TW a joke ?
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I was hoping this thread would be about DW instead of Sanc.Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0
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Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »Come to Sanctuary, where all but three pieces of land are owned by Nefarious. Some factions do TW for the hell of it, while others are "hired" by the "dominant" faction to fake bid and intentionally lose.
This is stupid, as doing that would cause the faction to be disbanded, and all players would be banned from TW in the future.0 -
AND the channel goes back to Dreamweaver,
Ok im taking another angel on things, Cus in my thoughts, its the OTHER Factions at fault here, There are enough lvl 100 players dinging everyday now that IF they had some freaking organizational skills MAYBE some of these smaller upcoming factions might be capable, NOW
im not talking about what I will from here on call the UPRISING factions, those that attacked in unison, good job , now what i am talking about are these 8x and 9x leader of some factions that cant seem to realize, too many chiefs not enough followers, everyone wants to be IN charge and its causing the TW map to be dull, if more of the ppl in that lvl range that could make a diffrence would maybe I would be tempted to stick around , as it is, im on the fence about the new server myself.
Sorry if i sound harsh im just trying to voice an opinion about something that im only barely able to fully grasp since so much of it goes on behind the scenes. b:surrender0 -
The problem The Kin has with TW's in general is they're far too short. They're basically set up the same way RF Online set up their chip wars, however those lasted longers and had more people and it was a 3 way battle.
In any case, the TW system itself needs to be reworked. For one, the crystals have far too little HP and can be destroyed too quickly.
Secondly, there needs to be scalable buffs available to factions who are outnumbered to encourage fair play and make it so a zerg rush can't work.
Third, there needs to be a prep time enabled in which a ceasefire is enforced so all factions can set up their towers etc. Territory wars are supposed to be just that. Wars. Wars are not won in a day. Rome was not built in a day. Why should a TW last less than a perfect world day? A TW should be an event that lasts at least an hour, not a two - ten minute zerg rush of whoever spawns in first as it currently is. Just the Kins' thoughts.
Oh and fourthly, remove the seal affect and make defenders respawn with full HP and MP and a temporary attack level buff for their home base. As it stands now, defenders are far too crippled and zerg tactics only are more effective.0 -
I don't think resetting a map is fair at all to the factions who spent time taking lands, however, my suggestion would be to: Remove the cap where only 3 factions can attack another faction. It should be a free for all gank with as many factions joining into the fray, owning vast tracks of land shouldn't be easy to maintain. (If) the devs implement this simple suggestion, TW would be fun and exciting for the vast majority of players.0
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As the OP i can say this :
1. apparently a lot of people think the TW system is flawed at best.
2. apparently they also "assume" or "have heard" about dominating factions going into agreements with other faction(s) on how to do TW, this isn't just a rumour, it has happened before, it will happen again.
3. As for Dreamweaver : I agree that Calamity has a lot of high lvl powerful players. And i DO agree that it is their "right" to own the lands because they worked/fought for them.
But consider these facts :
- high lvl players getting "bought" to leave their faction to join another one (experienced it myself in own faction)
- players "clanhopping" when they lose TW's
- Nearly all high lvl players want to move to the strongest faction, because face it, when you're lvl 95+ and the rest of the faction is below lvl 90 or even 80, who you're gonna squad with anyway for instances ?
So the problems remain.
There is no time restriction that prevents people from clanhopping, meaning if you were to leave your faction you can instantly join another. If it were implemented that you have to wait 72 hrs before joining another, this would happen on a lesser scale.
There is also almost no restriction on making a faction. Loads of factions exist that cannot even be called decent. Anyone with only half a brain can make a faction and invite players, so you have craploads of crappy factions that invite every single one to fill their needs.
The more factions there are, the more players are divided, and the higher lvls like said before will move to the strongest one just because there is no restriction. And there are a LOT of factions where half the numbers are even below lvl 30...
All these issues should be addressed properly in order to allow stronger factions being made while maintaining the FUN for the lower levels.
Making a lvl restriction for TW would also be nice. Wth is a lvl 40 going to do in TW anyway ? Distract the enemy ? lmao....
