What can/can't a Blademaster tank?

losstarot
losstarot Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Blademaster
Assuming the BM is around level (via BH, TT, FB...) and doing a 3str/2dex build with decent gears, what bosses can a BM do that most think Barbs can only tank and what bosses can a BM never do (at least without being many levels higher or having insane gear).
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  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    BM can tank most of the quest bosses as I did back then. The exceptions are Jewel and Krimson I think. As for lower TTs, BB+IH should cover Drum and Soul. Doubt a 3-2 BM can tank the clone boss when they are the "right" level for the TT quest tho.
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    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • KuroUma - Sanctuary
    KuroUma - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    w/ a 3/2 stat distribution, bosses that can hit hard like jewel, and krimson are out, like death said. and of course magic bosses like mantavip will pose problems. however with a decent cleric (or two in some cases) pretty much every other boss can be tanked (or at least the ones i've tried, havent tried to tank any of the fb89 or higher bosses).

    in summary, to me the BMs ability to tank is more a factor of how good the cleric(s) are at keeping him alive, and how good the DDs are at managing damage. (although i can DD aggro steal from some barbs w/ my 3/2 build, so they may be able to go even more "all out" with a BM)
    "When someone is giving you his opinion, you should recieve it with deep gratitude, even if it is worthless. If you don't, he will not tell you the things he has seen or heard about you again. It is best to both give and recieve opinions in a friendly way." -Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure

    "I'm not dieing yet. There are quite a few men I need to kill first." - Kuwabatake Sanjuuro, Yojimbo
  • AeonieX - Heavens Tear
    AeonieX - Heavens Tear Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    is 3/2 the way to go? ive recently made BM alt and im going 5 str 2 dex 3 vit every 2 lvls..only lvl 14 so if i should change would prefer to know now
    AeonieX - Hybrid Vit Veno 6x
    HarmieX - Pure Mag Psychic 6x
    KyraneiX - Axe/Fist BM 4x
    KyranthoX - Axe Barb 2x
    KyyranthoX - Hybrid Cleric 2x
    AskariX - Pure Dex Assassin 2x
    KyraneiiX - Pure Dex Archer 0x
    AeoniiX - Pure Mag Wizard 0x
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    3/2's nice since you'll be able to use all weapons, but having a few VIT doesn't hurt. You'll still be able to use both axes and fists of your level later on anyways due to points from equipments even if you don't follow 3/2. You can also wait a couple of level for one of the 2 weapons if you've been adding a few VIT.
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    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • LegendofLove - Lost City
    LegendofLove - Lost City Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You dun rly need to be a vit build to tank, as long as you got some refine in your gears then your good to go
    The problem of BM tanking HH/TT is that they cant rly hold aggro from others
    For me, i think fists BM can hold aggro better then polearm, sword, n maybe axes BMs
  • KuroUma - Sanctuary
    KuroUma - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    from my experience, fists are indeed best at holding aggro, in fact i sometimes need to move away from my fists so i dont get killed. and about the shards and refines, i've been using +2s and g7 citrines, and i've seen LA classes with more HP(and sometimes a few levels lower, albeit with better refines/gems). BMs are also good at soloing their minibosses especially w/ charms. hardest thing has been what i've mentioned, keeping alive against bosses when the cleric cant keep up, luckily pole is the only boss that does to me regularly.
    "When someone is giving you his opinion, you should recieve it with deep gratitude, even if it is worthless. If you don't, he will not tell you the things he has seen or heard about you again. It is best to both give and recieve opinions in a friendly way." -Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure

    "I'm not dieing yet. There are quite a few men I need to kill first." - Kuwabatake Sanjuuro, Yojimbo
  • shootingstarvn
    shootingstarvn Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    BM can tank most of the quest bosses as I did back then. The exceptions are Jewel and Krimson I think. As for lower TTs, BB+IH should cover Drum and Soul. Doubt a 3-2 BM can tank the clone boss when they are the "right" level for the TT quest tho.

