Your suggestion for making wizards balanced again...
Taarloor - Harshlands
Posts: 472 Arc User
What do you think they could change to make wizards a more appealing class to play?
(Lets face it, its all BMs, Venos, Sins, nowadays)
I have two ideas:
More chi gained per spell cast:- This is more balanced due to interval gear now so widely used, abd shorter casting times for other magic classes, wizards can build chi at a reasonable rate, also makes Demon path for Wizard more appealing.
Wizard Class specific genie skill:- I think a new genie skill for wizards only that helped survivability either via dmg reduction, or a control move, would help us alot (since u took expel away from us u a$$holes.)
Dont get me wrong I know wizards do great spike damage, and great AoE damage, I dont think we need more damage, but we are nowhere near the top of damage per second anymore. We are still one of the squishiest classes to play, and this needs to change.
(Lets face it, its all BMs, Venos, Sins, nowadays)
I have two ideas:
More chi gained per spell cast:- This is more balanced due to interval gear now so widely used, abd shorter casting times for other magic classes, wizards can build chi at a reasonable rate, also makes Demon path for Wizard more appealing.
Wizard Class specific genie skill:- I think a new genie skill for wizards only that helped survivability either via dmg reduction, or a control move, would help us alot (since u took expel away from us u a$$holes.)
Dont get me wrong I know wizards do great spike damage, and great AoE damage, I dont think we need more damage, but we are nowhere near the top of damage per second anymore. We are still one of the squishiest classes to play, and this needs to change.
Post edited by Taarloor - Harshlands on
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Comments
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Give wizzies stealth and inner harmony.
b:chuckle
invisible BIDS + sutra double ulti (mayhaps triple?) combo.
xD
genie chi skill, chi pot, master li tech, inner harmony = yay?
o wait cooldown.
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What you're doing is comparing a wizard in PVE with other classes when we're clearly a PVP class.
We've got our own advantage in PVE and it's not DPS. Its the ability to be untouched. FoW, WotP, sleep, DS... I can grind any mob you choose for hours without being touched a single time. Yes its slower than other classes with the lack of aoe, but we pay 0 in armor repairs and it takes a good deal of time to get weapon durability down for us.
DPS in PVP is a joke for the most part. Aside from 5.0 fist bms who are purely killing cata-barbs (I've watched a 29K hp barb drop in under 4 seconds from a solo bm with no help), PVP is 100% spike damage. I've got a +10 neon with 2 saph gems & a jones blessing. I can walk around and spam gush > SS and 2 shot 75% of the people I see. Add undine for high hp people or other arcanes and they're still a 2 or 3 shot.
If you want a great PVE character to compete with all the fist/claw/dagger users, you rolled the wrong class. And it's nothing new, interval gear for the most part has always been here, its just not until recently people have been able to take advantage of it due to level and accessability from packs. Our DPS hasn't dropped, others have just caught up & surpassed us.
Keep your wiz on the TW field and wreak havoc. Isn't that why we all rolled a wiz in the first place?0 -
darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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Ehh I'm not sure what you're doing but the 30 attack lvls from jones blessing pretty much benefited wizards the most.0
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TBH Taarloor you just miss a great deal of skill to play your class. You had an edge on many people before just because you casshopped your way to 100 + TT100 wep and loads of gear.
Now people are catching up to you in gear, but already know how to play their class better.
Expel hasn't been taken away from us, i always used it on myself. Meaning sins spark wear off and they just used up all their control skills that makes us sooo squishy to them. After that any sin drops with WoTP + Extreme poison.I'm famous! i'm on ecatomb0 -
Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »TBH Taarloor you just miss a great deal of skill to play your class. You had an edge on many people before just because you casshopped your way to 100 + TT100 wep and loads of gear.
Now people are catching up to you in gear, but already know how to play their class better.
Expel hasn't been taken away from us, i always used it on myself. Meaning sins spark wear off and they just used up all their control skills that makes us sooo squishy to them. After that any sin drops with WoTP + Extreme poison.
Kokki too be honest u listen to other pplz bullshet too much to know anything about me.
Maybe if you actually PvP'd you'd understand what its like nowadays.
