GM/Dev's Ignoring the Community

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide · June 2010

I am hoping to get some sort of explanation from your selves regarding the blatant ignorance of certain threads within this forum. There have been several threads made and discussed fully between the player base but very rarely does anyone of any importance actually stand up and speak to us the only time I have seen this happen was the DQ thread.

I am actually starting to believe others when they say that the developers do not actually care. I have worked within a gaming community before that hosted several different games part of my duties was to listen to the player base suggestions complaints and ideas and make sure they felt like there opinions was being heard by passing over the concerns/ideas to the relevant departments something that does not seem to happen here or if it does its not transparent enough for us to see whats happening.

I could sit here and list many of the threads I am talking about that I have seen a lot of people raise very good points (as well as bad ones) and just find it amazing that at no time did a GM/Dev give there input on the matter or go off to find more information for us

Is the #1 rule to being a GM/Dev within the PWI community to ignore any thread that could seem like a concern from the player base? I mean who actually around here makes the decisions and decides when an official statement should be made?

While I appreciate the workload you have is most likely high and overwhelming at times IMO does not excuse you to ignore the player base when it raises concerns with you and I also understand that not every thread will be a valid concern but when a thread reaches a certain amount of pages surely it dignifies a response at the very least

I do not appreciate being made to feel undervalued when I am investing time and money in to something.

Please keep this constructive if you post here if you do not agree with me tell me why and dont bash the devs/gm's lets keep it cival.

Tatuaje - Lost City · June 2010

+10 for making a wall of text very readable. Its actually a rare situation of that happening here.

On topic: I have no idea what to really say. I got response from a GM when I needed it so.....

Darksylph - Heavens Tear · June 2010

The main problem here is that we are a mere subsidiary of the game. The game itself is produced & developed in China, for the China version, by PW-Beijing. That version has their own message boards, which from my understanding, seem to have greater interaction with the development team, as well as fuller patch notes and the like.

Here the only thing any PWE devs do is translation and localization, as well as the marketting department here has seperate control over the cash shop, sales, & what gets introduced there. Actual in-game changes are not handled on this side of the pacific ocean.

So the devs may indeed listen to their player base, which they consider to be the players in China, and not us....

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · June 2010

I have stopped wondering about that matter after a while...

But I still get curious about why GMs here have not firmly brought some issues (the relevant ones, not the silly requests) to the devs for them to be corrected, or made a stand for the uniqueness of the version of PW that PWI makes (I am talking about DQs here). They are attached (in terms of feelings, as it is not 'a simple job') to PWI, no?

Trust me, I agree with you, I like what GMs do here, in terms of swiftly banning scammers (I submitted many tickets of token of luck scammers and they were wiped out fast) among other things, but the interface with the community (even on these forums) still remains restraint...
And I do mean talk, not disciplinarian measures.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · June 2010

GMs tell most of our suggestions to Dev's. They get so many suggestions that if they implement all that, it would take years to implement all that. Not to mention that in Dev's eyes: CN players suggestions >>> ours.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear · June 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

GMs tell most of our suggestions to Dev's. They get so many suggestions that if they implement all that, it would take years to implement all that. Not to mention that in Dev's eyes: CN players suggestions >>> ours.

Well, skimming through the more relevant ones should not be a problem.

Mosz - Heavens Tear · June 2010

this is a warning for all franchised/lisenced games, happens on the majority of them i played
to run a lisenced game you hire managers not actual developers, so yah ;/

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide · June 2010

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The main problem here is that we are a mere subsidiary of the game. The game itself is produced & developed in China, for the China version, by PW-Beijing. That version has their own message boards, which from my understanding, seem to have greater interaction with the development team, as well as fuller patch notes and the like.

Here the only thing any PWE devs do is translation and localization, as well as the marketting department here has seperate control over the cash shop, sales, & what gets introduced there. Actual in-game changes are not handled on this side of the pacific ocean.

So the devs may indeed listen to their player base, which they consider to be the players in China, and not us....

Then Perfect World Entertainment need to actualy start kicking up a fuss if they are not getting things introduced that the community is asking for like you said we have little communication with the Beijing Devs but that does not mean we should be ignored completley I am sure there is either a % of sales or a set amount going to Beijing Perfect World meaning we to are there customers and they should treat us as such.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · June 2010

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The main problem here is that we are a mere subsidiary of the game. The game itself is produced & developed in China, for the China version, by PW-Beijing. That version has their own message boards, which from my understanding, seem to have greater interaction with the development team, as well as fuller patch notes and the like.

