Sins in FC

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2010

ok so im gettin really sick of being unwelcome in FC because 1) i cant sun bishops 2)i dont have dragons, or 3) i dont have a continuous AOE. if youre one of those people hat dont like taking sins with you im about to shoot you the %@&# down.

lets start with 1). WE CAN STUN BISHOPS! when a BM does it he pops anti stun and rushes in. and if the party isnt smart enough to stay a ways back they end up with immobilize while the BM gets *****. when a sin does it i can take my time walk up stealthed, throw down my spark (or even get stacked by a clerics heal if they want) and hit em with a head hunt. this way the bishop doesnt even have a chance to throw down the immobilize. follow that with tackling slash followed with throat cut followed with rising dragon strike followed with tele stun well....ive never made it that far with out the bishop dieing first.

2) yeah i dont have dragons. but sub sea isnt that far off. it amps for 30% for about 3 times longer then dragons. (and dont say dragons is 6 seconds the description is wrong anyone thats ever used it will tell you that) so if you are in squad with a wiz or archer their continuous AOE with completely **** the pull before sub sea strike is over. oh and did i mention the fact that im oozing chi out of every poor in my body and can easily cast it every 30 seconds?

3) take your continuous AOE and shove it where the sun dont shine. we deal MASSIVE spike damage. hes a screenie of the exp room pull. i have my chill of the deep on and i used sub sea and earthen rift on top of my triple spark. my buddy used tangleing myer and i threw a bramble rage on top of that. its to bad the BM came in late with dragons.

and 4) i can slow the bosses channeling by 50%. thats to much to ignore. a good fc squad has a herc veno tank all but 2 or 3 of the bosses. but if you didnt have a the herc the barb would be in for one nasty repair bill with out the slower attack rates.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/thisux/fcccw.jpg

im not exactly sure but im pretty sure the below screenie is my last of 3 hits (earthen rift) while dragons did infact hit. but his dragons is only lvl 6.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/thisux/drrf.jpg

so with that being said. and the fact that the only have 110k max HP. and that have 3 skills i hit them with that all did about the same damage. i can just about take down every mobs health to well below half all on my own. sinse i have a squad with me its not hard to finish off that pull.

i run FCs all the time with bourn (another high lvl sin) and some times even with 3 sins and its more then enough DD to take down any pull in FC. i realize not every sin in FC has a triple spark so that makes it a bit different but even with double spark they should be dealing their fair share of damage. and if youre still kinda iffy about taking sins to FC with you ask them what lvl their sub sea strike, earthen rift, and chill of the deep (if they are low lvl, a high lvl sin can easily do the whole instance with out ever useing chill) are. and if they say 1 or 2 well they are a fail **** sin anyways. they should be at least lvl 7. mine are 10(some of the first skills i maxed after stealths ofcourse)

SINS PWN IN FC!

BluntTrauma - Harshlands · April 2010

damn rights. sins ARE a good choice in FC, and teamed with a BM they are even better. i do FC all the time with RADD_RATT, Bourn, Martir, and ludvic. ludvic is by far the best clerric i have seen, Martir is a pro bm, and RATT and Bourn are two very PRO sins. i would rather take ratt and bourn before any combination of wizards, bms, or archers any day.

dalanao · April 2010

Word on everything b:victory

Heleison - Harshlands · April 2010

Did you just make a thread where everyone agreed?????

Okeano - Harshlands · April 2010

WTB> FC squad, NAO!

Joshcja - Sanctuary · April 2010

bm skill description for HF says its a fire DOT

at lvl 10 it does last 6 seconds

and sins lack the shiny buff bm's have

also you do ony ahve 2 aoes on a 15 sec CD

and yes sin debuff lasts longer but HF+mire+blade tempest+ w/e everyone else is doing = group dead in less than 6 seconds

sins lack roar

would take sins over archers any day

say their just about as good as wizzies and psys due to spike + BP

are thay ever gonnan take the veno/bm/cleric spots....not without a lot of CSing (barbs are optional for FCC but they are nice to have)

