Squadding with a Sin

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, ignoring the troll for a moment...

Reducing the enemy attacks by half is great from the point of view of repairs and cleric strain - but if the cleric can keep up with the full-attack-rate healing then do you actually get more damage from freeing up the cleric that way than the reflected damage you lose?


New question:
What should I *expect* from you? The way I expect a barb to tank, a cleric to heal, a venomancer to bramble and amplify, a wizard and archer to nuke the hell out of things...
What should I be asking of an assassin? What, if you fail to do, can I use to conclude that you're not really playing at your best?

Expect Assassins to do their debuff(s), provide auxiliary tanking if the Barb/Blademaster dies and there is no other Barb/Blademaster to replace them, and provide good damage. Should the Cleric die, it is the job of the Assassin to try to gain aggro of the boss and lure it as far away from the squad as possible. We might die, but part of our job is to try to save to squad when possible, and if we can, Shadow Escape once the boss is out of range of the squad and will reset. So once you see that Cleric's HP hit zero, unless you are POSITIVE that your pet can tank fine with just your heals, stop attacking and let the Assassin gain aggro. While doing that, run in whatever direction you can to get far from where the Assassin will probably lead the boss, just to make it easier on them and help keep them from dying.

If you are on a boss without a strong AoE and the Assassin (as many do) has Tangling Mire, try to time your increased damage skills with theirs. As an example, whenever I use Tangling Mire, I also use Subsea strike and then get back my 2 sparks for a double spark so I can do extremely high damage (usually 8k criticals with normal attack). If you amplify damage at the same time as that, the boss will take an extremely large amount of damage over a short period of time. Using these skills combined with a Venomancer's amp skill, I have seen Rankar die within 45 seconds (had no magic DD's besides Venomancer) due to the extreme DPS each person could apply.

Expect Assassins to save the squishy classes whenever possible. Usually we can always teleport to the mob, so it shouldn't be a problem reaching them. So if you draw aggro and an Assassin heads straight towards the mob, run towards the Assassin and don't attack the mob after that unless you know exactly what skill they used. Sometimes I use Tackling Slash causing them to freeze, sometimes I use Deep Sting to sleep them. If you attack them while they are asleep, you cancel it and it just wasted our efforts.

If an Assassin is fighting two+ mobs all at once, and the rest of the squad is busy with their own, DON'T HELP! We have our Deep Sting, two stun skills, and Tackling Slash. An experienced Assassin will sleep one, freeze the other, move out of range and kill one of them. If they can't do that, they will Shadow Escape and reset the mobs. Attacking when they plan to SE will only draw aggro to you.

If you have the Assassin saying they will go kill a guardian in a BH, let them. Any build of Assassin should be able to easily take on any mob in a BH without problem. Our Blood Paint, spark/double spark, and Second Wind will keep us alive. If it doesn't, it is a failure of our own.

Basically, if you can't afford to help or don't think you can, then don't help the Assassin. We have more than enough ways to deal with multiple mobs in multiple situations, so don't worry about us too much unless you can do so safely. If the Assassin dies in such a situation, then it is their own fault. However, if you are having an Assassin do the job of a tank, treat it just as it is, a non tanking class tanking. We will need any help you can provide when doing the job of a tank. This means debuffs, heals, support, shared aggro (especially with your pet). I don't tank because I am good for tanking, I do it because it is necessary at the given time.

I am not going to say that every single Assassin out there will know all of these, but this is how our class works. You should always check to see if they are able to do these things before you start the instance so you know what to expect and how to work with it.

i leik appulz lul

Yarly - Harshlands wrote: »

I'll replay so maybe you can get a feel for the different opinions sins have about their abilities.



Just remember assassins can only take 1 mob at a time. If its 1 mob, we can handle much better than a bm even, but more than 1 and you will start to see our hp go down.

Hopefully you have a good sin in your squad and you can trust him to crowd control. The instant teleports (teleport stun), stuns, and immobilize skills can protect you better than any other class.

I prefer not to be brambled. I do not want agro in a squad as a sin.

Please dont think we are being showy during normal mobs, or lazy during boss fights. Its how we have to fight on normal or elite mobs. The bosses we are just trying our hardest not to steal agro. The barb literally needs to be 10 levels higher before we can spam sparks. And a demon fist bm wont hold agro on a 80 sin, its never worked for me no matter how many times they say it will.

