Assassin & Psychic Demon/Sage Skills

13

Comments

  • EvAxx - Sanctuary
    EvAxx - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    to get that APS you cant use CoD. without CoD a sage sin is a sage fist BM. you arent killing anything but a charm.

    I'd have to disagree with you and agree with Mizuoni. A demon assassin's selling point is it's ability to get to 5 APS relatively easily. A sage doesn't have to use CoD. Even without CoD, it's normal hit damage is in no way lacking from a demon's. In fact it's better in terms of DPH. A sage has better control skills, a spark that reduces damage by 33%, and slightly better damage due to dagger devotion. If a sage can reach 4 APS, it should clearly be better than a demon sin in pvp. However, to reach 4 APS, it needs to spend A LOT of coins/gold.
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'd have to disagree with you and agree with Mizuoni. A demon assassin's selling point is it's ability to get to 5 APS relatively easily. A sage doesn't have to use CoD. Even without CoD, it's normal hit damage is in no way lacking from a demon's. In fact it's better in terms of DPH. A sage has better control skills, a spark that reduces damage by 33%, and slightly better damage due to dagger devotion. If a sage can reach 4 APS, it should clearly be better than a demon sin in pvp. However, to reach 4 APS, it needs to spend A LOT of coins/gold.

    all a demon sin has to do to have better control over a target is NOT get tackling slash. demon deep sting, headhunt, shadow teleport all extend the duration of their controls.

    a sage sin who doesnt use COD has no damage bonus over a demon sin either.


    triple spark reduces damage 25% not 33%.

    5 APS is a huge damage difference over 4 APS, especially when fighting a high HP barb.


    sage sins best bet at killing anything is killermates bramble video show.

    power dash > subsea > bramble rage with CoD up this will be deadly
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    to get that APS you cant use CoD. without CoD a sage sin is a sage fist BM. you arent killing anything but a charm.

    once you reach a certain point in APS, sage win would be better because 25% damage reduction > 25% faster attack rate.

    You think sage fist BMs cant kill? Come meet swordman b:shocked
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    once you reach a certain point in APS, sage win would be better because 25% damage reduction > 25% faster attack rate.

    i was writing a post on this and it got eaten......

    anyway you are correct. at 4 APS a sage sin will beat out a demon sin fighting each other with triple spark up DPS and DPH wise.

    at 3.33 he does not however so he will need every single piece of int gear to beat the demon sin.

    even in PvE the sage comes on top in terms of tanking and hp healed (thanks to 3% BP)

    Demon will kill the target much faster however, at the cost of taking more damage and healing himself for a bit less(more if the sage sin is 3.33 APS)

    it's actually quite tempting to go sage since the ultimate use for my sin will end up being HH farming. but in the end i want to keep a permanent 5 APS and kill my targets more quickly.

    and again, sin vs sin will always end up being who struck who first.

    sage - better survivability, slightly higher base damage, incredible damage numbers with CoD

    demon - higher DPS, more damage from crits, better stuns/ control of opponent (i'd never get demon tackling. not worth it IMO) only thing i wish on the demon skills is dagger mastery should have given 2% crit. 1 seems too low but 3 too high.
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    You think sage fist BMs cant kill? Come meet swordman b:shocked


    Sage BM's generally fail. of all the classes in the game, i consider sage for a bm worse than going sage on EA or barb. i do like them for their pdef buff...but thats about it.

    most sage bm/barb fights i see end up lasting an hour and both give up or 1 runs off because their charm is gone. come to LC west gate some time and have a look.
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • _maddhatter_ - Lost City
    _maddhatter_ - Lost City Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    idk...sage seems better. reason I say this is because for one, rib strike...sounds epic, but your first hit is going your opponents HP down more than 10% so imo that effect is kind of void...idk maybe I am wrong, try to explain if I am.

    and secondly, with +5 extra attack level, from chill, hitting harder with demon skills seems void as well lol.

    oh and 3% bloodpaint b:heart
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    _maddhatter_ - Lost City wrote: »
    idk...sage seems better. reason I say this is because for one, rib strike...sounds epic, but your first hit is going your opponents HP down more than 10% so imo that effect is kind of void...idk maybe I am wrong, try to explain if I am.

    and secondly, with +5 extra attack level, from chill, hitting harder with demon skills seems void as well lol.

    oh and 3% bloodpaint b:heart

    demons hit hard and fast without skills. skills are used for the effect.

    3% BP is quite nice.

    if the rib strike works like archers hp debuff, the debuff is applied before the damage dealt. thats going to be better than 65% debuff. less hp on bosses and makes barbs easier too.\

    +5 att levels will be nice.

    sage has a lot of survival strengths. it also has very high DPH

    demon has great target control and higher DPS
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Ahknatn - Heavens Tear
    Ahknatn - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Pinball_Map - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Demon: Bleed Time reduced by 3 seconds

    wtf? isnt that kinda counter productive?
  • Munsu - Lost City
    Munsu - Lost City Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    No the lesser the bleed time the more damage that will be packed in the shorter duration of time.

    But than again that skill is pretty useless anyway so it doesn't really matter lol.


