HP Charm (Personal preference)

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

A heal that's instant and doesn't require the cleric to stop healing whoever they're healing, doing whatever they're doing, doesn't cost them valuable MP, and has no casting/channeling time? Yes please.

If you're in a situation where that's really necessary, you're either boned already or not good enough at the class in my opinion.

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

If a tank needs constant heals because his gear isn't quite good enough for the instance, but a wandering mob aggros you, how are you going to stay alive without a charm?

Sleep it? Freeze it? Plume Shell? 79 shields if applicable? Hell even Blue Bubble will suffice sometimes. I don't know if I've ever seen a wandering mob around a boss except Farren Sereneti and the two first 51 bosses. If you're talking about wandering mobs in general, well, it's even less important with no boss involved.

I also don't think I've ever seen a tank with gear so awful that even his base HP doesn't make up for it, and I've been in quite a few pitiful pickup groups. Not to mention, unless you zoom the camera in all the way to play from a first person view with only a tiger's **** in your line of sight, any decent cleric should be aware of and ready for whatever's approaching the party; the AI of those tricky wandering mobs isn't exactly stellar.

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Well I guess in that situation I would be the one still alive, preventing a party wipe, while you would be dead because your moral standards are too high to justify putting a "healing skill" on your genie, despite the help it can be.

My moral standards aren't too high. My cleric skills are too high. I'm not even being sarcastic. Why would I waste a genie skill on something I can do better? Maybe there is some kind of "honor" involved in what I think, but I just find it laughable when a cleric uses a genie skill instead of just handling the situation like a cleric should. I'm not trying to deny its usefulness, though; it just seems like something a cleric in particular would use if he or she hasn't learned the class well enough yet.

Who would you prefer to have in your party?
1. A cleric who's apparently oblivious to the surroundings and jams on a genie skill when getting whacked (this happens to be what you described)
2. A cleric who's already two steps ahead of what's happening and planning accordingly (this happens to be me)

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Any time you're too busy healing someone else to heal yourself, Second Wind is a lifesaver to have if you're uncharmed. Anyone who chooses not to put it on their genie because of some principle that clerics shouldn't have healing skills on their genie are gimping themselves for a silly reason. I don't look at skills and think "I shouldn't use that because I'm a cleric and it heals, I'm only allowed to heal myself using my own heals", I think "Will this skill be useful to me?"

Do you also look down on clerics that have a stack of event HP pots just in case?

You know what else is a lifesaver? Knowing what you're doing. I got like two HP charms before I realized I was wasting money (strictly pve, mind you). I've spent a long time learning my class in and out, and I truly have 0 need for such a genie skill.

Potions are potions. I don't remember the last time I used one except a nasty HH boss who hits like a truck through BB. I don't do HH often, though, and I warned my guild mates. I'm quite humble about my abilities until I have a good grasp on the instance which is probably part of the reason I ain't need no newfangled genie. Event HP pots seem like overkill for a cleric unless we're talking that one boss in Frost who randomly puts a bubble around someone (I don't do that much, either).

I don't have a problem with leaning on a crutch while you're learning certain areas, but, after a while, you gotta learn how to actually do it or get a second cleric who does know.

Not quoting to avoid stretching the page more since it was a long reply.

So you're basically saying that you assume you're going to be able to avoid the mob, that your heals will always be enough even in higher level instances, that the tanks you're with are always going to be high enough level/have good enough gear to easily take on the instance, that you'll have sufficient MP to be able to cast heals on yourself, and that you'll have sufficient time to cast a heal on yourself? That's ideal, of course. It happens. But so do mistakes, from others and yourself. You not only have to be prepared to handle the ideal situations, but the not-so-ideal. I remember when I was high 6x, with a low 7x cleric and a low 7x BM tanking FB69. Even with both our heals and neither one of us AoE healing, just using pots or genie skills to survive, he still died over and over and it took forever for us to be able to manage killing the bosses. Non-ideal situation. I guess you would just die, since you're relying on skills that require you to actually be able to cast your heals on yourself. Or you never would have been in that situation because you'll refuse to attempt anything that might be beyond what you should be healing at that point?

Side note: If you don't do frost and don't do HH, are you basing this experience off of BHs only? Because BHs are stupid easy, ijs. I'm not saying use Second Wind in BHs, but in situations that actually would be made easier by it.

Aadi wrote:

So you're basically saying that you assume you're going to be able to avoid the mob, that your heals will always be enough even in higher level instances, that the tanks you're with are always going to be high enough level/have good enough gear to easily take on the instance, that you'll have sufficient MP to be able to cast heals on yourself, and that you'll have sufficient time to cast a heal on yourself? That's ideal, of course. It happens. But so do mistakes, from others and yourself. You not only have to be prepared to handle the ideal situations, but the not-so-ideal.