I'm asking people who actually PvP, go swing on Ligeia's nuts and act pro.0 -
+10 pwns, orly?
go equip a +5 weapon and see the diference in pvp difficulty :P
+5 weapon /3-4 armor refines are what i call averange/normal
wizard does need some balancing with averange gear (vs averange )
a constant +30 attack lvl does the magic ...
as long as they dont get +30 def lvl blessings too, its balanced, IMO...
(vote for >keep them as it is< in the damn thread >.>)
imagine marrowed bms with 30def blessing -__- they kill u anyways when they get close 30 attlvl or noti like potato0 -
They dont need to make wizards better.
They need to nerf BMs, Sins and Venos.
Sins are already nerfed and now they are ok, but the veno's nix still needs to be nerfed and the attacks per second with fist bms must be dramatically reduced.
The contribution points in the event speak by themselves:
best wizard: around 8000 points
best archer: around 9000 points
best veno: around 9000 points
best sin: around 10000 points
best BM: around 25000 points
25k points... not bad... not bad
If you happy wanna be, against the wind you won't have to pee.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You must have some crappy cashshopped sins on your server. Best BM here had 33k points, and the best geared sin had 50k.Vorhs - Lost City wrote: »best sin: around 10000 points
best BM: around 25000 points
25k points... not bad... not bad
Sins have the highest DPS potential if you build right.
(ofc +12 nirvana daggers, full interval gear and stuff, I think that goes by itself right?)
Also I'm tired of wizards saying they are good at PvP with a +10 lunar or w/e when they are fighting people with +2/+3 armor. Then when a +10 armor barb comes they say "oh that's impossible to take down, let fist BMs take it".
Well newsflash: your gear is +10 offensive, that doesn't mean you are balanced because you attack people with **** defense. Attack someone with similar defensive gear and then you'll see just how hard it is to take down due to our low damage per second.
You'll not be struggling to bypass the charm, you'll be struggling to kill him in 10 seconds after charm ticks.0 -
@Borsuc: You are-completely missing the point. +10 weapon = 1 equip part. +10 armor = like 5 or more equip parts. Take the money you have to pay for four times more +10 and invest it in additional offensive potential. There you go. Just because you think we all are stupid doesn't mean we are.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »You must have some crappy cashshopped sins on your server. Best BM here had 33k points, and the best geared sin had 50k.
Raging Tide has an assassin with a warsoul weapon. If lack of a warsoul weapon makes assassins "crappy" then I suppose you must be right about the other servers.
Meanwhile, personally, my wizard dies to other wizards, and to clerics, far more often than to assassin. But I do not play on Raging Tide. Yay me.0 -
This is getting off topic, I'm not asking for an arguement over whether wizards are balanced or not, I know they arent, the whole idea of a wizard in traditional gaming is vulnrable but big DD. In perfect world we are that, however, its unbalanced by BMs who have higher DD and more survivability and also Sins who have higher DD and better survivability (imagine ur wizard with that stupid second life skill or nerf all dmg to 1 skill, WTF?!?! And that class out DD's you, and stealths..) Of course if all you do is PvE you wont really notice, you'd just be happy you no longer steal aggro in a squad even though theres no barb because the fist BM is holding aggro (without using aggro skills) and you'd be blissfully ignorant like most others that wizards are basicly useless in squads nowadays since they have no buffs to offer and their DD is nothing special (unless its a zhen req. instance) you dont need to comment if you're one of those people.
The people I wanna hear from are people with a few thousand PvP kills, who regularly fight various groups of people and various OP characters from each class, who have an understanding of what simple change could be made to better equal the playing field.0 -
Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »The people I wanna hear from are people with a few thousand PvP kills, who regularly fight various groups of people and various OP characters from each class, who have an understanding of what simple change could be made to better equal the playing field.
No changes are needed. We're not meant for pve or world pvp, because all classes do both of those things better. But NOTHING can replace us in TW. Nothing.
You can check my PK kills and join date if you feel you need confirmation of my experience."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Amour - Lost City wrote: »No changes are needed. We're not meant for pve or world pvp, because all classes do both of those things better. But NOTHING can replace us in TW. Nothing.
You can check my PK kills and join date if you feel you need confirmation of my experience.
I'm sure your words inspire so many to roll a wizard now. b:surrender0 -
Amour - Lost City wrote: »No changes are needed. We're not meant for pve or world pvp, because all classes do both of those things better. But NOTHING can replace us in TW. Nothing.
