Will the drop rate EVER be raised?

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Make it worthwhile... That's subjective. You want a freaking free handout, like BH exp rewards, with maximum amount of reward with a minimal amount of effort.

DO YOUR DAMN QUESTS. That's where you'll gain coin and make money. Geez. GRIND FOR AN HOUR A DAY. Don't do BH, don't do Crazy Stones. Try this for a week. I bet you end up with a couple mil saved in no time.

I don't even have to say that anymore b:chuckle hehe

lately ive been doing the bounty hunter 79 89 every boss in 79 89 has only dropped about 7 piles of just coin
its alittle sad

Dump EXP into genies. Sell genies. Profit.

And your example:
Farmer A knows about Hunter. Farmer B does not. Information is valuable. Furthermore, for many merchanting operations ingame, it's more like this:

Merchant sets up shop in town. Hunter sells to Merchant's shop in town, because it's closer to him than Farmer, and pays more than the shop out in the woods. Farmer buys from shop in town, because it's closer to him than Hunter's cabin out in the woods.

Hunter is happy because he gets more money for his stuff than if he sold to his local shop (NPC). Merchant is happy because he makes money. Farmer is happy because he doesn't have to walk all the way out to the woods to buy his stuff, he only has to go as far as town.

As for "depending" on the second farmer's "stupidity", let me ask you this. Where do you buy eggs? From the grocery store that's 5 minutes away, or from the farm that's an hour away? I can guarantee you the second will be cheaper in terms of money.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

What has this got to do with buying low, selling high? b:question

I wasn't criticizing exchange. I was criticizing merchanting.

It's like, the farmer decides to buy meat low from hunter, then sell it high to another farmer. Let me tell you, the second farmer LOSES money while the first one wins. If the second farmer was SMART enough to buy from the hunter for cheap, the first farmer's "merchanting strategy" would collapse. He depends on the "idiot second farmer".

Crazy Stones, yes, it is a "handout" of exp for cash, no fun at all. BHs can be more fun than grinding and more social.

Where did you get the idea that I don't do my quests? I've done absolutely all quests, my quest log is empty, AND on top of that, I grind 2 or 3 hours every day. But it's getting boring.

The thing is, I want to replace that grinding with something more fun. The problem is that all other ways of making coins are gimped and that there's no "daily cash quest". This means they are not worthwile compared to grinding. That's what I said by making it worthwile.

BHs are much more worthwile in terms of exp than grinding. I want something similar to coin dailies. I have no problem whatsoever with making BHs more challenging at all, after all, they are a fun part of the game for me. Grinding is just... boring after a while. b:sad


To be honest BHs were a great addition to the game, less boring and more fun to play and level, if only they would add coin dailies to keep the same ratio as before BHs...

(and I don't "level fast" with BHs... cause I have to dump exp in my genie (and upgrade so many skills) plus you need like... 2.5 BH days for a level without any exp dump/dying, that's not "fast" by any means)

What other ways to make coin are there?

1) TT mats sell for too cheap and there's just too few drops per run. It's rarely that I get even 1 freaking mat per run. EVEN ONE. Yes running TTs is more fun than grinding, but 90% of the time I end up with negative profit, since I burn through pots or arctic orbs and don't get a mat at all 90% of the time since I get the "last pick". The reason I don't do them much, only when I'm terribly bored and have stuff to burn. (so I lose)

(in fact, to be fair, I've only done TTs to complete my quests, like the Chrono Quest line at lvl70)

2) Why the **** can't they add a coin-reward for the Public Quest instead of exp? Not to mention I burn through pots like crazy in it, so it's a huge negative profit coin-wise. Every freaking fun thing in this game is a coin sink and an exp fountain. b:angry

3) Gamma will be an option later but it is very hard and the 500k reward is not very worthwhile seeing as it takes 2-3 hours to complete...

Is it so freaking hard to add a fun thing to do with coins as reward that is more worthwhile than grinding? Why are there so many other things more worthwhile than grinding exp-wise, but not coin-wise?

THIS is why I am pissed.

Let me ask you this. What would giving coin generators accomplish, asides from letting players purchase skills and npc gears more easily?

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

The main culprits were: Honey Juice (to get started), Jolly Jones, Battle Pet Packs, Tokens->Oracles, Anniversary Packs, Coral Packs, and now Tiger Packs, with Perfect Stones filling in the gaps. But I'm sure there are plenty of others out there that I'm just not familiar with.

ok. i wasnt playing the game for the jolly jones thing and the hyper exp stones ruined the tokens--> oracles for me. I suppose i'll just keep trying till i can get 45 gold for the tiger packs (genious idea by the way). thank u for ur help.

on topic :

to those of u who say the 3 trillion coins dropping is gonna do nothing. ur wrong. Yes the prices on everything else will go up. I realize that. HOWEVER right now at lvl 85.. my main cost in coins is my friggen abilities. 3 trillion pays for that and everything else adjusts to the extreme drop rate that would give. Basicly if i could get all the money back from the money i spent on skills.. i would be one rich ****.

been suggested over and over and over and over and over and over all in about a week.. jenna, really? yew of all ppl?

