Assassin & Psychic Demon/Sage Skills
Comments
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HairyFocker - Lost City wrote: »sorry dude, i've already captured your real thoughts on it.
well, even if Dagger Devotion sucks a bit..
looking at the skills i use the most(rib & stuns).. i'd rather have longer stun effect..
you probably woun't be able to sage/demon all of them anyways..
but if they do cut down Shadow Tele's CD TO 30secs.. it will be Sage for me.. yeah b:victoryb:victory
agreed. the skills i tend to use most get a lot better as demon than sage. i got for speed rather than hard hitting high damage. i play my wiz for high numbers, why make another?
as far as the demon skills go, the only 2 i dont like are maze steps and tackling slash. i just wont get them pretty simple. demon knife throw is cool though. 100% interrupt is going to be nice. 8 sec sleep, 6 sec headhunt and 5 second shadow teleport is alot of lock time. especially when coupled with occult ice if needed and tackling/throatcut.
sage raving slash is nice, but only lasts 5 seconds. you arent killing that barb/bm in 2/3 skills.
my genies tangling mire reduces pdef 53% for 10 seconds. thats a much better deal when coupled with demon spark.
fight goes something like this: full chi, glacial frost orb (apoth pot), triple spark, wolf emblem, maze steps, tackling slash, tangling mire, inner harmony, power dash, swing to victory.
with full skills thats 240% crit damage with roughly 70% chance to crit at 5 APS with boosted base damage from triple. should be pretty deadly even on high HP barbs unless they pop dew of star, turtle, or invincible powder. If they do, just shadow escape and try again later.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Why do people keep thinking Power Dash increases crit %? It increases your RAGE DAMAGE (ie. how much DAMAGE your crit does)0
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Vathael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why do people keep thinking Power Dash increases crit %? It increases your RAGE DAMAGE (ie. how much DAMAGE your crit does)
the description is WRONG
it increases your critical chance.
and actually, if you open your skill page and look at the description given there:
"Dash into an enemy formation with a death determination. Deals physical damage and increases own Critstrike rate."
maybe you should try the skill out? b:shutupI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Vathael - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why do people keep thinking Power Dash increases crit %? It increases your RAGE DAMAGE (ie. how much DAMAGE your crit does)
Or the fact that it gives you the same icon as Leaf Dance or Dragon Bane?0 -
well I'll be damned. Alright, I stand corrected. That is just... wow. I'm pretty happy haha0
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Yeah it's pretty nice. b:dirty0
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lol, thats really freakin amazing... lol b:bye"Stay cool, be respectful, know your limits, and accept it when you've lost....
...then maybe i'll stick around a bit longer. b:victory" -Anonymous
93 Barb (BattleBurger)
100 Assassin (TurboTaxi)0 -
<
My first post with lvl 80 avatar.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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lol grats ^_^ Evict! good to see another fellow sin is running around invisible as well xD"Stay cool, be respectful, know your limits, and accept it when you've lost....
...then maybe i'll stick around a bit longer. b:victory" -Anonymous
93 Barb (BattleBurger)
100 Assassin (TurboTaxi)0 -
You guys missed the point.
A Sage sin will pawn a Demon sin 100% hands down.
Why?
All a Sage sin needs to do is execute a Rib Strike on a Demon sin and there goes his dps. Sage sin still has maximun potential at +53 attack level so that sums up everything.
Don't talk about a demon sin's stun locking capabilities because a simple Mazing Step can negate all effects.0 -
Wolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »You guys missed the point.
A Sage sin will pawn a Demon sin 100% hands down.
Why?
All a Sage sin needs to do is execute a Rib Strike on a Demon sin and there goes his dps. Sage sin still has maximun potential at +53 attack level so that sums up everything.
Don't talk about a demon sin's stun locking capabilities because a simple Mazing Step can negate all effects.
rib stike is effective
but can u really say dmg + 65% slower >> 10% hp off the bat + 50% slower + damage?
b:chuckle
btw when you have +53 attack level your defense is cut by 50%
+ tangling mire makes your defense 0%
a demon sin doesnt even need to use a skill to take you down then
demon spark -> tangling mire -> normal attack, hit once or twice if charmed
....and because you debuffed yourself...b:bye b:bye bye bye sage fishy
PS.
throat cut >> maze step
u wont even survive the 10 sec maze step gives you with your 0% defense L.O.L.Angel BEGONE!! b:angry
The Devil has my ear today b:pleased0 -
SaphireDemon - Lost City wrote: »rib stike is effective
but can u really say dmg + 65% slower >> 10% hp off the bat + 50% slower + damage?
