PVP v PVE?
Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear
Posts: 802 Arc User
Looking to be educated here, and not flamed please. Because to me this is actually a serious question because I do not know. What is the primary difference between a PVP server in PWI and a PVE one beyond the obvious?
At what point do you become fair game to be killed?
If your able to be killed by anyone at any time, how do you ever manage to level as a new character when everyone around you is a much higher level, and killing you all the time? Seems to me leveling would be a major accomplishment. Unless I'm missing something here.
You can go into PK mode on the PVE servers, so how is this any different than being on a PVP server?
Anything else I may have missed? Feel free to answer please by all means!
I ask these questions because I have some friends who followed me to this game from another, and we all like to PVP. And I'm trying to make an educated decision on what sort of server I should steer them/us to. I've only played on HT here so far on PWI, so I really haven't an idea what it's like on our PVP servers.
At what point do you become fair game to be killed?
If your able to be killed by anyone at any time, how do you ever manage to level as a new character when everyone around you is a much higher level, and killing you all the time? Seems to me leveling would be a major accomplishment. Unless I'm missing something here.
You can go into PK mode on the PVE servers, so how is this any different than being on a PVP server?
Anything else I may have missed? Feel free to answer please by all means!
I ask these questions because I have some friends who followed me to this game from another, and we all like to PVP. And I'm trying to make an educated decision on what sort of server I should steer them/us to. I've only played on HT here so far on PWI, so I really haven't an idea what it's like on our PVP servers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You will never do anything in this world without courage.
It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
~Aristotle
You will never do anything in this world without courage.
It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
~Aristotle
Post edited by Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear on
0
Comments
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Hmm.. I'm not too sure how PvE servers work, but in PvP servers, your character's name will appear 'blue' until level 30. At level 30, your character name becomes 'white' and everyone who has a white name can kill and be killed by any other white name. There are however, "Safe zones".. Such as towns.
Relating to your question about leveling being impossible.. If you PK someone who doesn't attack back, or kill someone in one hit, your name turns "Red" for 3 hours. In general, people won't want to add an extra 3 hours for killing such a low level, because if you're red, you have very high chance of dropping items if killed, even fashion and aerogear can drop. You can however, kill a red name without any penalties.
Uhh.. I hope that answered your questions..0 -
Do you get any xp for killing ppl? And do you lose any xp when you get killed by a player?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You will never do anything in this world without courage.
It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
~Aristotle0 -
o_O No, you don't get experience killing people.
Difference between PvE and PvP servers: in PvP servers, step 28-29 in WQ is a PK war.●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
yea for us in a PvE server we get the option to tur on and off the PvP mode or PKb:kiss0
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But the only people who have PK mode enabled are all friends who can 1 shot anyone else trying to PK them, lawl.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.0 -
The only difference.. is PVP force you go into pk mode at lv30.
Pve server.. your free to be in pk mode (white/red/pink all color/race/sex except blue inoracist) or be in "carebear status" blue. You could be lv 100 with a blue name. I believe switching back n forth in pk/pve mode takes 1-2 days. Not sure and i think if you red.. u cant.. then again not sure..
If your a person that hates getting pk by higher people or camp.. go pve. otherwise pvp.. But to be honest doesnt really matter on pvp servers.. people dont actually pk anyways..... Its based on who bring more people the fastest.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
Leeching CQ salary since 09'
Many names, Common Faces.0 -
I have a similar question, but I need a more detailed advice
I've played Perfect world at the Russian Official Server and now my friend and I want to get to PWI.
I was a member of a very pacifist guild, but now I wanna have more PvP fun. So -
1) Is life on the PvP server as tough as I've been told? They told me one gets killed several times while finishing one lousy quest, so levelling-up is very very hard. Is it really so? Does one gets killed more by high-level PKs or by people of the same lvl?
