over it.

Why is it fair to purge... Hmm, correct me if i'm wrong but venos can purge since lvl 29? Debuff bows are overpowered, but still, if you're an ep you can just sleep and rebuff yourself.

Jumping down from sky with triple spark... it sucks, still doesn't compare with a sin tping to you, stun you and kill you. Not like you can't see a bm 3 sparking, dropping down and kill you without you being able to do **** about it.

About repairs... do not compare a arcane user repair bill with a 5.0 fist bm repair bill... It's not the same, ever. A bm can go down to almost 0 durability in a couple of bosses in HH, a ep needs to repair after the run and it will be like 20k at most.
So you say that mp price depend on token price... Well tokens sell at most for 15k each. You still make loads of pots from very few tokens. Also it's annoying looking at your mp bar and using skills and genie, and whatever... It sure is, then again, i never saw a mage running out of mp trying to kill a bm. Why? Cause like i said, magic dmg is so much OP, that most mages can kill anything before they get hit.

And ok, let's say that arcane users have to sacrifice hp for physical defense, or magic for vit... So what, heavy armor doesn't? Lol.
So that you know, heavy armor stats are actually hard to play with... As an arcane armor user you focus mainly on 1 attribute, magic. You don't need much str or dex to use your armor and weapon, as off why arcane users have alot of magic at 100+. Multi weaponed bms need to focus on enough str for axes, and in case of HH90 gold axes, 272 str, need almost 200 dex for hh100 fists or cv claws, and with this restrictions you have like a bit over 100 points in vit. Which means a heavy armor user focus on 3 attributes. Therefore you cannot compare the dmg, and even though attack speed is OP, a pure magic build can kill heavy armor before they come close, unless it's some retardedly high hp bm or barb.
And again i'll say this... Magic NEVER miss, while melee can miss... You know how annoying it is to miss a dragon? Or how annoying it is to miss a perdition? Miss a dragon, say goodbye to 2 sparks and chance to kill someone in a couple of shots. Miss a perdition and say goodbye to half your HP, or say hello to a 8, 9, 10k charm tick and charm cooldown. It's not this simple, and not this OP. Everything can be countered if you know what to do.

Whatever... the "issues" you're talking about aren't important.

First Imbalance: Channeling vs. Interval

The basic, bottom line is that NOTHING compares to 5,0atk/sec sparked normal attacks. This is OBVIOUS given that Barbarians, Archers, Assassins, Blademasters - hell - even Venomancers are switching over to fists. Three of those classes prefer to abandon all of their skills to imitate!!! That is not balance.

Interval doesn't align with Channeling in the least. My equipment costs easily as much as my husbands. I have -71% Channeling sparked. He has 5,0 atk/sec sparked. My fastest attack still takes me 1,33 seconds to use. So thats what.... 18,000 damage? My hubby gets 3,000 per hit... so... 15,000 damage? Okay... but he can perma-spark. I can't. Its completely impossible. Which means I drop to -46% after 15 seconds and lose 700% weapon attack bonus.
Besides that was my fastest offensive spell. All the others have a longer CASTING time which is separate from channeling and cannot be reduced. So then my DPS is even lower in comparison. Because casting time doesn't scale lineally with power.
Don't tell me to use sleep, because everyone knows melees can stun luck the best.

Second Imbalance: Facebook Blessing

Lovely, now everyone's screwed. Nothing but a one-hit fest. Archers, Psychics, and Wizards got the biggest boost. I used to fight evenly with archers, now I don't have a chance.
Clerics and Venomancers got screwed the most, because generally they have the lowest spike potential. Additionally heals and pet-damage are unaffected by the blessing.
Melees got a general boost, but with their range-disadvantage is exaggerated against Archers, Psychics, and Wizards. Clerics to a lesser extent. To be fair... Lance-Blademasters can actually obtain amazing spike damage to rival archers. They have several 18 meter range techniques too.
PvP is boring now.

Other:

Repair bills, mana-usage, blah, blah, blah, skill costs, blah, pets costs: that's your class. Its not really a balance issue.

I think this post described the situation very well:

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Well amt interval build mele classes are insanely OP in pve. Solo HH/Nirvana/Frost bosses in 30 sec - 1 min is kinda ridiculous.

Casters just suck for any form of pve - DDing, no one wants them in party unless they come as cleric and heal.

But casters and ranged classes in general have gotten a boost in pvp due to +30 blessing which in many situations makes them to strong and gives an unfair advantage towards mele.

