Fist sin?
Killermate - Harshlands
Posts: 437 Arc User
Well, me just bored of waiting testing stuff out.
Last few days i been just combining dagger + fist to kill. Dagger for crucial disabling skills and all auto attacks done by fisting.
You may say, OMFG U nub. Dagger Mastery = 60% base dmg increase, but you can't deny atm all of our weapons end game sucks besides the non-implemented rank 6 dagger, or the nirvana one.
If you still doubt that Fist > Dagger (atm for practical purposes in PvP) here is a present for you.
Fist = Dagger with lower max attack.
In my case, 1.78 a/r faster than dagger which is a lot of DPS difference. But you can still use TT90~99 fists that may work well for PvP. I know not everyone has access to Lunar Claws or TT100 fist, but i guessing from this numbers that using fist may be effective as long as you are DDing while sparked.
Note: Even when you have Fist/Claws with no interval bonus, you still get -0.1 interval more interval than daggers.
That makes your a/r go from 2.22 to 2.86, meaning that if you use an attack speed skill like Relentless Courage you could get 4.0 attack per second using Fist/Claw instead of 2.86 with daggers.
Last few days i been just combining dagger + fist to kill. Dagger for crucial disabling skills and all auto attacks done by fisting.
You may say, OMFG U nub. Dagger Mastery = 60% base dmg increase, but you can't deny atm all of our weapons end game sucks besides the non-implemented rank 6 dagger, or the nirvana one.
If you still doubt that Fist > Dagger (atm for practical purposes in PvP) here is a present for you.
Fist = Dagger with lower max attack.
In my case, 1.78 a/r faster than dagger which is a lot of DPS difference. But you can still use TT90~99 fists that may work well for PvP. I know not everyone has access to Lunar Claws or TT100 fist, but i guessing from this numbers that using fist may be effective as long as you are DDing while sparked.
Note: Even when you have Fist/Claws with no interval bonus, you still get -0.1 interval more interval than daggers.
That makes your a/r go from 2.22 to 2.86, meaning that if you use an attack speed skill like Relentless Courage you could get 4.0 attack per second using Fist/Claw instead of 2.86 with daggers.
Post edited by Killermate - Harshlands on
0
Comments
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How much str above level do you need to wear the fists?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »Well, me just bored of waiting testing stuff out.
Last few days i been just combining dagger + fist to kill. Dagger for crucial disabling skills and all auto attacks done by fisting.
You may say, OMFG U nub. Dagger Mastery = 60% base dmg increase, but you can't deny atm all of our weapons end game sucks besides the non-implemented rank 6 dagger, or the nirvana one.
If you still doubt that Fist > Dagger (atm for practical purposes in PvP) here is a present for you.
Fist = Dagger with lower max attack.
In my case, 1.78 a/r faster than dagger which is a lot of DPS difference. But you can still use TT90~99 fists that may work well for PvP. I know not everyone has access to Lunar Claws or TT100 fist, but i guessing from this numbers that using fist may be effective as long as you are DDing while sparked.
Note: Even when you have Fist/Claws with no interval bonus, you still get -0.1 interval more interval than daggers.
That makes your a/r go from 2.22 to 2.86, meaning that if you use an attack speed skill like Relentless Courage you could get 4.0 attack per second using Fist/Claw instead of 2.86 with daggers.
nice to see the numbers. very usefull ty.
what would the damage on those daggers have been with the extra 40 points you had to put in str in dex be?
i'd imagine once the rank 6 daggers or if you got nirvana with int they would be better but until then that looks pretty niceI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
if you had enough cash you could try this : http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4a253e52b90b68a7 for me out please?0
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if you had enough cash you could try this : http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=4a253e52b90b68a7 for me out please?
hats ****, pants suck, feet suck, wrists ****, daggers are not ideal for someone spending so much. unless your going sage and skill spamming i guess....
