Lack of understanding for BM tanks

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

I've got a BH horror story to share with you all... posted here since it involves my BM.
Disclaimer: I rant because I'm bored. If you're bored too, read on... XD

A quick overview of my BM:

Standard 3* 70 armor and quest reward leggings from fb69
Skywarrior Fists w/Beaut Garnet for DPS
Polaxe of the Righteous for AoEs (currently she doesn't have the Str for Calamity Axes)
About 3380 HP unbuffed (which sadly comes with an all-wep build)

She's never had a problem with the BH51 bosses, and the majority of the time she didn't lose aggro at all in the 60's. I usually rely on massive use of double spark + relentless courage for bosses. But obviously, I know she's no barb and most DDs will have to do the standard damage moderation.

Yesterday I wound up in one such situation. I teamed my BM up with my gf's Psychic and, after taking 20mins+ to find a workable squad, eventually ended up with me, her, a cleric, an archer, and two other psychics. (I can already hear the "uh-oh"s coming from the "distrust tideborns for being oracle n00bs" camp XD)

Having just got to 70, and noticing one of the psychics was 77, I felt it necessary to point out that they'd have to damage-moderate. This was glossed over every time I said it (though luckily the 77 left squad and was replaced with a 75 wiz). To their credit, at least they didn't demand I leave in favor of a barb (which I imagine is a pet peeve of many people here).

I think I died... three? Four times? Yeah, at least that.

At least one death happened on the way to Qianji, due to aggro mismanagement on the part of our other DDs. Then #2 occurred at Qianji itself... because not only did our other psychic (71) start skill spamming before I'd even had a chance to gain aggro, the cleric was the next to fall due to heal aggro. Somehow I got res'd in between when I died and when the cleric died... but getting up was a mistake as Qianji came after me a second time even though I didn't attack at all, so that was death #3 (that one was my fault, I guess). The only person to survive that encounter was my gf, having long ago learned to recognize a sinking ship when she saw one. XD

I explained, one more time, how I was not a barb and they'd need to give me time to gain aggro. So round 2 with Qianji began, and actually proved successful as the squad waited till I'd knocked off a solid 20% of his health first (albeit with several comments on the order of "I'm bored"). Actually, our cleric decided he wanted to be lazy and set up BB instead of ironheart... which to my amazement actually kept me alive with my arguably-crappy HP.

We reset the instance and came back for Zimo. No sooner had we killed the metal gatekeeper than our friend the 71 psychic decided the first party in the gate looked "far enough apart" to attack without backup (they weren't). All three mobs chased the psychic by going up the left wall. Attempting to save everyone's behind, I met them on the other side and tried to intercept with my axe, leading to death #4 for me (the cleric probably couldn't react in time, which I don't blame him for).

The rest of the run went smoothly (though the two of us opted to leave after Zimo).

So tl;dr: One overzealous DD + lack of knowledge on how to moderate damage with a BM tank = frustrating BH.

My main is a DD, and my faction leaders are BMs, so for the most part I know how not to get anyone killed as a DD. How do people make it to the 70s without learning this? Some of them, I wonder if they even know that BMs are capable of tanking. My jaw nearly drops every time I hear a DD tell the tank that they intend to go all-out from the first second, and if the tank loses aggro, it's their fault.

Of course, to me the worst part is when it's archers who do it... I feel like I need to apologize for the rest of my class every time it happens. I'm starting to think competent archers (pre-80, anyway) are a dying breed.

So, BM forum, what would you attribute all this facepalm-worthy behavior to? The tideborn expansion? Oracles/Hypers? A contagious idiocy virus spread through WC? :P

[/bored rant]

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Well as soon as I read that you had magic class's in your squad in bh 59 and you were trying to tank with BM...i faced palmed. (Don't worry, I face palm when barbs do the same thing)

You see they are better tanks in the bh. Let the magic class's that use AA armor tank everything. You should just concentrate on crowd control. BH problem solved. I tank that bh with my cleric......

