Demon Or Sage?

_TheFallen_ - Raging Tide · March 2010

b:puzzledi know i am far from that but demon or sage is better for barb????????

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Its your choice bro...

Both have good points... Its your choice, don't take opinion of someone else without trying them yourself.

Barbs that goes Demon balances a lot of their cons.
Barbs that goes Sage enhances their pros.

Look on the skill books from PWI wiki and ectacomb, and the threads about sage and demon, answers are there already.

On forums they say sage is PVE based, and demons are PVP (or should I say PK) based.

I believe sage barbs are by far the best barbs in my book though.

Although demon barbs fix a lot of flaws with accuracy and low spike damage without Armageddon (suicidal skill xD). But sage barbs relieve with 10 MP per second recovered from feral regeneration passive, which is a pure blessing (10.5 per second).

P.S Please use "Search" next time b:thanks

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

suggestion: dont use above poster's advice. he hasnt had a character over level 51. he reads something on ecatomb and believes he knows everything.

the thing with demon and sage is, demon relies on raw power, giving them adverse effects in their skills for sheer damage. examples can be seen in:

beastial onslaught: raise critical rate to 35% for 6s
true form: enables full damage in tiger
armageddon: does 10% more damage
str of the titans: 5% crit bonus for 1min

sage only adds small boosts to your already decent skills.

examples:
true form: 40% more hp
str of the titans: 50% more attack
shapeshift intensify: 120% more def

sure these may all sound nice, but in my opinion, the added effect that demon has make it a much more viable tank.

take a look at demon roar (100% damage reflect for 8s), flesh ream (reduced cool down), and true form (the full damage helps ALOT!)

then there is the difference between sparks, should you ever be using them rather than using 2x moves.
demon: 25% attack speed boost
sage: 25% damage reduction

attack speed boost wins hands down for a DD situation.

to sum it up:
demon: well rounded for PVE and PVP
sage: mostly for carebears and catapult pullers in TW.

CornHilario - Heavens Tear · March 2010

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

the thing with demon and sage is, demon relies on raw power, giving them adverse effects in their skills for sheer damage.

i LOVE the way you just phrased that, waffles.

going demon BTW

Traz - Dreamweaver · March 2010

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

suggestion: dont use above poster's advice. he hasnt had a character over level 51. he reads something on ecatomb and believes he knows everything.

the thing with demon and sage is, demon relies on raw power, giving them adverse effects in their skills for sheer damage. examples can be seen in:

beastial onslaught: raise critical rate to 35% for 6s
true form: enables full damage in tiger
armageddon: does 10% more damage
str of the titans: 5% crit bonus for 1min

sage only adds small boosts to your already decent skills.

examples:
true form: 40% more hp
str of the titans: 50% more attack
shapeshift intensify: 120% more def

sure these may all sound nice, but in my opinion, the added effect that demon has make it a much more viable tank.

take a look at demon roar (100% damage reflect for 8s), flesh ream (reduced cool down), and true form (the full damage helps ALOT!)

then there is the difference between sparks, should you ever be using them rather than using 2x moves.
demon: 25% attack speed boost
sage: 25% damage reduction

attack speed boost wins hands down for a DD situation.

to sum it up:
demon: well rounded for PVE and PVP
sage: mostly for carebears and catapult pullers in TW.

So you currently have a demon barb?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

my brother does, and ive spent a fair amount of playtime on it, some of the experience comes from the DD standpoint too, whereas the full damage + faster flesh ream etc help my demon archer hold back on the barbarian alot better than some sages ive had the misfortune of partying.

not saying that im gung-ho with my arrows, its quite the opposite really. its just obnoxious that even after hiatus of attack, the barb fails to hold aggro.

i know there are factors such as inexperienced oracler/hyper levelers, etc, but these sage barbarians on sanctuary 9 times out of 10, are just plain imbeciles.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Don't listen to waffle chan, she have no idea what she is talking about and she is really biased and she is the one who think she knows everything... Just look at the skill books ingame, PWI wiki and ectacomb, see how they fit you. Also other players

She answered my thread a little bit, apparently she did not say any details about sage barbs because she never even bother looking at sage.