even then i highly doubt there is no str req on that armor. you're gonna need 104 to wear itI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »hats ****, pants suck, feet suck, wrists ****, daggers are not ideal for someone spending so much. unless your going sage and skill spamming i guess....
even then i highly doubt there is no str req on that armor. you're gonna need 104 to wear it
guy, if u have ever used a rank item you would know it requires no stats, actually if u spend that much dagger only cost 1mil therefore free.
alternative hat for 54 str is: ?
edit : ofc its a sage set, else nirvana pants and stuff outshine it. regular hitting aint too bad in my opinion at this build also.0 -
guy, if u have ever used a rank item you would know it requires no stats, actually if u spend that much dagger only cost 1mil therefore free.
alternative hat for 54 str is: ?
edit : ofc its a sage set, else nirvana pants and stuff outshine it. regular hitting aint too bad in my opinion at this build also.
alright then. logged back in to check and your right my rank gear doesnt have req str.
for a sage sin using cod thats actually pretty good then.I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
There is something wrong with Sparked TT-90 dagger table since it supposed to be at least x2 in damage output as we can see in TT 100 fists damage is roughly x2,2 b:bye0
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There is something wrong with Sparked TT-90 dagger table since it supposed to be at least x2 in damage output as we can see in TT 100 fists damage is roughly x2,2 b:bye
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my table.
Dagger Mastery only affect the base dmg, meaning you don't get 260% of what you see as attack on your stats, but 60% of your base, then 200% of that same base.
Fist takes higher multiplier of dmg per spark simply for 2 reasons.
Higher lvl grade weapon (Higher grade = higher multiplier for base dmg)
Higher refines (My dagger is only +5)0 -
TT-90 Daggers sux!
Actualy, except for Nirvana, we don't have any nice daggers.
Once they implement "Messenger of Sages" daggers, this results will change dramatically.0 -
if u are that rich just buy some rapture crystal and go for nirvanna dagger, your screenshot just don't prove anything, who'd compare damage of tt90 and tt100...
Just go make screenshot with nirvanna dagger with same refine as tt 100 fist and with min strengh needed to wear your gear...
but yeah tt 100 fist give a good attack rate and do nice dammage, who didn't knew it b:shutup0 -
What do you think of this....b:laugh???
And
And
SMEXYYYYAAA0 -
lol he don't even wanna use those dagger later, and i hope he 'll keep changing those nirvanna fist xd stupid berserk then accuracy lol hopr he 'll get some better luck laterb:chuckle0
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Ya killer, deityofrain uses fist also, and he uses heavy armor, ive seen him in action, its scary as ****.
I would actually reccomend the fists only if you have the gear+money.0 -
b:chuckle fist sins are amazing, you should see Deity down 9x barbs like they're wearing AA... mind you, he glitches my screen when he attacks b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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fist sins=fist Archers.
and we already know how good fists are. archers wear them, BMs wear them, hell even some barbs wear them. so its no surprise a sin will catch on and finally wear them.... fists are useful for a large variety of classes. this is why i think all weapons should be class locked like most other MMOs so they can keep classes more unique, but thats just me.
but if your going to make a fair comparison i would just wait till i get one of the higher tier daggers like nirvana or rank daggers rather then comparing a higher tier fist to a lower tier dagger.0 -
*shrugs* I already have a toon that uses fists, don't really want another b:laughApparently its more difficult to milk a smurf than originally conceived..0
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lol why are you comparing hh90 daggers to 100 fist, at least use hh99 or frost daggers.
And what refines are those daggers and fist in ur SS @ OP
I've seen 100 archers with +10 fist and i'm quite sure the patk is around the one in ur SS (3.5k ish) and +10 frost daggers give around 6.5k-7.5k patk for a 100 sin.
I'm not saying fist is bad; just curious about how you go about comparing with an obvious big difference (90 wep to an hh100 for example)0 -
OK, either ppl are fail trolls or most of you don't know much about game mechanics.