You can check my PK kills and join date if you feel you need confirmation of my experience.
NOTHING~!!!!!!!!
b:infuriated
BYAARH!
Also Amour has....OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
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Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »Kokki too be honest u listen to other pplz bullshet too much to know anything about me.
Maybe if you actually PvP'd you'd understand what its like nowadays.
I'm asking people who actually PvP, go swing on Ligeia's nuts and act pro.
Anyone who says wiz needs to be balanced are dumb. just at least try to fight someone with equal gear and come back. I did to you before what wiz is all about, with an ulti crit we kill ANYTHING.
@ Borsuc
I'm talking equal geared people. I PvP'ed with TT70 wep and didn't do bad at all. Then i got Aquadash +6 and it really started to get interesting, i really started to do massive damage. And since i got rank 6 it's just game over for alot of people.
I've fought +10 nirvana'ed barbs, and it needs tactic. You can't just expect to gush - pyro and kill them. 1. You need to get them down to 51% ( or as close as possible ) and then ulti them. 2. You crit? it's game over. 3. you don't crit? kite the hell out build chi and repeat from point 1.
That is what wiz always been. Most wizards just became lazy and think they can /faceroll pwn everyone. Wiz is the same as it used to be, kill anything 1 hit, die to anything in 1 hit
If you ever see trailers of any fantasy games, it's always the wiz that finishes of big creatures like dragons, the rest are just there to support and move the dragon into the place so the wiz can blast it into oblivion.I'm famous! i'm on ecatomb0 -
Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »If you ever see trailers of any fantasy games, it's always the wiz that finishes of big creatures like dragons, the rest are just there to support and move the dragon into the place so the wiz can blast it into oblivion.
b:chuckle .i like potato0 -
Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »That is what wiz always been. Most wizards just became lazy and think they can /faceroll pwn everyone. Wiz is the same as it used to be, kill anything 1 hit, die to anything in 1 hit
If you ever see trailers of any fantasy games, it's always the wiz that finishes of big creatures like dragons, the rest are just there to support and move the dragon into the place so the wiz can blast it into oblivion.
Why don't they ever show the big creature one shotting the wizzy?
*others drag/weaken the monster into place*
*wizzy starts channeling uber super spell.*
*big creature notices and steps on the wizzy.*
b:chuckledarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I see your point, perfectly valid btw. Mine was more along the line that melee classes have so much higher dps it's not funny, not that wizards have too low. You can struggle to 1v1 to kill a good tank, but that's not necessarily bad... it's more that fist 5aps people have an easy time with such barbs if they paralyze/stun them that is annoying me (when in fact, they should have a worse job at it than wizzies -- non-elemental advantage and all that rock-paper-scissors thingy).
Cause then again, psychics or other magic classes aren't that much better than wizzies at DPS either... so you can see the problem here is the melee classes, not wizards/magic classes (well except black voodoo and a few other spells)
As for +10 armor, yes I agree that is a lot more expensive... but the thing is, you can't counter it. You can +10 all armor with enough money but you can't upgrade your damage more even if you had money. Which kinda skews the balance for uber rich people (versus uber rich ppl too!). b:sad0 -
lol Kokki you think im QQ'n because I couldnt gush>pyro a 10x barb? You're dumb.
Also saying we're balanced because we can crit ulti (whats ur crit % ? ) is dumb.
Saying the rest of the worlds in trouble now u have a beemhoof is dumb. The "alot of people" you're referring to are the ones with 2x flawless shards in TT90 gear refined to +3 and thats fine, I destroy them too, and if you weren't so dumb you would have read that I'm not asking for more damage, or even DPS, what I'm asking for is something to balance out the class and improve survivability.
If you wanna 1v1 hit me up in game, until then keep ur disrespect to urself.
kthnxbai.0 -
We don't need more survivability... we already have a 100/120/150% defense barrier.
Jesus christ you whine and moan about being so god damn squishy, go try playing an archer. They have half our pdef and a 1/3 of our mdef and a SMIDGE more hp. They only have one decent AoE which requires 2 sparks which is quite difficult for them to build up in the first place.