    And also 25% attack speed> 25% damage reduction.

    In pvp the damage reduction from sage spark is hardly noticeable, while the attack speed from demon spark can end fights in seconds.

    I don't see why any sage sin would go with attack speed, when attack speed coincides with demon so well. Demon Slipstream strike and Demon rib strike make demon sins attack speed worthwhile. And the increased rage damage of wolf emblem and increased duration of power dash make the quick spurts of attack speed even more devastating on a demon sin.

    Going interval while being sage is kind of wasting most of the sage skills you get.
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Munsu - Lost City wrote: »
    No the lesser the bleed time the more damage that will be packed in the shorter duration of time.

    But than again that skill is pretty useless anyway so it doesn't really matter lol.


    And also 25% attack speed> 25% damage reduction.

    In pvp the damage reduction from sage spark is hardly noticeable, while the attack speed from demon spark can end fights in seconds.

    I don't see why any sage sin would go with attack speed, when attack speed coincides with demon so well. Demon Slipstream strike and Demon rib strike make demon sins attack speed worthwhile. And the increased rage damage of wolf emblem and increased duration of power dash make the quick spurts of attack speed even more devastating on a demon sin.

    Going interval while being sage is kind of wasting most of the sage skills you get.

    there is a reason to go sage and also go for interval: PvE HH slave

    ....thats pretty much the only reason to be an interval sage sin
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • TurboTaxi - Lost City
    TurboTaxi - Lost City Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ahknatn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    wtf? isnt that kinda counter productive?

    nope, bleed time reduced means that the dmg ticks are LARGER. ^_^ so the opponent loser larger amounts of hp over a shorter amount of time. =]
    "Stay cool, be respectful, know your limits, and accept it when you've lost....

    ...then maybe i'll stick around a bit longer. b:victory" -Anonymous

    93 Barb (BattleBurger)
    100 Assassin (TurboTaxi)
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    So there's talk that the developers are thinking about changing demon spark. . .
    as in nerfing increased attack speed...
    How do all of you that chose/plan to choose demon feel about that? b:chuckle
  • Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver
    Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Personally I am about 65% Sparking Sin and 35% Skill Spam Sin. That meaning that I more often use Sparks than I do Skill Spams, but it leaves me torn. I think I'm probably going to go Demon for these reasons:

    Innately faster
    Better for Sparking Sins
    Very nice skills (b:dirty Ribstrike)
    Still capable of skill spam
    Being called a Demonic Assassin is cooler too b:chuckle

    One thing I've noticed is that most people seem to forget that a Demon Sin can use CotD too. Yeah, it's not as specialized as Sage CotD, but we can still use it. That makes us able to go from really fast sparker sin to decent damage skill spam spiker sin.

    I guess the same could possibly be said about Sages. Able to be an insane spiker, but still being able to reach moderately high attack speeds.

    I think I just convinced myself to go Demon writing this... <.<
    Kuroi_Sin
    The Holy Black Assassin
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I will quote Daji, a level 101 Venom from the Sanctuary server directly from a thread in the General Discussion forum:
    Daji - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Beta test for new skills open today in CN PWI. Sage version much better than demon one but this may change since it still in beta. Hopefully soon.
    . . .
    PS. Sage force stealth cool down reduce 15 second.

    PS. There is a talk that the developer in CN wanting to change demon spark (attack rate and damage). This will affect a lot of BM wished to go fist/claw. So I sent a note to the developer warning them the potential of losing player base in US PWI if the change reaches us but the GM here will need to do their job too.

    Just for those of you who haven't seen this already. Seems sage is much better.
  • RADD_RATT - Harshlands
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    I will quote Daji, a level 101 Venom from the Sanctuary server directly from a thread in the General Discussion forum:



    Just for those of you who haven't seen this already. Seems sage is much better.

    will you people just shut up and let them go demon already!
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    switching paths aint hard after that patch anyways, so doesnt matter.
  • Nerruse - Lost City
    Nerruse - Lost City Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Problem with attack rate is that high lvl daggers (apart from HH80 - which is too low lvl anyway) doesnt have -interval. Fists has 1.43 speed and -0.1 interval while dagger is 1.25. I think its hard to get 5.0 or even 4.0 attack rate.

    U need 0.25 and 0.2 for 4/5 attacks per sec.

    Sin has 0.8 normally
    cape - 0.05
    glove - 0.1
    tome - 0.05
    rank 8 armor - 0.1
    nirvana pants - 0.05
    2x HH99 - 0.05

    U end up at 0.4 which is 2.5 attack rate b:worried
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Nerruse - Lost City wrote: »
    Problem with attack rate is that high lvl daggers (apart from HH80 - which is too low lvl anyway) doesnt have -interval. Fists has 1.43 speed and -0.1 interval while dagger is 1.25. I think its hard to get 5.0 or even 4.0 attack rate.

    U need 0.25 and 0.2 for 4/5 attacks per sec.