Once again, it suits your playstyle, if you want to enhance pros, sage is suitable. If you want to take away your cons, go demon. Because barbs are mainly tankers, as a defensive class. Look at the books ingame, then you decide.

Traz - Dreamweaver · March 2010

I'd agree with Yulk. Talk to other barbs both sage and demon along with researching what each skill gives you as demon vs sage and you make the call. Listening to biased opinions from people (while some give objective information) mainly just gets you into a no this one is better you're stupid, no this one is better you're a moron type thing without good points of view from both sides.

I can tell you I went sage because I tank on a PVE server and my faction needs cata barbs so that's what I go with,

PS You do see more demon barbs on PvP servers for obvious reasons, so the level of PvP you do should factor into your choice as well.

Akai_Akuma - Heavens Tear · March 2010

well, i went demon (totally agree with WaffleChan). Sage is very nice, more hp, more armor etc... but it doesnt make you a better barb. Our HP is already high enough. when im tanking, i never even drop below 80%. And well, about the armor, it only gives you 1-2% more dmg reduction. If you look at demon instead, you get 50% more weap att (for me it added like 20% to my att) and its really noticable! I also got my hands on demon FR, now cooldown is 2.5s instead of 3.0. This makes you able to cast it once every 3 hits (on lvl 10 its once every 4 hits). And if you ever want to kill something quickly, you got a dang nice spark!

I cant talk about the other skills yet, since i dont have any xD but i would even go demon if this was all id ever get xD

GO DEMON

b:victory

EmptyWords - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Another post Sage or Demon?? It's the 3rd only this week.. b:surrender

Btw, totally agree with Yulk. He tolds the only TRUE answer on this question..

"check skill and decide by yourself"

And WaffleChan, when u'll roll a 89 barb we can talk about your demons ideas. But atm it's better if u read only there b:chuckle

b:bye

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

EmptyWords - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Another post Sage or Demon?? It's the 3rd only this week.. b:surrender

Btw, totally agree with Yulk. He tolds the only TRUE answer on this question..

"check skill and decide by yourself"

And WaffleChan, when u'll roll a 89 barb we can talk about your demons ideas. But atm it's better if u read only there b:chuckle

b:bye

just a quick note, yulk has admitted to never having a character past level 51. how the hell would he know anything about any sage or demon class. research his posts and see the fallacy he argued with about sage wizards and archers a few weeks back...

#1 this entire situation is subjective, in which i gave a perfectly valid argument to support my opinion. here's the thing, unless its COMPLETELY inaccurate, (like saying arcane bow barb out tanks your build) there really isnt such thing as a wrong opinion. yulk's first post was rather misleading.

#2 he didnt give an answer whatsoever in his second post, twas just a display of malcontent towards myself, along with an open ended answer that doesnt answer anything.

if anything, a sage should do exactly what i did, and present why they believe their branch is the superior choice in their OPINION. the same goes for traz's post, its basically just telling him to repeat what the original poster is doing here... asking for other's imputs on why they believe one is more superior than the other. its pointless.

if you'd care to try again, be my guest, ill always be glad to give an intelligible response back to even the most uncomprehensible ditherings such as yulk's famous posts.

_TheFallen_ - Raging Tide · March 2010

i think i am not going to choise yet but i have a little preference for demon

ZoanoAce - Lost City · March 2010

Akai_Akuma - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well, i went demon (totally agree with WaffleChan). Sage is very nice, more hp, more armor etc... but it doesnt make you a better barb. Our HP is already high enough. when im tanking, i never even drop below 80%. And well, about the armor, it only gives you 1-2% more dmg reduction. If you look at demon instead, you get 50% more weap att (for me it added like 20% to my att) and its really noticable! I also got my hands on demon FR, now cooldown is 2.5s instead of 3.0. This makes you able to cast it once every 3 hits (on lvl 10 its once every 4 hits). And if you ever want to kill something quickly, you got a dang nice spark!