With blink and stone barrier and force of will we have a better survivability rate than EVERY OTHER CLASS minus barbarian and warrior. Honestly I can't even believe you think mages need a buff in ANY form. Did you oracle to 100? Learn to ****ing play."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
before asking for faster chi building you should have checked SAGE/DEMON more carefully.Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »What do you think they could change to make wizards a more appealing class to play?
(Lets face it, its all BMs, Venos, Sins, nowadays)
I have two ideas:
More chi gained per spell cast:- This is more balanced due to interval gear now so widely used, abd shorter casting times for other magic classes, wizards can build chi at a reasonable rate, also makes Demon path for Wizard more appealing.
Wizard Class specific genie skill:- I think a new genie skill for wizards only that helped survivability either via dmg reduction, or a control move, would help us alot (since u took expel away from us u a$$holes.)
Dont get me wrong I know wizards do great spike damage, and great AoE damage, I dont think we need more damage, but we are nowhere near the top of damage per second anymore. We are still one of the squishiest classes to play, and this needs to change.
Sages 89 chi skill provides you with instant chi ( 50 or 60 to lazy to look it up) + pyrogram ( +30 )which is one of the wiz fast casting skills also gives some extra chi therefore if you want to spark more often you should go SAGE and not DEMON. On the other side demon wiz with get improved channeling and control skills to increase the wiz capabilities in 1v1 or pk. You also should be aware of the fact that any bm/barb is pretty much screwed when they cant manage to get close to you. So learn how to use Distance Shrink and your slow skills. I think adding another control skill isnt necessary but the cooldown of sophoric whisper could be reduced to lets say 45s.
Dmgwise the dps is crappy thats right and psychics are outdmging wiz in pve when they have their voodoo on and spam their skills. Pure dex archers with intervall stuff also be a better dmg dealer but all of them are relatively more squishy compared to a wiz.
greetz harmOwnie0 -
Amour - Lost City wrote: »We don't need more survivability... we already have a 100/120/150% defense barrier.
Jesus christ you whine and moan about being so god damn squishy, go try playing an archer. They have half our pdef and a 1/3 of our mdef and a SMIDGE more hp. They only have one decent AoE which requires 2 sparks which is quite difficult for them to build up in the first place.
With blink and stone barrier and force of will we have a better survivability rate than EVERY OTHER CLASS minus barbarian and warrior. Honestly I can't even believe you think mages need a buff in ANY form. Did you oracle to 100? Learn to ****ing play.
So you go from saying we're not meant for world PvP to saying we have a better survivability rate than any other class sans BM & Barb?
Put down the crack pipe c*nt face0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »before asking for faster chi building you should have checked SAGE/DEMON more carefully.
Sages 89 chi skill provides you with instant chi ( 50 or 60 to lazy to look it up) + pyrogram ( +30 )which is one of the wiz fast casting skills also gives some extra chi therefore if you want to spark more often you should go SAGE and not DEMON. On the other side demon wiz with get improved channeling and control skills to increase the wiz capabilities in 1v1 or pk. You also should be aware of the fact that any bm/barb is pretty much screwed when they cant manage to get close to you. So learn how to use Distance Shrink and your slow skills. I think adding another control skill isnt necessary but the cooldown of sophoric whisper could be reduced to lets say 45s.
Dmgwise the dps is crappy thats right and psychics are outdmging wiz in pve when they have their voodoo on and spam their skills. Pure dex archers with intervall stuff also be a better dmg dealer but all of them are relatively more squishy compared to a wiz.
greetz harmOwnie
I am sage, and even with those skills fist BMs regain their sparks 2x faster, so why not ask for greater chi gain per spell?0 -
Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »So you go from saying we're not meant for world PvP to saying we have a better survivability rate than any other class sans BM & Barb?
Put down the crack pipe c*nt face
Nice lack of logic.
Yes, we do have a good survivability. Our ability to kite is amazing, unmatched. Survivability =/= good in world pvp. We're not great in world pvp because the emphasis on wizards is on AoE ultis and there's rarely a place and a time where you can hit 3+ people with one aoe in world PvP.
Maybe if you leveled your character by grinding fish and defended grind spots via PvP you'd understand the growth and the importance of knowing how to play a wizard. But I really can't expect that from anyone these days so... b:bye hope you enjoyed your oracle baby."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Amour - Lost City wrote: »We don't need more survivability... we already have a 100/120/150% defense barrier.