just some thoughs

Trawne - Lost City · April 2010

pretty much all correct. i have to disagree on the BM dragon not lasting 6 seconds though. i've cast mountain seize after a BM dragons and it still gets in (5 second channeling time)

i'd love to do a FC run with: Barb. EP, Sin, Sin, BM, Wiz

you could take a sin for a veno to have herc tank most bosses...but my sin has stole hate from hercs on 150 bosses before b:surrender

you could keep everything amped and sin DPS on bosses would be crazy. you don't want EA for sharptooth since that reduces EXP from the boss anyway b:chuckle

this does require the sins to know how to play their class. i still run into many that have no idea what they are doing b:lipcurl

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2010

Heleison - Harshlands wrote: »

Did you just make a thread where everyone agreed?????

no i get denied all the time from people worldchatting for DDs in FC. i say im a sin and they ohhh ummm yeah....sqauds full. the WC for an archer 2 minutes later. i got pissed enough to make a topic about it.

edit: oh i figured out why everyone agrees. its because i posted this in the sin section. if it was in the general section there would be tons of haters

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2010

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

pretty much all correct. i have to disagree on the BM dragon not lasting 6 seconds though. i've cast mountain seize after a BM dragons and it still gets in (5 second channeling time)

i'd love to do a FC run with: Barb. EP, Sin, Sin, BM, Wiz

you could take a sin for a veno to have herc tank most bosses...but my sin has stole hate from hercs on 150 bosses before b:surrender

you could keep everything amped and sin DPS on bosses would be crazy. you don't want EA for sharptooth since that reduces EXP from the boss anyway b:chuckle

this does require the sins to know how to play their class. i still run into many that have no idea what they are doing b:lipcurl

hmm maybe its becasue the BMs ive been gamin with dont have their dragons maxed. every time ive seen it used it lasts about 3 seconds tops

MagicHamsta - Lost City · April 2010

RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »

no i get denied all the time from people worldchatting for DDs in FC. i say im a sin and they ohhh ummm yeah....sqauds full. the WC for an archer 2 minutes later. i got pissed enough to make a topic about it.

edit: oh i figured out why everyone agrees. its because i posted this in the sin section. if it was in the general section there would be tons of haters

ehh...
guess they really really reaaaallyyy wanted STA instead of a sin
b:surrender

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

ehh...
guess they really really reaaaallyyy wanted STA instead of a sin
b:surrender

STA is fail in FC. it nurfs exp by 16%

cwallen · April 2010

OK FOR ONE ME AND RADD_RATT PWN IN FCb:victory

2 WE PWN IN FC

OHYEA AND 3 WE PWN IN FC

b:bye NUFF SAID NYUGGAS

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2010

.........nice post....bourn

Evict - Heavens Tear · April 2010

When our 20 second 20% Bloodpaint comes, Sins will be wanted no doubt.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Rofl I don't seem to have large issues here but I do have a saved FF via alt acc and lap top for evading morons in general.

I take an archer, cleric, and bm with me and we do it all - the curse boss if bm isn't on. Fairly simple, my gear and wep are **** and I can tank all the bosses if necessary which does take over the herc spot though the lack of repairs from pet tank is very nice.

Did the Super Mega Howling Whirling Slash tard today w/o heals to see if it was possible (totally) but he reams ya on exp lol so I don't advise it.

Evict - Heavens Tear · April 2010

You need to bring me on an FF run one day Sneakret. b:laugh

Bulldowzah - Dreamweaver · April 2010

never had probs with sin in fc squad..
for a squad i want

tank (wich is me)
cleric
BM
veno
sin or archer
and last, another bm or wizz or psych

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · April 2010

As a bm with a sin alt, I would definitely have to agree with every point you made, sins, arguably outshine us bms in every job we have in fc.

As the OP mentioned there chi gain, is far far faster then that of bm's, sure sins, may not have the phys def buff that bm's have but there bloodsuck really pwns.

Not to mention that not even bm's have the ability to constantly fire off aoe's.

