Barbarian Level 75? or Hercules Level 75?

ChocoMonster - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm at a crossroads here, I've been comparing a level 75 hercules (found here) with a level 75 Barbarian with normal equips (using this calculator) and to be honest, there isn't much of a difference between the two (besides the herc winning in accuracy and magic defense.)

So what would you choose? A barbarian? Or a herc? I'm more of a solo type, so a herc appeals to me more as I can heal it instantly rather than having to buy HP Guardian Charms.

(Edit: this is of course if you follow the 3 STR, 1 VIT, 1 DEX until level 62, then do 3 STR, 2 VIT after that.)

I also know that a hercules can't fly or swim, which is why I've been contemplating on pet tanks for those areas (at uber high levels, there's a certain fish that performs better than turtles. Foxwings are good in the air for more defense.)

You don't need HP charm for normal grinding and questing. Use skills to get 2 sparks and then use Sunder to regain your HP.

ChocoMonster - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have 4140 Source of forces already (as you can exchange 100 Feathers for 100 sources.) Which means I've spent 80 USD already to get half of what I need (abouts.)

The average amount of Real World Money is about 180 USD to get the needed source of forces.

Also, I'm pretty sure once you hatch the Herc it's bound, so no resell if you don't like it.b:surrender

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

We aren't talking about stats here.
You don't need a HP charm to grind. Mighty swing to start off and beastial onslaught and normal attack until might swing's off of cool-down. That normally gives me 2 sparks by the time my HP is at about 2/3. Then you can use sunder to replenish your HP and do it all over again. My first character was a 95 veno with nix and herc, I prefer my barb a lot more.

1. I wasn't replying to you
2. I never said anything about needing a charm to grind.

Please read more carefully next time b:surrender

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please quote carefully next time.

My mistake.
For some reason when I edit a post it adds quotes I've multi-selected earlier, but there wasn't a quote there the first time around.

Precisely what Solandri said.

Hercs are good, but at some point nothing will save you if there's crappy HP behind that wall of defense.

Might i add that hercs without a special skill called Blessing of the Pack don't even reach 5k HP by level 100. On the other hand, you have people that can solo (or tank in squad) bosses a herc can't with less than half the defense of herc simply by having way more HP.

Don't concern yourself with regular mobs too much. Double sparking and/or Sunder is basically all you need. If this doesn't work well for you just make level 60 apothecary HP regen powders. Those basically ensure you can grind however the hell you want (yes, you can even use Armageddon on mobs and not give a ****). Barbs killspeed might be a tiny bit questionable, but definitely not survival.

So here's the different points to take into consideration.

1) A barb is free to level to 75. You don't have to pay a dime, cent, quarter or anything to get it to that level.

The Herc is $200

+1 to the barb

2) Barbs have far more HP than Hercs do, have double spark/Sunder and a variety of self healing skills in the form of genies. There are also HP charms you can buy. This gives them incredibly solo ability in and of themselves and makes them better tankers than Hercs.

The Herc will never be able to tank certain bosses no matter how hard a veno or two tries. It cannot be purfied, it cannot be given extra buff beyond the ones it already knows, it can't spam aggro attacks.

+1 to the barb

3) If you really want to play on your own, a barb is going to end up needing to squad more than the Herc veno. Barbs also rely on other players to do their part, be it DD or heal them, and this limits what they can solo in terms of bosses - especially at levels 1 -75.

Herc venos are DD, tank and healer. You call all the shots. You pull as and when you want, you are in control. If it goes wrong, you have nobody to blame but yourself, but there's no pressure to appease a squad or run an instance at the pace they want. You're also free to truly solo bosses that a barb of the same level would have to squad for. (BH59 for instance, is solo-able for a veno the instant she turns 70 with her Herc and gets her BH59 bosses.)

+1 to the Herc

So, really, it's 2 for the barb and 1 for the Herc. But if you want to just play this game on your own and not squad, and are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars to do so, I'd say go for the Herc. You are still going to have to squad for certain bosses, but the necessity to squad will be far less as a Herc veno than it will be for a barb.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, really, it's 2 for the barb and 1 for the Herc. But if you want to just play this game on your own and not squad, and are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars to do so, I'd say go for the Herc. You are still going to have to squad for certain bosses, but the necessity to squad will be far less as a Herc veno than it will be for a barb.

Hercs don't need charms, +1 to the herc
Hercs don't need armour/mats or pots, +1 to the herc
Hercs don't need to repair, +1 to the herc
Hercs don't suffer damage reduction on HH bosses. +over 9000 to the herc
et al

I herc has a lot of advantages over a barb, where a barb can have advantages over a herc. It's really rather subjective.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's not being subjective more than it is being picky.

Because all of that was covered in the idea that a Herc, for solo play, is better than a barb. You just decided to picky and start stating all of that separately, which was your own choice.

The fact of the matter doesn't change:

A barbarian is a better tank

A Herc is better for solo play levels 1 - 75 for sure.

Being subjective isn't going to change that, because no matter how subjective, or picky, you want to be, a barb is never going to be able to solo his BH59s on his own the instant he hits 70, where a Herc veno can with ease.

I'm not being picky, these are all important parts of being a tank.

Personally, I think a herc is a much better tank 99% of the time (at least in HH) for the reasons I listed.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I would disagree because if you're in a squad, people are more liable to steal from a Herc than from a barb.

The reasons you listed only make Hercs more useful for the veno. Not for the rest of the squad if you're talking about squad TT, or squad anything for that matter. So the point of this still doesn't change.

Hercs don't need charms, +1 to the herc
Hercs don't need armour/mats or pots, +1 to the herc
Hercs don't need to repair, +1 to the herc

All better for the veno.

Not better for anybody else you happen to be in a squad with if you're talking about squad play. So the point still stands.

For solo play the Herc is better.

For squad play the barb is better than Herc in 98% of situations.

Again, all very subjective.
It depends on the players and squad you've brought along.
For example, you can bring one veno and five DPS (as long as you don't have to heal through aoe) and that benefits everyone.
The players don't have to worry about "omg i tank and break gear u pay"
The herc does more damage (at least on HH bosses) which benefits the players.

There's no clear-cut "better" option. It all depends on the situation.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

A barb can actually think for itself. If you fail to provide a herc with heals then it's just SOL. A barb (provided he's not an idiot) can stay alive without being healed for quite some time.

And venos can think for themselves. If they're not providing heals for the herc that is basically the equivalent of the barb sitting there watching himself die.