Point of Barbarians?

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  • Jiblet - Sanctuary
    Jiblet - Sanctuary Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Yarly - Harshlands wrote: »
    Frostcovered, FB/BH69, Nirvana, GV, TW
    any others?

    Those are for you barbs


    I am the Wizbarian...fear meb:laugh b:laugh b:laugh

    Seriously tho, try doing delta or TW without barbs...should be fun to see.

    FCC, FB/BH69, Nirvana don't need a barb if you have a decent squad tbh.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am the Wizbarian...fear meb:laugh b:laugh b:laugh

    Seriously tho, try doing delta or TW without barbs...should be fun to see.

    FCC, FB/BH69, Nirvana don't need a barb if you have a decent squad tbh.

    Done Delta without a barb a number of times. I hate when I can lure better than a barb... we just tell them to human form and DD. lol
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    early and midgame tank of pwi (still great at endgame if you cant find a fist bm with highish hp)

    exelent buffs and debuffs

    great in PK and TW

    you get fur that all the human women want to snuggle into for the warmness when grinding avalance ridge

    you are your own mount

    did i mention how hawt the fur is b:dirty
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • soapbox
    soapbox Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Okay here is the deal, if it is a Magical monster of course a higher level Robe class will tank it. It will make it easier and with you in Stand up as a Barb it will help add more DPS in the party. Also Barbs are essential for the Barb buffs, they are really good to have around. When you get further into end game you will find yourself tanking a lot more, especially in the 90s. Every class except a Cleric will go through a period of levels where they are rendered useless, absolutely useless. For example Wizards suck horribly until 90+. I dread bringing them along for anything because they are constantly dying so I feel like I am dragging them along. Venomancers become pretty useless for help in end game, even with a Herc, in comparison to a Barb. So there are always ups and downs to all classes. Just be patient as a Barb.. you have to be, you'll see stupid Clerics who don't know how to heal, stupid DDs who don't know how to manage aggro (Dam those Psychics). Anyways that is my two cents.

    _Mango
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    soapbox wrote: »
    Venomancers become pretty useless for help in end game, even with a Herc, in comparison to a Barb.

    In 3-3 or Nirvana, I'd rather have a veno for amp (when applicable) and purge.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Bebisito - Dreamweaver
    Bebisito - Dreamweaver Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Sometimes I think people think too much. I play as a barb because it's fun to me.
  • Glowfish - Lost City
    Glowfish - Lost City Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    soapbox wrote: »
    stupid DDs who don't know how to manage aggro (Dam those Psychics)

    FWIW I see a lot more sins and archers not knowing how to manage aggro than psys b:kiss
  • Born_Free - Harshlands
    Born_Free - Harshlands Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    soapbox wrote: »
    stupid DDs who don't know how to manage aggro (Dam those Psychics).

    Would you like me to beat in your face? :D Some of us CAN manage aggro.



    Look, I've done my fair share of TT's and a few Nirvanas without barbs.
    They're usually hell.

    Lemme tell you, I don't care if your BM or Sin has this fantastic amount of HP and ****. Barbs are made for tanking bosses. If they can't tank a boss, and hold aggro, that just means they can't play their class, or they've been building wrong.

    If it was a choice between a Barb and a BM....I'm picking the damned Barb. In my experience, any BM or Sin who says they can tank....usually can't, and I'm playing cleric because they're so freaking hard to squad in Harshlands, and my heals have huge cooldowns, and even bigger MP costs.
    And so who gets blamed when the BM/Sin who really CAN'T tank dies? Me, of course, because I'm the backup cleric.

    But you can easily have a party of TWO 5x's (a Barb and a psychic, a barb and a Wizard, a barb and a cleric) and do a BH 39 without a single casualty. (Mind you we had to take a lot of HP/MP breaks, but that's beside the point.)