The only true advantage to having a bm in squad instead of a sin, is due to the simple fact that bm's have HA, which is good for tanking, and alpha male, though sins, could easily do alpha male too without dying too much in fc.

This could easily be debated, but sin's do seem to have the edge over bm's in fc's, especially if the sin knows what they are doing/should do.

Evict - Heavens Tear · April 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a bm with a sin alt, I would definitely have to agree with every point you made, sins, arguably outshine us bms in every job we have in fc.

As the OP mentioned there chi gain, is far far faster then that of bm's, sure sins, may not have the phys def buff that bm's have but there bloodsuck really pwns.

Not to mention that not even bm's have the ability to constantly fire off aoe's.

The only true advantage to having a bm in squad instead of a sin, is due to the simple fact that bm's have HA, which is good for tanking, and alpha male, though sins, could easily do alpha male too without dying too much in fc.

This could easily be debated, but sin's do seem to have the edge over bm's in fc's, especially if the sin knows what they are doing/should do.

When Sins get an aoe stun and a skill that causes 100% more dmg, they will be more useful than BMs. Until then, Sins are only on par with Archer/Wizard as a DD fill.

Trawne - Lost City · April 2010

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When Sins get an aoe stun and a skill that causes 100% more dmg, they will be more useful than BMs. Until then, Sins are only on par with Archer/Wizard as a DD fill.

no where in frost do you need an AOE stun, and 30% more damage for 2 seconds longer that's easily spammed every 30 seconds while still doing crazy damage and 2 sparking all the time is much better than a BM. the only reason to take a BM over a sin is if you think the barb is going to die, in which you really should just get a better barb instead b:chuckle

wiz, barb, ep +3

every FC has that. the +3 can be anything

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide · May 2010

Ooops sry OP , you got your OP pvp class , but as for PVE stuff like fc other classes own ya .

The mobs die instantly with HF + 2 lvl 8x wiz 59 ults and if that ain't enough a BR will finish the job but it usually is . Don't need your subsea or anything if the mobs die instantly just from that .

Here I'll say it again , in fc : WIZ > SIN

b:bye

Asheera - Raging Tide · May 2010

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ooops sry OP , you got your OP pvp class , but as for PVE stuff like fc other classes own ya .

The mobs die instantly with HF + 2 lvl 8x wiz 59 ults and if that ain't enough a BR will finish the job but it usually is . Don't need your subsea or anything if the mobs die instantly just from that .

Here I'll say it again , in fc : WIZ > SIN

b:bye

Depends on power of sins.

If they are high level/good geared enough, and there are no problems with pulls (they die instantly when sins spike AoE which isn't hard considering OP's post said he deals 50% of mob's HP alone), then sins are better. Because no problems at pulls, better DPS at bosses, and bloodpaint.

But I agree weaker sins aren't that useful there.

Azzazin - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Welp, I dunno about you guys, but my favorite squad makeup looks like this:

1 barb
1 cleric
2 bms
2 sins

Try it someday... on the waves, 2 hf + 2 subsea = wtfpwned everything. A good sin finishes off the previous wave of mobs with rising dragon/tackling slash/something to get chi to full again. Then as barb pulls the mobs in, triple spark > inner harmony/rising dragon > subsea (the amp) and then earthen rift. Then recover chi again with rising dragon/tackling slash before the next wave.

Now I don't know a whole lot about wiz ultis, but I'm pretty sure that my 2 triple sparked aoes are gonna compare preeetty well to a wiz 2 spark skills, which are unsparked, I take it.

Then, once waves are over, the bosses... its not even a contest. Triple spark-spam on bosses with 2 bms coordinating hf, add in tangling mire, barb devour, extreme poison... I have literally seen 800k hp disappear in under 15s with a group that times everything just right. Can wiz put out this kind of dps? I think not. Well maybe with a super-wtfpwned +10 wep or something... hell, not going to make too many assumptions. Haven't seen any evidence of this though.

So? Yes, sins can do very OK in FC. Rather, though, than comparing sins to BMS... compare the COMBINATION of bms + sin to any other combination you would care to choose.

Azzazin

Trawne - Lost City · May 2010

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Depends on power of sins.