Kinohki has some valid points. While you own a land you should be defending it, but now attackers are only being overrun. It would not be hard for the devs to implement a "waiting" period so attackers can at least get out of their base to do just that. Attack.
As it stands now, when you attack a land, you spawn in, and 2 minutes later it's over because the "defenders" already walked past the VERY crippled towers and destroyed the crystal. The towers are a joke.
But my hope for better/longer TW's will probably be in vain.0 -
Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »As the OP i can say this :
1. apparently a lot of people think the TW system is flawed at best.
2. apparently they also "assume" or "have heard" about dominating factions going into agreements with other faction(s) on how to do TW, this isn't just a rumour, it has happened before, it will happen again.
3. As for Dreamweaver : I agree that Calamity has a lot of high lvl powerful players. And i DO agree that it is their "right" to own the lands because they worked/fought for them.
But consider these facts :
- high lvl players getting "bought" to leave their faction to join another one (experienced it myself in own faction)
- players "clanhopping" when they lose TW's
- Nearly all high lvl players want to move to the strongest faction, because face it, when you're lvl 95+ and the rest of the faction is below lvl 90 or even 80, who you're gonna squad with anyway for instances ?
So the problems remain.
There is no time restriction that prevents people from clanhopping, meaning if you were to leave your faction you can instantly join another. If it were implemented that you have to wait 72 hrs before joining another, this would happen on a lesser scale.
There is also almost no restriction on making a faction. Loads of factions exist that cannot even be called decent. Anyone with only half a brain can make a faction and invite players, so you have craploads of crappy factions that invite every single one to fill their needs.
The more factions there are, the more players are divided, and the higher lvls like said before will move to the strongest one just because there is no restriction. And there are a LOT of factions where half the numbers are even below lvl 30...
All these issues should be addressed properly in order to allow stronger factions being made while maintaining the FUN for the lower levels.
Making a lvl restriction for TW would also be nice. Wth is a lvl 40 going to do in TW anyway ? Distract the enemy ? lmao....
Kinohki has some valid points. While you own a land you should be defending it, but now attackers are only being overrun. It would not be hard for the devs to implement a "waiting" period so attackers can at least get out of their base to do just that. Attack.
As it stands now, when you attack a land, you spawn in, and 2 minutes later it's over because the "defenders" already walked past the VERY crippled towers and destroyed the crystal. The towers are a joke.
But my hope for better/longer TW's will probably be in vain.
1 Simple solution: Devs have to remove the 3 faction attacking rule. No need for level restrictions, resets and what nots.0 -
TW already has rules that GMs have proven unwilling to enforce. More "restrictions" would do nothing but mess with regular gameplay without improving the TW scene...
The really ugly truth here is not that dominant factions are corrupt, but that the mediocrity of the general player base allows for it. Where are the challengers? Where are the high levels that will not be bribed or bullied? Where is the faction that will stand for underdogs?
OP, people like you are just as guilty, if not more, as the guys in dominant factions...0 -
Okay. Tomorrow, the amount of attacker factions restriction will be removed, 15 small factions will try to gank and still lose in 5 minutes.
What next? You gonna ask GMS to put an option so that so called "uber gear" of a dominating factions will be shareable with everyone on the server, who can't get it by themselves? Or maybe another restriction on amount of high levels in the same faction?
Face the truth, you can't come, play with your char for some weeks and have even a tiny chance to win players, who farmed the hell of a time by gaining experience and skills...0 -
If you want to kill others, roll a PvP server. If you want to TW, open your wallet.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »ok here is the deal you small factions bid on Calamity knowing the Strength of the Faction knowing full well that there was a huge chance they would dominate you, you also bid on Calamity knowing that Dynasty has land and none were bid on besides the one by Calamity.
if you were that concerned about winning a tw why did you not try for the weakest of top 1/3 factions instead of attacking the top faction on the server?
^This is why I don't understand the logic smaller factions. They bid on the top faction in hopes of getting land even though they can't take out other factions with land like Vanquish or HDT. Yet they bid on Calamity thinking "Oh Dynasty won! We can win too!" because they do not know the truth behind it.Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »If you want to kill others, roll a PvP server. If you want to TW, open your wallet.