Endgame wizards are just ridiculously OP in pvp period. Doesnt matter how much any other class cash shops or invests in gear, they still cant compete in terms of pvp against a wizards with Rank8 or Nirvana weapon and a + 30 attack blessing. You just get 1 shoot before you can even get close enough to do anything.

I dont particularly like the idea of a game where you have to make 1 type of char/class for pvp and 1 for pve.

You can't pretend there is class balance when the only DDers you want in Frost/Twilight/Nirvana/Warsong are 5.0atk/sec and the only caster is a healing cleric. Tank? It better be a 5.0atk/sec Blademaster/Barbarian. Because your tank-built barbarian can't hold argo regardless.

Astrohawke - Lost City · July 2010

Pssh go make a 5 aps fist cleric/wiz/psy if it's so good. Then restat once you're done with PvE.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Pssh go make a 5 aps fist cleric/wiz/psy if it's so good. Then restat once you're done with PvE.

Great idea especially since our triple spark does not give atk rate or greater physical atk.

SuperHawty - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Much of the lack of balance comes from people leveling way too fast and not learning how to play.

Much of it comes from people who haven't learned to adjust to the two new classes.

The rest comes from people who don't realize that some idiots have spent 50k on this game and pimped themselves and their friends out enough that even bad players can almost look good.

Astrohawke - Lost City · July 2010

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Great idea especially since our triple spark does not give atk rate or greater physical atk.

You don't need demon spark for 5 aps if you're using fists and it does improve physical attack because it gives increased weapon dmg which = physical when you're using fists.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

You don't need demon spark for 5 aps if you're using fists and it does improve physical attack because it gives increased weapon dmg which = physical when you're using fists.

Kinda sad when a lvl 80 Lost City toon post this. I think the problem is more than balance.

Minimuss - Sanctuary · July 2010

Atm the jones blessings are favouring ranged classes whereas bms and barbs have a hard time. These blessings may be fun for a while but with the possibility to collect/stack them it seems they will stay for month. b:shocked

Daggster - Lost City · July 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if the developers ever balance the game, all the cash shoppers will rage quit and pwi will die from no income.

a typical Lylfo comment ... as all your comments are, this one simply is inept and has nothing to do with the issue this thread is dealing with!(jfyi this thread is about the inbalance between the classes in the game and not about the inbalance between cser and non csers)

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote:

Kinda sad when a lvl 80 Lost City toon post this. I think the problem is more than balance.

i bet the lvl80 toon has a lvl100+ toon in his back lol
actually there is no problem with the balance between the classes!
I guess u are talking about the imbalance between people that spend 5k+$ and the ones that dont cash shop ... well ofc it is kinda frustrating that the cser get everything they want asap and they are hard to kill ... but if u spend some time in hh and nirvana u can get good gears too and compete with them(u don't even have to spend more time being online lol since they hang around 24/7 and are bored of having nothing to do). And u still have your 5k$ irl.

@Euphy:

well yes the -int people are prefered in instances! But the casters are in pvp!
maybe your husband can do the same dmg than u in the same time, but remember he has to triplespark for dealing 15k in that time and he has to come close to his target, while u just have to do 1hit form range and if u crit u might even doe more than 15k which normally 1shots everything, exept barbs!(take a look @ the amount of people that get killed in pvp, or for the pve servers tw, by a wizard or by a bm/sin ... the wiz drops 1 ice dragon into a group of people and kills 10+ people by doing 1 hit, then he kites lol the bm/sin has to go into that group, gets instantly ganked and might kill 1 of them)

well melees might be able to stunlock ... but what's the advantage of that if u cant even reach your target? i can't remember that bms and barbs have a ranged stun, yes sins do have one but sins are only good for 1v1ing, in mass pvp ALL the other classes are better than sins.

so whats the imbalance here between the -int and the channeling? - the -int doesnt get u anywhere in pvping with more than 2 actors!

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote:

All classes will have their own pros and cons.
That is what makes them say.... Unique.

true that ... imagine every class would be the same, there wouldn't be any reason to have different classes than anymore! And it is usual that classes have advantages BUT ALSO DISADVANTAGES towards other classes!

to come back to the thread issue ... i voted "No it's all fine." because that's how it is.

