Will the drop rate EVER be raised?
Jennalicious - Sanctuary
Posts: 1,073 Arc User
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick of killing a lvl 8x mob and getting like only200 coins for it. Will the drop rates ever be raised, or will the only way to make money still be through cash-shopping and merchanting? Frankie mentioned major changes happening this year. Will something be done so all players can enjoy the game and not just the cash shoppers?
A GM response would be nice. Trolls are welcome too. After all, every thread made usually gets taken over by them eventually anyways.
I'm seriously thinking about leaving this game, as well as are alot of others. And before any of you say that you don't care, don't waste your time or mine.
A GM response would be nice. Trolls are welcome too. After all, every thread made usually gets taken over by them eventually anyways.
I'm seriously thinking about leaving this game, as well as are alot of others. And before any of you say that you don't care, don't waste your time or mine.
Post edited by Jennalicious - Sanctuary on
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Im in agreement with this. Also gear that gives + to stealth detection and gold drops.
Also why does it seam that no mob will ever drop more than 946 coins. They gotta buy potions that cost 3k a piece too ya know.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
xRiney - League of Legends. TwilightSparkle / Rarity - Path of Exile closed beta. Dark_Marine - Firefall
Proud brony.0 -
Hey speaking of the stealth detection,
I was hoping one of those blank genie skill slots was for something along those lines tooWhere have all the mages gone. Long time casting.
Who altered my siggy im
kinda scared b:shocked0 -
Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick of killing a lvl 8x mob and getting like only200 coins for it. Will the drop rates ever be raised, or will the only way to make money still be through cash-shopping and merchanting? Frankie mentioned major changes happening this year. Will something be done so all players can enjoy the game and not just the cash shoppers?
A GM response would be nice. Trolls are welcome too. After all, every thread made usually gets taken over by them eventually anyways.
Making money? Oh please, everytime you go out to kill mobs, you make money.
If they increased the coin drops, they would also increase the amount of coins in the circulation and the market would soon adapt to that, effectively changing nothing.
If they were to increase the drop rates of rare mats, that would result in them being cheaper, but people being forced to merchant for their income, since TTs would be less profitable then.
And besides, the endgame gear is just that, endgame. It's not meant to be easy.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Dunno how you figure more coins would be in circulation. Cash shoppers aren't going to go out and farm mobs for coins, they're just going to buy gold to sell.
so when 3 more people suddenly have enough coins to buy that Lunar insignia, they arent going to raise the price, they're just gonna sell it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
xRiney - League of Legends. TwilightSparkle / Rarity - Path of Exile closed beta. Dark_Marine - Firefall
Proud brony.0 -
Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »Making money? Oh please, everytime you go out to kill mobs, you make money.
If they increased the coin drops, they would also increase the amount of coins in the circulation and the market would soon adapt to that, effectively changing nothing.
If they were to increase the drop rates of rare mats, that would result in them being cheaper, but people being forced to merchant for their income, since TTs would be less profitable then.
And besides, the endgame gear is just that, endgame. It's not meant to be easy.
I'm not talking about rare mats, TT mats, gold mats or whatever else. I'm talking about more coin drops and more drops on normal items to sell and make more money on. 200 coins per enemy gets you nothing.0 -
I'm glad I never chose to LVL yet even for so long b:bye But idk... if you guys only getting coins, then that would be a prob[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
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I agree, drop rates are lame sometimes. Just the other day i killed around 190 mobs and ended up with something like 15-17 DQ items, a few pots and 0 pieces of random gear. Maybe it was just me being unlucky, but come on...0
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If the mobs are giving more coin and drops (sold to NPC merchants for coin), it increases the number of coin in circulation.Riney - Raging Tide wrote: »Dunno how you figure more coins would be in circulation. Cash shoppers aren't going to go out and farm mobs for coins, they're just going to buy gold to sell.
If 3 more people suddenly have enough coins to buy that lunar insignia, they're also gonna have more coin to buy gold, which will push up the price of gold. The lunar insignia comes from a cash shop item, so its price will increase accordingly as well. Net result is the 3 people are gonna have to grind pretty much the same amount of time to pay for a lunar insignia no matter what you do to the drop rate.so when 3 more people suddenly have enough coins to buy that Lunar insignia, they arent going to raise the price, they're just gonna sell it.
You have to remember that the value of coin isn't static. The coin in this case represents the amount of effort needed to to obtain it by grinding. If you decrease the amount of effort needed to gain the same amount of coin, all that will happen is the value of coin will drop. The price of gold and other items will go up in response.