Jhalil - Heavens Tear · April 2010

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well as soon as I read that you had magic class's in your squad in bh 59 and you were trying to tank with BM...i faced palmed. (Don't worry, I face palm when barbs do the same thing)

You see they are better tanks in the bh. Let the magic class's that use AA armor tank everything. You should just concentrate on crowd control. BH problem solved. I tank that bh with my cleric......

+1
Since you're throwing competence and oracle "noobs" and such out there. I'm surprised that as a level 88 and a 7x BM you still haven't figured out that BH59 is best tanked by any arcane class. As for the part where the psychic had aggro'd the mobs and they ran up the wall, if the cleric would have healed the psychic all 3 wouldn't even kill him/her seeing as all they do is magic damage. So in fact when you ran up to them with your axes and got yourself killed, you actually didn't do the right thing, right thing would've been let the magic users kill them off while you pick your nose :P

Joshcja - Sanctuary · April 2010

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

+1
Since you're throwing competence and oracle "noobs" and such out there. I'm surprised that as a level 88 and a 7x BM you still haven't figured out that BH59 is best tanked by any arcane class. As for the part where the psychic had aggro'd the mobs and they ran up the wall, if the cleric would have healed the psychic all 3 wouldn't even kill him/her seeing as all they do is magic damage. So in fact when you ran up to them with your axes and got yourself killed, you actually didn't do the right thing, right thing would've been let the magic users kill them off while you pick your nose :P

thats great and all

sadly not many casters can hold a fisties aggro with a set of real fists and 60 arms...

so if you build right you end up tanking by defaultb:surrender

Kristoph - Lost City · April 2010

You can't really keep agro off of archers/psy's/assassins if you don't get some interval. If you want to tank, you should really get 3 star fists with -0.05 and bracers with -0.05 or -0.10 (if you can afford the latter..). I did fine with that, I kept agro from almost everyone if I double sparked as often as possible and used tangling mire when possible after sparking. If you can't do that then yeah you're not going to be a good tank... just let them tank instead.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Actually I'm well aware that the bosses in 59 can be magic-tanked. XD My memory was a little bad last night, granted... but upon remembering that Zimo does metal and only metal damage, I stepped aside and gave the tanking duties to my gf. :P

Sorry for not putting that in earlier. XD

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · April 2010

I chalked this problem up to the WC, Hyper/Oracles, and normal idioticy found in all human beings.

As for your BH, i'd say you did a pretty well job considering how the other DD's played XD

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

+2

All bosses in there hit pure magic from long range. Oracle noob > you.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · April 2010

Well as soon as I read that you had magic class's in your squad in bh 59 and you were trying to tank with BM...i faced palmed.

Rofl I did the same thing. When he mentioned ther were psys & even a wiz came in squad... lol

Yulk - Heavens Tear · April 2010

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well as soon as I read that you had magic class's in your squad in bh 59 and you were trying to tank with BM...i faced palmed. (Don't worry, I face palm when barbs do the same thing)

You see they are better tanks in the bh. Let the magic class's that use AA armor tank everything. You should just concentrate on crowd control. BH problem solved. I tank that bh with my cleric......

+1

Holy shiznit! I always do that b:victory . Crowd controlling is the best tactic ever. I observe and control the field, saves me nicely. I'd recomend this for all payers b:victory

_GrimStorm_ - Dreamweaver · April 2010

Good job keeping your cool cuz I would of been freaking out.

I'm a sword bm currently lvl 78 and when I first started doing that bh it was very hard tanking. Kept loosing aggro and let's not forget sometimes clerics reaction time after qianji started to pound on me would sometimes cause me to die.