b:chuckle
btw when you have +53 attack level your defense is cut by 50%
+ tangling mire makes your defense 0%
a demon sin doesnt even need to use a skill to take you down then
demon spark -> tangling mire -> normal attack, hit once or twice if charmed
....and because you debuffed yourself...b:bye b:bye bye bye sage fishy
PS.
throat cut >> maze step
u wont even survive the 10 sec maze step gives you with your 0% defense L.O.L.
um... why is their defense cut 50%?
also, smart demon sins will throw maze steps and wait for the sage sin to rib strike before triple sparking, hence purifying the rib strike and owning said sage sin. if the sage sin doesn't rib strike, he wont live long to a demons 3.33-4 APS anyway.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »um... why is their defense cut 50%?
also, smart demon sins will throw maze steps and wait for the sage sin to rib strike before triple sparking, hence purifying the rib strike and owning said sage sin. if the sage sin doesn't rib strike, he wont live long to a demons 3.33-4 APS anyway.
Try surviving CoTD -> Wolf Emblem -> // Combo Starts // Rib Strike ( To weaken demon target, or to buy time while they triple sparks ) Subsea Stike (15 sec) - Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > Inner Harmony -> Power Dash ( 8 sec ) -> Bramble Rage -> Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
I bet not many people knows that your character's Crit Rate and Attack Level is being shared with your genie? Its tested before b:laugh Bramble with 53 atk lvl and an almost assured Crit is rofl.
The sad thing about a sin is that, an external skill actually deals more damage than Sin's strongest attack - Lv 10 Headhunt - at least, against HAs and LAs. A pure dex pet with a high level bramble can easily surpass that mark.
People kept talking about a demon's dps poweress but we gotta remember that we're LA. We're considered a Squishy. And our main objective is to minimise engagement time. You can have all the damage you have, but once you're dead, you can't do nuts. I find it funny that people are comparing BM's fist build to a Sin's dagger build. A BM is HA, and they have +phy def or +mag def marrow coupled with genie abilities so they have the luxury to dps. We sins can't do that. Mage with essential Sutra can easily finish us off within the sutra's time spent, or perhaps's we've to deal with the crazy rate of damage reflection against a veno, or try to survive a barb with amarggaddon.
Imo, I think its far more feasible for sins to attempt one hitting squishies in TW within 2-3 seconds and then get back to stealth. Tackling slash and then meleeing a target all the way in a 80 vs 80 warfare will get a sin killed. The longer time you spent exposed, the higher chances of getting ganked.
Demon seemed more like a built for those who love duels and prefer DDing PvE mobs. Sage sins probably fare better in TWs and open PvP.
We should come out with a damage curve chart. My rough gauge would be, any combat that lasts below 6-10 seconds, a Sage sin will win. Anything that last above 10 seconds, demon wins. It all comes down to which sin will survive before the 10 seconds mark.0 -
SaphireDemon - Lost City wrote: »1) rib stike is effective
but can u really say dmg + 65% slower >> 10% hp off the bat + 50% slower + damage?
b:chuckle
2) btw when you have +53 attack level your defense is cut by 50%
+ tangling mire makes your defense 0%
3) a demon sin doesnt even need to use a skill to take you down then
demon spark -> tangling mire -> normal attack, hit once or twice if charmed
....and because you debuffed yourself...b:bye b:bye bye bye sage fishy
PS.
4) throat cut >> maze step
u wont even survive the 10 sec maze step gives you with your 0% defense L.O.L.
1) Sage Sins don't rely on attack speed. 10% Hp debuff can be purified by shadow escaping, or triple sparking. And what what does damage suppose to mean? o.O?
2) Since when will our defense be cut by 50%? Tangling mire reduces defense by percentage. There is no way in the world you can reduce someone's defense to 0%.
3) Provided that the attacks do not miss through evasion and focused mind. A Pure Dex pet with high level bramble with Crit + the amp from Subsea can easily deal 4-6k damage in a shot. You'll need to survive that 6 seconds ordeal that I've suggested in my earlier post before you can release the demon poweress.
4) Where on earth do you get this info about 0% defense theory? Link to the thread, please, or it doesn't exist. Besides, a skill that reduces defense to zero? Any commoner will know that its too OP a skill, needless to say that a GM will even make that happen.0 -
Try surviving CoTD -> Wolf Emblem -> // Combo Starts // Rib Strike ( To weaken demon target, or to buy time while they triple sparks ) Subsea Stike (15 sec) - Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > Inner Harmony -> Power Dash ( 8 sec ) -> Bramble Rage -> Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
take the skill times to heart mind you, powedash and subsea by themselves is already 6-7 sec from casting anim. by the time you have subsea I maybe clickified headhunt and began lock then seal overlapping lol.