This is why the best luck tokens are evil evil evil. They give you coin for no effort, and so totally **** up the economy by increasing the amount of coin. Measured against an external metric (say, how much wealth you have if you sold everything and bought gold) every time someone turns in two best luck tokens for 10 mil, they increase their wealth by reducing everyone else's wealth.0 -
Blah, blah, blah and blah. I agree with OP and I'm considering the same move. There are other gams that are somehow playable and econom somehow works so your funny attempts to show yourself as economy experts doesn't talk to me.
EDIT:
It simply has no chace to change. If you wanna balanced f2p game then cs content must be like fashion, nice looking mounts with same speed as non cs etc., it may allow some better potions and exp boosters but nothig intrusive like weapons, charms, mounts that are having 6x better speed bost, lets be straight. CS here conains everything and even more.
Another choice is subscription based game.
PWI is simply pixel selling shop and nothing more, it's not a game anymore.0 -
Plenty of other games. Trust me, once you make a move from PW you'll wonder why you ever played at all.
Anyway, an increase in coin pumped into the system would be easily solved by adding more useful and desirable items to the NPC, which would be another huge improvement to the game and balance it more for non-cash shoppers.
Of course, it hurts their profit, so big no no. Nearly any other F2P game gives a little back to the players, through NPC sales, item drop events or free item events... but sadly not PWI =/0 -
i have played on a private server with 500x coin drop and ironicaly some things are cheaper there than on pwi so that throws all arguments that more coin = higher prices. gold prices there are 450k at the highest. most expensive things are the typical things youd expect to be expensive like the endgame gear even a warsoul being sold for 200mil is easily farmable by the time you are high enough to use it there.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
*sigh* I started as one of the few fists bms. I was ridiculed left and right now ur laughed at if you're not a fist bm. b:surrender0 -
Statements like this always give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. It reassures me that I'll always continue to have customers who don't understand economics, and thus are willing to give me their money.Pervera - Lost City wrote: »Blah, blah, blah and blah. I agree with OP and I'm considering the same move. There are other gams that are somehow playable and econom somehow works so your funny attempts to show yourself as economy experts doesn't talk to me.
The thing is, I'm no expert and I know it. But I also understand the basics, which is why I'm rollicking in the free money. If you don't think the advice of people who are rich in-game is worth listening to, well, there's your answer as to why you're poor.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
The thing is, in a... *cough* perfect world, we wouldn't have to choose between listening to people like you and being poor.WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Statements like this always give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. It reassures me that I'll always continue to have customers who don't understand economics, and thus are willing to give me their money.
The thing is, I'm no expert and I know it. But I also understand the basics, which is why I'm rollicking in the free money. If you don't think the advice of people who are rich in-game is worth listening to, well, there's your answer as to why you're poor.
The game does need balance. The possibility of making money through merchanting != balance.
I second the request for a GM response...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
thats just the thing, one shouldnt have to give up leveling for money and vice versa. looking at warren, i remember exactly the date: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=157342 he made this thread a little over a year ago.
in said time, ive made 3 characters reach their 89 cults with just a little above average gear/money. he's yet to reach that high, but has a butt ton of money. see whats wrong with this picture?
there needs to be a way to have a medium between the two. one should be able to make money while making exp. hence my thread that died all too fast called 'make killing mobs worth my time.' theres really nothing wrong with more coins being thrown into the market, so long as it keeps circulating and meeting the end of its useable life, much like in a real market.
what's really hurting us are the lack of methods to generate coin, so the only ones making money, are the ones who either A. have some already, B. are the ones injecting more of the coin into the economy via gold. this is just plain stupid. half of these people horde their cash, and the gap between the poor and the rich just seems to get bigger and bigger.
saving like tightwads helps no one, stopping cash flow is bad. especially if there arent enough ways to keep up with said removal of coin. see, its not that we need more coin sinks because there are too many coins, but the fact that people need to stop being coin sinks, so we can get this cash flowing again to stimulate this ****ty economy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »The thing is, in a... *cough* perfect world, we wouldn't have to choose between listening to people like you and being poor.
The game does need balance. The possibility of making money through merchanting != balance.
Sounds a lot like socialism. Since you don't want to listen to the people that actually know how to make money to get it, you expect to have it mostly given to you? Excellent idea.