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't grind for exp anymore -- I do BHs for that, and frankly, it's much more of a GAME and fun than grinding -- not to mention, more social, even though it's kinda easy (but still, teamwork required!)

I do grind for coins, and you know why? Because there's no freaking other, more fun way, and more worth than it. There are PLENTY stuff more worth than grinding exp-wise, but NONE that I know of coin-wise.

That's all I'm saying. Make "making coins" fun like they did with exp dailies and/or Public Quest and all the other stuff. And by "making coins" I mean "making them AT LEAST on par with grinding", aka worthwhile.

Is it so much to ask from a game to be... you know, more fun? And from a MMO to be more social than just endlessly solo grinding?


I don't want "free cash", because frankly that's not fun at all. I simply want fun dailies or quests (like the Public Quest) that give you coins so grinding can become a thing of the past. Unfortunately NOTHING is worthwhile in coins at the moment, that's why it UTTERLY SUCKS. Most god damn fun repeatable quests SUCK because they are only focused on god damn exp.

Drop rate increased in TTs might make them worthwhile as well -- at the moment, it's still better to grind for it. Of course, BHs are more fun AND better than grinding, and so are public quests... but OBVIOUSLY only for "exp". b:sad

"Fun" is a very subjective word. Some people, perhaps majority of people in this game seem to think running 5 TT runs to finish all their gears is fun. Some people think levelling once every week from doing pretty much nothing is fun. Some people only want to reap the rewards without putting in the effort, and deem that as "fun".

Like I posted on another thread in agreement with another member, this generation of gaming has gone down the easy path of no return. Everything is easy easy easy. Everything is instantaneous, everything is risk free.

This is just my own opinion, and of course I won't deny you your own fun. But I disagree that grinding is a thing of the past. I still grind. I don't mind killing 30 000 mobs to level up, and I've done it before. Endgame is supposed to be just that. The end. Which is supposed to require time and effort investment, not 2 hours a day for a month.

The same deal with money. You wanna be rich, you have to work for it. If you settle for ordinary, then you do what you normally do. You want to raise the coin/exp ratio? Simple. Stop doing those BHs and crazy stones and save on those wine and stone fees. Poof, almost a mil saved weekly.

I don't think you're wrong, but I think there should be a balance. And right now I really don't feel like there's anything wrong.

drop rate being raised permanently = bad idea, would just lead to the faster inevitable death of teh economy.
and everyone would just end up with more coin(s) which be worth less.
b:surrender

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Michael_Dark: Free coin handout? Do you consider Public Quest a free exp handout as well?

I have nothing against investing TIME into this game, if it needs that. But make that time FUN, not feel like a WORK, as in grinding. b:surrender

Yes, I consider BH, CS, MQ and Hyper Frost to be EXP giveaways.

You just don't get it... The game is too easy at it is... there is no challenge... so you're asking for another 'fun' instance that gives you money. I'll still call that a giveaway.

I guess I wouldn't be against giving people a choice between exp and coin reward for BH, but not both.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Michael_Dark: Free coin handout? Do you consider Public Quest a free exp handout as well?

Honestly dude, just because you grew up/lvled in a grinding generation for PWI doesn't mean that was a "fun activity" or how the game should be.

Why the hell do you think that grinding is NOT a "handout", while a quest that is more fun, and is worth similarly (not less, like currently) coin-wise, is a "free handout"?

Example: you do 1 hour grinding, get 120k coins after expenses. (example only)

Make a damn fun quest/instance that takes, on average, 1 hour, and gets you 120k coins as reward. All freaking such quests are nerfed coin-wise in comparison to grinding. All are just good for exp.

Of course the above example is gimped, because 120k is too low as comparison with say, higher lvl AOE grinding. But don't think of the numbers, think of the "idea" behind it.

How is that a free handout? All I see from it, is a different shift in activity. A more fun one that is. Do you honestly think any FUN thing in this game, any instance, is a "free handout" of exp or coin or whatever? Meh.

You know, I'm getting tired of your "work hard for this game" arguments. This is a freaking game, not my job. I'm playing it to enjoy it, not as a part-time job. b:angry

I have nothing against investing TIME into this game, if it needs that. But make that time FUN, not feel like a WORK, as in grinding. b:surrender

Just wanted to say, grinding is not a thing of the past. It's not an antiquated way of leveling. It's not an archaic way to gain exp.

Although I may be speaking for the minority here, but I'm sure some of the gamers in this community still feel a sense of accomplishment when they spend hours grinding to hit high levels. I'm sure some of the gamers still feel self-fulfillment when they earn their wealth. I'm sure there's people, somewhere out there, who after pouring hours into repetitive grinding, like to look at the people around them and know the time they invested was worth it.

I know for one I am one of these people.

Ideally, this is what I like to see in MMO's.

"Wow nice, you're level 100. How long did that take?"
"Thanks man. I've been playing for around 2 years. Took me 6 hours a day of running instances, grinding and questing."

This is not what I like.

"O_O You're level 100! How long did that take?"
"A month. MQ, WQ, Crazy Stone, Hyper Frost and oracles FTW man!!"

Once again, these are my own opinions and I will not force them on you.

