FF Run Exp Gap Question

Tupac_Shakur - Heavens Tear
Tupac_Shakur - Heavens Tear Posts: 5 Arc User
edited April 2010 in General Discussion
Ok so i have my 82 sin that i want to start doing FF runs with but its a pain to find a group to get in with at my lvl, SO i asked a friend if i could run with thier group on the FF runs and she and others think since they are 89 and im 82 they will get less exp from the run with a full squad, is that true? i ran one with 90+ belial members and i was by far thee lowest one in there at lvl 81 and got a nice exp jump from it without hyper and im sure i got less because they were so much higher of a lvl but did they also get less exp since i was in the squad, plz fill me in. and to be more direct, im 82 and lets say all the other members in the squad are a minimum of 7 lvls higher than me, do they lose exp and if so would it be more than if they replaced me with a player a couple lvls higher than them?
Post edited by Tupac_Shakur - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yes.

    This is why you see people advertsie 85-90 squads, 90+ squads and the like. A level 82 amongst a bunch of 89s would get less EXP then if they were to run with a squad in the level range of, say, 80-85.

    It's good to note only lower levels would lose EXP like that. A level 82 in a 90+ squad for example, would be the only person getting less experience than normal. I do believe the 90+ members of the squad wouldn't lose any EXP that they would normally get if the whole squad is 90+.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mulanrouge
    mulanrouge Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    easiest, try to stay within a 5 level range gap. makes life easier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's good to note only lower levels would lose EXP like that. A level 82 in a 90+ squad for example, would be the only person getting less experience than normal. I do believe the 90+ members of the squad wouldn't lose any EXP that they would normally get if the whole squad is 90+.

    This is something that I don't understand. If you can get 80 herc veno instantly, why would you wait for 90 veno?
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Tupac_Shakur - Heavens Tear
    Tupac_Shakur - Heavens Tear Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    k thank you, that was my question, they were trippin off losing alot of exp due to me being in the squad and i didnt understand how that would even be possible, i dont mind the exp loss as long as i keep getttin big jumps and its faster than grinding
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is something that I don't understand. If you can get 80 herc veno instantly, why would you wait for 90 veno?

    I personally don't give a damn, but there are a lot of "ohsosrs" players on this game that are under the impression: if it jeopardises EXP, kill it. These are the same people who will kick you out of squad if they hear nary a mention of STA, for example. Or, you know, will brutalise you if you even suggest bringing somebody five levels lower than the lowest level in the squad.

    Oh yeah, FC is srs bzness people.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is something that I don't understand. If you can get 80 herc veno instantly, why would you wait for 90 veno?
    herc veno in FC?
    or better put, veno in FC?
    People have gone mad.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    herc veno in FC?
    or better put, veno in FC?
    People have gone mad.

    Amp FTW. Pet tanking all bosses it can FTW, because those bosses die even faster than normal. And hey, if you aren't in a squad where everybody thinks that if it jeopardises your EXP it has to die, even a sage Soul Degen.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bludd - Harshlands
    Bludd - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Stay within 10 levels and you are fine. Outside of that and the whole party starts to suffer penalties. The greater the gap, the greater the penalty.
  • mulanrouge
    mulanrouge Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    herc veno in FC?
    or better put, veno in FC?
    People have gone mad.

    3 herc veno frost was AMAZING!! we had to convince the barb it would work and he was surprised. generally it is my veno, my friends veno, cleric, barb, wiz and bm = PRO, and fast b:victory
    Bludd - Harshlands wrote: »
    Stay within 10 levels and you are fine. Outside of that and the whole party starts to suffer penalties. The greater the gap, the greater the penalty.

    within 5 and there is no penalty. within 10 there is a definite change. go with 89-99 squad, then go with a 89-94 squad and you will see a difference.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    herc veno in FC?
    or better put, veno in FC?
    People have gone mad.

    Lending Hand?.... hello?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear
    SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    EXP only suffers if there is a 20-level or more spread between the highest and lowest party member.
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    herc veno in FC?
    or better put, veno in FC?
    People have gone mad.

    This made me chuckle b:thanks

    Try to pay me to go into FC without a veno, herc or not b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    EXP only suffers if there is a 20-level or more spread between the highest and lowest party member.

    This is wrong on so many levels.

    Did you just pull the number out of your ****? Because I can promise you that there's an EXP difference within ten levels, never mind twenty.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchSeraph - Dreamweaver
    ArchSeraph - Dreamweaver Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I always try to max out the number of venos on my FC runs. With high level runs, I try to go 1 BM for stuns, 1 Archer for STA and BOA, 1 Cleric for cleric-ing, and 3 venos for boss raep. It really speeds along the second half of FC with all of the unadjusted pet damage against the [?] bosses.
  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I personally don't give a damn, but there are a lot of "ohsosrs" players on this game that are under the impression: if it jeopardises EXP, kill it. These are the same people who will kick you out of squad if they hear nary a mention of STA, for example. Or, you know, will brutalise you if you even suggest bringing somebody five levels lower than the lowest level in the squad.