There should be a new daily quest, talk to an npc wait 30 seconds and receive a million coins. There should be a limit though, you shouldn't be allowed to do this more than once per hour. Then nobody would be poor.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Zimbabwe. Also, Germany. Just in case anyone actually thinks this is a good idea.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »There should be a new daily quest, talk to an npc wait 30 seconds and receive a million coins. There should be a limit though, you shouldn't be allowed to do this more than once per hour. Then nobody would be poor.
People don't seem to understand the difference between coins and wealth. Coins are a medium of exchange. Wealth is buying power. It's not how many coins/dollars/marks/drachma you have that matters, it's what you can buy with them.
Also, I agree that the biggest culprit is the various pack sales. Directly, the Tokens of Best Luck inject a bit less than 5 million coins each into the economy. Less because some people actually use them for other items. Indirectly, oracles also generate coin, at between 1600 and 1900 coins per Token of Luck.
As far as coin sinks go, I can't really think of any that match the scale of the coin sources. There's skill costs, but those are finite. Teleportation fees and Crazy Stone costs are a drop in the bucket. TW is a net source, rather than sink. Perhaps if NPCs actually sold something that was worth the cost...0 -
Since when does grinding constitute having money "given" to you? The only difference is that the coin comes from the server except from other players... but to imply "socialism" from that is really reaching.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Sounds a lot like socialism. Since you don't want to listen to the people that actually know how to make money to get it, you expect to have it mostly given to you? Excellent idea.
But wait, people can still make small amounts of money from DQs! Double drop events are socailist nightmares! Remove all DQ drops! Grinding should feel like work with no possible reward! It's the only way our glorious free market can live!
:P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
I think the real issue is that you need a LOT of coin to play effectively. Maxing you skills? about 160m coin. Refines? Not sure what orbs go for now, but for +4 that's another couple mil per piece. HH gear? that costs money or hours a day farming for non-guaranteed drops. PVP? You better have a charm. PVE? Better have dolls in case you die.
Everything costs something, and that's okay. But everything costs so much at this point it's all about cash grind.Bladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
Because those people DON'T make money, they just pass hands. Merchanting does not ADD coins or ANY other items into the world. Consequently, it is a zero-sum game. Consequently, when someone WINS coins by merchanting, somebody else LOSES. b:byeMichael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Sounds a lot like socialism. Since you don't want to listen to the people that actually know how to make money to get it, you expect to have it mostly given to you? Excellent idea.
Merchanting does not produce anything. Whether that be a virtual good or not (merchanting happens IRL too).
Not a bad suggestion BUT it's no fun at all.Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »There should be a new daily quest, talk to an npc wait 30 seconds and receive a million coins. There should be a limit though, you shouldn't be allowed to do this more than once per hour. Then nobody would be poor.
What I propose are either:
1) New daily quests that give coins as reward, instead of exp -- and of course massive amounts, like BH gives massive exp (compared to normal quests)
2) Have a daily quest where you can spend some of your exp or spirit to gain coins. It's like the opposite of Crazy Stones.
The problem is there's just too many dailies that are coin sinks and no coin generators.
^this couldn't have said it better myself.Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »I think the real issue is that you need a LOT of coin to play effectively. Maxing you skills? about 160m coin. Refines? Not sure what orbs go for now, but for +4 that's another couple mil per piece. HH gear? that costs money or hours a day farming for non-guaranteed drops. PVP? You better have a charm. PVE? Better have dolls in case you die.
Everything costs something, and that's okay. But everything costs so much at this point it's all about cash grind.0 -
As someone else pointed out in another thread, information has value. So does time. Merchants provide, save, and expend both.Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Because those people DON'T make money, they just pass hands. Merchanting does not ADD coins or ANY other items into the world. Consequently, it is a zero-sum game. Consequently, when someone WINS coins by merchanting, somebody else LOSES. b:bye
Merchanting does not produce anything. Whether that be a virtual good or not (merchanting happens IRL too).
Also, you should learn about things like the service sector of the economy. Might as well go and read up about things like Banking and Trade while you're at it.
You mean like dumping EXP/SP into genies, and selling the result? Oh wait, that's merchanting, and therefore A Bad Thing.2) Have a daily quest where you can spend some of your exp or spirit to gain coins. It's like the opposite of Crazy Stones.