But really, chill out for a bit none of these are definite, just a small leak from another forum with translations of skills that have yet to go into beta.I can see what you see not,
Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone,
Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be,
Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.0 -
Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »take the skill times to heart mind you, powedash and subsea by themselves is already 6-7 sec from casting anim. by the time you have subsea I maybe clickified headhunt and began lock then seal overlapping lol.
But really, chill out for a bit none of these are definite, just a small leak from another forum with translations of skills that have yet to go into beta.
thanks for pointing that out to him.Wolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »Try surviving CoTD -> Wolf Emblem -> // Combo Starts // Rib Strike ( To weaken demon target, or to buy time while they triple sparks ) Subsea Stike (15 sec) - Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > Inner Harmony -> Power Dash ( 8 sec ) -> Bramble Rage -> Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
I bet not many people knows that your character's Crit Rate and Attack Level is being shared with your genie? Its tested before b:laugh Bramble with 53 atk lvl and an almost assured Crit is rofl.
The sad thing about a sin is that, an external skill actually deals more damage than Sin's strongest attack - Lv 10 Headhunt - at least, against HAs and LAs. A pure dex pet with a high level bramble can easily surpass that mark.
People kept talking about a demon's dps poweress but we gotta remember that we're LA. We're considered a Squishy. And our main objective is to minimise engagement time. You can have all the damage you have, but once you're dead, you can't do nuts. I find it funny that people are comparing BM's fist build to a Sin's dagger build. A BM is HA, and they have +phy def or +mag def marrow coupled with genie abilities so they have the luxury to dps. We sins can't do that. Mage with essential Sutra can easily finish us off within the sutra's time spent, or perhaps's we've to deal with the crazy rate of damage reflection against a veno, or try to survive a barb with amarggaddon.
Imo, I think its far more feasible for sins to attempt one hitting squishies in TW within 2-3 seconds and then get back to stealth. Tackling slash and then meleeing a target all the way in a 80 vs 80 warfare will get a sin killed. The longer time you spent exposed, the higher chances of getting ganked.
Demon seemed more like a built for those who love duels and prefer DDing PvE mobs. Sage sins probably fare better in TWs and open PvP.
We should come out with a damage curve chart. My rough gauge would be, any combat that lasts below 6-10 seconds, a Sage sin will win. Anything that last above 10 seconds, demon wins. It all comes down to which sin will survive before the 10 seconds mark.
in the 6-7 seconds you spend on that combo a demon sin has now hit you 30-35 times. no amount of skills is going to beat that.
good info on the genie skills with attack level. if thats really true that is pretty amazingI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »um... why is their defense cut 50%?Wolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
2) Since when will our defense be cut by 50%? Tangling mire reduces defense by percentage. There is no way in the world you can reduce someone's defense to 0%.
the skill u sage sins love so much and increases ur atk lvl by +10 (sage raving slash since u both obviously did not know) cuts ur defense by 50%. this makes u EXTREMELY squishy. even more squishy then u normally are. so it doesn't matter if u have +53 atk lvl, a demon sin will still do MORE dmg to u because of ur own skill COMBINED with tangling mire or other armor break stuff. your +53 atk lvl means nothing of the target is doing more dmg to u then u can do to them.
you guys are real silly sometimes. try to learn the effects of ur own skills kk?0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »the skill u sage sins love so much and increases ur atk lvl by +10 (sage raving slash since u both obviously did not know) cuts ur defense by 50%. this makes u EXTREMELY squishy. even more squishy then u normally are. so it doesn't matter if u have +53 atk lvl, a demon sin will still do MORE dmg to u because of ur own skill COMBINED with tangling mire or other armor break stuff. your +53 atk lvl means nothing of the target is doing more dmg to u then u can do to them.
you guys are real silly sometimes. try to learn the effects of ur own skills kk?
Sage makes you better at what you are "supposed" to do......ie kill sqiushies
so that's why this raving slash is useful against wiz and cleric..
But for pvp I THINK demon is better
But there is no definite "Best" yet since these skills aren't really "out"
b:byePS......I'm half-joking b:mischievous0 -
Wolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »Try surviving CoTD -> Wolf Emblem -> // Combo Starts // Rib Strike ( To weaken demon target, or to buy time while they triple sparks ) Subsea Stike (15 sec) - Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > Inner Harmony -> Power Dash ( 8 sec ) -> Bramble Rage -> Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
.
