Sage or Demon

dewiastuti77
dewiastuti77 Posts: 3 Arc User
edited June 2010 in Cleric
hi guys,

soon, its time for me to choose Demon or Sage. But untill now im still confuse what to choose. Any one know what is the benefit to be Sage and Demon. And also the weakness. So i can choose carefully.

Thanks.
Post edited by dewiastuti77 on
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Comments

  • threepointone
    threepointone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Search function.
  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i think sage / demon question was beaten to death here many times before b:surrender

    there is no wrong choice, cleric is a very balanced class, what you chose is based on your playstyle and personal preference.
    basically i can recommend two ways of choosing path - best used together
    1) go to ecatomb and look up sage and demon bonuses (please note that lvl 11 skill is stronger than lvl 10 anyway, and its only _bonus_ that changes, i met many ppl who missed that)
    2) get to know sages and demons and see how they play - either observe them in game (you can learn more that way but sometimes its hard to find good players who do have skills you want to see in action), or search this forum (more people post here, but its second hand experience)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nrgy - Dreamweaver
    Nrgy - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Sage for PvE
    Demon for PvP

    both cultivations are good, but this is pretty much it.
    img532.imageshack.us/img532/3159/alotofworkfornothing.jpg ... Persistence is futile.
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I want to ask something about ecatomb. On skill > database > PWI
    It just me or when you check sage / demon spark description for cleric it show that the sage give 25% damage reduction and the demon giving 25% attack speed lol.
    Even the same happen on sage / demon spark description for wizard.
    Guess it's a typo ? b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I want to ask something about ecatomb. On skill > database > PWI
    It just me or when you check sage / demon spark description for cleric it show that the sage give 25% damage reduction and the demon giving 25% attack speed lol.
    Even the same happen on sage / demon spark description for wizard.
    Guess it's a typo ? b:surrender

    i cant check numbers without logging in, but sparks are same regardless of class
    sage spark gives reduction in damage taken, and 'heals' 20% mp
    demon spark increases your attack speed / channeling and heals 20% hp
    so effect described is ok imo.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i cant check numbers without logging in, but sparks are same regardless of class
    sage spark gives reduction in damage taken, and 'heals' 20% mp
    demon spark increases your attack speed / channeling and heals 20% hp
    so effect described is ok imo.

    Ohh .. what description mean by attack speed is channeling speed ? b:surrender
    Ecatomb should change that description for arcane class.
    Because of that i am drolling to make 5aspd cleric. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Nrgy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sage for PvE
    Demon for PvP

    both cultivations are good, but this is pretty much it.

    Roughly and simplistically speaking...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ohh .. what description mean by attack speed is channeling speed ? b:surrender
    Ecatomb should change that description for arcane class.
    Because of that i am drolling to make 5aspd cleric. lol

    It's channeling. And we don't get a physical attack bonus either. XD
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Nrgy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sage for PvE
    Sage for PvP

    Only sage cultivation is good, but this is pretty much it.

    Fixed.
    /10 char
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Nrgy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sage for PvE
    Demon for PvP

    both cultivations are good, but this is pretty much it.
    Fixed.
    /10 char
    Undo.
    /10char
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ok let's put it that way.
    Go sage.
    /endthread
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    /Openthread
    I say demon, keep it going ;o
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Lol you are funny guy.
    Or not.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    this is wat happen when I'm bored ._.a
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Oh.
    Sorry sir. Let's get you not bored. What culti are you going for?
    I say sage because (pvp wise)
    support cleric > metal mage
    stronger heal
    vanguard spirit+magic shell=good for baby sitting casters
    faster wellspring and purify
    better seals
    chi needed to triple spark to actually kill someone, say thx to wield thunder (but remember support cleric > metal mage)
    thats it.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Demon ofc, and good for both pvp and pve too

    How is it that purify w/o needing chi any worse than faster casting it?

    Great Cyclone (89)
    Sage version reduces enemy's speed by 45% and increases effect duration by 1 second.
    Demon version does an extra 600 damage.

    Wield Thunder (99)
    Sage version has a 50% chance to gain additional 30 Chi on a successful hit.
    Demon version reduces enemy's Metal resistance by 30% for 10 seconds.

    -Triple spark is great for pve, pvp wise- situational. Too long, too flashy, too easy to spot => instant stun lock/ sleep / seal. Not to mention, Demon triple spark > Sage triple spark and Cloud Eruption is a skill that every cleric have on genie.