    BM can tank Jewel and Krimson , i have done it too
  • MinervaWolf - Dreamweaver
    MinervaWolf - Dreamweaver Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    IMO, properly well geared BM can tank any boss. If my archer (with fist mind you) can tank the bosses mentioned above, then the BM can.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Here, with the Strana Mechty wolf, we see what may be the epitome of a warrior, cunning matched with instinct and stealth, joined with a final, terrifying attack. For this mighty creature, I name you. You are Clan Wolf." -Nicholas Kerensky
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    shootingstarvn wrote: »
    BM can tank Jewel and Krimson , i have done it too

    Your own Krimson, when you got it for the quest?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • memq
    memq Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    To be honest, only bosses that BM can't tank are these that got random aggro.
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You all could tank mantavip at level??
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    shootingstarvn wrote: »
    BM can tank Jewel and Krimson , i have done it too

    At the level you get the quests.... Jewel, yes with clerics who heal and purify. Krimson? Mantavip? Luminoc? I highly doubt that.

    If you've outleveled the quests... well I can tank just about anything, including a few world bosses. *shrug*
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • LuneLain - Lost City
    LuneLain - Lost City Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    a BM isn't much of a main tank below lvl 70. After lvl 70 you will be able to tank some quest bosses like Gouf, Suzzerix Quilhog and a few other small ones. The big ones like Crimson, Manta, Jewels are not an option.

    And after 80 you can tank for FBs upto 79, HH 1-x, 2-1, 2-2 without too much trouble.

    But all in all it depends on your gear and built on which bosses/instances you can main tank.

    Personally i would suggest getting some vitality. Sure, you can rely on your dex to make the bosses miss you more often but when you do get hit, you don't want to be 1 or 2 shotted because the cleric/healer wasn't paying attention.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Really, any class can tank if you just bung them in HA and make sure they have a bit of HP. PvE bosses are rather straightforward.
  • Brutu - Heavens Tear
    Brutu - Heavens Tear Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It depends entirely on the bm's level but typically with that build you don't want to tank bosses that you receive at your current level(however there are exceptions, slitt, charr and other easy bosses for instance).

    The problem isn't necessarily the lack of hp, yes this is a factor, but the main problem is holding aggro under level 70 and even 80 against psys and other high damage casting classes... Because a bm doesn't really become a barb like aggro holder until you have your interval gear and such.

    Now if your asking if bms at max level can tank any boss, I am sure there are certain bosses that would make more sense if a barb tanked it, but I have confidence a level 100+ bm can tank almost anything you can throw at him.

    Lastly, as far as bms being the best aggro holders, barbs are better until the 90s and are about equal at around that point(though I honestly think barbs are still better then but I am not 90 yet so I wouldn't know).
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Depends what type of BM, and while people may be sick of hearing this, blade or fist/claw is best tank.

    To tank you need to be able to survive, and keep aggro. Surviving has not been difficult for FB bosses or TT so far for 3 2 build. Only Pole/Nob BH can give issue. But a cleric who knows how to purify on that one makes it a non-issue.

    I've seen a BM with +6 Dance of the Universe lose aggro to an archer, because they did not have enough dex or attack speed to out-damage the archer. After they lost it twice, I used a lvl 85 fist to grab and keep aggro.

    This is the important part, and something the few good barbs know about. It's the aggro skills that let barbs tank, when we tank we pretty much need to deal more damage than everyone else. And the lower accuracy and attacks speed of lower dex axe/spear types do not work well with that quite often.

    As for barbs keeping aggro, the really good ones can get aggro back for a while when they go all out in aggro management. Seeing as they account for a very small percent, most 9X barbs can't maintain aggro if fist doesn't hold back, and the dregs can't hold aggro with fist holding back. When we hit 5 APS, kiss your aggro goodbye. And this is on the ? bosses with their damage penalties.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Brutu - Heavens Tear
    Brutu - Heavens Tear Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for barbs keeping aggro, the really good ones can get aggro back for a while when they go all out in aggro management. Seeing as they account for a very small percent, most 9X barbs can't maintain aggro if fist doesn't hold back, and the dregs can't hold aggro with fist holding back. When we hit 5 APS, kiss your aggro goodbye. And this is on the ? bosses with their damage penalties.
    Like I said, I am not level one hundred yet... But last night for instance I squaded with a lvl 85 fist bm with very good gear and even while I am 9 levels lower I was able to hold aggro off him through his sparks whilst not going all out with FR.