I have been playing a lot smarter now. I don't depend on cleric right away or when health is getting low. I been working very hard on my genie and its been saving my butt in that bh so many times. (2nd wind, tree of protection, true emptiness (magic shield is awesome)). Normally I don't like being tank just because of the repair bill but lately I been tanking because I'm the one taking and holding aggro. Yesterday for example the squad had a 77 archer, 79 herc veno, 78 herc veno, 78 calamity axe bm, and 2 clerics. Normally I would let the axe bm tank because of the repair bill like I said and I would control myself to make sure i don't take aggro but for some reason he kept on dying so I had to step up to the plate. I did that bh 2 times with the same squad and tanked every boss. On a few moments I had to fire up tree of protection because archer would aggro everything and I needed to save the clerics. Having that extra long range attack is great when you need to call a mob that is heading straight for the cleric or when the cleric is on the run lol.

I found it the having a squad full of psys and wizzies is a hell of a lot harder to keep the mobs. Attention. Just the other day it was 1 cleric, me and all psys lol. And I did ended up tanking also because they psys and cleric were not working out well together. For some reason the 79 psy kept dying. But then again why walk up right need to a mob so they could get hit physical lol anyway just wanted to share my little stories too. You being a fist bm shouldnt be to hard to hold aggro, fist and sword bms do it a lot better than axe bms I notice.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · April 2010

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats great and all

sadly not many casters can hold a fisties aggro with a set of real fists and 60 arms...

so if you build right you end up tanking by defaultb:surrender

Rubbish.

Proven in this case by the fact there was a good deal of agro management problems. 7x fist BM's are not agro holders, unless they have a damn good set of fists and blood moon bracers as you said, which 95% of 7x fist bm's don't. Did you even read the whole story? OP is using 3* and quest rewards.

I see you hit 80, but you're still arrogant and blindly believe rolling a fist BM automatically makes you god in every way. =/

NO fist bm tanks bh59 either. Those bosses can whack a BM pretty damn hard, but an arcane is ridiculously easy to heal. Fist BM simply doesn't spark too much, boss takes 10 seconds longer, no deaths at all.

Telarith - Sanctuary · April 2010

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rubbish.

Proven in this case by the fact there was a good deal of agro management problems. 7x fist BM's are not agro holders, unless they have a damn good set of fists and blood moon bracers as you said, which 95% of 7x fist bm's don't. Did you even read the whole story? OP is using 3* and quest rewards.

I see you hit 80, but you're still arrogant and blindly believe rolling a fist BM automatically makes you god in every way. =/

NO fist bm tanks bh59 either. Those bosses can whack a BM pretty damn hard, but an arcane is ridiculously easy to heal. Fist BM simply doesn't spark too much, boss takes 10 seconds longer, no deaths at all.

How is it arrogant? As for BMs not tanking BH59, the first FB59 done on server was tanked by a 62 BM with a lvl 60 cleric because no barb was high enough lvl. And the wizzie got smashed flat when they tried to tank the water mob even with water shield up, not enough health.

It doesn't matter if a arcane supposedly can tank it better, everyone has out-leveled the FB during a BH anyways. All that matters when the tank can survive spikes is one thing: is the healing covering the damage received. Any other metric applied is just inane.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · April 2010

I agree that it's not good idea to let the HA class tank. However, I know that most AA class players don't want to tank. I have asked many times in BH59 to let someone else than the barb to tank, but it's always the barb that tanks. Just because others hate tanking anything.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

How is it arrogant? As for BMs not tanking BH59, the first FB59 done on server was tanked by a 62 BM with a lvl 60 cleric because no barb was high enough lvl. And the wizzie got smashed flat when they tried to tank the water mob even with water shield up, not enough health.

It doesn't matter if a arcane supposedly can tank it better, everyone has out-leveled the FB during a BH anyways. All that matters when the tank can survive spikes is one thing: is the healing covering the damage received. Any other metric applied is just inane.

Actually a couple things matter. Yes the healing (which is affected by resistances/HP) woot...aggro holding/dps(you know this is what the thread is kinda about).