2) Is life on the PvE server really quiet and peaceful? Do people have guild wars on the world map? (i mean apart from TW)
Thank you for your answers0 -
1. Playing one of the squishier classes (cleric) to around lvl 69, I can say that no, I haven't got pvped more than I expected it. The count should be around more than a dozen to a few dozen and up, but seriously, it's not that bad. It didn't stop my questing/lvling very much, although using powders and getting pked is a real pain in the **** Q__Q I've lost a few precious mana powders...but still! It's PvP server, so get used to it.
2. I played in PvE server up to lvl 36, and in my opinion PvP was a lot more fun/active. I don't know if this is just me, but I found that people tend to talk more in PvP and there's a lot more fun drama, compared to PvE where people I see are totally bent on leveling and killing xx mobs for xx exp and get to xx lvl and don't care what's going on around them. Broken bow bluff for example, usually in Lost City there's a convo going around randomly, but in Sanctuary it was always really quiet...somewhat creepy...but again, this could just be me, because I haven't gotten to a really high level in pve yet, so maybe I haven't experienced the better moments.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
no idea about what my IGN might be lol...
i'll put it on my sig once CB/OB Is out ^^0 -
idk about pve but pvp servers are fun......level wise there are spots u can wander around to pk....like at level 30 u dont hav any option but to run to town if u see a red name wandering around....in ur 40s u become somewhat daring and will always find bunch of pkers wandering around secret passage.....at 50 u can urself wander around secret passage and have fun lol........bak to the topic.......no its not very difficult to level at pvp server....(but i think u'll level slow coz u get involved urself in pk fights for fun)......all u need is a good faction with high levels to help u if some person get mad to kill u.........(normally that happens when u flirt with another person gf or troll them)[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=9267511001&dateline=1298980500[/SIGPIC] O Yay! I Killed that nix veno!0
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PVE servers are NOT PVE servers
Fact...
You can duel and still go in PK mode and TW in a "PVE" server, making "PVP" servers pointless overall because people are forced to go on PK mode while the "PVE" servers can choose. There is not much of a difference from any server at all... thats like saying in dreamweaver have better drop rates than harshlands.
The real thing about servers
Neutral server <-- so called PVE server
Force server <-- PVP server
But there is no real PVE server, otherwise, there would be no PK mode, no TW and might be no duels[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »PVE servers are NOT PVE servers
Fact...
You can duel and still go in PK mode and TW in a "PVE" server, making "PVP" servers pointless overall because people are forced to go on PK mode while the "PVE" servers can choose. There is not much of a difference from any server at all... thats like saying in dreamweaver have better drop rates than harshlands.
The real thing about servers
Neutral server <-- so called PVE server
Force server <-- PVP server
But there is no real PVE server, otherwise, there would be no PK mode, no TW and might be no duels
Getting a "choice" the PvP is what makes the PvE servers the way everyone says they are: quiet and boring where all people care about is "Oh I wonder what happens if I kill THIS mob?" Spoiler: the same thing that happens when you kill any other mob. Now that I clarified the universal PvE server question there is no point to playing on a PvE server b:cuteGuild History:
Unlimited [retired guild]
Conqueror [retired guild]
BloodLusT [FAIL OF EPIC PROPORTIONZ/retired guild]
RageQuit [retired guild]
Current Guild:
Wouldn't you like to know?
Current Status:
Been jumping rooftops in ADC for the past year and a half<3
Actively PvP'ing foramz style b:cute0 -
More action in PvP server. But I'm thinking about to go PvE server and PK everyone. I think, alot players will cry... ^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Most of the time you dont Get Pked on PVP servers unless you **** someone off.
if you are a low level like 40 or something.. people wont PK you unless u have a red name. (if you have a red name you are free game for everyone and everyone will attack u on sight because than you drop items :pleased)
so PVP servers arent servers where level 100s walk arould camping level 30s.. that is a myth.
For example i am level 69.. I only kill people 1) who **** up a BH usually a cleric being a noob..