Uh, no. The problem is that people expect to be hand-fed. If daily quests are costing you money to the point where you can't afford them, the solution is simple. STOP DOING THEM. Also, the only daily quest that's a true coin sink is Crazy Stones. WQ is a source, Attendance is neutral, and BH varies depending on drops and the amount of teleporting you do.The problem is there's just too many dailies that are coin sinks and no coin generators.0 -
While we're at it, I want every mob to drop 3 trillion coins, cause, you know, grinding is soooo hard. I also demand that there be a price freeze, so that we can spend those 3 trillion coins and buy ourselves everything we will ever need, and more.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks0 -
Let me just be able to open the 150 chest of coins that I still have and then we can all be happy (most worthless thing ever) b:victory
Seriously..."grinding" will not make you money (maybe 3rd map in a good hour if not crashed).
Some things that might make you $$:
*Buy low and sell high
*HH (oh yes, still $$ to be made there)
*Farm herbs and mats and sell (hell, if on LC hit me up I will pay 1-2k for certain herbs because I refuse to farm them)
*Do not spend your $$ on worthless **** like fashion if you are so "poor" you cannot do BH's
*Do not do your BH/CS for a day or two
--> too lazy to keep going and too lazy to deal with lazy people who want **** handed to them b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Because those people DON'T make money, they just pass hands. Merchanting does not ADD coins or ANY other items into the world. Consequently, it is a zero-sum game. Consequently, when someone WINS coins by merchanting, somebody else LOSES. b:bye
Merchanting does not produce anything. Whether that be a virtual good or not (merchanting happens IRL too).
Not a bad suggestion BUT it's no fun at all.
What I propose are either:
1) New daily quests that give coins as reward, instead of exp -- and of course massive amounts, like BH gives massive exp (compared to normal quests)
2) Have a daily quest where you can spend some of your exp or spirit to gain coins. It's like the opposite of Crazy Stones.
The problem is there's just too many dailies that are coin sinks and no coin generators.
I suggest reading Solandri's post again. Pumping more coins into the economy stimulates demand and raises prices of goods and services. Thus, the new coin you got from raised drop rates are offset by the higher prices you must pay for goods and services.
And once you start introducing "coin generators" like the ones you mentioned, the economy's going to head into a hyper inflation period where money loses its value. Money is only money when it holds its value. Money only holds value when it's scarce. When it's not a scarce resource, it doesn't serve as a medium of exchange. What you'll end up having is something similar to what happened in post-World War I Germany, where people just dumped their money and reverted back to the barter system. This is also what you observe on private servers with like 99999x drop rates. Coin is so abundant it has no value and people find other means of currency.
Overall, when prices are too high, you need to somehow close that inflationary gap, not feed it more.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Because those people DON'T make money, they just pass hands. Merchanting does not ADD coins or ANY other items into the world. Consequently, it is a zero-sum game. Consequently, when someone WINS coins by merchanting, somebody else LOSES. b:bye
Make money, exchange money, there's hardly a difference when you look at the progression of the game as you level and how it's been designed to work.
All of the most valuable drops, not including TT mats slowly start to taper off once you reach lvl 60. (Actually, with all the latest changes in game, most of those drop and farmable mats are relatively worthless these days), but there was a progression on how you're actually supposed to change your earning habits as you level higher. The only two constants are farming herbs or mining mats. The balance originally in place was quite brilliant if you look at the bigger picture. What has really altered this is the BH and quick leveling as well as not completing all your quests or the grinding you would be doing from one-man-armies, wanteds and justice orders.
The quick-fix addiction to exp is what makes you shell out coin for crazy stones, wine fees for bh, and teleporting to and from these intances to get them done, while taking away your time actually questing and earning a decent keep. Before the 'new game' it was relatively easy to make money at any given level to suit your needs. It doesn't anymore.
Of course, you want your cake and to eat it too, but it's really not going to happen. If it does, it's another giveaway and the same thing will happen as it does now... gold will inflate and prices will compensate and the same thing will happen, most of the players will be struggling for coin and a few will be hoarding it all.
The only real distribution of coin in this game, or an economy is that one person will sell, another will buy and the government will make more money to keep more people satisfied decreasing the relative worth of that coin. Mobs drop more coin = more people with coin = more people buying gold = higher price of gold = higher prices of all items that do not have a set price in-game. Making something easier does not necessarily make it better for you.
Increasing how much a mob will drop is only a temporary fix until the market adjusts. I agree something needs to be done to the balance, but after weeks of 2x drops, it's pretty obvious that it didn't work out all that well.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Keep in mind, though, that I actually play less than 5 hours per week and I'm in no hurry to level.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »thats just the thing, one shouldnt have to give up leveling for money and vice versa. looking at warren, i remember exactly the date: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=157342 he made this thread a little over a year ago.
in said time, ive made 3 characters reach their 89 cults with just a little above average gear/money. he's yet to reach that high, but has a butt ton of money. see whats wrong with this picture?
