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Konavi - Sanctuary
Posts: 12 Arc User
As a Cleric i feel like a fool when the squad I am in does following things during BH:
1.Aggroes to many mobs at once;
2.Stay incoming bosses way;
3.Barb does not hold agro;
4.Barb has some junk armor with no element resistance or completely not have a element resistance(worst no earth);
Which makes my death very swift.
I do not know what to do any more i like being DD cleric.
Only solution i see make equipment check on other people in my squad before i go with them anywhere.
Please vote if these thing happen to you too
1.Aggroes to many mobs at once;
2.Stay incoming bosses way;
3.Barb does not hold agro;
4.Barb has some junk armor with no element resistance or completely not have a element resistance(worst no earth);
Which makes my death very swift.
I do not know what to do any more i like being DD cleric.
Only solution i see make equipment check on other people in my squad before i go with them anywhere.
Please vote if these thing happen to you too
Post edited by Konavi - Sanctuary on
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Best tip is to stick to people you know are decently geared and not suicidal once you find a squad that goes well add them to your Freinds list my freinds list is full of decent clerics barbs venos etc...
I do meet alot of barbs though along my way where I look at them and wonder how the hell they got to there lvl with such minamal HP and poor gear.
Accident's happen though and over agroing is easily done as long as it dont happen to much its not really a major issue the barb should take care of that as long as the squad does not panic and try to kill everything rather than focusing on one mob at a time and letting the barb run around them02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye0 -
None of those should make you feel like the fool. It's the squad/barb/BM/Sin/whatever failing there. Not you.
BH breeds new levels of noobs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
1. What you may consider too many, a more skilled player may find as totally normal. I've seen so many times where a person gathered a full room of mobs or more and before they could get the mobs grouped up together to AoE them, the cleric or random squad members would panic and it would either lead to a wipe, or wind up with the person who was gathering as the only one standing.Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »As a Cleric i feel like a fool when the squad I am in does following things during BH:
1.Aggroes to many mobs at once;
2.Stay incoming bosses way;
3.Barb does not hold agro;
4.Barb has some junk armor with no element resistance or completely not have a element resistance(worst no earth);
Which makes my death very swift.
I do not know what to do any more i like being DD cleric.
Only solution i see make equipment check on other people in my squad before i go with them anywhere.
Please vote if these thing happen to you too
3: Not always the Barb's fault. Some DDs simply don't hold back and the barb can't keep up. Other times, it may be easier for a different class to tank and the barb, knowing this, will let aggro betaken from him and only pull it back if things are looking bad.
4: That totally depends on what the person wants to do. If someone was grinding on mobs that used a certain element and forgot to switch armors beforehand, then that's what you'll wind up seeing.
The whole "DD cleric" thing makes me facepalm, so I won't comment on that. If you wanna avoid bad squads, the only way to do it is avoiding randoms. Otherwise, you're gonna run into one eventually.0 -
As a psychic I have several times unintentionally stole aggro I admit. But once you learn it doesn't take much to use white voodoo and to wait a moment for the others to attack and build aggro. Sometimes it's safe to temporally use black voodoo, but just remember to use white for the majority of the run.
Barbs and clerics just need to be well aware/alert, but a barb with basic level 20 gear and not using flesh ream nor tiger form in a BH 51 run is unarguably a fail barb. A fail cleric is one that dies more than any other squad member, even after letting everyone die a lot themselves.
A fail squad is one that keeps getting wiped, take many hours to clear one boss and still wonder what's wrong.
Clerics should always do their best, but if a fail DD keeps getting themselves killed it's best to lower their priority in favour of the tank and the rest of the team. b:victory
It's easy to blame the cleric or tank, but more than half the time it's a DD's fault.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's easy to blame the cleric or tank, but more than half the time it's a DD's fault.
If a DD screws up, in most cases only the DD will die as a result.
If the tank screws up, in most cases you have a potential wipe unless the off-tank can cover long enough for the tank to res or takeover for the tank.
If the cleric screws up, in most cases you'll have a squad wipe.
That's why, in most cases, it's easy to blame the tank/cleric because it's true. When a DD causes a wipe though (IE: not holding back and taking aggro on an AoE boss which puts the cleric within AoE range and kills them) then they should be just as liable for blame as anyone else.
Edit: And note that I did say most cases. Meaning I'm fully aware of and acknowledge that it's not always what happens, but it is the most common scenario.0 -
DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's easy to blame the cleric or tank, but more than half the time it's a DD's fault.