I cant talk about the other skills yet, since i dont have any xD but i would even go demon if this was all id ever get xD

GO DEMON b:victory

Ok...yet another biased post that only focuses on 1 side of the spectrum without testing the other... 1)the 120% bonus defense for Sage SSI is actually at least 3% damage reduction, based on the pwi calculator which may not make it any better...but always saying 1-2% gets to me and shows a bit of ignorance and 2)you dont get 50% more weap att with Demon TF, as accodring to the skill, there is no dmg reduction from your humanoid weap att, though it means the same thing but at least mention it how the skill description says it =\ can be misleading somewhat
All else is agreeable, but don't just mention 1/2 of the story to make demon look like the overall victor please.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

just a quick note, yulk has admitted to never having a character past level 51. how the hell would he know anything about any sage or demon class. research his posts and see the fallacy he argued with about sage wizards and archers a few weeks back...

He has a lvl 55 Barbb:surrender

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

#1 this entire situation is subjective, in which i gave a perfectly valid argument to support my opinion. here's the thing, unless its COMPLETELY inaccurate, (like saying arcane bow barb out tanks your build) there really isnt such thing as a wrong opinion. yulk's first post was rather misleading.

Well to me, he at least stated the basic reasons for Barbs going either path, and he was just giving examples of what he likes about Sage path...what was the misleading part? O.o

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

#2 he didnt give an answer whatsoever in his second post, twas just a display of malcontent towards myself, along with an open ended answer that doesnt answer anything.

lol, no comment 'cos that was a reply to you xD

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

if anything, a sage should do exactly what i did, and present why they believe their branch is the superior choice in their OPINION. the same goes for traz's post, its basically just telling him to repeat what the original poster is doing here... asking for other's imputs on why they believe one is more superior than the other. its pointless.

Ok, I'm not a Sage yet, but following your suggestion, imho, the Sage branch isn't a "superior" path, just more favourable and ideal with what I do most and best (PvE) and how I carry about doing so. I will side with you with saying Demon Barbs would probably have the better Tank-worthy skills, with more dmg output, frequent crits and and a spammable FR, while having the usual increased Tiger HP increase and 80% dmg reduction which is still a decent step up from 60%. But I wouldn't deem it "more superior" just based on this context alone, imo.b:bye

With reference to what Traz mention, he's right about not just accepting biased opinions because it doesn't help the interested person(s) and just ends up being a dead-end flame war. IMHO, I accept both paths as being what Barbs are, without saying 1 is better than the other, as it all comes down to how you make use of the path you choose, hence they are basically balanced.
There are many other threads which actually have acceptable Pro's and Con's about each path which make reasonable comparisons in terms of celestial skill for the 2 paths. Overall, it all comes down to what you know you enjoy/will enjoy most out of being a Barbarian and what you would want to keep you interested till endgame lvls (if you seriously plan to get there

)

Boozer - Lost City · March 2010

_TheFallen_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

b:puzzledi know i am far from that but demon or sage is better for barb????????

If you wanna have more hp in tiger and be pure tank, pull cata in TW and be really hard to kill go sage. Also sage has the best party buffs.

If you wanna own in pvp and pk, but still be good for tanking and pve-related go demon.

Sage is not as good as it use to be due to genies and event gear giving massive hp and def. Not many go sage anymore tbh. Most of the pros for sage barb, extra chi and defense, you can get from genies now so its kinda unfair.

Actually so many high lvl sage barbs i know dont play anymore. They got bored endgame of only being tank and lacking good pvp skills b:cry.

Alltho next big patch i heard they will let people change culti or sage/demon skills will be available for both cultis. Its pretty vague exactly how they're doing it and im not good with Chinese lol.

But developers know sage/demon its a bit unbalanced atm and they are trying to make it more equal.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Wafflechan, I am better at barbs than you, end of story and you have a LVL91 main, FAIL. Remember you said demon barbs are wonderful arggo holders? First of all, a barb should NOT lose arggro when he is tanking. Damage reduction or not, they are MEANT to keep arggo from the beginning with flesh ream and devour. You fail harder.