    Sin has 0.8 normally
    cape - 0.05
    glove - 0.1
    tome - 0.05
    rank 8 armor - 0.1
    nirvana pants - 0.05
    2x HH99 - 0.05

    U end up at 0.4 which is 2.5 attack rate b:worried

    you forgot you can get the 99 bonus twice. pdef orns and 2 LA gold. thats .35 right there.

    you can get OHT daggers with -.5 on them. also 1st stage nirvana daggers have -.1 thats .25 for 4 APS

    nice semi-necro
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Nerruse - Lost City
    Nerruse - Lost City Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    So sin max attack rate is 4.0 unbuffed. Which means only demon can get perma 5.0 by constantly sparking right?
  • TurboTaxi - Lost City
    TurboTaxi - Lost City Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    could've sworn i've heard a few 10x bms sayin max aps got capped to 4 aps. *shrugs*

    N to the E to the C to the R to the what the OoOoOo....
    "Stay cool, be respectful, know your limits, and accept it when you've lost....

    ...then maybe i'll stick around a bit longer. b:victory" -Anonymous

    93 Barb (BattleBurger)
    100 Assassin (TurboTaxi)
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Nerruse - Lost City wrote: »
    So sin max attack rate is 4.0 unbuffed. Which means only demon can get perma 5.0 by constantly sparking right?

    I think sins can get 5 without IAS. Kays.
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    I think sins can get 5 without IAS. Kays.

    it's not plausible unless you meant with fists. then yes they can.

    Daggers
    Fists
    Base
    .8
    .7
    99 wrists=
    .7
    .6
    99 LA bonus
    .65
    .55
    99 HA bonus
    .6
    .5
    cape
    .55
    .45
    tome
    .5
    .4
    nirvana pants
    .45
    .35
    rank 8 top
    .35
    .25
    Weapon
    .25
    .15
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    it's not plausible unless you meant with fists. then yes they can.

    Daggers
    Fists
    Base
    .8
    .7
    99 wrists=
    .7
    .6
    99 LA bonus
    .65
    .55
    99 HA bonus
    .6
    .5
    cape
    .55
    .45
    tome
    .5
    .4
    nirvana pants
    .45
    .35
    rank 8 top
    .35
    .25
    Weapon
    .20
    .15

    You can recast nirvana dagger to total -.15 interval right?
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    You can recast nirvana dagger to total -.15 interval right?

    potentially yes. dont think anyone has yet though. i'd settle for -.1 and zerk/adv zerk
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Yep. So I win!
    With the gear in my previous post, a sage sin attacks 5 times/second anytime of the day and when trisparked, has 25% reduced damage.
    Anyways, more importantly...you owes me cookies (rapture crystals will do too) naow Trawne.
    b:cute
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Yep. So I win!
    With the gear in my previous post, a sage sin attacks 5 times/second anytime of the day and when trisparked, has 25% reduced damage.
    Anyways, more importantly...you owes me cookies (rapture crystals will do too) naow Trawne.
    b:cute

    i cant give cookies to people i cant find b:cry
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Zabuzan - Sanctuary
    Zabuzan - Sanctuary Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I guess sage would be for more powerful slower attacks cuz I guess with sage you just put chill on and go around 1 shotting people

    Demon on the other hand is less powerful faster attacks which I guess you just stun people with shadow tele and kill em before seconds even up

    For me Demon would be much more fun imagine this you use tackling slash then demon spark then demon rib strike all you do is DD and their dead so I guess Demon for me <3
  • XWizz - Lost City
    XWizz - Lost City Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    necro -_- lol
    Reasons to be an Assassin - Invisibility...and the additional benefit of doing damage that should be illegal.
  • deathtr0ll
    deathtr0ll Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    yo yo i'm still not sure i wanted to go sage seems i like to tank with my assassin but now seeing the skills i think i might as well go with demon seem i have gear that lets me tank. Seems as demon i'll do more damage and have more hp
    Still undecided :)
  • deathtr0ll
    deathtr0ll Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    i seen a -.5 belt in ah before
  • Forcas - Lost City
    Forcas - Lost City Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    deathtr0ll wrote: »
    i seen a -.5 belt in ah before

    no you didn't, they don't exist. the MAX you can get is 4.0 base atk with all aps gear. HH99 ha belt/neck, H99 la boot/wrist, pan gu tome, aps robe, r8 chest, nv 2nd cast legs, and either NV daggers or by rolling -.05 aps TWICe on either g15 or g16 daggers. ALL of that = 4.0 base. BUT.... they say that rolling .05 aps 3 times on weapons IS possible... but the odds of getting .05 is 5%.... so rolling it 3 times on one weapon is completely unheard of, never been done. so for now 4.0 is the maximum BASE aps u can get. 3.33 base = 5.0 demon sparked. Also, 4.0 base + spark and then use wind shield from genie for 5.0 aps.

    (TIP: keep your' windshield level 1: it costs LESS genie stamina so you can cast it more often. my sin can cast it 4 times in a row effectively before it runs out, which is about 20-30 seconds of extra aps) the genie skill does NOT stack with demon spark or any other aps. As far as currently known.... NO APS buffs (spark, red bubble, wind shield (or other genie), ect, ect) stack with each other. word to the wise. if you use wind shield after u demon spark... u will ovewrite the 2 aps ranks u get for it with the one aps rank u get off genie.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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