Very wise words. I admit sometimes I blame the cleric also in the heat of the moment not direct to them but in my head I am flaming them it's only when I get to cool down I can admit maybe I was to blame its a pride thing I guess.02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye0 -
SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »BH breeds new levels of noobs.
Quoted for truth.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
1. What you may consider too many, a more skilled player may find as totally normal. I've seen so many times where a person gathered a full room of mobs or more and before they could get the mobs grouped up together to AoE them, the cleric or random squad members would panic and it would either lead to a wipe, or wind up with the person who was gathering as the only one standing.
Start of BH 51 2 walkers + 3 mobs = 5 mobs,
6 with no patience of us and 5 mob every1 doing 1 and i am healing all of them
ends like i get agro and die.0 -
i do not let any1 die, and i do not let myself die either.DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver wrote: »A fail cleric is one that dies more than any other squad member, even after letting everyone die a lot themselves.
how can i say when i am in wild squad like one i was in today,
deaths rates by my eyes
i die 1x or 2x all others players 3x all of them together.0 -
DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's easy to blame the cleric or tank, but more than half the time it's a DD's fault.
Barb with no earth resistance on 3 star heavy leggings and 3 star heavy leggings chest and 3 star heavy leggings wristguard + doing fushma in bh 51 takes 2x mp to heal then one with it.
i mean stars he can have 20 stars all i care boss does earth damage he is more valuable too for not having that element resistance0 -
Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »As a Cleric i feel like a fool when the squad I am in does following things during BH:
1.Aggroes to many mobs at once;
That's called aoeing and being pro.2.Stay incoming bosses way;
How is this relevant? Srsly?3.Barb does not hold agro;
Blame +30 attack level blessings and fail DDs who don't know how to control their aggro and/or assist attack the barb.4.Barb has some junk armor with no element resistance or completely not have a element resistance(worst no earth);
Onoes no earth rez. Barbs should not be sharding element rez. They should be sharding citrines (or mix in garnets at really low levels).Which makes my death very swift.
I lol'd.I do not know what to do any more i like being DD cleric.
Fail moar? You just /end thread'd this one.Only solution i see make equipment check on other people in my squad before i go with them anywhere.
Yes, because glancing at a persons equipment tells you everything about how pro or noob of a player someone is.Please vote if these thing happen to you too
Bad squads have happened to the best of us.
In this scenario though, sounds to me like both you, and your triple bh/12x hyper xp squads, simply put, fail.
Cool story bro.b:dirty0 -
If a DD screws up, in most cases only the DD will die as a result.
If the tank screws up, in most cases you have a potential wipe unless the off-tank can cover long enough for the tank to res or takeover for the tank.
If the cleric screws up, in most cases you'll have a squad wipe.
That's why, in most cases, it's easy to blame the tank/cleric because it's true. When a DD causes a wipe though (IE: not holding back and taking aggro on an AoE boss which puts the cleric within AoE range and kills them) then they should be just as liable for blame as anyone else.
Edit: And note that I did say most cases. Meaning I'm fully aware of and acknowledge that it's not always what happens, but it is the most common scenario.
This one is smartly made but for great wish to save all my squad members i heal DD's too, which gets me agro and death with slower progress than i could be.
My heal priority:
1. other cleric in squad if one exists
1. Tank, melee fighters
2. DD's = wiz, archers, psyhic
3. me.0 -
Good clerics heal priority:
1) Himself.
2) Tank
3) Everyone else
Not to sound harsh or anything, ijs.b:dirty0 -
Bring me amaters then so i can servive and levelup to 100.Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »That's called aoeing and being pro.
.
hear thisNinnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »How is this relevant? Srsly?
we did rankar and skipped fushma and my squad member "archer" decides to leave squad to get out with timer, but stays in way of fushma incoming.
how the story ends i heal him and run to the exit with fushma after me and died @ 3 pillars for the bosses.
point he servived,but i died had 94% exp.
Thats ok but not having elemental res on 3 armor pieces means he takes a lot more damage from that element than he would with Heavy armor that has all element resistances.Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Onoes no earth rez. Barbs should not be sharding element rez. They should be sharding citrines (or mix in garnets at really low levels).0 -
BM runs through all 5, uses roar to stun, then unloads on AoEs. Other DDs also AoE.Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »Start of BH 51 2 walkers + 3 mobs = 5 mobs,
6 with no patience of us and 5 mob every1 doing 1 and i am healing all of them
ends like i get agro and die.
Alternatively, barb gets them all and roars, then DDs assist barb for quick single kills.