What ^^ said.

Also, note that a lot of the stuff here IS actually listened to by the staff on a general consensus basis. They don't have the time, effort, resources or need/desire to listen to every individual forum gripe/suggestion. They most likely do take note of general feelings towards subjects, must like politicians do, but they can't be asked or be expected to do any more than that.

If you want your voice heard, participate on the CN forums and make your suggestions there.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide · June 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

They don't have the time, effort, resources or need/desire to listen to every individual forum gripe/suggestion.

Then that is a problem they need to address don't forget this is a company using the excuse we don't have the man power to deal with it is not excusable and plans should be put in place to make it so there is enough man power to deal with it and not having the desire to post a response to a concern from your customers is in no way excusable under any circumstances.

As mentiond above I dont expect them to respond to every post but when I see a thread reach a large size and no word for any one of any importance looks like neglect of duties to me.

Ranfa - Dreamweaver · June 2010

I'd be happy if they actually replied to concerns made. Usually complaint threads are left running a trail full of rages and outcries with no sign of a GM response anywhere. I wouldn't think it's hard to at least take these complaints to the Devs and get a straight answer, whether yes or no. At least then, players know that their GMs actually do listen to them even if they do not have the power to grant their wishes. That's more assuring than not.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · June 2010

They don't ignore you....at least not completely.
._.'
You can has all class pet hamsters.
b:avoid

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd be happy if they actually replied to concerns made. Usually complaint threads are left running a trail full of rages and outcries with no sign of a GM response anywhere. I wouldn't think it's hard to at least take these complaints to the Devs and get a straight answer, whether yes or no. At least then, players know that their GMs actually do listen to them even if they do not have the power to grant their wishes. That's more assuring than not.

Agreed. The worse parts are the threads that have relevant concerns getting closed by a mod or a gm and even then, they did not have a response for the topic, its more like they closed it because of other reasons. Even a simple, "I would talk to the people who can fix it" would help us a lot.

Not that they ignores us all the time, they have responded on a few topics in the past like the horns, dq's price reduction.

Btw, is the 2x exp but 1x drops a result of the community here or just a random typo or even something that they are aware of but cant explain? ....

Malei - Sanctuary · June 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

They don't ignore you....at least not completely.
._.'
You can has all class pet hamsters.
b:avoid

Hamsta, sweetie. Most pay money for this game. The least they can do is answer questions from their paying customers.[Even the non-cs are paying customers, paying with time and popularity of the game] Ignoring the player base is the last thing that should be on their agenda.

That's like me coming into Burger King, buying a Whopper, and only getting it plain instead of the works. I go back into the Burger King, ask them what happened, and no one answers. Instead, they ignore me. Think I'll go back to that Burger King?

Customer Service isn't one of PWE's forte...

I_am_a_Dude_ - Harshlands · June 2010

Communication is key. As with all businesses, they have to prioritize the bugs and suggestions against what will deliver more value (revenue) to the company. You cannot fault PWI for that.

On the other hand, a simple communication stating that they heard us will satisfy me to the point of being content. At least for a while until nothing comes from those suggestions / complaints.

Bottomline, COMMUNICATE TO US!!!!!

Michael_Dark - Lost City · June 2010

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then that is a problem they need to address don't forget this is a company using the excuse we don't have the man power to deal with it is not excusable and plans should be put in place to make it so there is enough man power to deal with it and not having the desire to post a response to a concern from your customers is in no way excusable under any circumstances.

As mentiond above I dont expect them to respond to every post but when I see a thread reach a large size and no word for any one of any importance looks like neglect of duties to me.

Where have you been then, in most of the larger threads, mods and GMs do respond.

However, GMs and Mods are not part of the development team. The development team is in China. At most they take general consensus and hand that to the devs who may or may not care. Go to the CN forums and whine and complain if you want to be directly heard, or submit a ticket. Posting on the forums asking for change is a lot like trying to start an internet petition. Nobody cares.

/thread

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Where have you been then, in most of the larger threads, mods and GMs do respond.

However, GMs and Mods are not part of the development team. The development team is in China. At most they take general consensus and hand that to the devs who may or may not care. Go to the CN forums and whine and complain if you want to be directly heard, or submit a ticket. Posting on the forums asking for change is a lot like trying to start an internet petition. Nobody cares.

