FF Run Exp Gap Question
Comments
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Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »...
...glad you love us for our suicidal tendencies, Airy.
b:cute
I worship you for it. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Not this topic again =/
**** the level, class, type, experience of anyone in the squad. Just find a bunch of nice, friendly people, make sure you have the basics (tank + healer) and go have fun. You're gonna come out with nice exp and level eventually anyway. It's a game, for fun and all that, if anyone actually understands that word. Your squad members are human beings, do people seriously expect to make friends judging and excluding others by their in-game items and level?
Seriously, they should put the anti-social exp addicts on completely separate severs from the players looking to enjoy the game, relax and make friends.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »I worship you for it. b:victory
It's people like you that make me happy that my Emberstorm is Level 10...and I USE IT.
b:mischievous[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Apparently you are out of arguments so you starting insulting people.Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Or maybe because you can't argue, what little argument you do have sucks absolute balls and you refuse to actually listen to what anybody says at all!
When you start blathering on about a wizard being a better DD than a veno the conversation had already moved on to talk about multiple venos. In fact one of the very posts you quoted had been talking about MULTIPLE VENO SQUADS and yet you addressed it as if it had been talking about a single veno squad.
Your blatant idiocy on this issue and, I might add here, no statements of numbers or facts yourself is why nobody can be bothered with you. Please grow a brain and then come back to this topic.
99% Of FC run doesn't have 3 venos. And you cannot stand with just simple fact, that veno doesn't do bigger damage on bosses than wizard, regardless of damage reduction. Veno is very good for tanking but weak as DD compared to wizard.(I'm telling about boss damage of course.) That's why nobody want to post video with high lv. herc. Because this RUMOR would be gone forever.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Seriously, they should put the anti-social exp addicts on completely separate severs from the players looking to enjoy the game, relax and make friends.
Good god.... I tried to imagine a server like that and I think I may have just shed a tear.
Oh, wait... all the servers are practically like that these days already. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mumintroll does make more sense to me.
at high level i think dds outdd herc in instances
one veno in squad will also make wizzie deal more dmg cuz of amp and purge. if one wizzard can outdd veno+pet then i don't see why take more than one veno in squad. and you can't even compare multiple venos and one wizzie. if u talk about 3 venos then talk about 3 wizzies. if one wizzie already outdd one veno then 3 wizzies definately will outdd 3 venos too.
and neither hercs or venos don't start deal more dmg than normal with more venos in squad so multiplying them is useless because amp don't stack up.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Or maybe because you can't argue, what little argument you do have sucks absolute balls and you refuse to actually listen to what anybody says at all!
When you start blathering on about a wizard being a better DD than a veno the conversation had already moved on to talk about multiple venos. In fact one of the very posts you quoted had been talking about MULTIPLE VENO SQUADS and yet you addressed it as if it had been talking about a single veno squad.
Your blatant idiocy on this issue and, I might add here, no statements of numbers or facts yourself is why nobody can be bothered with you. Please grow a brain and then come back to this topic.
-edit-
Mumintroll, you've just proven what an idiot you are.
When a veno ends up with 40 mobs on them they use fox form. In fact if it's a heavy/robe veno they have a better chance than you to survive.
As already stated, grow a brain, learn veno skills and suchlike, and come back to this thread. You're doing a very bad job at trying to prove your point.
You know what. Go back to kindergarten there is your place. Maybe kids there will believe you. You will be hero there but here you just shows yourself as a BIG moron without arguments and evidence.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »Apparently you are out of arguments so you starting insulting people.
99% Of FC run doesn't have 3 venos. And you cannot stand with just simple fact, that veno doesn't do bigger damage on bosses than wizard, regardless of damage reduction. Veno is very good for tanking but weak as DD compared to wizard.(I'm telling about boss damage of course.) That's why nobody want to post video with high lv. herc. Because this RUMOR would be gone forever.
Okay, so you're clearly seriously too stupid to even realise...
Nobody was even saying a veno was a better DD. We were all pointing out how a veno is more useful in certain ways than a wizard.
Seriously, grow up and grow some balls. I don't give a **** if a veno out damage a wizard because:
- The pet can tank, meaning everybody can DD. [Can you do that?]
- They can give chi to the cleric or tank provided they have the spark. [Can you do that, either?]
- Amp. [Can you do that?]
Oh, snap. The veno's looking more useful already and I've not even finished.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
*pokes thread* Hey, c'mon now...let's not get too hot in here...don't wanna spark a conflagration or nothin' ($1 words FTW?)
b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Okay, so you're clearly seriously too stupid to even realise...
Nobody was even saying a veno was a better DD. We were all pointing out how a veno is more useful in certain ways than a wizard.
Seriously, grow up and grow some balls. I don't give a **** if a veno out damage a wizard because:
- The pet can tank, meaning everybody can DD. [Can you do that?]
- They can give chi to the cleric or tank provided they have the spark. [Can you do that, either?]
- Amp. [Can you do that?]
Oh, snap. The veno's looking more useful already and I've not even finished.