2) red name
3) if you are in a faction that is on the KOS list of my faction (KOS meaning kill on sight.. this is earned when one faction pisses off another faction; that can happen in several ways)0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »PVE servers are NOT PVE servers
Fact...
You can duel and still go in PK mode and TW in a "PVE" server, making "PVP" servers pointless overall because people are forced to go on PK mode while the "PVE" servers can choose. There is not much of a difference from any server at all... thats like saying in dreamweaver have better drop rates than harshlands.
The real thing about servers
Neutral server <-- so called PVE server
Force server <-- PVP server
But there is no real PVE server, otherwise, there would be no PK mode, no TW and might be no duels
PVE servers are pointless.. they are boring all you do is kill mobs. Most people are pansy asses and will never switch to PK mode. the people who are in PK mode are all high levels who will one shot most people. PVP servers are more fun because anyone can attack anyone higher than level 30... thus if u want to PK u dont have to look every far because everyone is in PK mode. in a PVE server all u do is kill monsters.. which is boring as hell.0 -
Don't said as if you know what actually happen in PvE server. A lot of people in PvE server actually switch to PK mode, and many do it at level ~50. Level 50 is when you have a much fairer chance when you are attacked, so it make more sense to stay blue till then. Also, PvE server give you a choice. If I am tired/want to relax I can choose to disable PK mode and play the game the relaxing way, otherwise I can still be in PK mode. PK in PvE server are also a lot more civilised, you won't find people curse you when they are killed, you won't find griefer camping at one spot farming newbie, you won't find people stalk and repeatedly kill someone. I have turned on PK mode permanently since level 40 and I have been attacked and attacked quite often.0
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Genghis_Khan - Harshlands wrote: »PVE servers are pointless.. they are boring all you do is kill mobs. Most people are pansy asses and will never switch to PK mode. the people who are in PK mode are all high levels who will one shot most people. PVP servers are more fun because anyone can attack anyone higher than level 30... thus if u want to PK u dont have to look every far because everyone is in PK mode. in a PVE server all u do is kill monsters.. which is boring as hell.
so, to put it in few words:
- PVE servers - only high lvls PK and they kill every1 in 1 shot.
- PVP servers - are fun because u can kill lvls 30+
OMG, sounds soooooooo fun to be on PvP servers...that is from your point of view.
And yeah, you were saying on PvE you can only kill mobs? Well, since you're sooo excited about killing everyone over lvl 30 on PvPs I can actually see why you consider PvE boring.
And one hint, on PvE ppl do PvP and also kill mobs without being RPK by someone who has higher lvl but no skills and need to vent some frustration. You know, a while ago ppl needed to grind to get to high lvl. And the peace of mind that u will fight when you choose to is what attracts ppl to PvE.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hmm.. I'm not too sure how PvE servers work, but in PvP servers, your character's name will appear 'blue' until level 30. At level 30, your character name becomes 'white' and everyone who has a white name can kill and be killed by any other white name. There are however, "Safe zones".. Such as towns.
Relating to your question about leveling being impossible.. If you PK someone who doesn't attack back, or kill someone in one hit, your name turns "Red" for 3 hours. In general, people won't want to add an extra 3 hours for killing such a low level, because if you're red, you have very high chance of dropping items if killed, even fashion and aerogear can drop. You can however, kill a red name without any penalties.
Uhh.. I hope that answered your questions..
3 hours? wasnt it 2? or did they up it?I don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »so, to put it in few words:
- PVE servers - only high lvls PK and they kill every1 in 1 shot.
- PVP servers - are fun because u can kill lvls 30+
OMG, sounds soooooooo fun to be on PvP servers...that is from your point of view.
And yeah, you were saying on PvE you can only kill mobs? Well, since you're sooo excited about killing everyone over lvl 30 on PvPs I can actually see why you consider PvE boring.