    So honestly? The Untamed have the hands down in Tanking.
  • GoldTiger - Dreamweaver
    GoldTiger - Dreamweaver Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Barb:
    HI Psy Def
    HI amount of Hp
    Ream, keep boss on you
    Devour Increase your Treath level
    Beast K. INsipration. Great buff
    Titan Buff More dmg
    Barb are Tank class, Bm is fake tank,

    Comapare lv 70 barb vs lv 70 BM on boss

    Barb:
    More HP
    Def,
    Better Aggro

    BM
    More dmg
    Fake tank (easy to steal aggro) can happend wipe out of squad
    Stuners
    great DD class

    that is my thinking
    PWI
    DW - Server
    GoldTiger - LV 100
    Faction: ReMiX
  • Esnemyl - Dreamweaver
    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,079 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    in personal opinion, any class can tank if they do it correcly
    end of my debate :p
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]<3 by Silvy
    Reborn ditzy archer with a serious oreo addiction =3

    '...cuz my IQ is just above what is required to function as a human' - tsumaru2
  • Quinnie - Heavens Tear
    Quinnie - Heavens Tear Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    with some decent gears and knowledge of how to play a barb is a very good tank but also a lethal opponent. i had no probs during my barbs 60's to hold aggro in bh51 vs my DDing wife (101 veno). in normal form i can still hold/take aggro with DD from other DD classes. and thats with almost fully easy to get gears that are +3/+4 refined. (demon barb ftw)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dess - Heavens Tear
    Dess - Heavens Tear Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    During FB/BH 59, yah a barb is probably gonna take a back seat to Arcane users as the primary tank in a squad. But when it comes to anything else, ill take a barb as a tank over pretty much anyone else (even a "uber" bm or a herc'd veno).They have the skills, hp, and defense to keep the boss focused on them. On my archer, i pretty much have stopped using the cave blessing and my atk buff during FBs/BHs so i can use my skills, and NOT take aggro from the barb. But even with those measures, i still regularly steal aggro from bms and herc'd venos, even when theyre 10 lvls or more above me. Hell, on my archer, i ended up the tank during one of my recent BH59 runs, and held aggro from 3 seperate bms, ALL of whom had Calamities equiped, and were all at least 5 lvls above me.

    As for psys stealing aggro nonstop, theres an easy fix: have em drop their atk buff, and use their def buff. They'll still do reasonable dmg and wont aggro steal near as bad. As for Sins, theres really not much they can do to NOT take aggro, outside of keeping that skill of theirs which kills their atk rate turned on.

    But in short, for mag atk bosses, Arcane users are simply better tanks. For anything else, ill go with the Barb, everytime. Unless hes a fail barb. If the barb is fail, im runnin, reguardless of my class.
  • Ryxx - Heavens Tear
    Ryxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Future cata puller will be Heavy cashooper Psy with 99 def level D:

    purge ftl.

    bye bye squishy psy b:chuckle
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    I love being a Barb. I can run fast inside instances, love our buffs, high HP, and look good.b:cool


    Personally, if someone wants to tank, go for it. I love to DD in human form anyways. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower

    -Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    I think some people overestimate their damage. Like their damage is so godly while us poor barbs can do nothing but try to spam our flesh ream and hold it from their almighty damage.

    I held aggro earlier today on a TT boss (wurlord) against a level 92 archer with +3 blinding radiance, and a mage with +4 TT90 glaive by using nothing but normal attacks + veno bramble. I just stood there and autoattacked the boss and never lost aggro (although to be fair I have demon true form so my attacks were doing full damage) Both of which prior to starting the instance were like "make sure you hold aggro" "I do really high damage so try not to lose aggro"


    Even archers with +10 lunar bows have been able to take aggro from me, and I don't even have demon flesh ream yet.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Malilizi - Harshlands
    Malilizi - Harshlands Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    At full end game here's how it works:

    Barb buffs, barb leaves, we all go on and enjoy the instance with an extra DD instead.

    Barbs are for buffs and cata pulling at end game. There's nothing a well geared fist BM can't tank and hold aggro on better than a barb can and I mean nothing. Full Warsongs, every world boss, Nirvana, 3-3, and I've even run FC with just a BM pulling.

    However barbs are still better for FC and GV than a BM but those two things aren't end game.