    Oh yeah, FC is srs bzness people.

    Okay... I vote that after the new patch Airyll gets 1000 free Perfect Horns! She can teach Dreamweaver some common sense b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/drop has a nice table of how level difference affects drops and EXP.

    I'm not certain how it's applied to squads though. That is, if it's based on the highest level or the average (I'm leaning towards highest), and how it affects how the EXP is distributed between the squad members.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Okay... I vote that after the new patch Airyll gets 1000 free Perfect Horns! She can teach Dreamweaver some common sense b:laugh

    I'm not too sure whether this was sarcasm or not

    But I will point out I am really bad with telecoustics and can burn through a lot of them very quickly. ._." Man, I would love 1000 free Perfect Horns, but I wouldn't guarantee common sense being used in all of them.

    @ Cholla : I can't tell you what the exact EXP difference is because I haven't personally studied the difference. It just came up in a squad once while I was in my 8x levels with another 8x person and the rest being relatively high 9x, and both me and the other person noticed we weren't getting quite the same amount we used to.

    In general the difference is so menial it doesn't matter but there's a lot of people out there who will cry over a loss 0.001% of EXP

    Oh, and no, it wasn't an STA issue. Was requested by a squad member not to use STA in the same run I mentioned earlier, and since I generally don't like to argue in game about the menial EXP difference STA might cause, I just didn't use it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    ArchSeraph - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I always try to max out the number of venos on my FC runs. With high level runs, I try to go 1 BM for stuns, 1 Archer for STA and BOA, 1 Cleric for cleric-ing, and 3 venos for boss raep. It really speeds along the second half of FC with all of the unadjusted pet damage against the [?] bosses.

    Every talking about herc damage on bosses. Can you tell me, how big damage do herc on FC boss? Pls tell me how big damage do herc on bosses. PLEASE.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Every talking about herc damage on bosses. Can you tell me, how big damage do herc on FC boss? Pls tell me how big damage do herc on bosses. PLEASE.

    You're talking about the post you quoted like she only said one Herc veno.

    A squad of three or four venos is godly just about anywhere provided all venos know what they're doing. Remember, a Herc might not crit, and it might miss from time to time, but it has no damage penalties. When you consider three or four Hercs in the same FC squad, you're looking at the equivalent of two extra players in addition to the six squad members you already have.

    Don't get me wrong, wizards are awesome damage dealers, but I hate to say if it was a choice between one wizard and four venos of any kind who all utilise pets, I'd go with the venos. Consta-amp among other things.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It's more about how little damage everyone else does. ? bosses are level 150, so you have (150-your level)% damage reduction.

    Pets have no damage reduction, so they will generally outdamage any other class against ? bosses.

    Best Frost run I've done was 48 minutes, and we killed every mob. Barb, BM, Cleric, Archer, 2 venos.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's more about how little damage everyone else does. ? bosses are level 150, so you have (150-your level)% damage reduction.

    Pets have no damage reduction, so they will generally outdamage any other class against ? bosses.

    Best Frost run I've done was 48 minutes, and we killed every mob. Barb, BM, Cleric, Archer, 2 venos.

    So why nobody doesn't want to tell me how big damage do hercules on bosses? I tell you why because it's BS. Hercules on bosses NEVER outdamage me. I bet with any1. Post some1 video pls on FC bosses how big damage do hercules. I think is just rumors. With nowadays +8 end game weapons he doesn't have chance. When I see video I will be first who will apologize.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So why nobody doesn't want to tell me how big damage do hercules on bosses? I tell you why because it's BS. Hercules on bosses NEVER outdamage me. I bet with any1.

    ONE Hercules probably won't but we are talking about MULTIPLE PETS.

    When you can learn to read the above and understand it, please come back and talk to us then. Also, at level 71, my veno's Hercules is hitting for 1.3k or something along those digits every mob, every boss. I still have about thirteen levels to go before I can get into an FC squad.

    So. Again because you keep missing the point:

    A single Hercules, or any pet alone, probably wouldn't out damage you.
    MULTIPLE PETS will out damage you because no pet has reduced damage.

    -edit-

    I've not even started talking about the bonuses from the MULTIPLE VENOS who would BE DEALING DAMAGE ALONGSIDE THEIR PET.

    Hate to break the news to you, but two venos who have a pet each and use it on a boss will outdamage you, hands down.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ONE Hercules probably won't but we are talking about MULTIPLE PETS.

    When you can learn to read the above and understand it, please come back and talk to us then. Also, at level 71, my veno's Hercules is hitting for 1.3k or something along those digits every mob, every boss. I still have about thirteen levels to go before I can get into an FC squad.