Last time about my highest level character's level, I choose NOT to level at this time, leveling became a joke too, so why should I care about leveling NOW? and ZoanoAce is right, LVL55 barb I have, L2 read. If you just think only about Armageddon, Strength of the titan's mini crit buff and True form damage penalty damage gone alone. Being biased about sage / demon is pure BS coming out of you.

You also talk about how inaccurate I was with "true + human form mix while grinding" You can't even DD without being demon because you don't try different skill chains. Devour decreases MORE P.DEF than penatrate armor. At my LVL I upgraded all skills, LVL6 devour that decreases 38% P.DEF and attack LVL by 6 which is by far better than my LVL7 penatrate armor that decreases 24% P.DEF. Thats a huge difference there. + shifting forms is not all that costly, it only costs what? 20 mana each level of true form shifting? Once again you fail at doing that. I bet you don't even open up with defense debuff, no wonder why you kill slow.

If you think sage won't be able to PVP or DD then you still fail. Not every barb would be VIT barbs. Also I saw a sage barb PKed a same LVL BM WITHOUT relying on Armageddon.

Genies may have made sage seem useless in PVP, but there is such thing as mana drain (which I TRIED and it worked while I was on my old archer), chi drain. There is skills that sages can use too. Stop judging the sages because you never tried them yourself.

Let the OP choose what he wants to choose, if he wants to go demon or sage, don't even bother dictating him. That is his choice, NOT yours

Its the devs fault for not making every sage / demons skill balanced so that biased idiots like you won't have anything to flame on just because of a few sage / demon skills better than the counterparts. I bet you can't even tank with your barb either wafflefail. Kthxbai

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

WHOLE HELL OF ALOT OF ASININE GARBAGE THAT IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO THE THREAD LOL.

im just gunna say lol.

you automatically failed the instant you said:

I am better at barbs than you, end of story
your barbarian is 55, you know nothing, do exactly what that barb said earlier 'go roll an 89+ one, then come back.' you never present valid arguments, and expecting you to is like expecting satan to go ice skating tomorrow with his buddies belial and legion.

TigerLily - Lost City · March 2010

_TheFallen_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

b:puzzledi know i am far from that but demon or sage is better for barb????????

Just dont go sage if you're planning on doing pvp b:bye

Most players tends to get extremely bored with pve 100+ and than you be pretty damn sad if you rolled a sage barb.

Demon gets 35% crit boost from onslaught, they get more 2% crit from passive, 5% crit from strength buff, than (depending on gear/build) another 10-20% base crit and than zerk on top of that. Its pretty much 80-100% chance of killing someone unless you miss on Armageddon.

Armageddon does 10% extra damage to as if the crazy crit would not be OP enough b:shocked

I really dont get why any barb would go sage at 89 tbh, unless its an alt that you're just using for tanking and for buffs. I guess of you only wanna pve, do TW and be really hard to kill, its a very good choice. But most players gets bored only doing pve endgame.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

onslaught and titans dont stack FYI

TigerLily - Lost City · March 2010

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

onslaught and titans dont stack FYI

Im happy to hear that it doesn't >.<

Than demon barbs only have like a 75-80% chance of 1 shooting anyone with Armageddon ( my own calculation assuming that zerc procs 20% and they're packed with event ****) b:surrender.

Guessing it also wont stack with leaf dance or other crit buffs?

Makes me feel a bit more safe when i see a demon beast around.

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

im just gunna say lol.

you automatically failed the instant you said:

I am better at barbs than you, end of story
your barbarian is 55, you know nothing, do exactly what that barb said earlier 'go roll an 89+ one, then come back.' you never present valid arguments, and expecting you to is like expecting satan to go ice skating tomorrow with his buddies belial and legion.

Just because my barbarian is 55, WHICH IS NOT LEVELING NOW. Doesn't mean I am not more experienced with barbs more than your level 65 barb.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

in the few levels ive spent on my 65 barbarian ive noticed questing is dirt slow in tiger, but i save a ton on potions, whereas if im in human, sure i spare half the time, but cost myself a small penny in life powders and or pots.

precariously, it comes to each users individual preference and budget. to deem one more efffective than another based on opinion of fact rather than hard fact itself is just plain absurd.