CoTD -> Wolf emblem (compared to a demon WE your WE tickles)
-> rib strike ->Subsea Stike (15 sec)
Subsea sage lasts 8 sec, demon lasts 15 sec, get your own classes skills straight -.-
- Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > (grats your a squishy for 10 sec)
Inner Harmony ->
Power Dash ( 8 sec ) ->
Bramble Rage ->
Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
This skill combo would kill any Sin
... any smart sin would stun you by the time you rib stroke himWolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »1) Sage Sins don't rely on attack speed. 10% Hp debuff can be purified by shadow escaping, or triple sparking. And what what does damage suppose to mean? o.O?
Rib strike does damage, *newsflash*
2) Since when will our defense be cut by 50%? Tangling mire reduces defense by percentage. There is no way in the world you can reduce someone's defense to 0%.
Raving slash makes your OWN defence become 50% lower
tangling mire with a good genie finishes the job, so sage sin = close to 0% defence GG
3) Provided that the attacks do not miss through evasion and focused mind. A Pure Dex pet with high level bramble with Crit + the amp from Subsea can easily deal 4-6k damage in a shot. You'll need to survive that 6 seconds ordeal that I've suggested in my earlier post before you can release the demon poweress.
a Demon sin has to survive 6 sec then a sage sin 1 hit ko's him
a stunn interupts your combo in 1-2 seconds b:bye do the math
4) Where on earth do you get this info about 0% defense theory? Link to the thread, please, or it doesn't exist. Besides, a skill that reduces defense to zero? Any commoner will know that its too OP a skill, needless to say that a GM will even make that happen.
Raving slash - sage
nuff said,
its funny how someone is bragging about sage skills and doesnt even understand them,
all better for us demons i guess ^.^Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
in the 6-7 seconds you spend on that combo a demon sin has now hit you 30-35 times. no amount of skills is going to beat that.
good info on the genie skills with attack level. if thats really true that is pretty amazing
+1
QFTAngel BEGONE!! b:angry
The Devil has my ear today b:pleased0 -
1 vs 1, Sage is better.
A 65% attack speed debuff is equivalent to a 65% attk speed increase since the time taken to attack is less relevant than the mutual number of hits each opponent makes in a given time (only in 1 vs 1 and in PVP. In TW this doesn't apply). Add to this the increased attack level and the permanent +20% crit damage, sage seems the way to go (for 1 vs 1 and PVP).
Also I'm not that impressed by the 10% hp debuff. Its a second class ST. We need to know if this debuff is applied before or after the damage done by the skill (if its before, as in ST, then thats pretty good).0 -
SaphireDemon - Lost City wrote: »CoTD -> Wolf emblem (compared to a demon WE your WE tickles)
-> rib strike ->Subsea Stike (15 sec)
Subsea sage lasts 8 sec, demon lasts 15 sec, get your own classes skills straight -.-
- Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > (grats your a squishy for 10 sec)
Inner Harmony ->
Power Dash ( 8 sec ) ->
Bramble Rage ->
Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
This skill combo would kill any Sin
... any smart sin would stun you by the time you rib stroke him
+1
QFT
since sage sins will likely use maze steps as well just wanted to point out throatcut is also better here, but you already knew that. pointing out more for the noob sins.
seal is actually why i consider mages harder to kill than most barbs.
for a barb magic damage pot > double spark > wolf emblem > tackling slash > tangling mire > maze steps > relentless courage pretty much destroys them. i end up hitting for ~900 at 78 on 9x barbs this way at 2.22 APS. in the 5 seconds relentless courage is up i've hit them for 9k damage. 5 more seconds later is another 7.5k
granted any decent 9x barb with a charm wont die to that since they should have 12k hp anyway. but many 7x 8x barbs (i'm still not 80 on this sin mind you) will die to it charmed or not.
BM's with a brain and smack will stop you too. most try to roar and fluster when it doesnt work though. wizards instinctively hit seal which makes me have to do the stunlock combo instead
veno's die to this as well but nix bleed ends up killing me after they die
archers just bend over to it. so do clerics and sins who don't throatcut.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »1 vs 1, Sage is better.
A 65% attack speed debuff is equivalent to a 65% attk speed increase since the time taken to attack is less relevant than the mutual number of hits each opponent makes in a given time (only in 1 vs 1 and in PVP. In TW this doesn't apply). Add to this the increased attack level and the permanent +20% crit damage, sage seems the way to go (for 1 vs 1 and PVP).
thats assuming youre fighting a demon BM or another sin that relies on reg hits. it wont do **** against skill speed0 -
Wolfyyy - Raging Tide wrote: »1) Sage Sins don't rely on attack speed. 10% Hp debuff can be purified by shadow escaping, or triple sparking. And what what does damage suppose to mean? o.O?