Why do ppl keep insisting that me comparing grade 11 to grade 13 is a bad comparison?
It's not hard to do the math. b:embarrass Seriously, do anyone knows how spark works anymore?
And i already mentioned that all the end game daggers besides nirvana are **** which makes you make less sense.
P.S: If math it's that hard for you to make your own assumptions w/o having someone to show you everything every step of the way so that you can understand , +10 TT100 fist hitting at 4.0 a/r is still higher dmg than +10 Frost dagger hitting at 2.83 a/r
I'm done trying to explain this when i though i already did it on my first post. b:sleep0 -
G11 to G13 is a bad comparison cause you compared the best fists to the 3rd tier daggers (if you don't include nirvana daggers), no **** hh100 beat a flimsy 90 wep thats not even the best avaliable dagger. (and before you go misinterpreting this too; I'm not saying frost or hh99 daggers out DD hh100 fists)
Once again; you interpreted the question to your own wrong misconception.
No one said that daggers out DD fist @ same refine/gear. Just questioned your biased choice of comparison.0 -
just said that u gota compare nirvanna dagger with interval that hit at 3.33 attack rate with those fist either yes wow tt100 do more damage... don't make the guy interesting with your game mechanics stuff when u compare a crappy lvl 85 weapon with a lvl 100 good weapon...
your screenshot just show that this fist is better than those dagger, but that don't tell me that fist sin is better than dagger sin b:bye0 -
Sovy - Dreamweaver wrote: »just said that u gota compare nirvanna dagger with interval that hit at 3.33 attack rate with those fist either yes wow tt100 do more damage... don't make the guy interesting with your game mechanics stuff when u compare a crappy lvl 85 weapon with a lvl 100 good weapon...
your screenshot just show that this fist is better than those dagger, but that don't tell me that fist sin is better than dagger sin b:bye
Can you be more re tarded? My SS is just showing exactly what the OP is.
base dmg x spark bonus x a/r comparison which you seem to be too stupid to comprehend since you still QQing about which weapons i used to show the multiplier.0 -
Sovy - Dreamweaver wrote: »just said that u gota compare nirvanna dagger with interval that hit at 3.33 attack rate with those fist either yes wow tt100 do more damage... don't make the guy interesting with your game mechanics stuff when u compare a crappy lvl 85 weapon with a lvl 100 good weapon...
your screenshot just show that this fist is better than those dagger, but that don't tell me that fist sin is better than dagger sin b:bye
I understood about one word in this entire post.0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »OK, either ppl are fail trolls or most of you don't know much about game mechanics.
Why do ppl keep insisting that me comparing grade 11 to grade 13 is a bad comparison?
It's not hard to do the math. b:embarrass Seriously, do anyone knows how spark works anymore?
And i already mentioned that all the end game daggers besides nirvana are **** which makes you make less sense.
P.S: If math it's that hard for you to make your own assumptions w/o having someone to show you everything every step of the way so that you can understand , +10 TT100 fist hitting at 4.0 a/r is still higher dmg than +10 Frost dagger hitting at 2.83 a/r
I'm done trying to explain this when i though i already did it on my first post. b:sleep
its not about the grade. ur comparing whats arguably the best fist to daggers that is not the best. if u have to compare compare it to the best daggers sins have available to them.
when ppl are choosing a weapon they are mainly looking at the stats it give. and the stats the 100 fist give is NOT a fair comparison to stats the lvl 90 daggers give.
honestly how can u compare these stats: Holy: Has a chance to recover HP by 5%, and remove all debuffs.