    The issue with barbs is that their aggro skills just aren't very good. So you either have to choose having a barb tank and everyone holding off on damage, making the instance take two times as long, or just going full out and being done with it sooner. I'd rather run quickly than spare a barbs feelings :P.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Ryxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    purge ftl.

    bye bye squishy psy b:chuckle
    Ever actually try it? FTL indeed. b:chuckle
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I think some people overestimate their damage. Like their damage is so godly while us poor barbs can do nothing but try to spam our flesh ream and hold it from their almighty damage.

    I held aggro earlier today on a TT boss (wurlord) against a level 92 archer with +3 blinding radiance, and a mage with +4 TT90 glaive by using nothing but normal attacks + veno bramble. I just stood there and autoattacked the boss and never lost aggro (although to be fair I have demon true form so my attacks were doing full damage)
    Then that archer was likely not much of a damage build. Sufficed to say, your aggro troubles are ahead young padawan. There's no overestimation at all. Your reams will soon do little at all against the insane damage builds which are pretty common. Most of the damage classes soon will be ripping aggro from you, but it's the interval BMs, sins, and archers, that you'll find yourself staring in the face of futility trying holding aggro from for more than a second or two. They simply do too much dmg that you cannot keep up with.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Then that archer was likely not much of a damage build. Sufficed to say, your aggro troubles are ahead young padawan. There's no overestimation at all. Your reams will soon do little at all against the insane damage builds which are pretty common. Most of the damage classes soon will be ripping aggro from you, but it's the interval BMs, sins, and archers, that you'll find yourself staring in the face of futility trying holding aggro from for more than a second or two. They simply do too much dmg that you cannot keep up with.

    Maybe on other servers, but on RT the average weapon refine for people level 90+ is +3. People with -int gear is still pretty rare.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    frosty0908 wrote: »
    I started playing here around two months ago now and when I started I loved my barbarian I was under the impression that our sole purpose was to tank bosses but now I am up to 62 I find that alot of 7x levels seem to insisit they tank bosses in instances. I am not a good damage dealer I may cause a nice amount of damage but compared to other classes I do not compete. I find it rather annoying when this happens as it is denying me of what I came here to do and that is to tank I do not enjoy the damage my barbarian deals out I do enjoy being hit sevrel times and not seing my health bar drop and the sattisification of knowing that I played a major role in the bosses death next to the cleric that would of been healing me.

    When I play with Veno's I keep in mind that one of there roles is to pull mobs and even though I have zeal I try not to use it as I like them to think they have a purpose in the instance rather than someone just trying to show off "HAHAH LOOK AT ME MA I CAN TANK THIS BOSS" ... Come on people let the classes do what they do best and let them do what there role is meant for I am not talkin about magical bosses here I understand why a more magical def class would be better of tanking them.

    Opinions please?

    Barbs really dont have many purposes left in this game:

    Buff HP
    Pull waves in GV/Frost
    1 shoot people with Armageddon in pvp
    Pull cata pult in TW


    I blame it all on devs. Not really much tanking is done by barbs in higher lvl instances. Its pretty much a pvp class now. People rather use a 5 aps BM to tank most higher lvl instances or even an 5 aps archer, barb just comes along to buff and maybe lure some mobs.

    In general in most instances, the bosses are so easy you dont need barb - so you pick someone that deals more dmg so runs goes faster.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Hmm... here's my view.

    - Any class is able to tank, with certain limitations.

    - Barbs were designed to tank, with no limitations.

    That's the only difference. Before packs and insane gear, archer and wizzies and every other class under the sun could tank too - but they had limitations keeping them from tanking certain bosses. Barbs, however, were the class designed to have very few - if any - limitations to tanking. Their massive HP pool made up for their lack of magic defence when it came to magic mobs, and phys bosses... well.

    However, with the introduction and subsequent flood of -interval gear, easy mega-high refines and +10 vit stones out the ****, the limitations on classes have been lessened if not removed entirely. Archers and BMs, in particular, have been noted as being amazing end-game tanks because of their amazing gear and stacked -interval. (Although the same stands true for barbs in such gear, as well.)