Doesn't matter who first tanked what where. That is totally irrelevant. What matters is whats going on in the party at the moment. The group had better tanks in this instance.

We will say for sake of argument you meet the first requirement. You can defeat the boss with the cleric healing...but if you can't hold aggro to someone else who can tank...then you're the wrong tank for the situation. It's as simple as that.

Now if it was another boss/instance/mobs and the BM was tank because they had to be (phys stuff) then it was the failure of the DD's; not controlling their DPS.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · April 2010

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rubbish.

Proven in this case by the fact there was a good deal of agro management problems. 7x fist BM's are not agro holders, unless they have a damn good set of fists and blood moon bracers as you said, which 95% of 7x fist bm's don't. Did you even read the whole story? OP is using 3* and quest rewards.

I see you hit 80, but you're still arrogant and blindly believe rolling a fist BM automatically makes you god in every way. =/

NO fist bm tanks bh59 either. Those bosses can whack a BM pretty damn hard, but an arcane is ridiculously easy to heal. Fist BM simply doesn't spark too much, boss takes 10 seconds longer, no deaths at all.

yes and they also say a lvl 80 fist bm cant tank 2-2 or pole or gamma hell i got weird looks when i said i could tank stygian lol much less the other 3 bosses in 79 (all really easy)

ya i could do the entireity of fb/fb 59 self buffed with wizzie heals and without the use of charms or hp food

most of my gear then was 3*

every nub fister i talk to asks about gear n i tell em to have DQ bracers aat 60 and every....single...one has saved up enough to get them (with a few finding lucky ah 3*'s)

decent + maq def ornaments the bosses spells are kinda sad hit 600-800 the autoattack hits around the same the DOT on drake can get up to about a K before flash purifies but its all pretty dam easy

but to get back on topic yes the bm here failed on 3 counts

1: did not get any interval
2:had 3k hp at 70
3:tried to tank things he couldent handle and got pissy with the people who could actualy manage

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Actually the fist was TT70. :P

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

1: did not get any interval
2:had 3k hp at 70

It's worth noting that this is an alt and I don't play her as seriously as my main. -_- Also: All-wep builds aren't built for serious tanking. I'm competent at it, but I know I'm not gonna tank Pole anytime soon, and I'm fine with that.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

3:tried to tank things he couldent handle and got pissy with the people who could actualy manage

Did... you even read my post? o.O I was totally capable of handling Qianji. Hell, I did it with BB instead of Ironheart. The near-wipe happened because the psychic decided to pull a Leroy and the cleric started healing after I had pulled, but before I had attacked.

I'm not saying a caster wouldn't have done it more competently, and that was an error in my memory, I'm not denying that. But I wish people would focus more on the point of this thread, which was:

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

i got weird looks when i said i could tank stygian lol

This kind of thing is why I made the rant in the first place. When a BM tanks, he/she gets stupid looks, skepticism, and misunderstanding from the DDs.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually the fist was TT70. :P
When a BM tanks, he/she gets stupid looks, skepticism, and misunderstanding from the DDs.

Not at higher levels. People are learning. When squads ask, "who is going to tank?" its not surprising to hear from the Barb, "The BM will do it. I'll just DD." b:victory

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's worth noting that this is an alt and I don't play her as seriously as my main. -_- Also: All-wep builds aren't built for serious tanking. I'm competent at it, but I know I'm not gonna tank Pole anytime soon, and I'm fine with that.

yea I doubt a non-oracle pro like you will ever tank pole anyway.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Did... you even read my post? o.O I was totally capable of handling Qianji. Hell, I did it with BB instead of Ironheart.

Any other class would do easily with any healing spell except assassins.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · April 2010

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yea I doubt a non-oracle pro like you will ever tank pole anyway.

XD

I can't tell if that was trolling or not. Well-played, sir. :P I lol'd at "oracle pro."

Kristoph - Lost City · April 2010

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rubbish.