BUT then is NOT true, that Herc do more damage on bosses regardless on reduction than end game wizard. Venos have their place as a tanking support without doubt, but telling that they do more damage on bosses with herc is NOT true. That's all.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »*pokes thread* Hey, c'mon now...let's not get too hot in here...don't wanna spark a conflagration or nothin' ($1 words FTW?)
b:surrender
... Say whut? Also, on a side note, where I am it is abso-freaking-lutely freezing and I've been shivering for the past hour or so. So what if I want to get hot?
Man that last sentence sounded terrible in my tired mind. -headdesk- (What about us who don't use dollars? )[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
one veno can do that job, don't need many.
you just admited that venos suck as dds, so why add more sucky dds to squad if can add better dds like wizzies?
in this case:
2 wizzies + 1 veno > 3 venos0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »BUT then is NOT true, that Herc do more damage on bosses regardless on reduction than end game wizard. Venos have their place as a tanking support without doubt, but telling that they do more damage on bosses with herc is NOT true. That's all.
-facepalms- My god you're an idiot.
I never said that a Herc would out damage a wizzy. I said venos were more useful in certain respects.
Please just GTFO off the thread before you hurt yourself anymore.
(Double post? )
-edit-
No double post.
However Skimi you seem to completely miss the fact:
- More venos = more lending hands. This would almost be a constant feed of chi for clerics or tanks and hell maybe even a DD, which would make the run faster.
- Consta-amp. Amp doesn't need to stack, but with two or three venos, amp is on a boss more often. This too speeds up the run.
- Pets have no damage reductions, so let's pretend a Herc does 2k damage normal attack. That's 4k between the two hercs which is the equivalent of another DD there. i]Note how I said DD, and did not specify a class[/i
Seriously, people need to shut up and think about things before they let their fingers loose on a keyboard[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »-facepalms- My god you're an idiot.
I never said that a Herc would out damage a wizzy. I said venos were more useful in certain respects.
Please just GTFO off the thread before you hurt yourself anymore.
(Double post? )
OMG Read you posts pls. You have really talent to twists the facts.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »ONE Hercules probably won't but we are talking about MULTIPLE PETS.
When you can learn to read the above and understand it, please come back and talk to us then. Also, at level 71, my veno's Hercules is hitting for 1.3k or something along those digits every mob, every boss. I still have about thirteen levels to go before I can get into an FC squad.
So. Again because you keep missing the point:
A single Hercules, or any pet alone, probably wouldn't out damage you.
MULTIPLE PETS will out damage you because no pet has reduced damage.
-edit-
I've not even started talking about the bonuses from the MULTIPLE VENOS who would BE DEALING DAMAGE ALONGSIDE THEIR PET.
Hate to break the news to you, but two venos who have a pet each and use it on a boss will outdamage you, hands down.
well here u do state that mutliple pets would outDD wizzie and forget that instead of 3 venos u can take 1 veno and 2 wizzies what would make boss get much more dmg than 3 venos0 -
Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »well here u do state that mutliple pets would outDD wizzie and forget that instead of 3 venos u can take 1 veno and 2 wizzies what would make boss get much more dmg than 3 venos
No, I didn't state that multiple pets would out DD a wizard I said that two Hercs in a squad doing 2k damage every attack would out DD the average DD. This could mean a Blademaster or archer as well, because wizards are not the only DDs in the world.
Learn to read, then get back to me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll to Mumintroll
"A single Hercules, or any pet alone, probably wouldn't out damage you.
MULTIPLE PETS will out damage you because no pet has reduced damage."
learn to read what you have typed before asking me to learn to read.
u said that to wizzie so meaning that multiple hers can outdd wizzie but you r missing the point with mupltiplying you need to multiply both sides
wizzy = x
veno = y
x > y ( as you stated yourself veno with pet don't out dd wizzie)
x > y | x3 (or put in any number with what you want to mupltiply it with, well mupltiplying doesnt even make sense, but i guess you like to do it so here)
3x > 3y
so then again we r back to 1 veno + 2 dds r better than 3 venos0 -
Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »Text I didn't read
1. Read the post above yours.
2. Don't throw letters at me, go get me numbers. Real, honest to god numbers from the game.
3. Your little algebra doesn't work anyway because you are still treating venomancers like they are only made up of their pets. Once again, read the post above yours.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »1. Read the post above yours.
2. Don't throw letters at me, go get me numbers. Real, honest to god numbers from the game.
3. Your little algebra doesn't work anyway because you are still treating venomancers like they are only made up of their pets. Once again, read the post above yours.