    Chromatic Healing Beam (92)
    Sage version extends area of effect by 5 meters.
    Demon version recovers an extra 600 HP.

    Spirit's Gift (92)
    Sage version adds 900 MP over 15 seconds.
    Demon version grants an additional 150% to magic attack for the first 10 seconds.
    (it increase your magic attack regardless of your target)

    Revive (89)
    Sage version extends range to 40 meters.
    Demon version cuts channeling time in half.

    Silent Seal (92)
    Sage version extends freeze effect by 2 seconds.
    Demon version does not reduce your attack damage.

    Chromatic Seal (99)
    Sage version extends the sleep duration by 4 seconds.
    Demon version causes no reduction to speed.

    -Now tell me about the better seals, if you effectively kite your opponent and deal full damage, how is it worse?

    Stream of Rejuvenation (99)
    Sage version gains 30% extra Chi with each cast.
    Demon version temporarily grants the target an additional 100% bonus to equipment's physical defense.

    Enlighten me
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Sage purify is better because sage will always have more chi, always., even if you use purify very often. And the faster purify, the better, to puri the debuffs your poor squadmates got to save them.

    Great cyclone : non factor, 600 dmg is non factor after pvp reduction, especially if you consider sage mastery.

    Wield thunder : demon's version is good, but again, support cleric > metal mage. sage's version is good too, the chi it gives is awesome.

    Triple spark : again support cleric > metal mage. Cloud eruption is affinity consuming, and remember sages can have it too, so again sages will always have more chi, always. And 1vs1 wise, you WILL use triple spark after you sleep the guy. So more chi = more triple spark, sleeps, plume shell.
    Demon spark is better for mages i agree, because they have a lot of long channeling skills they can chain. Buf for clerics? what are you gonna do? cyclone, wield thunder, cyclone? the channling on this is less important compared to wizards, so you can't say demon spark is better for clerics.
    And remember boy, sage clerics get -20% chan, for free :D

    Chroma : non factor in pvp

    Buffs : I prefer to give my mages +100% phys def and -20%chan instead of buffing my mag attack, which i compensate anyway with my better IH.

    Revive and stream : non factor in pvp

    I meant the debuffs for the seals. Sage's last longer, but yeah, sleep and freeze are better for demons, you got that.
  • Azazel - Dreamweaver
    Azazel - Dreamweaver Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Sage purify is better because sage will always have more chi, always., even if you use purify very often. And the faster purify, the better, to puri the debuffs your poor squadmates got to save them.
    It's not like it's unlimit, you regen as fast but use just as fast.
    Great cyclone : non factor, 600 dmg is non factor after pvp reduction, especially if you consider sage mastery.
    Better than none, and with 2% extra crit from demon mastery
    support cleric > metal mage.
    So liek, wat with all the **** about support cleric and metal mage? afaik this is call Cleric. Why Demon cleric mean you are metal mage? Demon support skills is just as good.
    Chroma : non factor in pvp
    Revive and stream : non factor in pvp
    This is for support and prove my point. Rolling demon =/= Metal Mage.
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Support cleric and metal mages are playstyles. You don't have the time to effectively kill the guys and save and support your teammates at the same time. The fact is you don't have reasons to go demon.
    Sages have a free -20%chan and that's priceless, its an unique skill in all of pwi. Revive and streams aren't used in pvp.
    Sages have better heal. Why would you go demon seriously? if you wanted to debuff with wield thunder, reroll mage and use undine, you got better debuffing.
  • Inias - Heavens Tear
    Inias - Heavens Tear Posts: 440 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    imo

    if u wanna be a healing cleric and heal heal and heal some more go sage also sage is better for keeping sparks up also sage keeps yr **** alive longer and ok ... sage might be a better class if u wanna kill arcane's
    while demon is better for killing LA or HA

    if u wanna be a cleric and heal here and there and heal pretty good (thinking bout stream) but you also want to kick some @ss i'd go demon
    thanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I like how Azazel only listed a select few skills.