Proven in this case by the fact there was a good deal of agro management problems. 7x fist BM's are not agro holders, unless they have a damn good set of fists and blood moon bracers as you said, which 95% of 7x fist bm's don't. Did you even read the whole story? OP is using 3* and quest rewards.

I see you hit 80, but you're still arrogant and blindly believe rolling a fist BM automatically makes you god in every way. =/

NO fist bm tanks bh59 either. Those bosses can whack a BM pretty damn hard, but an arcane is ridiculously easy to heal. Fist BM simply doesn't spark too much, boss takes 10 seconds longer, no deaths at all.

It's hardly arrogant. On my fist BM I asked barbs to let me tank simply so agro wouldn't bounce around. I kept agro off of AT LEAST 9/10 DDs. BH59, 69 and 79... doesn't matter, I've tanked every boss in all of them with a single cleric, though I'd only do polearm with a certain cleric I trust since I only have 5k HP. And even then, if I have two clerics it's easy.

You apparently have no idea that a fist BM can out-DD magic classes even at lower levels if you have a decent amount of interval. Only time you'll lose agro is at the start, you need to be able to get a double spark or two in before anyone else can double spark safely. But other than that... you're going to **** every barb's agro if you want to.

Oh and since my BM hit 85 and got +5 frost fists there's been no contest, I have to be careful even if I don't spark, since I rather let barbs tank nob/pole. But I've tanked most of my own BHs due to lack of barbs around looking for a party.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · April 2010

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

It's hardly arrogant. On my fist BM I asked barbs to let me tank simply so agro wouldn't bounce around. I kept agro off of AT LEAST 9/10 DDs. BH59, 69 and 79... doesn't matter, I've tanked every boss in all of them with a single cleric, though I'd only do polearm with a certain cleric I trust since I only have 5k HP. And even then, if I have two clerics it's easy.

You apparently have no idea that a fist BM can out-DD magic classes even at lower levels if you have a decent amount of interval. Only time you'll lose agro is at the start, you need to be able to get a double spark or two in before anyone else can double spark safely. But other than that... you're going to **** every barb's agro if you want to.

Oh and since my BM hit 85 and got +5 frost fists there's been no contest, I have to be careful even if I don't spark, since I rather let barbs tank nob/pole. But I've tanked most of my own BHs due to lack of barbs around looking for a party.

for once i 100% agree with ya....b:chuckle

RavenRonien - Raging Tide · May 2010

i atribute this to archanes not know they can tank ._.

u can't believe how many times i've sugested a archane tank and i get blank stares or a "b:laugh" because they think im joking.....

they go "but i have 1.6k hp how can i tank?" then i say "cause u'll take like what.... 400 dmg every 1.4 seconds or so?" and they go YEAH AND ILL DIE!!!!

im sorry but if a cleric can't heal 400hp per second i don't know what they are doing.... IH stacks are plenty effective

so i end up having to tank ofits which ends in disaster because i can't get close enough for his physical atacks to start. (i have 4k hp as a fist BM)

the rest i have no problems with, darkflash purifies me from the burns so i don't have to worry about clerics who dont' know to purify, and aparetnly DD's in raging tide know to back off on the DD's. i have -0.05 intervals, with HW (or red bubble for all u wierd ppl who wont call it by its name) or reletnless i have 2 atackes per second, with a spark ill hit about 7k per second (aprox 3.5k each hit) and i hold agro pretty well, hell i stole it from a barb once xD (i crit ALOT that time xD) so its been a great ride for me, but yeah, ofits is my only problem in 59

Kaste - Sanctuary · May 2010

Oh wow i remember that bh

It was so fun to do compared to boring wined 69/79 i got to do atm.

Well people saying that a HA using BM is not a good choice to tank it, i see some reasons why the answer should be: BM tanks! lol ^^

1. BM has (or should have) more hp then any other member of the party.
Even a 4 path BM should have some points in vit, some Hp stones in armor and mabye some refines on it.