    So. Again because you keep missing the point:

    A single Hercules, or any pet alone, probably wouldn't out damage you.
    MULTIPLE PETS will out damage you because no pet has reduced damage.
    Ok them multiple wizards also. 3 Wizards will do MUCH,MUCH,MUCH more damages on bosses than 3 hercules.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok them multiple wizards also. 3 Wizard will do MUCH,MUCH,MUCH more damages on bosses than 3 hercules.

    You still completely twist the point.

    You only focus on the Hercules as if that's the only thing about the veno. So let's get down to basics because you are completely missing the god damn point here.

    1. Veno can deal damage.
    2. Veno has pet. Pet can also deal damage.
    3. Pet has no damage reduction.
    4. Veno has amp and purge.

    One veno on their own is useful. Now then, let's say you have TWO venos.

    1. You have two people dealing damage.
    2. You have two pets dealing damage.
    3. Neither pet has a damage reduction. [Where as both wizzies still would.]
    4. Both venos have amp and purge, meaning bosses can be amped and purged when needed more often.

    And so on, and so forth.

    Getting the picture yet?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    *sniffle* ...why must everyone always put us Wizards down...it's hard enough to get into a squad as is...!

    b:sad

    b:cry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *sniffle* ...why must everyone always put us Wizards down...it's hard enough to get into a squad as is...!

    b:sad

    b:cry

    Don't get me wrong Konari, I love wizards in FC squads, but when it comes to the debate here... veno kind of wins. ._.

    [I also totally love wizards because in a zhen area of FC, if anybody is going to die it's going to be the wizard in DB first. I know to take down BoA, pop shell and take a pot at this point. =3 ]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You still completely twist the point.

    You only focus on the Hercules as if that's the only thing about the veno. So let's get down to basics because you are completely missing the god damn point here.

    1. Veno can deal damage.
    2. Veno has pet. Pet can also deal damage.
    3. Pet has no damage reduction.
    4. Veno has amp and purge.

    One veno on their own is useful. Now then, let's say you have TWO venos.

    1. You have two people dealing damage.
    2. You have two pets dealing damage.
    3. Neither pet has a damage reduction. [Where as both wizzies still would.]
    4. Both venos have amp and purge, meaning bosses can be amped and purged when needed more often.

    And so on, and so forth.

    Getting the picture yet?

    Ok Now 3 wizard. One of them use undine which lower by 60% magic defense on boss. This undine will stand for all 3 wizard so all 3 wizards will do around 20% more damage and then just cast it again.
    Another. You telling about 3 venos. But I heard about every1 want veno because of damage reduction. Not 3 venos just 1. And I telling you this is BS. The true is that veno with herc never outdamage end game wizard on bosses. That's why nobody want to tell me how big damage do hercules or post video.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong Konari, I love wizards in FC squads, but when it comes to the debate here... veno kind of wins. ._.

    [I also totally love wizards because in a zhen area of FC, if anybody is going to die it's going to be the wizard in DB first. I know to take down BoA, pop shell and take a pot at this point. =3 ]

    ...

    ...glad you love us for our suicidal tendencies, Airy.

    b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong Konari, I love wizards in FC squads, but when it comes to the debate here... veno kind of wins. ._.

    [I also totally love wizards because in a zhen area of FC, if anybody is going to die it's going to be the wizard in DB first. I know to take down BoA, pop shell and take a pot at this point. =3 ]

    I have 6800 HP with barb buff and almost 9K p.def. FC run is just walking in paradise. And if wizard die in DB it's because he has 40 mobs on him. Veno should try get 40 mobs on him. Do you think he would survive? He wouldn't survive 10 not 40.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ok Now 3 wizard. One of them use undine which lower by 60% magic defense on boss. This undine will stand for all 3 wizard so all 3 wizards will do around 20% more damage and then just cast it again.
    Another. You telling about 3 venos. But I heard about every1 want veno because of damage reduction. Not 3 venos just 1. And I telling you this is BS. The true is that veno with herc never outdamage end game wizard on bosses. That's why nobody want to tell me how big damage do hercules or post video.

    Or maybe because you can't argue, what little argument you do have sucks absolute balls and you refuse to actually listen to what anybody says at all!

    When you start blathering on about a wizard being a better DD than a veno the conversation had already moved on to talk about multiple venos. In fact one of the very posts you quoted had been talking about MULTIPLE VENO SQUADS and yet you addressed it as if it had been talking about a single veno squad.

    Your blatant idiocy on this issue and, I might add here, no statements of numbers or facts yourself is why nobody can be bothered with you. Please grow a brain and then come back to this topic.

    -edit-

    Mumintroll, you've just proven what an idiot you are.

    When a veno ends up with 40 mobs on them they use fox form. In fact if it's a heavy/robe veno they have a better chance than you to survive.

    As already stated, grow a brain, learn veno skills and suchlike, and come back to this thread. You're doing a very bad job at trying to prove your point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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