All you described was a bad squad, and in this BH generation that seems to be the norm.
Only time you get aggro from healing a DD is if either the DD didn't already attack a monster (in which case you shouldn't be healing anyways) or if they die (which shouldn't happen in most cases with you healing unless everyone's going off in a different direction).Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »This one is smartly made but for great wish to save all my squad members i heal DD's too, which gets me agro and death with slower progress than i could be.
My heal priority:
1. other cleric in squad if one exists
1. Tank, melee fighters
2. DD's = wiz, archers, psyhic
3. me.
Also, what Ninnuam said is totally true. Your heal priorities should be yourself -> Tank -> Everyone else. The only time that should change is if you know the tank/everyone else well enough to know they'll keep you alive without you needing to worry about yourself much.0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Good clerics heal priority:
1) Himself.
2) Tank
3) Everyone else
Not to sound harsh or anything, ijs.
thx for the advice0 -
Rethink your priorities (and listen to what others here have said about people leveling too fast to learn how to play):
1) Keep self alive! you are the cleric, if you die you are the only one to lose much, and the entire squad is guaranteed to die.
(use plume shell, learn apothecary skill and carry powders that give fast hp or resistance to physical damage, get second wind and holy path on genie, and for crapsake wait until mobs have each been attacked or roar has been used before healing ANYONE)
2) Keep tank alive! If a DD steals aggro, especially on a boss, healing them will not be likely to save their life it just pulls healing off the tank. Wait until the tank can use Invoke the Spirit, stack them with IH and rez the dumb DD, if you can.
3) Die more. You are leveling too fast already if you still don't understand aggro mechanics by level 69.
and before DDs and barbs jump on my **** I also play a 9x sage barb and an 8x psychic, so I do know a bit about aggro contorl from all sides...
Edit: props to Ninnaum on the concise ninjaing
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Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »hear this
we did rankar and skipped fushma and my squad member "archer" decides to leave squad to get out with timer, but stays in way of fushma incoming.
how the story ends i heal him and run to the exit with fushma after me and died @ 3 pillars for the bosses.
point he servived,but i died had 94% exp.
He had timer. You should've left him alone.
Worst case scenario: He died and you ressed him once Fush moved on, saving him EXP loss.
Point in case: My alt in lower level BHs goes with a squad I've come to know quite well. They all know and expect that once I get timer, I'll attack extra mobs, grab huge groups, and generally play around and don't assist me. Worst case is I die, we laugh, and I get ressed. Otherwise, I'll simply poof when timer hits 0 and mobs will reset on their own.0 -
the poll is biased
2 can only be done by a tank
another one should mostly happen with the tank but theres a small chance everyone has for it(to many mobs)
the last one can be for every one(not moving for an aproaching boss)
where are the fail cleric/DD optionsb:puzzled0 -
Thx againSlarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »Rethink your priorities (and listen to what others here have said about people leveling too fast to learn how to play):
1) Keep self alive! you are the cleric, if you die you are the only one to lose much, and the entire squad is guaranteed to die.
(use plume shell, learn apothecary skill and carry powders that give fast hp or resistance to physical damage, get second wind and holy path on genie, and for crapsake wait until mobs have each been attacked or roar has been used before healing ANYONE)
2) Keep tank alive! If a DD steals aggro, especially on a boss, healing them will not be likely to save their life it just pulls healing off the tank. Wait until the tank can use Invoke the Spirit, stack them with IH and rez the dumb DD, if you can.
3) Die more. You are leveling too fast already if you still don't understand aggro mechanics by level 69.
and before DDs and barbs jump on my **** I also play a 9x sage barb and an 8x psychic, so I do know a bit about aggro contorl from all sides...
Edit: props to Ninnaum on the concise ninjaing
1) got those all up already
2) Will do
3) how to say this i do understand them just sometimes u can heal from 20+ m not getting agro, sometimes not depending on mob's attack its a second u heal or not that makes the difference as i see it0 -
BarbLord - Raging Tide wrote: »the poll is biased
2 can only be done by a tank
another one should mostly happen with the tank but theres a small chance everyone has for it(to many mobs)
the last one can be for every one(not moving for an aproaching boss)
where are the fail cleric/DD optionsb:puzzled
sorry, did not bug me so much at these 4 things0 -
Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »hear this
we did rankar and skipped fushma and my squad member "archer" decides to leave squad to get out with timer, but stays in way of fushma incoming.
how the story ends i heal him and run to the exit with fushma after me and died @ 3 pillars for the bosses.
point he servived,but i died had 94% exp.