I have not spent a cent on this game (which explains alot) and I still TW. I know factionmates that have high refined gear and reached level 100 that have not spent a single cent on the game. I do think PvP servers would be a solution though.0 -
They attack the top factions because they think "Hey, I bet if we get lucky and they have a ton of wars going on at the same time, we might get land!"
And then they rush in, with a bunch of level 60s, get one shot, crystal breaks, and then they come to the forums and complain about how TW is "broken" because, Hey, they've been playing for SIX WEEKS NOW, and they should have a chance at beating the people who have been playing much longer and worked hard to level and farm gear.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
They should just reset player levels every week. Give all players an equal chance, amirite?0
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hey OP, ya get another chance in a few daysb:laugh0
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It's funny that most people are saying the reason that these factions don't win is because they are full of characters who have only worked for a few weeks and expect everything to be handed to them...etc etc. While I've come to expect that from the old timers here, this is sorta surprising.
Hard work and hard work alone will NOT win you TWs. To all those who said, "well just work/farm harder"...I guarantee that some of the factions in power today did not get where they are ONLY due to working and farming. To say that these losing factions are losing because they lack the work ethic is being way too reductionist. There are tons more factors that go into having a successful TW faction: good leadership, a core group that can enforce common goals, and unfortunately, real life money.
People are quick to characterise the losers as lazy and the winners as hardworking, but in truth there are only a few people that managed to lay the framework for these powerful factions, and the rest of the members are high levels strung along for the ride and the power. I admire greatly the early leaders who founded the big name facs. But most high level players wanting TW experience will flock to the already successful ones.
It is very difficult to gather a force that can put up a decent fight, with the way the maps are looking today. Impossible? Certainly not. But difficult. I think the OP has some valid points. Most of you all acknowledge that there are faults in the TW system. But I do not think that EVERY single person in a dominant TW fac is deserving of it...there are plenty of people who work harder and lose. And more factors that play into success and failure.0 -
Hard work is measured in one's own mind. Everyone thinks their hard work is worth more than the person who would be working next to them. This is human nature. In any case, TW isn't about hard work anymore. Most guilds provide free rides to their "employees" who show up for work, aka TW. Basically they show up for an hour a week and get paid for it due to the insane amount of coin that TW generates and gives guilds. This in turn allows the guild to become more powerful by distributing the wealth so their 'employees" can gain better equipment to better do their job, smashing any attackers.
The catch twenty two is that everyone wants those fortune 500 jobs that pay well for minimum work. Honestly, would you rather work for 5 minutes or two hours and then go back to what you'd "rather" be doing?
The TW system itself is fine in theory. However there are some massive flaws in it as have been stated. One of the latest was the introduction to flying in the TW maps. This is stupid. What good is a fortress wall if your enemies can fly over it? This severely shortened TW time because people can just fly over the wall, drop down and clear the way for the catapult. Take out flying OR make the forts have a ceiling so people can't fly over the walls. After all, flying over a dome does no good, eh?
Secondly, the TW system itself needs different rewards other than just massive amounts of coin. They're on the right track as the guilds owning lands can create more powerful apothecary potions and such. Perhaps special potions or so as well.
Thirdly, as stated above the TW time needs to be severely lengthened. It's a once a week event. It should by no means be over in 5 minutes..0 -
Kinohki - Lost City wrote: »Thirdly, as stated above the TW time needs to be severely lengthened. It's a once a week event. It should by no means be over in 5 minutes..
TW only lasts 5 minutes if the levels of the two factions are vastly different. Which in that case, is not a matter of the system, but of the people.
If you make the crystal have 20m hp and all that, there's going to be 6 hour wars for the factions who are close in strength. I doubt people have that much time to be sitting fighting an e-war.
I don't oppose prep times because it's not cool when some of your guildies dc from the massive lag and the opponents already hitting your base. I suppose seal time is also debatable.