Jeez, so much I already covered. I already said I don't assume I'm going to be able to handle the situation until I've handled it successfully before. It's not like any instance changes its layout on a whim, be it BH, Frost, HH, or whatever, so things become predictable even with a dumb squad. With that said, most people with functioning brains can figure out how to react even when things "go wrong" unless it's just a supernova that leaves everyone dead.

If you go with a tank who is so gimped he can't handle the instance, you're doomed to start with. Whether you have skills or genie skills, you're screwed. For BH, who you get is a coin flip, but it's easy. For anything else, I don't go with random people until I'm totally comfortable with the place. That's just me, though, and it's why I'm confident in my ability with random squads.

Aadi wrote:

I remember when I was high 6x, with a low 7x cleric and a low 7x BM tanking FB69. Even with both our heals and neither one of us AoE healing, just using pots or genie skills to survive, he still died over and over and it took forever for us to be able to manage killing the bosses. Non-ideal situation. I guess you would just die, since you're relying on skills that require you to actually be able to cast your heals on yourself. Or you never would have been in that situation because you'll refuse to attempt anything that might be beyond what you should be healing at that point?

I've tried solo and dual healing a BM for Polearm. It just doesn't work. A BM will have about half (at best) or a third of a barb's HP, and sometimes there's a vital fraction of a second between pressing the button and the purify happening due to lag. I would not be in that situation because I know it's pointless to try. There's a difference between trying hard things and trying stupid things.

Aadi wrote:

Side note: If you don't do frost and don't do HH, are you basing this experience off of BHs only? Because BHs are stupid easy, ijs. I'm not saying use Second Wind in BHs, but in situations that actually would be made easier by it.

I do, just not often. All of my early experience with Frost, and some HH, was difficult and discouraging, but nothing I couldn't handle with more experience. I'm human, just like every other cleric*, but everything's straightforward after enough practice which is why some people can stand doing Frost or HH the whole damn day.

* Okay, clerics are elves.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

No amount of skill, pots, heals, genies, etc will prevent you and/or your party if things go wrong.

LOL, I have seen squads of 100+ wipe, but I have also seen entire parties wipe but myself ...not because of heals, but because of the ability to survive/kite/run/etc.

Being a cleric has a lot of instinctual qualities to it. You have to not only watch out for yourself, but you have to be literally aware of everything (this until you know the instance/ppl/etc...blah you know what I mean).

* Have I used charms = yup and usually have but they last forever.....
* Have I used hp pots = damn straight and I have no shame in admitting to that
* Have I used apoth immunity pots = damn straight
* Have I run to save myself and let eveyone else die = yes, they get a free no exp loss res and no need to wait for me to come back (if no res scroll) if I do not die

Now...would I ever have Second Wind on my Genie? No...mainly because I am not a fan of Str Genies on Clerics b:surrender This does not mean that it might not work for others. TBH though, in a pinch or if lazy I would just rather use a pot and save a slot on my Genie for a better skill (imo).

To each their own....it does not make them a "bad" Cleric though...

You seem to share my opinion for the most part, but I'm sure you disagree somewhere. I'm well aware that things can go completely wrong, but it's typically in random, uncoordinated groups. In that case, there's only so much a cleric can do (with genie or without). Like I said above, I don't put that burden upon myself until I know the place well; that way, disasters will be smaller in scale.

I don't necessarily think Second Wind or anything of the sort makes someone a "bad" cleric, just a lazy one I would not count on 100%. Whenever I'm doing my cleric job, I strive to be as close to that 100% as possible with all 5 other squad members, and playing my class rather than my genie gets me plenty of friend invites. Call me stuck up if you want, but it works for me and the people in my party.

Fruitluips - Lost City wrote: »

Jeez, so much I already covered. I already said I don't assume I'm going to be able to handle the situation until I've handled it successfully before. It's not like any instance changes its layout on a whim, be it BH, Frost, HH, or whatever, so things become predictable even with a dumb squad. With that said, most people with functioning brains can figure out how to react even when things "go wrong" unless it's just a supernova that leaves everyone dead.

If you go with a tank who is so gimped he can't handle the instance, you're doomed to start with. Whether you have skills or genie skills, you're screwed. For BH, who you get is a coin flip, but it's easy. For anything else, I don't go with random people until I'm totally comfortable with the place. That's just me, though, and it's why I'm confident in my ability with random squads.


I've tried solo and dual healing a BM for Polearm. It just doesn't work. A BM will have about half (at best) or a third of a barb's HP, and sometimes there's a vital fraction of a second between pressing the button and the purify happening due to lag. I would not be in that situation because I know it's pointless to try. There's a difference between trying hard things and trying stupid things.


I do, just not often. All of my early experience with Frost, and some HH, was difficult and discouraging, but nothing I couldn't handle with more experience. I'm human, just like every other cleric*, but everything's straightforward after enough practice which is why some people can stand doing Frost or HH the whole damn day.

* Okay, clerics are elves.