By all means, make levelling fun. Make making money fun. But there is a fine line between easy and fun. Things can be fun and challenging. Unfortunately, to many people, easy and fun go hand in hand.

On more of a personal note, is reaping the big monetary reward at the end the fun part for you, or is it the process of getting that money, regardless of the amount, fun for you?

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

What do you mean by "challenge

Old Frost... Old Lunar, Crystal Terror, Herzen Sori Demos, old Primal Fear... dying 100 times trying to figure out how to kill some incredibly difficult boss, having your eyes pop out when a 3* drops, being completely shocked when a mold drops, being proud you actually farmed a piece of gear... nothing much that any newcomer to the game would actually be able to understand or enjoy.

All things you would take for granted while popping on your +10 att/def blessing, using your pulling genie to grab a boss in a wined instance 10 levels lower than the lowest player in the squad playing follow-the-leader to maximize wine fees for a particular instance so you can turn it in a half hour later to get 200k exp only to go to your MQ, CS and WQ and get 75% of your level in a couple hour sitting.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Old Frost = Hell No!!! That thing was insane and the same for Lunar >_> b:cry

I agree with you though Michael on much of what you have said in all your most recent posts. The game is much easier now then it was even a few months ago.

Just imagine old Frost with the gears that people have now... I'm sure it would be pretty amazing and it would still be a challenge. There's nothing tough like that on PWI anymore. Everything else has been repetitively overdone to death.

Lunar was a lot of fun, you just needed 6 hours or so to finish it. Now there's little challenge.

Well I guess some droprates in the game could be higher
Namely TT drops from 3x and Lunar drops also card boss drops could be increased and the prices for crafting job books in gold shop have to be increased sharply and the crafting percentages for extra stats could be modified.

But I agree that the main problem is not the droprate it is the worth of the drops. On the one hand the item drop rate from bosses and mobs is designed for a grinding type game on the other hand there are several other ways of obtaining the dropped items but all of them require gold or coins.

Personally I would like to see that actually playing the game would allow people to be competitive with the cash shoppers but since rank gear is the new endgame armor and Instances like TT 3x and Lunar are a) hard to complete without having equal or better gear than the one you want to grind/farm for and b) the time and coins you need to spend to get the mats out of repeatedly playing the instance isnt worth the effort because the market offers the items for cheaper prices = pwi discourages people to play instances so you have now either the option to merchant or to cash shop or to grind/play other instances to sell the items from there to be able to purchase the items from the first instance that isnt worth playing anymore on the market. So for instance some people said well nobody wants to play TT 3x or lunar ok then I go and play Nirvana instead and sell those items so I can buy perfect stones for mats or items on the market. The problem here is that in the end you have the choose how you want to play PW. If you want to play "effective" you can just go for a sin and merchant so you have a) great solo abilities and b) you can raise money the fastest way but

you should really think if a mmorpg isnt about different classes having to work together in a team to accomplish a mission where every single character in the squad is usefull and has to do a great job to fullfill the mission.

When I joined PWI every single piece of armor including the endgame gear was farmable and the point mentioned here : lazy people buy it players spend time for it was true because eventually both parties ended up with the same result. Now some of the old systems have become obsolete because imagine how long it will take to obtain a warsoul weapon or a warsoul barrier belt if you really would play for it. Even worse I heared that PWI has removed the items from the Incarnate which have to be collected to obtain the belt.... i mean this is just an example where you can see that the current prices of some items on the market doesnt reflect how hard they are to obtain. And thats simply because the market is flooded with some high lvl items from packs.

To be honest an increase in coin drops wont harm the economy much since the packs are 1000 times worse and the amount of people who would grind and benefit from that would be relatively low. The idea of saving the economy by adding more coin sinks also doesnt help because in the long run the amount of items and coins on the market will rise anyway like in every mmorpg because lets say in the first year TT 3.3 was completed X times with i drops after the 2nd year with the same playerbase the instance would be completed 2*Xtimes with a total amount of drops from i*2 = the price for 1 item from i has to fall the half and so on. So the only way to keep up the demand for an item from i would be if the item would be consumed lets say converted into a bound item so it can no longer be traded on the market and the playerbase has to increase to keep the demand stable. The only reason why PWI is not interested in increasing the drop rates it that they have to assure the demand for their packs sttays stable.

The problem with this strategy however is that in the long run the playerbase of players who like to play and earn their stuff from playing will convert into a playerbase of cash players. In the end the cash players will realize that the only way to keep up with others is to spend more cash like the r9 or gtfo in pvp atm and the amount of non cash players they can pwn with their cool cash advantage will get lower and lower because the game wont be rewarding for new players because playing it the old fashioned way wont help them to get to the top. But I guess that wont be a problem for PWI anyway because to them this game is a product with a product life cycle and atm the game is treated as a big cash cow and they wont regret it when the game will have to be shut down in 2 or 3 years because it is totally ruined they will have made enough money with it and thats it.

All updates are only for a) milking the cow or b) trying to slow down the process of game destruction a bit with some measures which sound nice but dont change the basic problems in the end ( like the new r8 upgrade system)

greetz harm0wnie