Jesus christ you whine and moan about being so god damn squishy, go try playing an archer. They have half our pdef and a 1/3 of our mdef and a SMIDGE more hp. They only have one decent AoE which requires 2 sparks which is quite difficult for them to build up in the first place.
With blink and stone barrier and force of will we have a better survivability rate than EVERY OTHER CLASS minus barbarian and warrior. Honestly I can't even believe you think mages need a buff in ANY form. Did you oracle to 100? Learn to ****ing play.Taarloor - Harshlands wrote: »So you go from saying we're not meant for world PvP to saying we have a better survivability rate than any other class sans BM & Barb?
Put down the crack pipe c*nt faceAmour - Lost City wrote: »Nice lack of logic.
Yes, we do have a good survivability. Our ability to kite is amazing, unmatched. Survivability =/= good in world pvp. We're not great in world pvp because the emphasis on wizards is on AoE ultis and there's rarely a place and a time where you can hit 3+ people with one aoe in world PvP.
Maybe if you leveled your character by grinding fish and defended grind spots via PvP you'd understand the growth and the importance of knowing how to play a wizard. But I really can't expect that from anyone these days so... b:bye hope you enjoyed your oracle baby.
Need i say more?
Many people is even the ones with +5 immac gear.
Amour talks about the old times QQ, WTB fish grinding party ^^
Seeing a zerk crit hit from a +10 GX with two perfect garnet shards of "only" 3.8K ( which is 950 damage normal hit ) is just peeing your pants when you blink away and the person sees your charm tick and you start over with your slow skills / build chi / one shot them.
If planned correctly, and kited enough, you will drive people nuts in open world PvP. You want a good training? go PvP uncharmed, and learn to play the class.I'm famous! i'm on ecatomb0 -
Archers are squishy but the only thing that makes me stay away from them is their two barriers. I would honestly trade in stone barrier to get skills that could completely nullify the next hit or two or even get three seconds of immunity. Its not that hard to get defense.
I wouldn't trade my distance shrink or force of will for anything though. They are great and when used together the right way you should just be almost unkillable. Adding in a sleep skill just makes our survivability go through the roof, granted you can't use it too often.
When built up wizards are so OP they should be nerfed. In any TW if there is a wizard and an archer both with high refined gears, people will fear the wizard a lot more than any archer. Any class will suck if they have bad gears. Go get good gear and if you still suck, well you just suck at playing the game.0 -
Haiz - Lost City wrote: »Archers are squishy but the only thing that makes me stay away from them is their two barriers. I would honestly trade in stone barrier to get skills that could completely nullify the next hit or two or even get three seconds of immunity. Its not that hard to get defense.
but stone barrier have long duration and archer barrier and deity 59 skill got only enough short duration. ofc u can recast but eat enough amount of chi and they get slower the chi than us.
but true, they can avoid the most powerfull skills with a skill catsing in good time
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some days ago i was in west archosaur, watching people PK... (Lost City server btw)
then this wizard appeared... she was something around 99-100-101 and pked me 2 times... she 1 hit me with her WotP...
and she easily killed anyone around...
sincerely, she was the most OP player i've ever seen (considering i've never seen a fist BM in action
) but not even a 94 assassin could take her out...
the sin, with a medium damage skill, took our like... 15% of her HP, while she took out 70% of the sin with WotP... then i asked sumone in my fac 'bout her... and they said she was a ****** cashshop *****... they said she was all sharded for PvPing... she she just rocked at it...
and that's it to most wizards... wanna stand out a bit? there's nothing to do but cashshop... PWE, as many people know and/or believe, ruined PWI...0 -
OP ur smoking something friend or ur just trolling. everything uve requested is already out there. im a 100 pure arcane demon wiz with 8k pdef, almost 6k hp, -33% chan, almost unlimited chi, and average dps of 50-60kb:pleased and my gear isnt even complete yet. the only thing the dev's should give us would a a sq worthy buff. this is the link to the thread where i went in2 this more http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=777042
b:byeSo what if we have bad HP, we're Chuck Norris in the damage department!!!!! b:pleased
If your going into an fb and the Barb screams "LEEROY JENKINS" as he runs into the cave, leave the party. It's only going to get worse from then on.b:shocked
Nef is all but a memory. Pwi may once again sleep peacefullyb:pleased0
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