/thread

Not everything. I believe the 30 atk level blessing is an example of what PWI has control over.

Olba - Sanctuary · June 2010

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's like me coming into Burger King, buying a Whopper, and only getting it plain instead of the works. I go back into the Burger King, ask them what happened, and no one answers. Instead, they ignore me. Think I'll go back to that Burger King?

I totally would, for the wings.

And besides, the reasons for the minimal contact are obvious. For one, a GM replying is usually taken as some kind of a sign about a change to come. That's bad and should be avoided. For two, it's not like a GM can do much except bring the issue up in some meeting or so. For three, PWI is, even as it is, highly profitable and therefore there's no need to change it, from a money-making point of view. After all, "Don't fix what's not broken", right? Finally, it's not like this "mass exodus to some other MMO" that has been threatened by people when we had Anni Packs, when we started getting more frequent 2x Drops, the Tiger Packs, Lucky Corals, Sunshine Packs, etc. So it's pretty much already proven that whatever they do, it's not gonna kill the game.

A pretty dark picture, but who knows.

frankieraye · June 2010

I do make it a point to go through all threads that bring up player concerns, but I don't post on all of them, so I can see why you might feel that we're ignoring you.

In the rush to get you guys an actual solution to an issue, it's sometimes easy to forget that a simple post from GM acknowledging your concern would go a long way toward letting you guys know that we are always here and interested in what you have to say.

Thanks for bringing this up here

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Nobody cares.

/thread

yea, but topic is about- why nobody cares?

gms arent random forums users but employees of pwe company

it seems like they really cant do much and are left on thier own here by us or cn management to just 'deal' with people

maybe thats why many peez here almost feel sorry for them (waves to Rose b:chuckle)

i worked in company who had their clients in **** a bit, and i had to deal with clients too.
even if 80% of them were just ranting i never took much offence, because they were right.
ofc i couldnt ever say that, so i just was getting rid of them by some general assuance **** in more or less polite way.

pretty much like here b:pleased

tweakz · June 2010

Any little change in the game is going to get an outcry of complaints: most of which aren't even valid or worth responding to.

Kaneharo - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Well, if I'm not mistaken, the GMs can't be blamed. If I'm not mistaken, I remember one of them saying that the devs weren't even going to give them the power to do what they can do now.

Krisnda - Lost City · June 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

I do make it a point to go through all threads that bring up player concerns, but I don't post on all of them, so I can see why you might feel that we're ignoring you.

In the rush to get you guys an actual solution to an issue, it's sometimes easy to forget that a simple post from GM acknowledging your concern would go a long way toward letting you guys know that we are always here and interested in what you have to say.

Thanks for bringing this up here

I do have to say that I appreciate the comment made here and the efforts made to keep the players informed, however i do have to say that some of the people here may think that you guys (the GM's) only post like one or two times just to get people to calm down, and are really not saying if anything is going to be done or not about certain subjects. No im not bashing the GM's, i just think that this game, these forums (And i do understand that you guys have other games that you look after) need a well deserved makeover.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · June 2010

The only area of these forums I know i'll get a response from a helpful GM is the technical support area b:surrender

The rest of the area's, unless the thread is stickied by a mod/GM they almost never respond to a thread.

volst · June 2010

If you guys mean the jones blessing, if you looked at the polls, the votes are split pretty evenly. No reason for GMs to act since the majority doesn't want it gone.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · June 2010

The developers do care.
Most just don't understand English because their primary language be Chinese.
b:chuckle

Okie frankie, you know what must be done.
b:avoid

Interact moar with the masses and increase feedback sent back to the developers at china.
b:avoid
(although don't send everything back as feedback.....completely crippled one of the games me has invaded.....)
._.'

Just use the Socrates/Plato method. (Masses be damned, reasoning first, etc etc)

Quilue - Sanctuary · June 2010

frankie needs to change his avatar back to a female archer

MagicHamsta - Lost City · June 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

frankie needs to change his avatar back to a female archer

+1
Moar confoosion to the masses!
b:avoid

Michael_Dark - Lost City · June 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not everything. I believe the 30 atk level blessing is an example of what PWI has control over.

Yeah, that is an example over something they have control over and I'm fairly certain it, along with the backlogged stash will be removed sometime in the near future.