But there's really nothing you can do to lengthen the time a TW lasts if one side totally overpowers the other. If you pit 10 000 people with missles, rockets, grenades and guns against people with sticks and stones, obviously one side is gonna get rolled in 5 minutes. The problem, if any, should be addressed there in my opinion.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Look, the cala vs dynasty fight was 30 cala against 80 dynasty and the dynasty were getting rolled till they flat out turtled so that the eq faction could win. 15 wars at the same time would just see 14 wars with 6 ppl inside laughing and raking pk points while 1 war is serious, maybe 2.
Now those smaller factions all had the chance to attack dynasty, but they chose to go into a bidding war over calamity land, then qq that calamity is sending players in. Should calamity be like, oh. u won the bidding war. heres a free land. u deserve it. no. and why would only like 5 ppl go in? the other 100 or so ppl just stay on the side lines going: you can do it! go team!! ????
now a tw map reset is the plee of someone who is too lazy to do anything about it themselves. go to rt or arch server if your gonna qq about it.0 -
Look, the cala vs dynasty fight was 30 cala against 80 dynasty and the dynasty were getting rolled till they flat out turtled so that the eq faction could win. 15 wars at the same time would just see 14 wars with 6 ppl inside laughing and raking pk points while 1 war is serious, maybe 2.
We didn't turtle at all. EQ won and THEN we got steam rolled. Also, your numbers are way off. Try to get accurate information before you post something like this.
Now those smaller factions all had the chance to attack dynasty, but they chose to go into a bidding war over calamity land, then qq that calamity is sending players in. Should calamity be like, oh. u won the bidding war. heres a free land. u deserve it. no. and why would only like 5 ppl go in? the other 100 or so ppl just stay on the side lines going: you can do it! go team!! ????
I don't think any factions when into a bidding war. Other than Prodigy and that other faction were bidding on that land because it was the only land OPEN.
now a tw map reset is the plee of someone who is too lazy to do anything about it themselves. go to rt or arch server if your gonna qq about it.
You QQed on the forums too.
Anyways, if TW was a joke, it's not very funny considering the cost of it.0 -
Buttworm - Dreamweaver wrote: »Okay. Tomorrow, the amount of attacker factions restriction will be removed, 15 small factions will try to gank and still lose in 5 minutes.
What next? You gonna ask GMS to put an option so that so called "uber gear" of a dominating factions will be shareable with everyone on the server, who can't get it by themselves? Or maybe another restriction on amount of high levels in the same faction?
Face the truth, you can't come, play with your char for some weeks and have even a tiny chance to win players, who farmed the hell of a time by gaining experience and skills...
How can you beat every one of the 15 small/medium sized factions attacking you all at the same time?? Youre bound to lose some land for sure.
If there wasn't a restriction and the system schedules that Buttworm's faction will have to face 8 of the 15 factions at once, where will you get the man power to defend all of that land you have?? Pull it out of your bottom ****??? Hence, I say no restrictions needed to be added to the system, just one removed and most will be happy.0 -
Buttworm - Dreamweaver wrote: »Okay. Tomorrow, the amount of attacker factions restriction will be removed, 15 small factions will try to gank and still lose in 5 minutes.
lol or 3 top Factions, 8 medium factions and 5 small factions all gank one person ... good luck defending them all.
Pretty stupid rule that if you have 3 lands you might have to defend them all, but if you have 33 you still only have to defend 3 .
Be great for TW if the 3 att rule was removed.0 -
i think the probelm is there is, at any given time, 50+ people thinking they are going to be the leader of the next big quild. All theses 50+ wanna be leader blow 10 million on a level 3 faction and proceed to compete for the possibly 500 TW capable players and divide them up into a bunch of sub par quilds that cant compete. Meanwhile these 500 or so TW capable player are guild hoping like crazy so no one particular guild can make any progress.
If your not a group of, what ill term celeberty players, dont even think about rushing out to purchase a lvl 3 guild and start shouting in World chat for recruitment. You are just fooling yourself if you think you are going to head the next great land owning guild. Know you role and just join a current guild whose rules you can agree with and try to improve. You may think you some 70+ hot shot whose going to take over the map if given half a chance. But actually your a big nobody with no chance of getting any player of any caliber to join your guild.