2. BM has stream strike.
Even if people may say that this skill is useless, i skilled it to a medium lvl and in the first minute i spammed it to the boss' face untill i had no chi left. i do not know if it actually helped or not, but i never had problems tanking like this, i mean i do actually have real agro, and not dmg-agro as usual for bms.

3. BM has magical marrow.
Magic marrow lvl 3~4 is really useful to tank these bosses in there. Even if some attack physical sometimes, your phys def is high enough even with marrow on, you have cleric's and your own buff

As for mobs in there, i always have a spare zeal genie in my inventory, just when no venomancer around. You just pull the magic/archer/whatever mob that would run away, stun it with roar or drake's bash and the whole party just hits it to almost instant death. Afterwards BM walks into the now melee only group and gets agro by doing some random aoes, rest of the ppl wait. After some skills, BM uses Roar and rest of the party attacks too. When you do the BH some times you will recognize the melee mobs and you will be able to lure the right ones.

You may say **** u kas, but as people already mentioned, let the BM just tank for a min. It will save the parties life 100%.

When i was doing that BH it was kind of obvious that i would be tank if no barb was around, i was kind of OP in these lvls, I had around 5k hp unbuffed. Usually i joined a BH party in midde arch. When the party was full and still no barb around, i left the party for a minute to get barb buffs for myself. I was tanking with around 7k hp+.

I am sorry for writing so much, lol just pointing out my oppinion.

daikaz · May 2010

BMs get aggro by sheer damage, but that doesn't mean it's a bad method at all! i've also been able to steal aggro from barbarians that way, moreover a BM's insignia skill, the heaven's flame, causes a pretty large amount of hate towards the BM, why? decent to awesome damage (cala effect + crit) and inflincts the curse effect, debuffs also **** off the boss, moreover on those 6 seconds you can put MORE damage on the boss, making it a great choice for aggro keeping

I disagree on stream strike being an useful move, why? the amount of aggro it causes is neglectible considering the chi it spends, you're better off spamming sparks or HF instead of wasting your chi, it also hurts barely more than a regular hit, so not too good to be used to get damage aggro either, just get alpha male on a genie and use it as an opening move, that will lock aggro on you, specially if you like to start out strong like me (spark, cyclone heel, HF, at least till i hit 89 and can use dragon bane + triple spark)

But yes i agree with everyone else, let the arcane classes tank BH59, they will take 25% the damage you will take

Kaste - Sanctuary · May 2010

daikaz wrote: »

BMs get aggro by sheer damage, but that doesn't mean it's a bad method at all!

They do indeed, but not in BH59. In this level range you do not have any -int gears (except mabye blood moon bracers) and your damage will just be enough to steal agro from barb sometimes (which he will change quick by resetting agro -> roar) or tank the boss for a while. Every Archer or Psychic is going to outdamage you before you do not reach a certain level. (Well except you are so ambitious to waste a ton of pots / mp charm to keep spamming your skills like hell in order to deal a good amout of damage even though i think it is just a bh man, not a fight for your existence xD)

daikaz wrote: »

just get alpha male on a genie and use it as an opening move, that will lock aggro on you,

Good point, Alpha male is useful to have anyway, just in case something goes wrong in party^^. But still i have to say that most BMs are not going to need it in this level range. It may be useful to tank BHs, but it is easily done without it. Better get some more important skills first.

Kristoph - Lost City · May 2010

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

They do indeed, but not in BH59. In this level range you do not have any -int gears (except mabye blood moon bracers) and your damage will just be enough to steal agro from barb sometimes (which he will change quick by resetting agro -> roar) or tank the boss for a while. Every Archer or Psychic is going to outdamage you before you do not reach a certain level. (Well except you are so ambitious to waste a ton of pots / mp charm to keep spamming your skills like hell in order to deal a good amout of damage even though i think it is just a bh man, not a fight for your existence xD)

You really don't know anything, do you?