    With the packs and the gear they offer, nearly everything is tank-able to those willing to pay the money for it. This factor is further helped with genies - making self heals and faster chi gain easy if you're going to solo tank something.

    That's the end of the story.

    End-game barbs not decked out in competitive gear are great for buffs and cata-pulling.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • XylolyX - Heavens Tear
    XylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    The barb's job is to keep the squad alive, especially the squishies and the almighty cleric.

    If that means confronting the boss and getting beat about the head and shoulders...that's awesome. If it means DDing; even better. Whatever the case, if the primary tank loses aggro, we roar, alpha male, FR or do whatever it takes to grab aggro until the squad is whole again.

    That's what we do. HP buff, Strength buff, and cancel skill are all added bonuses which help out squad mates.

    But our main purpose is to get hit and keep getting hit, and keep getting hit. So that others can live to brag about their crits, about their demon sparks and about the squads they were in.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Lvl10XBarb
    Lvl10XArcher
    lvl10XAssassin
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    I guess I'll just repeat everyone else.

    Point of barb is default tank. Back up tank/DD (If not main tank)

    In squads I'm in if barb can tank and party can go all out they tank. If barb can't and someone else can tank and party can go all out they tank. If you have no cleric and someone can tank without one (ie. veno-herc) they tank. End of discussion for me.
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    frosty0908 wrote: »
    Hostile much?... People can't speak there minds ask questions learn about the current situation?.... Shhh mate grown folk speaking here troll else where.

    Then let me spell it out for you, Junior.

    There *is* no "current situation" for Barbs. There have been Hercs for over a year, and "I" am *still* in demand, every day.

    I've been in demand to tank almost every boss on this map since lvl 5x, and have no problem letting herc veno's tank the ones they can.

    Your inability to find anyone who wants you to tank their run is not a "who needs Barbs anymore" problem but a "who needs a fail Barb when we have *anything else*" problem.

    If the suicidal BM or the insane Sin wants to tank the boss, let 'em.

    When they die, you can take over and do your job.

    Unless you've spent the last 10 minutes QQing about being "left behind", and kicked from squad. <Citation above>

    RedMenace

    \Don't call me "mate", Chucklehead
    \\if you can't manage to do any damage when DD, you really *are* fail
    \\\link
    \\\\Got chunks of Kids like you in my droppings
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • frosty0908
    frosty0908 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Then let me spell it out for you, Junior.

    There *is* no "current situation" for Barbs. There have been Hercs for over a year, and "I" am *still* in demand, every day.

    I've been in demand to tank almost every boss on this map since lvl 5x, and have no problem letting herc veno's tank the ones they can.

    Your inability to find anyone who wants you to tank their run is not a "who needs Barbs anymore" problem but a "who needs a fail Barb when we have *anything else*" problem.

    If the suicidal BM or the insane Sin wants to tank the boss, let 'em.

    When they die, you can take over and do your job.

    Unless you've spent the last 10 minutes QQing about being "left behind", and kicked from squad. <Citation above>

    RedMenace

    \Don't call me "mate", Chucklehead
    \\if you can't manage to do any damage when DD, you really *are* fail
    \\\link
    \\\\Got chunks of Kids like you in my droppings

    I call everyone mate mate its habit and not one I am prepared to change for you. Your hostilty is quite amusing and in no way are you impressing me or anyone else with it. I dont blame you though its not your fault you cant speak to people without coming across as abrupt and aggresive. Anyhows not here to talk about this after reading what other people have put I have a better understanding of my class. Thanks to those who can discuss things in a mature manner
  • Ilenka - Harshlands
    Ilenka - Harshlands Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    From my experience, i always rather barbs to do the trick. I have my own level 85 barb and i can manage pretty good to do anything. However on my archer i usually tank up to bh59 bosses.

    Barbs are made for tanking for their huge amounts of hp, where other classes could get one shooted or 2 shooted, they will last at least 6 hits before dying (in case he doesnt heal, nor pot, nor use skills or whatever)

    Barb buff is nice, im a pure dex archer, and with barb buff i get over 6k hp :) yay!