And one hint, on PvE ppl do PvP and also kill mobs without being RPK by someone who has higher lvl but no skills and need to vent some frustration. You know, a while ago ppl needed to grind to get to high lvl. And the peace of mind that u will fight when you choose to is what attracts ppl to PvE.
i think what he meant is alot of people hide behing blue names until they get good gear,weapon and refines then they dare to switch in pvp mode...b4 that they are all blue named.btw i am pretty sure those high lvl pkers on PVE servers also kill lvl 30+ if they find any white named,probably dont even look at lvl.
alot of pkers on PVP server just atk any1 they see,even higher lvls then them.u guys act like pker gonna come stand next to u and check ur player info to see what lvl u are b4 he attacks..lol
if hes planning to do it,hes gonna do it regardless of lvl.
anyway,its 2hrs of red for each kill and u cant drop fashion ur wearing,only if u have it in ur inventory. wardrobe stone ftw0 -
From my personal experience, I'd say PVP servers are more fun than PVE servers. In PVE everyone who is in PK mode is expected to be pro at PKing otherwise why else would you enter PK mode?
In PVP, sure you can get annoyed sometimes at being RPK'd, but you learn from experience and you'll eventually know all the tricks there are to avoid being killed unexpectedly. PVP gives you surprises. That's just my taste. b:victory0 -
Genghis_Khan - Harshlands wrote: »PVE servers are pointless.. they are boring all you do is kill mobs. Most people are pansy asses and will never switch to PK mode. the people who are in PK mode are all high levels who will one shot most people. PVP servers are more fun because anyone can attack anyone higher than level 30... thus if u want to PK u dont have to look every far because everyone is in PK mode. in a PVE server all u do is kill monsters.. which is boring as hell.
"PVE" servers are better than PK servers, it doesn't require skill to PK someone. PVE, I seen people have a harder time PVEing than PVPing which is a fact. What is so special about PVP server? Oh you get a perma white name starting at lvl30, grats! b:laugh you are now ownage. Grats on having a white name, blue sucks because its cool to be white, pink and red and maybe purple? You can try going leeroy jenkins or camp lowbies, very fun. PVP is boring, tyvm, I had my share of PVP, all the things I hear is QQ and gloating, and wasted money (and I mean real money) on something that is so called meaningful. Even if I was on a PK server, I wouldn't even fight back. That don't give a b:fatb about pvp
I guess we "pansies" are so fail and will not be interested in wasting time on you "l33ts" (or wtf that is). Oh, I rather get some drops, carebear supreme myself and help others out, log. Talk with my GF after that, and not waste time on some idiot. I made that mistake already.
Also it doesn't matter what server your on, if your having fun, then it doesn't matter. But its not going to change about people's play styles. "oh your on a PVE server, your fail" how about you pay attention to what your doing?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Genghis_Khan - Harshlands wrote: »
so PVP servers arent servers where level 100s walk arould camping level 30s.. that is a myth.