This is your fault. You should've let the archer die, pure and simple. The boss would reset and continue on his merry go-round. Soon as the boss was far enough, you'd rez the archer and not have a problem.Thats ok but not having elemental res on 3 armor pieces means he takes a lot more damage from that element than he would with Heavy armor that has all element resistances.
I agree to a point; but keep in mind that barbs are melee tanks, as in the damage your barb gets when he gets up close and personal to a boss is 90% physical damage. Constant ironhearting should be more than enough to keep him alive.
Also someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Fushma's rock throwing is actually ranged physical damage, not earth magic (regardless of the animation).b:dirty0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »This is your fault. You should've let the archer die, pure and simple. The boss would reset and continue on his merry go-round. Soon as the boss was far enough, you'd rez the archer and not have a problem.
Also someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Fushma's rock throwing is actually ranged physical damage, not earth magic (regardless of the animation).
Have a hard time to leave people to die while having the powers to save them, but will have to change my behaviour for my hopefully better future.
www.ecatomb.net/ says does Earth,Ranged for fushma, hopeing you are right tho, that he does physical damage to tank in melee combat0 -
Originally Posted by SylenThunder - Sanctuary
BH breeds new levels of noobs.
This is true in that people level quicker so they don't learn how to play properly.
The sheer number of noobs I see now is amazing... I saw a 70 barb today wielding a leg req lv45 hammer, with hardly enough str for tt60 let alone tt70... And almost half an appropriate dex.
That said, I do enjoy BH's regardless of their EXP bonus - it's fun & I enjoy working in a squad to complete a BH. And have actually found that when playing with a new class, BH's have taught me how to do things... how to tank well and to hold back as a DD so-as not to steal aggro...
So yes, BH's breed noobs, but are awesome for non-noobs =]0 -
Konavi - Sanctuary wrote: »Have a hard time to leave people to die while having the powers to save them, but will have to change my behaviour for my hopefully better future.
www.ecatomb.net/ says does Earth,Ranged for fushma, hopeing you are right tho, that he does physical damage to tank in melee combat
It's not just for you, its for your squad... Knowing when to heal is vital, and also helps prevent squad wipes...
E.g. DD runs into hoards of mobs, you heal, get hit, tanks like oh **** & comes to help, as do all the other DD's and all die XD
In that situation if you hadn't healed that one silly DD would have died & nobody else.0 -
My priorities are the tank and myself so I don't worry too much about healing DD's.
They should learn to use some HP pots instead of riding the rollercoaster of free heals and not having any bill after a BH.
I don't do BH's often now though...if I do them I do them with friends who I know are skilled, experienced and have good gear 0 -
It's our job to save people from the mobs, not themselves. Let the idiots die, then dance on their corpse before you rez them.
And all bosses do physical damage in melee range (well a few are pure magic with no physical attacks but you won't have to deal with them any time soon).
What I meant is that most bosses have both magic and physical attacks. At range, they only spam magic. When the tank gets close, its 90% physical with the ocassional magic attack mixed in.
As for Fushma, I remember him two shotting me in the 50s, while I could tank most magic easily. Same with that culti boss just outside fb51, The Architect something. He also throws rocks that hurt like arrows lol.
For reference, i tanked mantavip and that boss in broken plains myself easily, and they're magic. Just figure if Fushma's ranged attack were magic, arcane classes wouldn't be one shots either.b:dirty0 -
As mentioned before heal yourself first, then tank, and theeeeeeen the rest. If a bm (or any other dder) is too stupid to know what aggro is and is trying to be an a$$, let him lear dieb:shutupb:chuckle
Resistance is good sure, but an ok tank with an ok cleric can do a lot of stuffz.
And for all gamers' sake, if you're a clerci.. your primary function is to heal. If there are 2 clerics (or more) you can talk it out who does what. Clerics that DD instead of healing themselves and letting other squad members attack mobs DD like crazy and are surprised they die. Also, dding while healing does not always work. So be sure to talk to your team to work things out.
b:thanks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
XXMonaXx - Heavens Tear wrote: »They should learn to use some HP pots instead of riding the rollercoaster of free heals and not having any bill after a BH.
Your DDs must be spending the whole time standing around looking pretty or something because I don't know of any time I've been in a squad as purely a DD and not had any bill after we were finished.0 -
I am truely scared to do BHs with a random squad on my alt veno (lvl55) b:sad it's no joke!When I got the meaning of melee mixed up:
'Maj.. Melee ffs.. means I'm punching you in the face 1 foot away!'
>.<0
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