    I squaded with a lvl 100 bm before with 5 hits per second after demon spark in my fb69, I didn't have a chance of holding aggro from him but with FR I was easily capable of stealing aggro for a few seconds. Maybe I am just special but so far I really don't think blademasters are better at holding aggro then barbs, especially if the levels are the same.

    But obviously I personally haven't ever been above 90 so I cannot truly say for sure, but I have done some homework on the subject and it looks as though barbs, good ones that is, can hold aggro as long as the dps doesn't go crazy with the dps skills.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Like I said, I am not level one hundred yet... But last night for instance I squaded with a lvl 85 fist bm with very good gear and even while I am 9 levels lower I was able to hold aggro off him through his sparks whilst not going all out with FR.

    I squaded with a lvl 100 bm before with 5 hits per second after demon spark in my fb69, I didn't have a chance of holding aggro from him but with FR I was easily capable of stealing aggro for a few seconds. Maybe I am just special but so far I really don't think blademasters are better at holding aggro then barbs, especially if the levels are the same.

    But obviously I personally haven't ever been above 90 so I cannot truly say for sure, but I have done some homework on the subject and it looks as though barbs, good ones that is, can hold aggro as long as the dps doesn't go crazy with the dps skills.

    It's also a matter of aggro in the skill. Barb's can get it back from instant skill aggro, but it drops soon after due to DPS. And it becomes then a question of what is best to have tank; the BM or the barb.

    If the BM is able to survive just fine, BM should tank. Barb can go human form, and there would be no worry of dropped aggro due to fist DPS being greater than the others. Everyone deals more damage, boss dies faster, no aggro ping pong.

    If barb tanks, fist BM must reduce damage, other DDs may need to drop damage as well, barb is dealing less damage in many cases. No aggro ping pong.

    So it is really a question of whether they want it to take longer, or shorter. Unless there is a tangible benefit to dealing less damage, there is no point in the barb tanking in this instance. Again, fist BM must be properly equipped with enough -interval to out-DD the archers/wizzies, but that isn't as much as many would believe. Perma spark is a wondrous thing.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I might sound skeptic, but I highly doubt a 48 BM can tank Jewel. I've seen a 6X BM flew up to it to get one shotted. Back when DW was new and no Barb was in my faction, I've tried and failed to tank my own Jewel many times. I had 4 clerics at one point and couldn't do it. Maybe I wasn't purified in time since we didn't know better back then.

    Let's ignore the aggro issue for a second, since it is a problem, but a practical one instead of technical one. Sure, it sucks that the DDs have to hold back or not attack at all, but technically the BM is still able to tank it, which is what the OP's asking (The practical side of tanking, reasonable amount of aggro while have HP, is what ultimately makes a Barb better tank than BM of equal level). On the pure ability side of tanking, a VIT BM with low DEX can tank most of of the bosses. We DO have less HP than a Barb of the same build, so less room for error on purify, and skills that aid in survival such as Invoke. If we throw aggro aside, a BM can tank most of bosses if necessary, key words being "if necessary".
    LuneLain - Lost City wrote: »
    a BM isn't much of a main tank below lvl 70. After lvl 70 you will be able to tank some quest bosses like Gouf, Suzzerix Quilhog and a few other small ones. The big ones like Crimson, Manta, Jewels are not an option.

    70? I tanked all the ones you mentioned as they came in quests, way below 70. The bosses that I didn't tank at-level were Jewel, Krimson, Manta and Slither.
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    At the level you get the quests.... Jewel, yes with clerics who heal and purify. Krimson? Mantavip? Luminoc? I highly doubt that.