its not a myth it did happen i remember before BH and all that getting camped by zinova,Ascii and others in SP (cant remember all sometimes there were too many XD)b:chuckle yeah theyre werent lvl 100 but were way higher than me thats for sure lol wish i knew how to SS back then b:surrender Highers killing lowbies will always be around as it has always been0 -
Its true really i can make a couples quest without having someone pking me, i burned gold charms hp in 2 days really i got sick of it quited....0
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meh, im my opinion the difference between PVP servers and PVE servers is that in PVP servers guilds and friends in general are much more cooridinated and better equipped. Alottt of people fight in PVP server so they are trying to get their gear as best as they can. Thus, there are also alot more mats/items in AH that i havnt seen as frequently in PVE server AH. So PVP server will have better geared people over-all. Also, People are going to be closer. In PVE server its gets boring really quick because alottt of people never pk. Its like.....hey lets go kill this mob...even thoguh ive killed him like 30 times before already. But in PVP servers...im always hanging out with my friends because we have eaxh others backs and if a fight starts i know i can count on them to help me out and reduce my charm tick, pot use, genie fuel use, etc. Your friends save you money....nothing quite like that on a PVE server from my experience. Also, no PVP server is not just a lot of n00bs getting killed by lvl 100's. Im not saying it never happens but its definitaslly not the norm. With frost amd BH and MQ and oracles (tokens) out now lvling has become super fast. There are wayyyy more higher lvls than lower lvls in my server from what ive seen so far. So most of the time fights break out between more evenly lvld players than max/lowest lvl players. Plus, just from my own personl taste...PVP servers are better sinply because if someone is pissing you off you can destroy them and possibly take millions upon million worth of items from them. And when they QQ to you its hilarious.0
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Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »"PVE" servers are better than PK servers, it doesn't require skill to PK someone. PVE, I seen people have a harder time PVEing than PVPing which is a fact. What is so special about PVP server? Oh you get a perma white name starting at lvl30, grats! b:laugh you are now ownage. Grats on having a white name, blue sucks because its cool to be white, pink and red and maybe purple? You can try going leeroy jenkins or camp lowbies, very fun. PVP is boring, tyvm, I had my share of PVP, all the things I hear is QQ and gloating, and wasted money (and I mean real money) on something that is so called meaningful. Even if I was on a PK server, I wouldn't even fight back. That don't give a b:fatb about pvp
I guess we "pansies" are so fail and will not be interested in wasting time on you "l33ts" (or wtf that is). Oh, I rather get some drops, carebear supreme myself and help others out, log. Talk with my GF after that, and not waste time on some idiot. I made that mistake already.
Also it doesn't matter what server your on, if your having fun, then it doesn't matter. But its not going to change about people's play styles. "oh your on a PVE server, your fail" how about you pay attention to what your doing?
not sure if you ever tried to PVP past lvl 3x... pvp gets a lot more fun at 9x+...anyways.....but when your in masss pvp or 1v1 pvp with someone even to you its a ton more fun then PVE agaisnt a pre-programmed mob. thats my opinion anyways.....0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »"PVE" servers are better than PK servers, it doesn't require skill to PK someone. PVE, I seen people have a harder time PVEing than PVPing which is a fact. What is so special about PVP server? Oh you get a perma white name starting at lvl30, grats! b:laugh you are now ownage. Grats on having a white name, blue sucks because its cool to be white, pink and red and maybe purple? You can try going leeroy jenkins or camp lowbies, very fun. PVP is boring, tyvm, I had my share of PVP, all the things I hear is QQ and gloating, and wasted money (and I mean real money) on something that is so called meaningful. Even if I was on a PK server, I wouldn't even fight back. That don't give a b:fatb about pvp
Its not just PvP servers it PvE servers as well, many people with no lives just wasting money on pixels. Also yes, you killed alot at lvl 3x (like my lvl 3x BM alt who got Pked about 6-7 when he was at lvl 30-34) but not every PvPer is not like that. If PvP so boring wouldn't no one be on those servers? Also if every server became a PvE there will be people QQing about what the point of having a PvP mode when nobody is going to be in PvP mode untill 9x.
I guess we "pansies" are so fail and will not be interested in wasting time on you "l33ts" (or wtf that is). Oh, I rather get some drops, carebear supreme myself and help others out, log. Talk with my GF after that, and not waste time on some idiot. I made that mistake already.
That's funny I seen many people on PvP servers that are helpful (Including myself), and are not idiots. (Unless you use oracles / Hyper stones all the time and you won't how to play your class right.)
Also it doesn't matter what server your on, if your having fun, then it doesn't matter. But its not going to change about people's play styles. "oh your on a PVE server, your fail" how about you pay attention to what your doing?
^ I agree with this 100% it doesn't matter what server you on even on a PvP sever because of the fact is that almost everyone on a PvP server is a gloating, newbie 3x killing jerk. It depends on what people you meet and just ignore the fail PvPers until you reach a higher lvl. That's what I did and now i'm lvl 7x.
All i'm trying to say is that PvP server are not bad, because QQing about being Pked is not going to do anything. There wiil always be QQ and you just have to learn to deal with it.