    Barbs are great aggro holders, specially if they spam flesh realm meanwhile letting other guys DD. The only char that could take aggro away from my barb was a level 100 archer with xbow +6... that was insane xD

    Barbs are great to cut channelling (alacrity of the beast): i cant imagine tanking Dimentora in 1-3 without cutting its magic attack... that saves your melee partners to be hit with its aoe..... i used to hear that that boss had to be tanked with a BB in the back.... not anymore if you find the right timing and cut it out.

    Invoke is a great skill at any point, the other day i had to "solo" for some minutes Dimentora, i could do it with invoke and the purple bubble (the one that makes you get chi and cast the magical shell around you if your hp is below 50%), and one jaozi everytime i invoked. (wasnt charmed btw) However, i screwed at the end because instead of invoking again i used double spark... xD however i last good enough without healing on that one. (my barb doesnt have a genie either for now.. so.....)

    I think at the very end, barbs are not only tankers, they can be many things in many ways, even heroes that sacrifices themselves when something goes wrong: partners dead and i lure boss out of room so the cleric can res them and prevent a party wipe.... for instance. I really hate it when barbs, in emergency, take the boss over the party >.<

    Just, play your part, get a good build, top gear with the best hp shards possible, a great weapon... and you will see... When you reach 8x everyone will want a barb for FC. Thats true.
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    frosty0908 wrote: »
    I call everyone mate mate its habit and not one I am prepared to change for you. Your hostilty is quite amusing and in no way are you impressing me or anyone else with it. I dont blame you though its not your fault you cant speak to people without coming across as abrupt and aggresive. Anyhows not here to talk about this after reading what other people have put I have a better understanding of my class. Thanks to those who can discuss things in a mature manner

    Come on - Give us a Hug!

    RedMenace

    \you know you wanna
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Just as a note - dimmy's AOE is fairly short ranged, you can easily heal from outside of that range.

    His long channel actually means he's doing LESS damage when he fires his AOE, so I'd only want it interrupted (or a blue bubble) if you have a primarily melee squad doing the damage, as opposed to casters and archers and veno's.

    But yes - Barb+Cleric can tank stuff WAY before anyone else. The barb is just BETTER.
    But yeah, if you throw enough levels at it, almost anyone can tank almost anything.
  • Crescendia - Harshlands
    Crescendia - Harshlands Posts: 805 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    When you get high level, you shouldn't complain about what you cant tank, unless you like spending 50k-130k in repair costs per day. Maybe when you start getting BH69 or start doing TT, you'll appreciate other people tanking for you.

    Honestly, If you don't feel you're needed as a Barb when its one of the hardest class find to fill a squad, maybe you are doing something wrong? Fist BM's aren't really OP at your level until you are about level 90+, so try to make an effort to be a better aggro keeper. Nothing below level 90 is worth refining over +4.
    Originally Posted by Curses - Harshlands

    Sidenote: hilarious name for a boat: "Yeah Buoy".

    b:laughb:laugh
  • wtvdie
    wtvdie Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Fuzzy can see where you are coming from, but there is a time and a place for everything. Veno with pet or BM or whatever want to tank a boss? Why not? It will save you some coin on your repair bill.

    But when it comes to being a tank, there is nothing like the satisfaction of tanking a world boss and holding agro from your entire faction as they all smash away on it. b:laugh

    just like a fist bm with -int can do. except, cause of alter, we take less dmg than the barbs.
  • ZwyIIa - Lost City
    ZwyIIa - Lost City Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited May 2010
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    Sry i might sound like a noob, indeed i am since i've stopped playing for a huge amount of time, but i made a psy atm 70+...
    And it seams to me that the def lvl buff is not debuffable... i'm not sure yet, but i think the buff stays...b:shocked

    that would mean barbs have no more purpose in TW too since a good psy could afford 90+ def lvl b:sad

    Plz be sure to correct me if i'm wrong, idk yet that much how works sins and psysb:surrender

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