If they are high level/good geared enough, and there are no problems with pulls (they die instantly when sins spike AoE which isn't hard considering OP's post said he deals 50% of mob's HP alone), then sins are better. Because no problems at pulls, better DPS at bosses, and bloodpaint.

But I agree weaker sins aren't that useful there.

this. my sin drops groups of mobs pretty easily, especially now that he's 89. triple as barb runs in. inner harmony > subsea strike > earthen rift. top it off with a bramble rage and the mobs are almost dead. usually an archer close range aoe push back kills them if they are still alive. no need for zhen.

BIaze_ - Heavens Tear · May 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a bm with a sin alt, I would definitely have to agree with every point you made, sins, arguably outshine us bms in every job we have in fc. uhhh.... what? there better aoers? better stunners? better ampers? better than us at taking more hits? what are you arcane bm with no skills lvled/learned or what?

As the OP mentioned there chi gain, is far far faster then that of bm's, sure sins, may not have the phys def buff that bm's have but there bloodsuck really pwns.Get some fists and some - int gear and cloud eruption on your genie, theres your fast chi gain.

Not to mention that not even bm's have the ability to constantly fire off aoe's. lol what? BMs can constant aoe you just have to get the right timeing and combo in. if anything your have a 1 second gap between aoe combos.

The only true advantage to having a bm in squad instead of a sin, is due to the simple fact that bm's have HA, which is good for tanking, and alpha male, though sins, could easily do alpha male too without dying too much in fc. 1. a good bm dosnt need alpha male. 2. BMs with GX axes (which most bms these days have) can and will out-damage a sin while aoeing mobs. my +5 GX axes have hit 112k on a TT 3-1 mob with only HF debuff and i hit 70k+ wile aoeing FC mobs with highland cleave most of the time and then you have 2 & 1/2 more aoes to follow up with axes alone for even more damage

This could easily be debated, but sin's do seem to have the edge over bm's in fc's, especially if the sin knows what they are doing/should do.Sins can never replace a BM in FC, BMs ability to crowd control and do massive aoe damage is just too great and needed 100% in FC. as you said a BM that knows what hes doing > anything.

lay off them oracles and hyper exp and learn your class.
answers are in bold.

now to everyone else, dont get me wrong sins are great to have in FC, there buff comes in handy for BMs alot, each aoe fills hp back up and the bm will never need a cleric to heal him wile aoeing, therefore letting the cleric watch other DDs and barbs hp. sins ability to sneak behind mobs and lure them from 1 way wile barb gets the other way also makes FCs go alot faster. there ability to stack there amp with HF makes mobs drop in a matter of a second. A BM + sin fist/dagger combo makes bosses drop fast with both classes being able to amp every 30 seconds or both demon sparking all the time + sin buff will be healing them fast from the aoes the bosses do, leaving cleric to just take care of barb and ranged DDs if the barb can keep aggro.

now if we take away a bm from all this your left with (just a quick 4 points)
1. no one to protect cleric from massive lures.
2. alot slower aoe damage making runs alot longer.
3. no HF making bosses take alot longer + no massive DD damage from fist bms.
4. - 60% phys defence atleast from having no bm buff leaving everyone alot more squishy and party wipes alot when coming to the phys mobs area.

so there you go, no a sin cant and wont ever be able to replace a bm but a sin is alot more usefull to have rather than 2 archers or 2 wizzards (no offence to you ballerina`s and old men aka archer and wizzard)

rest of you noobs who oracled and lvled up the easy way these days, feel free to flame/QQ/do what ever you want. dosnt really bother me.

b:bye

Trawne - Lost City · May 2010

BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lay off them oracles and hyper exp and learn your class.
answers are in bold.

now to everyone else, dont get me wrong sins are great to have in FC, there buff comes in handy for BMs alot, each aoe fills hp back up and the bm will never need a cleric to heal him wile aoeing, therefore letting the cleric watch other DDs and barbs hp. sins ability to sneak behind mobs and lure them from 1 way wile barb gets the other way also makes FCs go alot faster. there ability to stack there amp with HF makes mobs drop in a matter of a second. A BM + sin fist/dagger combo makes bosses drop fast with both classes being able to amp every 30 seconds or both demon sparking all the time + sin buff will be healing them fast from the aoes the bosses do, leaving cleric to just take care of barb and ranged DDs if the barb can keep aggro.