Physical Attack +84
HP: +200
to these stats: Maximum Physical Attack +142
Interval Between Hits -0.1 seconds
Critical Hit Rate +4%
srsly the TT90 and even the gost cry thorns is not the best daggers sins have available to them.
if you want to make a fair comparison compare it to dream breaker or nirvana daggers seeing as those are the daggers sins will be using to get 5atk/sec anyway. there should be no reason a lvl 100 sin shouldnt be saving up to get nirvana anyway.0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »its not about the grade. ur comparing whats arguably the best fist to daggers that is not the best. if u have to compare compare it to the best daggers sins have available to them.
when ppl are choosing a weapon they are mainly looking at the stats it give. and the stats the 100 fist give is NOT a fair comparison to stats the lvl 90 daggers give.
honestly how can u compare these stats: Holy: Has a chance to recover HP by 5%, and remove all debuffs.
Physical Attack +84
HP: +200
to these stats: Maximum Physical Attack +142
Interval Between Hits -0.1 seconds
Critical Hit Rate +4%
srsly the TT90 and even the gost cry thorns is not the best daggers sins have available to them.
if you want to make a fair comparison compare it to dream breaker or nirvana daggers seeing as those are the daggers sins will be using to get 5atk/sec anyway. there should be no reason a lvl 100 sin shouldnt be saving up to get nirvana anyway.
currently the best daggers available to a sin ARE the 85 daggers. 90 are about the same -_-
if you're gonna say nirvana would be better, you could make better nirvana fists too.
this shows that unless you're hitting the cap 5 APS, fists will be betteras any dagger with -.1 int will still be -.1 int behind a fist with the same
the only thing i would have liked to see is how much that 40 dex would have changed the damage. but even then that damage difference would not make up for an extra hit every secondI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
theres still literally no point in comparing a tt90 to a tt100 weap
wait till the tt100 dagger are out (pretty soon) and compare again
until now you will have to compare tt90 fist/claw/w.e. with tt90 dagger otherwise it makes non sense, cuz even by just looking at the stats you will know that tt100 fists are better than tt90 dagger0 -
OFMG!!!!!!!!!!!! i give up.
Why ppl still QQing abotu TT90 vs Fist 100 comparison. What is so hard in calculating the freaking multiplier.
NO MATTER WHAT WEP YOU USE IT"S THE FREAKING SAME SCALE.
k now im done b:sweat
Im not gonna bother to explain that with crayons every step of the way.0 -
Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »OFMG!!!!!!!!!!!! i give up.
Why ppl still QQing abotu TT90 vs Fist 100 comparison. What is so hard in calculating the freaking multiplier.
NO MATTER WHAT WEP YOU USE IT"S THE FREAKING SAME SCALE.
k now im done b:sweat
Im not gonna bother to explain that with crayons every step of the way.
crayons are too high class
use finger paints please b:chuckleI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
I think that Killermate's point is based on the fact that CHI bursts are based on the weapon damage.
Knowing that, Dagger Devotion bonus in ATK is pretty low, when compared to the bonus from CHI burst.
Resuming: Don't matter the class that you play. If its Demon CHI Burst increases ATK Speed, then you should wear a Fist/Claw while sparked, cuz the bonus from passive skills will be complete left aside by your ATK Speed.0 -
Ok, lets compare a G13 to a G14.
Archers that have +12 R8 bows still use hh100 fists, and the fists hit a hell of alot more.
The R8 bow hits a hell of alot harder with 1 hit, but in 1 second 5 hits > 2 hits0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »currently the best daggers available to a sin ARE the 85 daggers. 90 are about the same -_-
if you're gonna say nirvana would be better, you could make better nirvana fists too.
this shows that unless you're hitting the cap 5 APS, fists will be betteras any dagger with -.1 int will still be -.1 int behind a fist with the same
the only thing i would have liked to see is how much that 40 dex would have changed the damage. but even then that damage difference would not make up for an extra hit every second
nirvana would be better because its what sins would use in order to get closer to 5 atk per second with other gear.
i mean u guys act as if sins cant close the gap in that -.1 interval fists have over daggers now.
but ill give benefit of the doubt and say fist would be better to use over daggers if u cant afford or dont have the time to invest any time or effort into building ur char.
at lvl 100 tho u should have the funds to atleast start getting good gear for ur char. its honestly not that hard0
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