    PS --> I am Sage and <3 it b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i cant check numbers without logging in, but sparks are same regardless of class
    sage spark gives reduction in damage taken, and 'heals' 20% mp
    demon spark increases your attack speed / channeling and heals 20% hp
    so effect described is ok imo.

    quick question....I was under impression that both demon and sage spark give you 20% MP. not that sage gives mp and demon gives hp. Is that a typo there or correct. Just want to verify cuz that is an influencer for me since it will be a while before i could get lvl 11 skills anyway. (ecatomb says mp on both but i know thats not bulletproof.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i love how biased are posts whenever there is demon/sage debate

    how azazel forgot to mention bout sage buffs, and Myriad dont remember that demon gift is great support skill too since it affect all heals (yea, all stonger heals > sage IH)

    and wtf stream is not factor in pvp (especially demon one) i haz no idea. someone explain


    anyway, to live up this necro bit more, imo:


    seals sage = demon, pretty much since you waste a bit of extra sage time bonus to purify urself

    demon < sage purify, but gotta mention that sage will drain up chi rly rly fast when u spam it.

    demon vs sage buffs - tough one

    ih demon < sage

    ws demon < sage, since it s faster for whole 0.3s lol

    stream demon > sage

    chb demon =? sage

    mastery demon <? sage, depends on build, if you dont stack crits then sage will be better

    plume shot demon > sage, but same case like in ws.. rly not biggy

    cyclone, ehhh

    wield thunder demon > sage, debuff makes cyclone hit almost same strong like thunder

    razor demon > sage

    revive, ehh go figure

    plume shell demon < sage, tho when u use it often, chi is some factor too


    demon seems bit more offensive when u compare skills, but demon cler =/= metal mage lol

    oh and btw, cuz i see that sages brag about IH rly often:
    demon IH with spirit gift = sage IH (sage would heal just 200hp = ~4% more than me) tho i need to waste that 1.5s to buff somewhere between
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Demon gift, yeah but like you said IH still heals more than 1.5 sec for spirit + IH, so yes that is better, though i agree demon spirit gift is a good skill, especially for metal maging.

    Where the heck did I say that metal mage = demon cleric?? I said some clerics go demon and just use cyclone and wield thunder to pvp, and they never help and support their teammates. Some sage clerics are metal mage wannabe too, metal maging is bad compared to supporting and it isn't about culti choice at all.

    For stream, yeah i will explain : stream is highly situational. in pvp i don't have the time to use stream on 3 or 4 ppl at the same time while i'm busy kiting and surviving. Guess what one sage IH per ppl time to time is good enough to keep them alive a long time and still let me do other things like debuffing, kiting, or even metal maging.

    But yes ppl are biased, and yet there is no reason to go demon for the clerics.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »
    But yes ppl are biased, and yet there is no reason to go demon for the clerics.

    TBH, this really is the only version that has a HUGE amount of Demon Clerics.

    I am of the opinion that Clerics were meant to be Sage.

    Having said that, both in terms of skills and PvP can be extremely equal and many of the skills tend to balance themselves between the two culti's...that is IF you actually take the taime to look and compare them all together not as skill per skill.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    TBH, this really is the only version that has a HUGE amount of Demon Clerics.

    I am of the opinion that Clerics were meant to be Sage.

    Having said that, both in terms of skills and PvP can be extremely equal and many of the skills tend to balance themselves between the two culti's...that is IF you actually take the taime to look and compare them all together not as skill per skill.

    lolwut? you say that a huge amount of demon clerics say that sage is useless?

    Like I said, sage clerics have the unique and exclusive skill to give ppl -20% chan for 10 sec for no chi, + they can give easily +100%pdef. Giving my wizz perma -20% chan and 100%pdef, lol who is OP now?.

    And they heal more. What the heck do you want more?

    If you want your squad to win against the other, you will need to support. Period. If you want to boost your ego and go metal mage, then you are gimping your squad because mages and archers are infinitely better than cleric to kill ppl, it's a pure fact.

    Considered that sage is better for support, you should go sage if you want to optimize your chances at winning and do your job.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »
    lolwut? you say that a huge amount of demon clerics say that sage is useless?

    No I did not...reread....b:surrender

    I am Sage btw.....rofl...You did not read or you misquoted someone >_>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Err sorry, I knew you were sage you are pretty famous aren't you? ;D
    But sorry i couldn't understand well your sentence :
    "this really is the only version that has a HUGE amount of Demon Clerics."
    No offenses lol.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Err sorry, I knew you were sage you are pretty famous aren't you? ;D
    But sorry i couldn't understand well your sentence :
    "this really is the only version that has a HUGE amount of Demon Clerics."
    No offenses lol.

    No worries...I just meant other versions of PW :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »
    No worries...I just meant other versions of PW :)

    Ah yeah I got it you meant in other versions of PW all the clerics go sage, and in PWI many peeps go demon lolz. Well too bad for them b:chuckle

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