BTW a celeberty player would be a player that when his name is mention, all people understand, hes a bad ****. A person that other players mention when they see him where they are questing. You my freind, are not that person, so save yourself some trouble and join an existing guild. Put that 10 million you would have spent on you on lvl 3 guild and invest it in your gear and possible make a difference.
Consoladate quilds is the only answer but it will never happen and quilds will continue to **** away 500k to bid. As soon as the fail a few times most members quild hop to other various factions, and so on, and so on, and so on.0 -
Vorawrcious - Harshlands wrote: »i think the probelm is there is, at any given time, 50+ people thinking they are going to be the leader of the next big quild... Edited for space.
This i entirely agree with... The bit about celebrities is a bit funny tho.0 -
Selador - Heavens Tear wrote: »How can you beat every one of the 15 small/medium sized factions attacking you all at the same time?? Youre bound to lose some land for sure.
If there wasn't a restriction and the system schedules that Buttworm's faction will have to face 8 of the 15 factions at once, where will you get the man power to defend all of that land you have?? Pull it out of your bottom ****??? Hence, I say no restrictions needed to be added to the system, just one removed and most will be happy.
what would be the point of this in order to do this they would severely need to increase faction capacity.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ty Nowitsawn
Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.0 -
Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »what would be the point of this in order to do this they would severely need to increase faction capacity.
The point is moot if guild capacity is increased simply because it would offset what my suggestion aims to do.
And besides why would guild capacity need to be increased if the 3 attacking faction rule was removed if the objective is to balance TW? Removing the rule means that it would be difficult for any one faction to hold that many land, which I think is more realistic in the first place, and it gives any decent faction a chance to grab a piece they can call their own.
Besides even if you had a capacity of 400 people, I doubt that you'd be able to hold all 15 lands at once when you have the same amount of gankers on your borders.
Just a simple fix: remove the 3 attacking rule.0 -
Not in favor of 15 tw's at one time, my god the TW planners of the defending guild would commit suicide lol.0
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_makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Not in favor of 15 tw's at one time, my god the TW planners of the defending guild would commit suicide lol.
Hahah yeah exactly. Can you say: tactical nightmare?
@Buttworm:
There's no way Calamity would be able to defend against 15 factions at once. You guys have enough problems with just 2. Add in HDT, XBuhidoX, Vanquish, Inversion, and 9 other factions and really. . .
If all 200 members were online and you wanted to space your members equally throughout all 15 TWs, you'd have rought 13 members in each. I don't think 13 members is enough to take down a faction.0 -
Vorawrcious - Harshlands wrote: »BTW a celeberty player would be a player that when his name is mention, all people understand, hes a bad ****.QUOTE]
umm so can i be a celeberty player? b:chuckle
BTW i was in one of those lil factions attacking cala an i had fun thats what we went in for just to have some fun i would rather fight the strongest and see how i do. besides it is cheaper to attack the big faction and have some fun than getting into a 10 mil + bidding war over weaker factions lands
ChillZone[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
The system definately has to be reworked...
While I agree that a lower lvl faction shouldn't expect a dominating faction to go easy on them, it's unbalanced in that while the dominating fac gets richer the small attacking faction gets poorer. Take Sanctuary and Nef for for example...when they hold that many lands, and get 10mil for each land and even more for major cities each week; even the non cash shoppers (and there has to be some) can get rich purely by TW pay, so their weaker people are constantly getting stronger. And ofc by giving money to their weaker people they become stronger overall, and the balance is gone no matter how hard smaller factions try to compete. They just can't match the income.you thilly gooses... feather set is thuper fabulous! -Bowlinbob
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You make it sound like TW pay is a lot of money.
I mean sure when you realize the total amount of coins that the faction receive it looks like a lot. But then you have to consider the money spent on bidding, catapults, towers, etc. Take whats left and that's split between 200 people. The average member of a dominant faction probably makes less off of TW salary than what most people can make in one day doing HH. The average cash shopper probably charges double the average TW players salary. Not the ones who went out and got full +10 rank 8 stuff, no, just your average cash shopper.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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