You said it yourself. But you don't use both of them together. I clearly stated the fact that you kill slow and / or blow pots out of your behind just to grind. INB4FAILURE

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · March 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just because my barbarian is 55, WHICH IS NOT LEVELING NOW. Doesn't mean I am not more experienced with barbs more than your level 65 barb.

You said it yourself. But you don't use both of them together. I clearly stated the fact that you kill slow and / or blow pots out of your behind just to grind. INB4FAILURE

saywhatnow?
and/or references mean i use one, the other, or both in conjunction. failure occured in your putting words in peoples mouths yet again.

for one second, just LOOK at your mp chain.

Tiger form > Devour > flesh ream > human form > garrote >

60 mp + 70mp + 43 mp + 60 mp + 38 mp + whatever garbage you put after this
this alone is already 271 mp just for one mob! that is a freakin waste of charm/mp pots. no one kills like this but you, because its INEFFICIENT. and thats if you have these up to date by level 60.

Barbs that goes Demon balances a lot of their cons.
Barbs that goes Sage enhances their pros.

barbarians dont really have any cons that 'demon fixes'

your advice is MISLEADING. you are not better than ANYONE.

follow your own damn advice!

Both have good points... Its your choice, don't take opinion of someone else without trying them yourself.

you have not tried either, you are nothing but misleading, and incorrect!

i also stated i play a demon barb thats related to me. you magically forgot to mention it as well. that qualifies as trying one.

youve done nothing to

A. show im inexperienced
B. prove your statements, because most of them are made up

go back to debate school! you do not know how to argue.

brownflamer · March 2010

Don't ask people whether you should go demon/sage

all you have to do is ask people(demon/sage) to describe their playstyle to you....and how choosing their culti had influenced itb:victory

P.S and check Ecatomb(which you prolly already did) b:laugh

Traz - Dreamweaver · March 2010

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

I really dont get why any barb would go sage at 89 tbh, unless its an alt that you're just using for tanking and for buffs. I guess of you only wanna pve, do TW and be really hard to kill, its a very good choice. But most players gets bored only doing pve endgame.

Because we want to tank?.....

Personally I liked the fact that I have lots more HP in tiger form, and the reduction of 1/2 in WEAPON damage in tiger form doesn't bother me when keeping aggro. Most of you keep saying 1/2 damage in tiger form, which isn't true it's weapon damage which can confusing people deciding and is misleading.

If everyone thinks that just having that extra half of weapon damage in tiger is the only thing that's making a barb keep aggro you guys are sorely mistaken. It takes a whole lot more to keep aggro and make sure things are taken care of then some silly 1/2 weapon damage. Will it help sure but there are many other factors that outweigh that 1/2 weapon damage when tanking. I see to many people keying on this as the only way a barb can keep aggro at upper levels.

Judging on skills from MY point of view I like the sure extra damage we get from titan, sure hp we get from inspiration and true form, big jump in physical defense from intensity, then have all these crit skills for 5-10 seconds. I also like the Li's skill to instantly gain 50 chi which you don't get when you go demon. Plus when looking over a lot of skills we have quite a few that give extra damage over the demon versions that mainly get less cooldown.

On another personal note you can PvP and be sage just fine if you know what you're doing and play to your strengths. Everyone makes it seem like you HAVE to be demon to PvP which isn't true. It's kind of tiresome to see this comment after awhile.

Just my thoughts on the whole thing so cheers either way you decide

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

Wafflechan your the one misleading saying sages fail and for carebears. But you probably got jealous of a sage archer that done better than you and then you start flaming about people who go sage. Again, I have more experience on barbs than YOU do, which I play as barb better than you, you might play archer better than I do, but you don't know how to play your barb and a higher LVLed barb than me. Once again, sage and demon ARE balanced from the skill books and the players I seen. Too much MP for one mob... yeah LOL. In AOE, its about the same amount too b:bye . At my LVL I could just be in true form... devour > flesh ream > human form > garrote > beastial onslaught and just auto attack ONE mob while stacked bleeds take effect, bleeds kill them. I just use other skills to maximize damage.