I'm also fairly certain that we didn't get 2x drops with the latest 2x exp/spirit event because of how it negatively affects the server economy.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yea, but topic is about- why nobody cares?

gms arent random forums users but employees of pwe company

i worked in company who had their clients in **** a bit, and i had to deal with clients too.
even if 80% of them were just ranting i never took much offence, because they were right.
ofc i couldnt ever say that, so i just was getting rid of them by some general assuance **** in more or less polite way.

pretty much like here b:pleased

Apparently you didn't read my whole post. They do care, but they don't need to go around assuring everyone that they do care every 5 minutes someone feels like QQing. They read the threads, they know what the general trends are... some situations they have no real control over, but others they pass the opinions down the pipeline and eventually we get a change. This is corporate business, not a mom and pop bagel store. If you have a problem with your bagel, mom and pop will take care of your concerns themselves. In a corporate environment, the GMs are indeed employees, but their job is to take care of in-game issues dealing with hackers, cheaters, rules violators and the like. It is not their job to directly take opinion polls and make changes, that's not their job. If you have a concern, send in a ticket. QQing on a forum isn't going to help unless it's quite a large group of people. Your typical whining thread with 20-40 posts does not influence much of anything.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · June 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Apparently you didn't read my whole post. They do care, but they don't need to go around assuring everyone that they do care every 5 minutes someone feels like QQing. They read the threads, they know what the general trends are... some situations they have no real control over, but others they pass the opinions down the pipeline and eventually we get a change. This is corporate business, not a mom and pop bagel store. If you have a problem with your bagel, mom and pop will take care of your concerns themselves. In a corporate environment, the GMs are indeed employees, but their job is to take care of in-game issues dealing with hackers, cheaters, rules violators and the like. It is not their job to directly take opinion polls and make changes, that's not their job. If you have a concern, send in a ticket. QQing on a forum isn't going to help unless it's quite a large group of people. Your typical whining thread with 20-40 posts does not influence much of anything.

ofc it s their job. it s forum where hundreds of players are posting their opinions everyday

why the hell only tickets are supposed to be valid way to pass ur opinion? o0

and we are talking about dozens of big topics about ruined game balance, economy or evident support for power leveling and almost no bug fixes.

not about 2 page long topic of some random QQer

just read few random topics to check what is atmopshere around here.

pwe management is in very comfy situation. noboby know who really is in charge here - department here or in china. It s almost like they were 'invisible' - unattainable.

only contact u have with pwe are gms which cant do much -they are here just to keep order and deal with people.

pwe after some time of publishing good game (which pw was) and gettng big player base, decided to earn quick money to develop more games and gain new market spots.
So they add new content which greatly changes game. People are asking WTH? - and gms can just reply 'ur concerns will be taken into consideration and passed farther' or just remain silent..

lol..

if they could be sincere they would just reply something like 'sftu, pwe is making money, suck it up- it wont be better'

If im getting ur post right -thats pretty much is what ur trynig to say. But still i dunno (and seems that OP too) why it should be like that.

and also i dont understand why we should contact with china (post on china forums). i really dont get that part.

if u have some issues with laptop then u go to nearest customer service point, You dont really have to fly to taiwan where manufacturer is...

anyway, pwe will add more **** and pretend they dont see QQ. They just need to be cautious to not go too far like f.e. with horns.

And last QQ about blessings? It is obvious that it muchly influenced pvp and pve, but there is still no offical statement about how long blessings gonna last, or will stacked disapear. Atm QQ is bearable for pwe and they are busy with counting new friends on facebook..

imo this forum is best place to QQ. if u submit ticket then only tech support will read it. if enough ppl will QQ here then pwe risk that some new players will read it and decide to not play the game.. means they will have to care a tiny bit more maybe

Michael_Dark - Lost City · June 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ofc it s their job. it s forum where hundreds of players are posting their opinions everyday

why the hell only tickets are supposed to be valid way to pass ur opinion? o0

just read few random topics to check what is atmopshere around here.

Ok, is it their job to hold everyone's hand individually about game concerns that don't relate to cheating, glitches or other gameplay issues? NO it isn't.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

imo this forum is best place to QQ. if u submit ticket then only tech support will read it.

If you have a concern, a ticket is the only way you will get a direct answer to your question. Apparently you have no idea what you're talking about or how the ticketing system actually works. Ugh....

Your English drives me nuts. /facepalm

GM/Dev's Ignoring the Community

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