-.- why do i even reply on Lylfos posts lol ... guess the are way to inept to not be answered, but i will try not to comment u anymore since u never seem to get anything that people tell u

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Daggster - Lost City wrote: »

a typical Lylfo comment ... as all your comments are, this one simply is inept and has nothing to do with the issue this thread is dealing with!(jfyi this thread is about the inbalance between the classes in the game and not about the inbalance between cser and non csers)

i bet the lvl80 toon has a lvl100+ toon in his back lol
actually there is no problem with the balance between the classes!
I guess u are talking about the imbalance between people that spend 5k+$ and the ones that dont cash shop ... well ofc it is kinda frustrating that the cser get everything they want asap and they are hard to kill ... but if u spend some time in hh and nirvana u can get good gears too and compete with them(u don't even have to spend more time being online lol since they hang around 24/7 and are bored of having nothing to do). And u still have your 5k$ irl.

@Euphy:

well yes the -int people are prefered in instances! But the casters are in pvp!
maybe your husband can do the same dmg than u in the same time, but remember he has to triplespark for dealing 15k in that time and he has to come close to his target, while u just have to do 1hit form range and if u crit u might even doe more than 15k which normally 1shots everything, exept barbs!(take a look @ the amount of people that get killed in pvp, or for the pve servers tw, by a wizard or by a bm/sin ... the wiz drops 1 ice dragon into a group of people and kills 10+ people by doing 1 hit, then he kites lol the bm/sin has to go into that group, gets instantly ganked and might kill 1 of them)

well melees might be able to stunlock ... but what's the advantage of that if u cant even reach your target? i can't remember that bms and barbs have a ranged stun, yes sins do have one but sins are only good for 1v1ing, in mass pvp ALL the other classes are better than sins.

so whats the imbalance here between the -int and the channeling? - the -int doesnt get u anywhere in pvping with more than 2 actors!

true that ... imagine every class would be the same, there wouldn't be any reason to have different classes than anymore! And it is usual that classes have advantages BUT ALSO DISADVANTAGES towards other classes!

to come back to the thread issue ... i voted "No it's all fine." because that's how it is.

-.- why do i even reply on Lylfos posts lol ... guess the are way to inept to not be answered, but i will try not to comment u anymore since u never seem to get anything that people tell u

b:shy Aww what lovely feedback from a fish, the number 1 OP class lol.

_EngKanTo_ - Archosaur · July 2010

I played other online games and I always read in forum people complaining that the game is unbalance. Do you know other game which is balance?

IMHO, the game was created in such a way that each race have their own pros and cons. I guess people should know that before choosing their class. I played cleric then rolled over to other class because I find myself very weak and because I was amazed how powerful other class can be. But now, I decided to start again a cleric because this is what really I enjoyed playing with.

If you are really not satisfied with your character and jealous with what other class can do then better roll-over to that class or quit the game and find a balance game instead of complaining every now and then.

kenlee · July 2010

Dakaruch - Lost City wrote: »

About repairs... do not compare a arcane user repair bill with a 5.0 fist bm repair bill... It's not the same, ever. A bm can go down to almost 0 durability in a couple of bosses in HH, a ep needs to repair after the run and it will be like 20k at most.

lmao, like you get any armor repair in 30sec boss fight

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

You don't need demon spark for 5 aps if you're using fists and it does improve physical attack because it gives increased weapon dmg which = physical when you're using fists.

lmao
ok, sorry there is no -interval chest for arcane users or no cyclone heel to boosts your speed to 5
in fact, you do need all of those -int items, including that very expensive tome to get 4 atk/sec. so, with very expensive gear you gain 4atk/sec as a cleric for example then what... you probably gain like 3 or 4 chi per melee hit and no atk speed increase from spark either. plus the physial atk with fists is probably max. 2-3k

Quilue - Sanctuary · July 2010

Ya casters gain less chi per melee hit than physical classes...also, certain triple sparks really do not give physical damage increase, it gives a magical attack only buff equivalent to a percentage of your weapon attack. The only class that give phys and mag attack buff sparked is veno.

Daggster - Lost City · July 2010

well that's maybe why robes shouldn't use fists lol

btw. there are genie skills that lower channeling so u can increase your dps as well as pots that set your canneling to 0 maybe u should try such stuff for higher dps ... oh and yes 5aps make a pretty high repair bill even form 30sec-1min bosses, with 5aps u usually have the aggro too so its not only your wapon that will need repairs!(guess who is doing all the work @ them? sure not the wiz or archer who will have a increase of repair by 100coins after the 30sec boss)

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