I agree with all of it except only being able to take on one mob at a time. We can take more than one, it just takes more skill and quicker reactions than it does for one. See the fourth paragraph of my previous reply if you want.

thnx for the info almost rarely squad with sins ^^

I'm not quite sure if i agree with the "barb has to be 10 lvls higher so u can go full out"
I usually go full out from the start, sparking and critting. if the aggro switches to me i just reset with SE, after that repeating same procedure...works great so far.

PinkSuccubuS - Lost City wrote: »

ok cleric here and i for one wont EVER let a sin or anybody except barb or bm or wiz at some bosses TANK well psy can on mag bosses but SIN come on.

Fine u like flashy skill pure crith sure we all do BUT i prefer having u as dds and nothing MORE unless u show me u have some deccent epic gear wish makes u cash shopper and well then who cant tank why then so NOPE.

plz play ur class as it is intended l

LMAO
there r so many bosses what dds end to tank cuz party can't find barb. bms and venos cant hold agro from dds, if before it was only archer and wizzie then now psys and sins r really good agro stealers too. i on archer steal agro so much that i tend to tank every mob in cave, i prolly have higher repair bill than all bms together in squad. and when veno pulls a boss and bm sleeps then ranged dd will be the one who will start smack boss to save veno, after that bms just can't take agro away from me and if takes then only for short time then i just end up tanking boss too.

and i really hate when many venos/bms decide to tank bosses and will squad with dds and lowbie cleric or no cleric at all(if veno tanks). if u want a veno/bm tank then fill squad with more venos/bms or barbs w/e doesn't deal high dmg.
and seriously i have never seen sins/psys stealing agros from barbs. maybe i just have played with good barbs. mostly i hear barbs only saying that demon archers steals agro from them and they don't have problems with other classes. So im not sure should sins rly need to use bows everywere.

and ya i still get confused should i bramble sins, because i never bramble archers and i don't really like when my archer gets bramble too.

and to Yarly
how much mobs you can handle on yourself depends on cleric healing, charm+good cleric lets you hold 3-4 mobs(without +dmg, sacrificial asault effects), only charm might be 2 mobs, without charm 1 lol

i actually do and u knews as me that at high lvs CLERIC dont go on random partys.
wish mean we dont go unless its a barb tanking purely cos he is a tank from the start.

maybe its me but i will never admit a sin 2 say HEY i can tank so can SIN tank
cos it gives BAD impression 2 the community and noobie ppl wont learn and i will die less.

i play cleric cos cleric is needed so i expect athers do same and play cos of need over
fun cos BH TT FB is how we lv not pking .

my 2 cent

only that ur all giving bad impression on who tanks and dont tank.

sin is made 2 we a DD so please dont give ppl the impression a SIN can tank 2 new ppl
startinng out.

see i play my part in this i HEAL/RES/BUFF why can u do the same.

Im in LA and I can tank just fine O.o

Aclucious + dalanao said everything I was going to say. Good job you two.

-Flop Flop- I'm a fish

I'm surprised some of you have never heard of a sin having trouble with agro on a barb. Its not like once in a while or once a day, its every single mob and boss in every squad I've ever been in since 70 or so. Every sin in the bh's we do has the same problem.

higher accuracy, higher crit rate (above 60% at times with skill), higher damage, higher crit damage (buff), higher attack speed (besides fist), unending spark, and +30 att level skill (if you use the buff)

Why do you think sins can still win PQ by 3-4 times the score of second place and skip the first and last sections of the quest?

Iyasumi - Raging Tide wrote: »

what other advice can anyone give me regarding this?

Don't necro. This thread is from March of 2010.

Your answer is it really depends more on the sins hp pool and physical defenses than your heals. Rankar has a physical aoe and a pretty hard physical attack. The sin should go in with Focused Mind and keep Rib Strike up and he should be fine. Having a person in squad that's decent at interupting can prevent the aoe, but for most squads thats too much to ask for. Bosses attack at a rate of .66 aps or something so your heals will usually fill the tanks hp fully between attacks, but they'll sometimes combine an aoe followed right behind with a physical attack that can one-two knockout your tank.

It's been a while since I had to heal at level in BH51 but I used to just bb at Rankar. I've read some threads saying to bb, others saying don't bb. Part of the reason is bb can be knocked down and leave your tank with no stack of heals, another reason is its 15m range means the cleric has to be able to survive the physical aoe, where if the cleric was IHing they could heal outside of it. Personally, I like the damage reduction of the skill. Even if the tank could handle the aoe some classes need the bb to reduce the damage they recieve so they can survive and dd.

In the future, best to start your own thread rather than piggy backing on others.