65 + 43 + 40 + 38 + 64 = 250 MP

I have 791 MP, so 791-(250+X)= 541-X

Lol at your statement about "garbage" skills for barb, I guess your including mighty swing, surf impact and beastial onslaught. I guess only buffs and Armageddon is only barbs useful skills to you. You failed again fool, no wonder why you take too long to kill. You must of created a real crappy barb there.

You say how inefficient about my own experience or opinion. But when I experience the FACT you still say it is, maybe because I have a LVL55 LOL. At least carebears know how to play other than talk utter garbage like you.

+ the OP probably go demon, he might, but do I flame him about going demon? No, Did other barbs that went demon or sage dictate him besides you and someone else? No, only you and tigerlily is being biased. Bored players will always be there, sage or demon path, they choose the "wrong cultivation" I have a cleric friend that was disappointed about going demon on his cleric, at least he still plays. He wanted to go SAGE. Note, not saying sage is better than demon, its balanced, you don't think outside the box, which makes you fail.

About AOEing it varies, I have to have at least a spark for that to work. Now go crawl back to the archer forum and say how terrible a sage archer is like you always done. KTHXBAI. Leaving thread

DaCage - Sanctuary · March 2010

Demon>Sage aggro keeping.
Demon>Sage damage dealing.
Demon>Sage pk.
Sage>Demon catapulling.

/End thread.

Lulznotwar - Lost City · March 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wafflechan your the one misleading saying sages fail and for carebears. But you probably got jealous of a sage archer that done better than you and then you start flaming about people who go sage. Again, I have more experience on barbs than YOU do, which I play as barb better than you, you might play archer better than I do, but you don't know how to play your barb and a higher LVLed barb than me. Once again, sage and demon ARE balanced from the skill books and the players I seen. Too much MP for one mob... yeah LOL. In AOE, its about the same amount too b:bye . At my LVL I could just be in true form... devour > flesh ream > human form > garrote > beastial onslaught and just auto attack ONE mob while stacked bleeds take effect, bleeds kill them. I just use other skills to maximize damage.

And you can AoE Devour? thats a new one b:shocked

Yulk i agree with waffle here, you have a level 55 barb which you arent leveling, GTFO the barb forums, yes you reply a lot, and sometimes it may be helpful. But you are too low a level to know the ins and outs of the class.

And Sage Archers do fail. End of story.

Barbs can easily go either way, but waffle is wrong Barbs to have Cons, one being low DMG Demon fixes that, Low Accuracy demon fixes that with bloodbath, Low dmg in tiger Demon fixes that.

While Sage just boosts our pro's such as more hp, more Pdef, more tanking ability and more constant dmg

SwiftKitten - Dreamweaver · March 2010

it depends on what u want to do.

and also what type of server you are on.

For a PVE server unless u plan on dueling or DD in TW u should use tiger more often.

so demon is a must.

demon is way better for tiger barbs

sage is better for human and duels

Yulk - Heavens Tear · March 2010

SwiftKitten - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it depends on what u want to do.

and also what type of server you are on.

For a PVE server unless u plan on dueling or DD in TW u should use tiger more often.

so demon is a must.

demon is way better for tiger barbs

sage is better for human and duels

Disagree... There are good points on both sage and demon for both forms.

I chose to be sage because bonuses of overall skills suit me more.

Tiger form, I am pretty sure its better (or maybe not, HP and speed bonus) for demons because of damage penalty is removed. Although I rather have more HP and movement speed. I think demon one have it better here.

But flesh ream is spammable even without demon version, I don't see the point on something that people will really notice about flesh ream cooldown -0.5 secs. Doesn't matter, but thats like spending more on chi over time. I don't see any point on spamming flesh ream over and over. So I prefer less chi cost, its more reliable to spam than demon one. Besides, I use flesh ream after bleed finish, or when I open with devour, I use it twice after it cools down, after that, thats it. Sage flesh ream is better than demon because you can keep / take arggo just fine.

Alacrity of the beast is balanced, extra damage vs cooldown. I prefer more damage for alacrity. I have enough cooldown to cancel the semi mage mobs / bosses spells already. Besides, if I spam alacrity on them as demon, I will have to wait for another 6 secs to use again which is not worth it on semi magic mobs / bosses.