1. i did read it
2. you were the one who started call others as idiots without getting real numbers
3. i have all rights to treat venos how i want IMO. squad have 1 tank, 1 cleric and 1 veno and rest r dds. you want put venos as dds when you state yourself that veno deals crappy dmg and wizzie can outdd veno. then it just makes more sense to put wizzie in squad for dding than veno. and im sorry but algebra doesn't change if i think that venos deals less dmg or that sky is in purple color.
and im really tired of trying to talk to arrogant person, who just knows how to call others as idiots without getting real numbers in the 1st place.0 -
maybe i read through to quickly but i don't think i ever saw Airyll say venos have crappy damage....
if you count the damage from ONLY the veno or ONLY the pet then the dps would be lower than a wizzie but you have to count both together if you are considering how much damage they do....if you don't it would be the equivalent of cutting the wizzies damage in half....
also you have to count how much extra damage is added per squad member for amp but with one veno amp doesn't stay up 100% of the time...to do that you need at least two who are paying attention.
also sparking the barbs helps them keep agro so the dds can do more damage w/o pulling agro...and after sparking the barbs with more venos you can also get extra sparks to the bms for dragons or dds for more damage.
personally i go with 2 venos not three but that might be because im a low level still b:sad and 2 is how many you need for constant amp...and we need the dds for the bishop boss ><; although i found an assassin helps fill that position well for helping stun with the bm...and they come with their own amp/dragons/poison thing...and they dont need sparks as much....anyone tried dragons+glacial? its fun b:pleased
-first post don't be too mean please b:surrender0 -
Sage Amp (30%) only lasts 20 seconds with a 30 sec cooldown (31.5 sec cycle time due to casting time). So you really need two venos if you want it applied all the time. Demon Amp lasts 26 seconds with the same cooldown, but is only 25%. So two venos are good. Your marginal gain for adding the third veno is limited to straight damage though.Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »and neither hercs or venos don't start deal more dmg than normal with more venos in squad so multiplying them is useless because amp don't stack up.
Also, Sage/Demon lending hand (level 99) have a 15 sec cooldown. So I'm not sure how useful it really is to have more than two high-level venos passing chi.
Actually, the barb pdef debuff is better (maxes out at 50%), and the cleric's is the same as the veno's (30% at level 10, 40% for Sage). Venos do get spells which have a chance to debuff pdef and mdef by 100% though.Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »Her point: damage party does because of veno is a lot. You have herc damage + veno damage + amp (easily +13% of everyone's damage but also this stacks with blademaster amp) + ironwood (+7% of archer and blademaster and herc and barbarian damage).
Don't most of the bosses in FF attack with melee anyway? So whether a wiz can out-damage a herc would be irrelevant. If the wiz out-damages a herc by a significant margin, s/he pulls aggro and die unless s/he can tank the bosses (which, granted, a level 100 wiz might be able to). Each party member's damage output is limited by the ability of the tank (herc or barb) to hold aggro.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/drop has a nice table of how level difference affects drops and EXP.
I'm not certain how it's applied to squads though. That is, if it's based on the highest level or the average (I'm leaning towards highest), and how it affects how the EXP is distributed between the squad members.
Try this: take a squad consisting of, for instance, 5 members within 10 level spread, and 1 member more than 10 level spread. Kill one mob, note the exp received, and then have the member outside the spread leave squad. Kill the same mob again, and note the exp received. Or trade out the 6th member for another that is within the level-spread, if you suspect the number of squad members also affects it.0 -
SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »Try this: take a squad consisting of, for instance, 5 members within 10 level spread, and 1 member more than 10 level spread. Kill one mob, note the exp received, and then have the member outside the spread leave squad. Kill the same mob again, and note the exp received. Or trade out the 6th member for another that is within the level-spread, if you suspect the number of squad members also affects it.
The problem is the term "spread" makes people think its in both directions. Your statement is true if that "1 person" is dramatically higher then the squad. But its false if that 1 person is dramatically lower in level then the squad. Basically Exp is based off the highest person in the squad.
If your squad is average lvl 87, but there's a 100 in it, then you're killing like 87s (slower) but Exp is nerfed according to a lvl 100. On the other hand if your average level is say 92, but there's an 80 in your squad, you're still killing like a bunch of 92s, and getting experience as if you're roughly the same (highest lvl in squad but in this scenario highest is near the average).
Its obviously best to keep everyone close, say 5 levels. But it can be wider. The main thing is to avoid singular people drastically out of the general average, as too low will be generally less useful, and too high will nerf your XP.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »The problem is the term "spread" makes people think its in both directions. Your statement is true if that "1 person" is dramatically higher then the squad. But its false if that 1 person is dramatically lower in level then the squad. Basically Exp is based off the highest person in the squad.
If your squad is average lvl 87, but there's a 100 in it, then you're killing like 87s (slower) but Exp is nerfed according to a lvl 100. On the other hand if your average level is say 92, but there's an 80 in your squad, you're still killing like a bunch of 92s, and getting experience as if you're roughly the same (highest lvl in squad but in this scenario highest is near the average).
Its obviously best to keep everyone close, say 5 levels. But it can be wider. The main thing is to avoid singular people drastically out of the general average, as too low will be generally less useful, and too high will nerf your XP.
I fail to see how you could even relate this to the concept of "true" or "false". It is merely outlining a procedure in which one could test for him/herself how different levels affect exp. Please read before posting.0
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