    If you've outleveled the quests... well I can tank just about anything, including a few world bosses. *shrug*

    What's wrong about Luminoc? O_o
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    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Really, any class can tank if you just bung them in HA and make sure they have a bit of HP. PvE bosses are rather straightforward.

    Just because you use HA, doesn't mean you can tank... b:laugh. Ever heard of magic bosses?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
    HA > LA > AR... GG

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  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just because you use HA, doesn't mean you can tank... b:laugh. Ever heard of magic bosses?

    You mean the 1 out of 2532632 that's in FB39?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just because you use HA, doesn't mean you can tank... b:laugh. Ever heard of magic bosses?

    The ones that drop occasional magic are easily tankable by HA. The ones that are pure magic like trioc are STILL tankable by HA. The only boss I can really think of would be mantavip but even barbs don't usually tank that.

    Basically, anything a BM can tank, any other class could tank too with HA and enough hp statted. I've personally tanked everything on a HA cleric that my BM has.

    BM's just happen to conveniently wear HA and generally aim for decent HP, which makes them naturally good at main-tanking easier PvE bosses.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What's wrong about Luminoc? O_o

    I'd just like to see a 5x BM try to tank it.... it is part of the 5x culti? Luminoc will one or two shot most 8x and many 9x squishies. Even at 8x, I wouldn't even think of soloing it... I can now, without potting even, but at 5x with a 5x cleric? lol ain't gonna happen.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    I'd just like to see a 5x BM try to tank it.... it is part of the 5x culti? Luminoc will one or two shot most 8x and many 9x squishies. Even at 8x, I wouldn't even think of soloing it... I can now, without potting even, but at 5x with a 5x cleric? lol ain't gonna happen.

    49 cult. 8X really? O_o

    Tanked mine with 2 clerics b:chuckle. He's not that hard once his dmg cut in half up close and you have Marrow on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Xelthion - Harshlands
    Xelthion - Harshlands Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    loll i still find it extremely hard to tank Jewels and Crim-Eyes >_<
    magic bosses ftl b:cry
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Xelthion - Harshlands wrote: »
    loll i still find it extremely hard to tank Jewels and Crim-Eyes >_<
    magic bosses ftl b:cry

    Really? O_o I charmlessly solo Jewel a couple of levels ago. They are not really magic actually but physical debuff. Try physical Marrow ;).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    posting this before i knock out for the night

    3 base vit and 4.3k hp in fists

    succesfully tanked 1-3 drum after herc died...solo cleric lvl 85 +2 tt 80 maq sword

    drum at 3/4 hp veno turned off bash and brambles i get a repair bill and a fun time ToP and MSS are lifesavers really do buy cleric time to stack heals

    theres not much a BM CANT tank at lvl or a higher lvl with well timed spark erupts and cancles good geni timeing and MSS

    still looking forward to trying wur pole and nob at 80b:dirty
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

    still looking forward to trying wur pole and nob at 80b:dirty

    Alright man, let me know how that goes in a couple of years. b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • LuneLain - Lost City
    LuneLain - Lost City Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I find it funny when people come up and say "oh i did this when i was like this and that".
    Uhm, that's not relevant or is it?
    Sure you can pull all sort of things with your BM but doesnt that come forth from your own gameplay? So BM player A technically can't do the same as BM player B. When a same class player has questions try to answer it from their perspective or generals perspective. Why? You don't know how his gameplay and gear is. And to actually stay on topic, sure you can try to tank your quest bosses at the giving lvls but you'll need a good healing for that to accomplish so even theoraticly you can tank a certain boss doesn't mean you'll actually succesfully get to do it.
  • Brutu - Heavens Tear
    Brutu - Heavens Tear Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You mean the 1 out of 2532632 that's in FB39?
    All the bosses in 59 have magic attacks aswell, and those things hurt like hell if you don't have a good cleric(assuming your not a level 80-90+ bm that is).

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