End-game Wizard vs end-game fist BM... who usually wins?
Michael_Dark - Lost City
Posts: 9,091 Arc User
I know there has to be a few of you with some experience fighting fist BMs at endgame and would like to ask this.
Fist BM vs Mage with comparable gear, both with all the important lvl 11 skills. Skill being about equal. Genie skills, PK pots, everything at your disposal... Basically a CS mage vs CS fist/claw.
My question is, how well do you fare against them?
Please feel free to add your comments; difficult battles, techniques you use, techniques they use against you; how you fare against better or worse geared players, stories, or whatever. Just curious...
Fist BM vs Mage with comparable gear, both with all the important lvl 11 skills. Skill being about equal. Genie skills, PK pots, everything at your disposal... Basically a CS mage vs CS fist/claw.
My question is, how well do you fare against them?
Please feel free to add your comments; difficult battles, techniques you use, techniques they use against you; how you fare against better or worse geared players, stories, or whatever. Just curious...
I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
Post edited by Michael_Dark - Lost City on
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Comments
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Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »I know there has to be a few of you with some experience fighting fist BMs at endgame and would like to ask this.
Fist BM vs Mage with comparable gear, both with all the important lvl 11 skills. Skill being about equal. Genie skills, PK pots, everything at your disposal... Basically a CS mage vs CS fist/claw.
My question is, how well do you fare against them?
Please feel free to add your comments; difficult battles, techniques you use, techniques they use against you; how you fare against better or worse geared players, stories, or whatever. Just curious...
Well Fist BMs and harshlands are super duper smart and have evasion belt + neck and have 0mdef and +8 HH100 Fist. Pretty mush all 1 shots0 -
If you want it to be between two great players geared to the teeth, it depends on who gets the first control skill off. Sleep vs Roar fight ftw. I'd give the nod to the mage however for distance, I think, but if mage misses the one shot, he's ****ed.
So now that I think about it, just say it's based on who has the most chi at the time. From my experience, most BMs will demon spark before even trying to attack, so you can pretty much see them coming and kill them since they won't have chi for will of bodhi.
If the mage, at any point, sees "resist" pop up on their screen or if they get stunned, they should just go afk while waiting to die.0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »Well Fist BMs and harshlands are super duper smart and have evasion belt + neck and have 0mdef and +8 HH100 Fist. Pretty mush all 1 shots
so pro!
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If the BM has occult ice and it works, they will win. If occult ice fails, the wizard has a good chance to win. If the BM has anything under 3 attacks per second, he will probably lose and wouldn't be able to kill the wizard.
A big difference would also be full buffed vs self buffs. Self buffs BM would have huge advantage, and with full buffs wizard would be able to compete.
In terms of how well I fare against them, no one in spectral is a real good fist BM. So I can say none of them are an actual threat or hurt me unless there's multiple people hitting me. I haven't really gone up against any of the well geared fist BMs which are mostly in allied guilds.0 -
Haiz - Lost City wrote: »If the BM has occult ice and it works, they will win. If occult ice fails, the wizard has a good chance to win. If the BM has anything under 3 attacks per second, he will probably lose and wouldn't be able to kill the wizard.
A big difference would also be full buffed vs self buffs. Self buffs BM would have huge advantage, and with full buffs wizard would be able to compete.
In terms of how well I fare against them, no one in spectral is a real good fist BM. So I can say none of them are an actual threat or hurt me unless there's multiple people hitting me. I haven't really gone up against any of the well geared fist BMs which are mostly in allied guilds.
if occlut ice works, expel him and u wont have a problem living tru a occlit ice. or hecks even domain.
now. it all depend on both of the players. how well they play and gear wise. if its some 5 hit a sec bm with +10 fist vs noob wiz . bm win, if its +10 bm with 5 hit a sec vs +10 wiz with +7/8 refines its a fair fight and the wiz got pretty good chance's to win.
im a +11 soon to be 12 wiz, and i dont belive any other wiz hit more then me in my server and i have very easy time with bms. i find them and barbs the most easy class to beat.0 -
To be honest I don't tend to struggle too much with fist BM's unless my genie is drained and my pots are on cooldown, in which case it becomes a much harder fight. If I have a pot or genie charged then they aren't really an issue0
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after seal most of bm falling down in my server XD
if i dont have good refined weapon then i got low chance against them (but not sure they can catch allways).
i dont have domain and expel atm, i made 20+ lv80 genie (and few 90+) and all failed with lower than 61 point XD so i invest every in game gold atm for weapon.
but even if i use a seal on a good bm he fall down and if this was expel then its big sucks (most of pk is in air), if i cant use protection cause genie in cooldown and i got occult ice and they hit me then most of tiem i kiss the floor XD
without enough dmg my only chance if somebody can keep them in distance and i can fir out my spells and if crit then i could win.
sadly in my server i know only 1 ppl who use tt99 pdef neck and belt, all other use mdef neck belt and lv11 sutra what is reduce my dmg sometimes more than on robe user class without mdef buff.0 -
What about a fist BM +10 with nirvana pants?0
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Haiz - Lost City wrote: »If the BM has occult ice and it works, they will win. If occult ice fails, the wizard has a good chance to win. If the BM has anything under 3 attacks per second, he will probably lose and wouldn't be able to kill the wizard.
