Sage or Demon

RedsRose - Lost City

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

Ah yeah I got it you meant in other versions of PW all the clerics go sage, and in PWI many peeps go demon lolz. Well too bad for them b:chuckle

I get **** from more then a few...

But I think people highly underestimate Sage Clerics. Demon clerics imo have one skill that I would love and that is Demon Spirit's Gift because of the attack, but that is quite easily made up for b:victory

*shrugs* It is all in how you want to play your game b:cute

Myriad_ - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I get **** from more then a few...

But I think people highly underestimate Sage Clerics. Demon clerics imo have one skill that I would love and that is Demon Spirit's Gift because of the attack, but that is quite easily made up for b:victory

*shrugs* It is all in how you want to play your game b:cute

"I get **** from more then a few..." Lolwut? can you translate plz b:surrender

Yeah demon spirit gift is lovely but its casted only on yourself, instead of sage buffs which go on the target.
And you're right, do what you want to do and what you like in that game.

But imo, sage is vastly superior for all the reasons i told.

RedsRose - Lost City

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

"I get **** from more then a few..." Lolwut? can you translate plz b:surrender

As to why go Sage.

People have questioned and "ewwwwww, your Sage" talked b:chuckle

Lost City is a Demon Cleric's mecca. b:surrender

TBH, the deciding factor in going Sage for me was TW Cata team and Sage IH. The one fantastic thing that came out of the packs was the ability to get all of these skills.

Myriad_ - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Lost City is a Demon Cleric's mecca. b:surrender

TBH, the deciding factor in going Sage for me was TW Cata team and Sage IH. The one fantastic thing that came out of the packs was the ability to get all of these skills.

b:surrender
Bring back the sage power to LC, Rose. b:chuckle

RedsRose - Lost City

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

b:surrender
Bring back the sage power to LC, Rose. b:chuckle

b:mischievous Working on it. b:cute

Myriad_ - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

b:mischievous Working on it. b:cute

What is the plan? b:pleased
I am thinking of leveling my wiz to go pk in duo with a friend who is sage, and making a video to show to the world how it powns ;D

RedsRose - Lost City

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

What is the plan? b:pleased
I am thinking of leveling my wiz to go pk in duo with a friend who is sage, and making a video to show to the world how it powns ;D

*shrugs*

LOL...no idea, I just know I being Sage b:cute

Myriad_ - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

*shrugs*

LOL...no idea, I just know I being Sage b:cute

Everybody loves being Sage. It powns b:angry

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

sage clers are ewwww on LC?

lol


anyway,for me if comparing support it is all about 'sage buffs and IH' vs 'demon gift and stream'

i would love to have sage vanguard and magic shell.

sage ih - it would be nice to not think if im buffed with gift all the time for sure


but then, demon stream have same buff like sage vanguard, but since it takes 2x longer to cast it then it s not recomened to use it on wizzies
and about it usefulness overally -i dont even wanna go there- just wanna mention that it s fast spell actually since it takes just 1s or 1.5s more to cast compared to IH or WS.
enough said..

and demon gift..
it s not hard to keep urself buffed with it, it s just 1.5s and u dont heve to worry about targeting - and 'works' on all heals


btw it should be mentioned -to not mislead anyone- those buffs dont give 100 or 150% bonuses.


f.e gift makes my base mag attack 23% higher (from 9521-10738 to 11692-13186)
it dont even means 23% stronger heals since every spell has some base amount of HP which will always regen (1200 for IH for example).

in my case IH is stronger by 17% with gift, and that is far from +150% =P


sage vanguard changes my pdef resistance from 42% to 54% self buffed, and 50-59% with 10lvl bell buff (yea, pdef sucks like that :P).

if target have higher p.def stat then sage buff will increase even less. if fully buffed wizzy have 7018 pdef (64% resistance) then sage vanguard will change it to 8725 (69%).


so yeah, gift wont make me oneheal barbs with WS and vanguard wont make ur wizzes OP

differences arent big, enough biasing -.-'

Myriad_ - Lost City

Yeah enough biasing, but simply sage gives ppl pdef and channeling, demon gives only pdef, with a longer time casting spell. That's it.