I also don't do things in the game that I don't enjoy doing, no matter how much XP rewards they offer. For example, I don't enjoy doing BH because it's usually rush-rush-rush with people I don't even know, but meanwhile I'm running around doing the Snake Island Race because it's fun, even though there's virtually no reward.
Merchanting could allow me to level very fast if it was a priority to do so. For example, I've been profiting at least 4 million per day with Tiger Packs, and I were to convert that money to Oracles that's about 3.5 million XP per day. But then I'd have to spend more than 15 minutes playing per day, plus I'd be doing something dull and repetitive, all for the sake of having a higher level that really just isn't that big of a deal to me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I don't think you guys know what I am talking about at all. I'm complaining about the coin sinks. Merchanting is NOT, I repeat, NOT a coin sink, unless you trade gold or use the AH, since there are fees.
If mobs drop 3 trillion coins, I don't know about you... but now everyone can afford their skills by killing 1 mob. Cause you know, there's a thing in this game called money CREATION and money SINKS, both of which, you know, your theory does NOT ADDRESS.
NPCs being one example. Sorry, NPC prices and skill prices and other "sinks" are fixed, they don't change based on how players "value the economy" or whatever.
No, I repeat once more, I am not talking about exchanging money. ANY form of player trade is just that... exchange. Not sure why you continually keep using that as an argument.
There's too many coin sinks, not enough coin generators. How you argument against this by factoring "player trade" into account is beyond me.
And why don't we get to choose between a daily quest like BH that gives us exp and one that gives us coins but no exp? b:question0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »And why don't we get to choose between a daily quest like BH that gives us exp and one that gives us coins but no exp? b:question
Because I really like hearing: "WTB Lunar Insignia 50m coins" instead of "WTB Lunar Insignia 50000m coins" in WC. Yes it would be cool to kill one mob to get all your skills maxed (coin-wise), but that would cause inflation in other prices. And, it would never end.
You can get around 400k coins by grinding an hour at 90. If you'd get 3m, then gold would probably go up to 3m each. It would suck in so many levels, mainly because the money you have generated so far is worthless now.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Skill costs are the one true coin sink, in my opinion, and they're finite. Each character learns their skills once, then it's done. Every other coin sink is either of such a small amount (teleport fees, repairs, etc) as to not matter, or is really a trade with another player.Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »There's too many coin sinks, not enough coin generators. How you argument against this by factoring "player trade" into account is beyond me.
Coin generators, on the other hand, abound. Grinding, quest rewards, Tokens of Best Luck, Oracles...
In other words, I think you've got it exactly backwards. If there were more coin sinks than generators, gold prices would be FALLING not rising.0 -
More drops on grinding won't affect NPC prices like skills levelling , teleports , medium ink , etc . No need to bring capitalists science here0
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Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »NPCs being one example. Sorry, NPC prices and skill prices and other "sinks" are fixed, they don't change based on how players "value the economy" or whatever.
There's too many coin sinks, not enough coin generators. How you argument against this by factoring "player trade" into account is beyond me.
Wow. This is the first time I've ever heard *anyone* say there are too many coin sinks in the game. There aren't enough. That's one of the reasons why gold is at 420-450k right now. If there were very little coin in-game, packs without perfect tokens of best luck wouldn't matter and gold would still be selling for 100k. EDIT: Actually that isn't quite true, Jolly Jones introduced mass amounts of oracles (coin reward from cash shopping) and that's really when inflation started to rise.
Purchasing normal lvl 1-10 skills is a drop in the hat compared to purchasing *most* of your lvl 11 skills.And why don't we get to choose between a daily quest like BH that gives us exp and one that gives us coins but no exp? b:question
DO YOUR NORMAL QUESTS. If you do ALL of your normal quests and grind the rest of the way without touching BH wine fees or by farming the mats for wines yourself, you should have ample coin to purchase MOST of your skills as you level. Your problem shouldn't be coin at 7x it should be an amazing lack of spirit to level them.
Why don't you get a whole lot of coin from BH rewards? Simple, because PWI has flooded the playerbase with overwhelming amounts of coin. Pruchase ZEN buy coin through the Gold-Trader. That is the re-design of the game now.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0
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