I don't necessarily think Second Wind or anything of the sort makes someone a "bad" cleric, just a lazy one I would not count on 100%. Whenever I'm doing my cleric job, I strive to be as close to that 100% as possible with all 5 other squad members, and playing my class rather than my genie gets me plenty of friend invites. Call me stuck up if you want, but it works for me and the people in my party.

We did end up killing all three bosses in 69 with the BM, even underleveled, so I guess "just doesn't work" isn't the phrase you're looking for there? Maybe you'd like something like "is much harder than tanking with a barb", or "only works in rare occasions"?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I haven't had any party say a word to me if/when I use Second Wind, and I highly doubt many people used that to base whether or not to send me a friend request. I guess I just like to play it on the safe side and always have HP pots, healing genie skills, and everything that might help me in case of trouble.

How do two clerics not heal a BM on pole
o.o

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

A heal that's instant and doesn't require the cleric to stop healing whoever they're healing, doing whatever they're doing, doesn't cost them valuable MP, and has no casting/channeling time? Yes please.

O____O *blinks* SMH. just.......SMH, omg, lmao

I saw yall's back and forth, and I totally agree with Fruit, and I don't think she's stuck up at all. Just logical.
...one important thing yall missed (or maybe I just think you did, idk). WELLSPRING. It's almost instant, barely takes any MP, and if properly leveled (which I assume it is at yall's levels) can heal over half your HP. Spam that a few times and you're back to full health, and by then hopefully someone noticed that a mob was bashing you (almost) to death.
Also, if you need to stop healing to heal yourself, its all the more reason for the squad to come to your rescue. If anyone should have a charm equipped, its the tank, who can take a few unhealed hits while the squad helps you out.

oh, and also, the bit about the gear just made me LAUGH. i laughed my **** off. gear adds to an already good player, who is made good by gameplay experience and ONLY THAT. Not high level, not awesome gear, not charms.

Me specifically, I try not to use HP charms unless I'm given one by a quest or something, sell my HP pots, and only have Holy Path on my genie. No HP food either, but I love MP charms. ^__^

oh yeah, about the BM. There's nothing wrong with a BM tanking bosses. If all ended well, I don't see what the hubbub is about. Seems like yall just needed to get used to each other in squad or somethin, ijs.

Like I said, agree to disagree. I just prefer to be prepared for as many situations as possible, and imo having the ability to heal yourself without having to stop anything you're doing can be very helpful. Although most of the time I don't have to use it, the few times I have had to, I've been very glad it's there.

Edit: I can understand why you wouldn't use it Reichle, I'm not sure at your level I can think of any instances where you would find that you need it. I don't think I even used my genie back then b:chuckle

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

O____O *blinks* SMH. just.......SMH, omg, lmao

I saw yall's back and forth, and I totally agree with Fruit, and I don't think she's stuck up at all. Just logical.
...one important thing yall missed (or maybe I just think you did, idk). WELLSPRING. It's almost instant, barely takes any MP, and if properly leveled (which I assume it is at yall's levels) can heal over half your HP. Spam that a few times and you're back to full health, and by then hopefully someone noticed that a mob was bashing you (almost) to death.
Also, if you need to stop healing to heal yourself, its all the more reason for the squad to come to your rescue. If anyone should have a charm equipped, its the tank, who can take a few unhealed hits while the squad helps you out.

oh, and also, the bit about the gear just made me LAUGH. i laughed my **** off. gear adds to an already good player, who is made good by gameplay experience and ONLY THAT. Not high level, not awesome gear, not charms.

Me specifically, I try not to use HP charms unless I'm given one by a quest or something, sell my HP pots, and only have Holy Path on my genie. No HP food either, but I love MP charms. ^__^

oh yeah, about the BM. There's nothing wrong with a BM tanking bosses. If all ended well, I don't see what the hubbub is about. Seems like yall just needed to get used to each other in squad or somethin, ijs.

A few issues to address...

1.) Almost instant =/= instant. The short cast time of Wellspring can still be canceled, and will be from time to time. It also requires you to be in a position to actually cast it (I.E. Not stunned, slept, sealed, channeling BB etc). While such things aren't much of an issue in lower levels, it does become a concern in higher ones.

2.) Once you get to 75, MP charms are a complete waste when compared to Herb Yuanxiao. Or even at 25 if you happen to have access to Sesames. Hell...eventually you'll reach a point where you'll seldom even need those outside of really tough instances, so long as you find a decent squad.

Annnnnnnyways...

Personally, I love HP charms (and MP charms back when they were fairly cheap and Yuanxiao weren't an option), but way too much is wasted to be obsessive about keeping them equipped at this level (wasted almost 1mil of a Platinum learning how to AoE grind cuz too lazy to piece together specialized gear, alongside just being lazy about self-healing). So I opted to stock HP pots and learn genie skills for real pinches (currently hoarding about 3k HP pots/foods of varying strength) instead.