You might think that difference between 64% and 69% is small, but it isn't, i don't want to go in the math details, but 5% difference doesn't mean you take 5% damage less, it means more (can someone do the maths lol plz?).
Every point of pdef is welcomed, at least until you get 11000 buffed. I don't know how good are your archers, but +10 CV bow or +12 rank8/nirvana surely hurt, and pown you if you have only 7k pdef.

But again, sage gives two things and demons only one, with a quite long time casting spell.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

quick question....I was under impression that both demon and sage spark give you 20% MP. not that sage gives mp and demon gives hp. Is that a typo there or correct. Just want to verify cuz that is an influencer for me since it will be a while before i could get lvl 11 skills anyway. (ecatomb says mp on both but i know thats not bulletproof.

id need some demon cleric to make sure, sorry... my hubby heals himself with spark, but that may be a class thing, not a demon thing

@ skill discussion
<-- sage, had a moment of doubt just before culti, but went with original choice and no regrets
there are 3 demon skills id want over sages:
demon spark - for channel (and its pretty b:cute)
demon res - channel again, especially on interrupt cast bast.ards, though i was happy for sage 40m range when we tried dipter...
wield thunder - for metal def decrease (i dont have sage ver anyway)
but even these three arent worth the skills i have sage ver
and chi skill wins all b:victory
(ok, i may pay more chi for some skills than a demon would, but i DO have that chi first)

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

lolwut? you say that a huge amount of demon clerics say that sage is useless?

Like I said, sage clerics have the unique and exclusive skill to give ppl -20% chan for 10 sec for no chi, + they can give easily +100%pdef. Giving my wizz perma -20% chan and 100%pdef, lol who is OP now?.

And they heal more. What the heck do you want more?

If you want your squad to win against the other, you will need to support. Period. If you want to boost your ego and go metal mage, then you are gimping your squad because mages and archers are infinitely better than cleric to kill ppl, it's a pure fact.

Considered that sage is better for support, you should go sage if you want to optimize your chances at winning and do your job.

no offense but this coming from a lvl 83 avatar? b:bye

and btw everyone keeps talking about how 85% damage absorption is >>>>>>>80% damage absorption
realise that at lvl 90+/100+, you'll most likely only have about 10k mana, 80% absorption means for every 10k damage that you take, 2 k goes to hp and 8k goes to mana. See my point here? Most 90+ clerics have good HP when they begin to refine their gears and having 4k+ hp is like a norm. But the thing is, you do not have enough mana to absorb that much damage even with lvl 10 plume shell. (Well, you can argue by saying event food for mana heals more than event food for hp and also the use of mp charm) But most of the time, that extra5% damage absorption does not really matter that much especially with sages having better heal to heal themselves with.

Sage purify can be said as >>>>> demon purify but i dont think sage plume shell deserves that.

Also, clerics can hold their own in pvp as well as archers and wizards.
However, I would say sage cleric would be better for support if you use your lvl 89+ cleric jsut like how you use him/her before lvl 89
PS Demon cleric can give other class mana, but sage cant. So we do support in other ways.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah enough biasing, but simply sage gives ppl pdef and channeling, demon gives only pdef, with a longer time casting spell. That's it.

You might think that difference between 64% and 69% is small, but it isn't, i don't want to go in the math details, but 5% difference doesn't mean you take 5% damage less, it means more (can someone do the maths lol plz?).
Every point of pdef is welcomed, at least until you get 11000 buffed. I don't know how good are your archers, but +10 CV bow or +12 rank8/nirvana surely hurt, and pown you if you have only 7k pdef.

But again, sage gives two things and demons only one, with a quite long time casting spell.

Go make a HA cleric then. 11k p def with arcane armor is either unachievable or you'll be probably sacrificing everything else for it. PLease don't come to a cleric's forum with a mentality of a wizard.