Devour, sage have it much better. Devour is much more reliable to spam than flesh ream when it comes to tanking / soloing. Even though flesh ream is the best skill for arggo, but devour decreases P.DEF and attack LVL which is really sweet. I prefer to gain chi than P.DEF duration increase.

Surf impact... well I prefer a bigger slow debuff than a chance of freeze. This makes them pesky kiters slower, allowing me to get a better DPS. But I suppose its balanced

Sunder, its also balanced... I prefer sage one, 6666 HP healing is much better than 4000 HP healing with 5 secs of critting... which is only very few attacks.

Beastial rage is balanced. I prefer sage though, really helpful for AOEs which is sweet.

poison fang, I prefer demon... duration is long enough already

Roar, I prefer decreasing magic attack than reflecting damage, demon one overwrite's veno's bramble guard no? Besides, m.dmg debuff is very rare, this opens a path for making barbs tank magic mobs / bosses better.

Frighten, sage ofc, 33% chance of freeze can stop mobs from kiting for good.

Summery of all skills prefered

Human form skills
Sage 8 out of 12
Demon 3 out of 12
Tied 1 out of 12

Tiger skills / passive
Sage 7 out of 10
Demon 1 out of 10
Tied 2 out of 10

Passive
Sage 1 out of 2
demon 0 out of 2
tied 1 out of 2

Overall
Sage 16 out of 24
Demon 4 out of 24
Tied 4 out of 24

Sage is what I prefer because more skills will be of more use for me than demon. Making me choose sage overall. Top 3 skills are definitely sage roar, sage sunder and sage devour.

DaCage - Sanctuary · March 2010

You said sage sunder was better then demon I'm not even gonna respond too that. Flesh ream diffrence will show on random aggro bosses + you have no idea how much a archer with a +10 lunar bow threatens your aggro. You wont reset aggro on bosses as well so roar is kind of a non factor except for catapulling one thing that might shock you is that you are often stunned there so wont be using roar + casters normaly stay in a distance. You forget too agree with the Demon Onslaught>all sage human skills.

FYI Demon titan>sage titan the diffrence is about 200 weapon dmg on a +10 lunar bow archer and everyone would rather take 5% crit then 200 weapon dmg. Demon HP buff as well since CHI>Duraition.

You want too go sage thats fine. But the only real big perk of Sage is the hp in tiger.

Stop posting.

EmptyWords - Heavens Tear · March 2010

SwiftKitten - Dreamweaver wrote: »

demon is way better for tiger barbs

sage is better for human and duels

Demon = no bonus HP in tiger
Sage = yes

Demon = spark with bonus atk rate
Sage = not

...We are playing the same game???? b:laugh

b:bye

Maragon - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But flesh ream is spammable even without demon version, I don't see the point on something that people will really notice about flesh ream cooldown -0.5 secs. Doesn't matter, but thats like spending more on chi over time. I don't see any point on spamming flesh ream over and over. So I prefer less chi cost, its more reliable to spam than demon one. Besides, I use flesh ream after bleed finish, or when I open with devour, I use it twice after it cools down, after that, thats it. Sage flesh ream is better than demon because you can keep / take arggo just fine.

ummmm....I know my barb is only 72 and can in no way compare to level 55 but if i'm on a boss arent i supposed to spam FR so there is a less chance of loosing aggro?

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sage is what I prefer because more skills will be of more use for me than demon. Making me choose sage overall. Top 3 skills are definitely sage roar, sage sunder and sage devour.

opinion based on browsing ecatomb please disregard

The most helpful thing you have said is that its the choice of the player. In deciding sage demon for my cleric I dont ask ppl which i should chose I ask why a sage/demon chose what they did and how they like it. and thats what anyone on these forums really needs to hear. what and why from real sage/demon players. not opinions from someone who doesnt level. and btw you have emphasized that alot. if you dont level you dont do anything new how can you gain more experience?

@OP please read what the 89+ are saying and learn from their experiences.

Yulk - I facepalm in your general direction

Demon Or Sage?

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