now if we take away a bm from all this your left with (just a quick 4 points)
1. no one to protect cleric from massive lures.
2. alot slower aoe damage making runs alot longer.
3. no HF making bosses take alot longer + no massive DD damage from fist bms.
4. - 60% phys defence atleast from having no bm buff leaving everyone alot more squishy and party wipes alot when coming to the phys mobs area.

so there you go, no a sin cant and wont ever be able to replace a bm but a sin is alot more usefull to have rather than 2 archers or 2 wizzards (no offence to you ballerina`s and old men aka archer and wizzard)

rest of you noobs who oracled and lvled up the easy way these days, feel free to flame/QQ/do what ever you want. dosnt really bother me.

b:bye

1) sin can protect the party just as well as the BM
2) agreed aoe damage lower but doesnt really make the run that much longer.
3) true
4) true

2 sins and a BM make an amazing team in frost too. or even 2 bm's 1 sin. no need for an archer or wizard with that. HF + subsea + their other AOE's take out any group of mobs in frost.

in short, sin + BM + barb + cleric + sin/bm + expendable class= new frost run. who needs archers and wizards? b:surrender

Andromache - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Fastest run i have ever been in was

1 cleric
1 bm
1 veno
3 sins

bosses were droping so quick that they couldn't even get their first special attack off.
example 3rd boss didn't get out the first bishop and 4th boss didn't even start his spam attack.
The dragons didn't know what hit them. It was over so quick that I was never stunned once by them. (groups 6 & 9)

I have to laugh at the people that say "we already have a sin in the squad sorry"
These people have no clue what they are missing.

But I have also been in a 5 person squad with a wiz puller/tank.

So end story is you can go in with just about any type of group. Some are faster than others, some are more efficent then others and some will be just very slow.

XWizz - Lost City · May 2010

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

1)
2 sins and a BM make an amazing team in frost too. or even 2 bm's 1 sin. no need for an archer or wizard with that. HF + subsea + their other AOE's take out any group of mobs in frost.

in short, sin + BM + barb + cleric + sin/bm + expendable class= new frost run. who needs archers and wizards? b:surrender

lol we usually run 2 sins, fist/axe BM, veno, ep, barb...we blow through frosts in no timeb:cute

_Ghoul_ - Lost City · May 2010

good for all of u congratz ur all pro
this barb is not needed muahahah now where did i left my claws at b:sadb:pleased

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2010

Bulldowzah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

never had probs with sin in fc squad..
for a squad i want

tank (wich is me)
cleric
BM
veno
sin or archer
and last, another bm or wizz or psych

venos in FC...for what exactly? Can't see any good use for a veno in FC

Plicid - Heavens Tear · May 2010

Venos use in FC
1) Bramble makes boss go a little faster, clerics get less agro on pulls from barbs not stopping to gain agro, and who doesnt like to wear a hoola hoop?
2) Nova acts as a roar with damage on pulls. If sage can do almost every 30 seconds if not passing sparks. If demon acts as Dragons when BM doesn't have chi
3) Speaking of sparks we can pass them to cleric to set up BB so you don't stand there for 20 seconds before pulling while cleric gets chi
4) Debuffs (Ironwood Scarab, Amplify Damage, Myriad Rainbow) Sage Ironwood is 40% Physical debuff helps BM and Sin Pwn. Sage amp is 30% more damage, and it stacks with Dragons, SubSea Strike and Tangeling Mire.
5) Herc+Veno=better DD on Bosses than Wizard even without debuffs

Not all Venos know how to be efficent and many that I see will just macro on bosses. Macro takes out a little lag between hits but not worth it, since I have yet to see one of those DD macros include Amplify damage. So if you see a lazy Veno yell at them.

Sins in FC

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