- Stream Strike is garbage
- Using Magic Marrow on bosses is stupid
- Yes, you do **** agro in BH59 thanks to your damage output, it's easy to get interval even then. Lv60 LA ones, random lv64 ones, random 63/73 fists with interval
- I ***** agro off of barbs with Blood Moon bracers + 3 star Lv73 fists with -0.05 interval and +2 w/ 2 flawless patk, I was able to steal agro off of pretty much every barb if I started DDing from the start
- There's been no psy that took agro off of me ever
- Skill spamming is not a good way to deal damage you idiot

Kaste - Sanctuary · May 2010

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

You really don't know anything, do you?

- Stream Strike is garbage
- Using Magic Marrow on bosses is stupid
- Yes, you do **** agro in BH59 thanks to your damage output, it's easy to get interval even then. Lv60 LA ones, random lv64 ones, random 63/73 fists with interval
- I ***** agro off of barbs with Blood Moon bracers + 3 star Lv73 fists with -0.05 interval and +2 w/ 2 flawless patk, I was able to steal agro off of pretty much every barb if I started DDing from the start
- There's been no psy that took agro off of me ever
- Skill spamming is not a good way to deal damage you idiot

Wow you are kind of getting personal -.-

-Well basically i typed that i do not know if stream strike does work or not.
-Again low level mag marrow is not so bad at bosses.
-Not everyone has luck/money/whatever to get -int gear around this lvl range.
-I do not think that feeling good about take barb agro is something you should be pround of.
-I have seen it, see your gear, see mine? I do not think that every bm has your -int gear. thigs i wrote were meant in general. Better be safe then lucky.
-If you are pure axe for example (i have seen it) i want to see you keep agro by autohitting.

Again I wrote things IN GENERAL, not exeptions or special cases. It my experience, it may be right, it may be wrong -.- correct me, but dont get personal. b:surrender

Kokki - Harshlands · May 2010

up till my current level ( 78 ) i never had ANY barb in my BH squad. I never had a horror BH unless the people just really are to fail to comprehend their class :P

I'm betting that i can even tank BH69 easy as long as the cleric doesn't lag and know what to do. At 80 i will have about 5.5K hp unbuffed, and i can always ask for a barb buff before going into squad to tank pole, that would set me to over 7K hp which is enough to tank pole easy.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · May 2010

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. BM has stream strike.
Even if people may say that this skill is useless, i skilled it to a medium lvl and in the first minute i spammed it to the boss' face untill i had no chi left. i do not know if it actually helped or not, but i never had problems tanking like this, i mean i do actually have real agro, and not dmg-agro as usual for bms.

Stream Strike above 4x-5x IS useless and it's a horrible waste of chi.

Kristoph - Lost City · May 2010

Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Well basically i typed that i do not know if stream strike does work or not.
-Again low level mag marrow is not so bad at bosses.
-Not everyone has luck/money/whatever to get -int gear around this lvl range.
-I do not think that feeling good about take barb agro is something you should be pround of.
-I have seen it, see your gear, see mine? I do not think that every bm has your -int gear. thigs i wrote were meant in general. Better be safe then lucky.
-If you are pure axe for example (i have seen it) i want to see you keep agro by autohitting.

- Stream strike is awful whether it works or not, you'd do a lot more damage if you never used the skill and you'd be able to double spark
- Marrow at bosses is a waste unless the boss is casting magic nonstop. You can cancel the first magic attack with shadowless, and afterwards the cleric should easily be able to heal you enough
- Fists? 250-750k. Bracers? 50-300k for 0.05. You don't have 1m?
- Isn't anything to be proud of, it simply happens when you do the most damage you're able to do
- Then that's their problem, working towards interval gear isn't expensive and is completely worth it
- Pure axe BMs are idiots

Lack of understanding for BM tanks

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