A big difference would also be full buffed vs self buffs. Self buffs BM would have huge advantage, and with full buffs wizard would be able to compete.
In terms of how well I fare against them, no one in spectral is a real good fist BM. So I can say none of them are an actual threat or hurt me unless there's multiple people hitting me. I haven't really gone up against any of the well geared fist BMs which are mostly in allied guilds.
TiTeo ***** me with +0 fists.
If a bm is half competent they'll **** any wizardMy fetus will destroy you.
(</3) My heart is shattered. I will share the pain.0 -
It depends on too many factors to say one class beats another.. I can generally kite them so that they rarely hit me (except occult), and if I can bypass their charm without a crit they are usually done. I'd say I do pretty well for the most part, but fighting someone like NyKage/Zerhee etc is just a matter of time until they catch me for more than 2 seconds.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
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may the best credit card win b:bye
i cant bypass charms (w/o crits) with my current gear when magic marrow (Arcane Armor Mdef...) and high hp come along - but i guess i need more training,
trying to survive consumes most of my time and chi ^^
OP trying to figure out anti-wizard strategies :O?i like potato0 -
As a wizard, I use sleep and then gush them to see how much damage they take. If it looks like they have marrow on, I seal them, cast undine, wellspring (to get the -20% channeling), and then hit them with a sparked BIDS or demon-sparked SandStorm. A quick gush/pyro will finish them off if they survive the first attack (their charm will definitely be recharging after the initial attack).
End-game demon wizards with stone barrier up and channel reduction gear are crazy. With the wellspring bonus, it's easy to get ~60% channel reduction.
But, as other posters have said, it's also dependent on the skill of the players. In my opinion, a good BM will own any wizard if they can manage to stun.0 -
Valrain - Archosaur wrote: »As a wizard, I use sleep and then gush them to see how much damage they take. If it looks like they have marrow on, I seal them, cast undine, wellspring (to get the -20% channeling), and then hit them with a sparked BIDS or demon-sparked SandStorm. A quick gush/pyro will finish them off if they survive the first attack (their charm will definitely be recharging after the initial attack).
End-game demon wizards with stone barrier up and channel reduction gear are crazy. With the wellspring bonus, it's easy to get ~60% channel reduction.
But, as other posters have said, it's also dependent on the skill of the players. In my opinion, a good BM will own any wizard if they can manage to stun.
are you implying that demon > sage? Doesn't really matter, because anyone that checks if a BM has marrow on by using sleep-> gush is a moron anyway.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
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Adroit - Lost City wrote: »are you implying that demon > sage? Doesn't really matter, because anyone that checks if a BM has marrow on by using sleep-> gush is a moron anyway.
God I laughed so hard at this.
Why not just look at the icons?0 -
Valrain - Archosaur wrote: »As a wizard, I use sleep and then gush them to see how much damage they take. If it looks like they have marrow on, I seal them, cast undine, wellspring (to get the -20% channeling), and then hit them with a sparked BIDS or demon-sparked SandStorm. A quick gush/pyro will finish them off if they survive the first attack (their charm will definitely be recharging after the initial attack).
End-game demon wizards with stone barrier up and channel reduction gear are crazy. With the wellspring bonus, it's easy to get ~60% channel reduction.
But, as other posters have said, it's also dependent on the skill of the players. In my opinion, a good BM will own any wizard if they can manage to stun.
thats a very very VERY bad idea.. for once u got 2 min cd on sleep. why waste it on such meaningless thing, cant u just DS away gush to chack dmg?
and once u do find out u seal them undine. sparks? thats the whole seal duration and ur left there with spark on u without any sleep or seal he can just stun and fist u to death.0 -
SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »thats a very very VERY bad idea.. for once u got 2 min cd on sleep. why waste it on such meaningless thing, cant u just DS away gush to chack dmg?
and once u do find out u seal them undine. sparks? thats the whole seal duration and ur left there with spark on u without any sleep or seal he can just stun and fist u to death.
if i seal then he come closer, survive easily few hit, occult ice and got +2-3sec (he able use skill faster than me cause he used occult ice later than me the seal) - stun and u dead (exclude if u use domain or expel what ko ur genie, in this case need a good weapon)0 -
Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »if i seal then he come closer, survive easily few hit, occult ice and got +2-3sec (he able use skill faster than me cause he used occult ice later than me the seal) - stun and u dead (exclude if u use domain or expel what ko ur genie, in this case need a good weapon)
i have no idea how what u said has anything to do with what i said. i just said that guy tactic is bad.0 -
SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »i have no idea how what u said has anything to do with what i said. i just said that guy tactic is bad.
i just noticed a another option.
situation all pvp theory in forum is fail..... why? cant teach nobody how can do a pro pk because every(or most) case is different, even is same oponent, if he not nub then he can change startegy easily and have too many factor so we can answer maybe only to poll cause the wrote theory in real pk often could fail, and few fail tactic can be success if oponent dumb XD0 -
i would like to see surfer girl fight against ajay and tell me u find fist bm easy to kill
last time i checked he 1 shot u b:chuckle0 -
Seal isn't to get a free hit, and using seal then sparking is completely pointless because you are immune during spark. If you fighting someone 1v1, then your main purpose of seal should to be let your charm tick. Most classes have a barrier type skill or a heal skill, and its stupid and pointless to use it at the very beginning unless its a duel. Archers are a great example of barriers and how they always use it once their charm is ticked and they are low on HP. Seal works the same way, it buys time to let the cool down end.