Myriad_ - Lost City

Read what i wrote. I didn't say that 11k pdef is easily achievable. I did say that every point of pdef including sage pdef is relevant and welcomed, until you get at least 11k pdef, in answer to the point that sage magic shell was useless because to get 8000 pdef instead of 7k was useless (paramedic's point of view). So basically I say that sage vanguard is good.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1637944c3b6138b7 look at the pdef with sage vanguard and demon stone barrier. Don't need to use HA.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Myriad_ - Lost City wrote: »

Read what i wrote. I didn't say that 11k pdef is easily achievable. I did say that every point of pdef including sage pdef is relevant and welcomed, until you get at least 11k pdef, in answer to the point that sage magic shell(vanguard spirit)correction was useless because to get 8000 pdef instead of 7k was useless (paramedic's point of view). So basically I say that sage vanguard is good.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1637944c3b6138b7 look at the pdef with sage vanguard and demon stone barrier. Don't need to use HA.

Are you saying that clerics can get demon stone barrier and have a pet sage cleric buffing them with sage vanguard spirit all the time? On paper it is very good, A++++++, but in reality, you can't even have bm's buff most of the time. Think again and plan for the worse possible situation and not just for the best.

Oh and btw, if we are in a squad with a barb, who would ever cast that buff on you, even in tw? And also, who goes demon on wizards nowadays? And how rare is the demon stone barrier?

Did i mention dropping the wizards's metality before commenting? Your comments have shown that you are not ready for this yet. Don't try to help others now, help yourself first, by perhaps hitting lvl 89 with your wizard and finding demon stone barrier. roll a cleric to an acceptable level before you start trying to "help" others.

Myriad_ - Lost City

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Are you saying that clerics can get demon stone barrier and have a pet sage cleric buffing them with sage vanguard spirit all the time? On paper it is very good, A++++++, but in reality, you can't even have bm's buff most of the time. Think again and plan for the worse possible situation and not just for the best.

Oh and btw, if we are in a squad with a barb, who would ever cast that buff on you, even in tw? And also, who goes demon on wizards nowadays? And how rare is the demon stone barrier?

Did i mention dropping the wizards's metality before commenting? Your comments have shown that you are not ready for this yet. Don't try to help others now, help yourself first, by perhaps hitting lvl 89 with your wizard and finding demon stone barrier. roll a cleric to an acceptable level before you start trying to "help" others.

No I didn't say clerics could get stone barrier. lol. Stop putting words in my mouth. The point of supporting is to give people the buffs, not at yourself only. So giving pdef to the others is good.
Then sage vanguard spirit is a good skill, can you just understand that???

A lot of ppl goes demon, Elayne the leader of one of the top guilds is demon, Ehee, is demon, I can name you some more if you want, JennaToll, anon, lordmaikeru, lushness and a lot of unknown etc...
Demon Stone barrier can be found with tokens...
I have a high level cleric, sage ofc ijs...

So if you don't accept that sage cleric is the best to support, well nvm and be happy with demons. Just don't flame me. I'm only saying in this thread that sage cleric is good. b:bye

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

u get flames cuz u ask for it

lol it s annoying, and im not saying sage vanguard is bad- i know i would use it- but ur showing info in typical biased way.
like in pwcalc that boost from 10k p.def to 13k p.def (yay for big numbers?) totally forgeting that stacking any resistance in this game gives diminishing returns (+3k there dont means +30% more but +7%).


btw, we didnt talk about magic shell yet, which nobody know if it gives +20% channeling or multiply it by 0.2
and nobody will ever tell you reliable info cuz ppl love to bias themsleves and estaminate channel by laggy animation speed (vide: channel & cleric topic somewhere near, and some cler who claims that '9% channel gives slight difference.')


oh well, to not make you feel that it is anti-sage topic, i can tel u that demon gift sucks.
really, it sucks if you gonna heal just one target with IH only, simply because in time you cast it you could just 'almost' throw another IH (gift is bit faster).

Cookie_Doe - Heavens Tear

i keep imagining myself choosing demon b:shocked oh my gawdd -beats picture out of brain-