2) Since when will our defense be cut by 50%? Tangling mire reduces defense by percentage. There is no way in the world you can reduce someone's defense to 0%.
3) Provided that the attacks do not miss through evasion and focused mind. A Pure Dex pet with high level bramble with Crit + the amp from Subsea can easily deal 4-6k damage in a shot. You'll need to survive that 6 seconds ordeal that I've suggested in my earlier post before you can release the demon poweress.
4) Where on earth do you get this info about 0% defense theory? Link to the thread, please, or it doesn't exist. Besides, a skill that reduces defense to zero? Any commoner will know that its too OP a skill, needless to say that a GM will even make that happen.
damnit wolfy stphu! we dont want every sin on the server going sage. let them think demon is better and keep the good stuff for ourselves b:pleased0 -
SaphireDemon - Lost City wrote: »CoTD -> Wolf emblem (compared to a demon WE your WE tickles)
-> rib strike ->Subsea Stike (15 sec)
Subsea sage lasts 8 sec, demon lasts 15 sec, get your own classes skills straight -.-
- Raving Slash ( 10 sec ) > (grats your a squishy for 10 sec)
Inner Harmony ->
Power Dash ( 8 sec ) ->
Bramble Rage ->
Any Finishing skills. 6-7 Seconds Combo there so a demon sin will have to match up to the same time frame.
This skill combo would kill any Sin
... any smart sin would stun you by the time you rib stroke him
+1
QFT
You sound like you're saying sage sins are dumb and they wouldn't do mazing step like demon sins would do.
And any sins that knows how to chain cast in between skill would be able to skip any delay in casting time in between skills. Substrike + Power dash on chain casting mode will take an average of 3 seconds. Bramble and inner harmony are instant cast. I don't see how the combo can last more than 6 seconds. Furthermore, I think sage sins will be smart enough to use Raving slash only after their target has been disabled, thus allownig the next hit to be a painful, fatal one. The effects only last for 5 seconds, and the cooldown is pretty fast. A skillful sin will know how to pop in one when the time is right.
And I always see assassins as a specialist class, and not a fighter that is supposed to go head on with any other melee class. We're LA and we're considered a squishy. Like I say, our damage output is only as strong as how long we can stay alive. We have a set of disabling skills that are pretty neat. I seriously don't see why we should be tackling slashing someone in TW, then beginning melee'ing all the way, leaving yourself exposed to gank when you can simply 1 hit anyone else. I don't see many fist BM in TW.
I've fought with BMs, Sins of my level. Bms with hp ranging from 6-7k, sins an average of 5k. Subsea + Bramble can already reduce a BM from full hp to just 1/4, same goes to sin, since we have slightly higher amount of mag def - all this happening in an average of 5 seconds. Everyone is anticipating the dps power of a sin, but nobody ever wondered if its feasible enough.0 -
with these efects im asuming my head will explode the minute i must make my choice O_o
look at puncture wound
bleed time decreased? O_o0 -
raving slash + tangling mire will leave you with ~100 pdef (pdef left from your vit)
unless you're buffed. then you'll have a pdef = to the pdef you gained from the buff.
try a level 10 frenzy and look at your pdef. it's essentially 0. then get a cleric buff and try again
any sin that uses headhunt vs another sin with maze steps up failed. try throatcut next time
in the end sin vs sin will always be who strikes first.
there are BM's on LC with 17k HP. lets see a sage sin break through that
as a 78 sin i beat a charmed 11k HP 9x Barb using double spark, tangling mire, relentless courage, and glacial orb from apoth hitting him for 400-550 normal 950-1100 crit.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
who said a sage sin cant get 3.33-5 aps? Its possible making sage sin > demon sin.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
i'm split between sage and demon. sage sin sounds way more fc and overall party friendly while demon is more pvp and 1v1 pve oriented. i also like the sound of the sage shadow and dagger devotion better, but look at those stuns and rib strike! those are impossible to say no to! plus demon sins will be sparking about twice as fast as a demon fist bm would because of slipstream! b:infuriated0
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Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »who said a sage sin cant get 3.33-5 aps? Its possible making sage sin > demon sin.
to get that APS you cant use CoD. without CoD a sage sin is a sage fist BM. you arent killing anything but a charm.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Sage for Woneo
0
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