You can teach people PK as well. There are skills to use at certain times. You can't teach how to kill a person in PK because that does change, especially with what weapon they have and refines. What never changes are the skills they use on you. Teaching people PK is how to survive, and killing is dependent on their experience.0 -
Haiz - Lost City wrote: »Seal isn't to get a free hit, and using seal then sparking is completely pointless because you are immune during spark. If you fighting someone 1v1, then your main purpose of seal should to be let your charm tick. Most classes have a barrier type skill or a heal skill, and its stupid and pointless to use it at the very beginning unless its a duel. Archers are a great example of barriers and how they always use it once their charm is ticked and they are low on HP. Seal works the same way, it buys time to let the cool down end.
You can teach people PK as well. There are skills to use at certain times. You can't teach how to kill a person in PK because that does change, especially with what weapon they have and refines. What never changes are the skills they use on you. Teaching people PK is how to survive, and killing is dependent on their experience.
i heard you quit
Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
i would like to see surfer girl fight against ajay and tell me u find fist bm easy to kill
last time i checked he 1 shot u b:chuckle
when ajay 1 shot me he demon spark in the air. drop down on me with frenzy and amp on and use 2 spark fist skill that does nice dmg. just as easly i can 1 shot him.
on a real fight ajay wont and never did 1 shot me.
so get ur head out of ur ****0 -
SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »when ajay 1 shot me he demon spark in the air. drop down on me with frenzy and amp on and use 2 spark fist skill that does nice dmg. just as easly i can 1 shot him.
on a real fight ajay wont and never did 1 shot me.
so get ur head out of ur ****
no BM whatever wep refine can one shot a wiz without amps anyway
My faction leader with +11 TT100 fists does like 3K crits on me with demon spark. And thats with around 8K pdef self buffed.
Only time i one shotted a higher level player on my BM was in the air, the well known Heaven's flame -> true emptiness combo, and still i needed a crit to kill said person0 -
Pure_Black - Harshlands wrote: »no BM whatever wep refine can one shot a wiz without amps anyway
My faction leader with +11 TT100 fists does like 3K crits on me with demon spark. And thats with around 8K pdef self buffed.
Only time i one shotted a higher level player on my BM was in the air, the well known Heaven's flame -> true emptiness combo, and still i needed a crit to kill said person
i was unbuffed he demon spark amp frenzied crited on me. that thing can 1 shot a wizard0 -
no BM whatever wep refine can one shot a wiz without amps anyway
My faction leader with +11 TT100 fists does like 3K crits on me with demon spark. And thats with around 8K pdef self buffed.
Only time i one shotted a higher level player on my BM was in the air, the well known Heaven's flame -> true emptiness combo, and still i needed a crit to kill said person
06-08-2010 11:48 AM
oh, I'm pretty sure a demon sparked Drake's Breath Bash with frenzy and poison if it crits can easily 1 shot a wizard. I actually have no doubt about that , lol.____________
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I re-rolled as a Wizzy on Harshlands for a reason.
Among other factors , range is a big advantage in PVP.Inactive on HT
Rerolled on HL0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »are you implying that demon > sage? Doesn't really matter, because anyone that checks if a BM has marrow on by using sleep-> gush is a moron anyway.
I know it's a bit late, but lol anyway.The doctor will see you now.0 -
Low hp = win0
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I've been fighting a few fist bms recently. Honestly, theres no way they can kill me in a single Roar of the Pride, swishy fist attack and then just hittng me. Best they do is tick my charm, once thats done I can slip away. Vacs are your friend. Expelling said bm is your friend. Kitting is a pain in the ****, but it keeps you alive.
As it is, my magic attack is too low to kill many 95+ bms easy, but if I can survive, all I need is more attack.
One bm gave up on fisting me, and started hacking away with his GX. He killed me.
Verdict on Fists? Works with ridiculous refines and 5aps. Most BMs on Sanct? Not 5aps.Koiz - omfg my life is now complete
Shevanel - haha oh?
~~~
Koiz - i took this massive dump
Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
Shevanel - hahahahaha
Shevanel - haha
Shevanel - Oh wow
Certain levels of Boredom..
ThaMessiah: I'd rather endlessly wack it till I shot a load that hits my ceiling than do a 3-20 -
I agree that fist BMs without a lot of -interval kinda suck... but man, when they DO get that -interval, the boost in damage is like several times over. b:shockedb:surrender0
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