(EDIT: Fix some errors.)
(EDIT II: What I said was no flame ijs.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
✰The Nostradamus of PWI ✰
★ A not so Retired Veteran of PWI ★
✰ ~SilverCleric~ ✰0 -
On the contrary, my first character was a blademaster and i dreaded lvl 30, eventually took the plunge. Sure enough, getting PK'd left right and centre by higher lvl red names who must have had some "inadequacy" problems. Silver Pool and Hidden Orchid were some of the worst places. Unless you fly as high as you can, you get PK'd a few times per hour at least, really annoying during quest. I started on PVP because of ping, wish i could swap but have too many friends on server, they don't like high lvl PK'rs either.0
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Ahh, PvE is for nabs? So that's why I suck so bad...Damn you TT70HA+4/4sock-flawless hp and calamity axes... I so can't 2 hit a 85+ veno lololol
Seriously, who cares anymore?
It's all about preference, if I pk someone, they've made the choice to accept the consequences of being a white name, so they can't moan or QQ when it happens... Unlike PvP when they can't help going PK so they b***h and RQ the server...
Necro post res'd by Ubi. ;D0 -
I have a similar question, but I need a more detailed advice
I've played Perfect world at the Russian Official Server and now my friend and I want to get to PWI.
I was a member of a very pacifist guild, but now I wanna have more PvP fun. So -
1) Is life on the PvP server as tough as I've been told? They told me one gets killed several times while finishing one lousy quest, so levelling-up is very very hard. Is it really so? Does one gets killed more by high-level PKs or by people of the same lvl?
2) Is life on the PvE server really quiet and peaceful? Do people have guild wars on the world map? (i mean apart from TW)
Thank you for your answers
It can be hard but if you tend to squad up, pkers tend to avoid larger numbers of people since this lessens their chance of surival.
I find the PVP rather thrilling... and if I am farming and someone comes up to kill steal - i can promptly teach them how that might not be a good idea by spiking them one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »Looking to be educated here, and not flamed please. Because to me this is actually a serious question because I do not know. What is the primary difference between a PVP server in PWI and a PVE one beyond the obvious?
At what point do you become fair game to be killed?
If your able to be killed by anyone at any time, how do you ever manage to level as a new character when everyone around you is a much higher level, and killing you all the time? Seems to me leveling would be a major accomplishment. Unless I'm missing something here.
You can go into PK mode on the PVE servers, so how is this any different than being on a PVP server?
Anything else I may have missed? Feel free to answer please by all means!
I ask these questions because I have some friends who followed me to this game from another, and we all like to PVP. And I'm trying to make an educated decision on what sort of server I should steer them/us to. I've only played on HT here so far on PWI, so I really haven't an idea what it's like on our PVP servers.
Im guessing you are not very intelingent person to figure that most of you gameplay is inside dungeons and not out of them.....
I had benn on both servers and yes pve is good on low lvl due to the fact you will not get pked and camped by a noob sin who thinks he is almighty cause he can kill low lvls arcanes....
But on my 59 cleric i done all quests got pked once while i was afk and 4 times yesterday by a sin, wt i do well i just go to my 101 sin and kill that person....
Usually the lowbies pkers suck hard, they do it cause they cant kill good end game players or cash shoppers cause they suck pretty hard....
Anyway on average no one quests anymore i practilly squad with ppl cause theres no one around my quests(even on a crowded server like mine).
Again i lleft here for 6 moths to get on a pve server when i got to end game i realised pve servers suck theres like nothing to do and why gear up if there absolutelly no pvp around and when rare acasions is we fight always the same names, the same persons(the ones who actually pvp).
Here its diferent i kill and get killed by ppl i never heard, and yes sometimes its suck being low lvl and get one shot by a 100 but its part of the game we just accepted it..0 -
pvp for those who don't mind pking or getting pked. pve for carebears. end of story.b:byeDo you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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