TT drop pick choice

ino20 · February 2010

Ok, i know this is old news, but i just want to know something here in PWI since i been playing in PWMY and PWMS (europe) for about 2 years+ and my question is who get the first pick of mats in TT runs? I been few here its more or less the same as other servers, which the tank,cleric and dds by level, now this is a really tricky part, what happens is there is 2 cleric like in TT2-2 or TT2-3, does it really matter the cleric higher level first even tho this higher cleric is lazy didnt even BB/RB most of the time?

This happen today as most of the time i had to BB and RB and the higher level cleric is mostly dd and heal once a while and he get the first choice of mats while i lost so much mana doing BB and RB and i get to choose the mat 3rd choice, when we did this on other servers, the cleric who does the most RB/BB can choose first irrelevant of level coz he spent more on mana, same as barb (tank) who spent a lot on repair got to pick the mat first.

b:angry

Olba - Sanctuary · February 2010

The level order is just quicker and more practical.

For a theoretical example, it's possible that both of the clerics do exactly the same thing, except that there would be, say, half a second (or any other insignificant/unnoticeable amount of time) of a difference. Say, no one else but the cleric her/himself notices this. How could he argue to get to pick before the other cleric? There is no way, it would just cause useless drama.

Really, TTs that are done for profit are all about efficiency. Saving time is also about efficiency.

Also, there are different opinions of what IS the optimal way of fulfilling your role on just about any race. Archer might be the only exception, where everyone seems to agree on STA + Normal attacks.

The logic behind the "higher level gets higher priority" idea is that higher levels means higher capabilities for fulfilling whatever role you have. High levels mean higher stats, possibly higher skills, possibly more time spent on the class, possibly better items. All of which make said player more important than the other.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Ideally the cleric who took on the hardest part of the job would get his pick before the others, but this may actually depend on who's banking and his relationship with other squad members. A banker is more likely to give a guildie a better pick and may arbitrarily choose either level or amount of work as a basis for his decision. This is the reason it's so important to outline exactly who gets what before a run is made. It may not really change things a lot but at least you'll walk in with your eyes open.

Tanker-Healer-DD may be a useful and even practical system, but people need to understand it's not based on fair principles.

_Pale - Sanctuary · February 2010

It's actually harder to not use BB, group heal and heal individuals, but you need a decent base magic attack, maxed out skills and good coordination to pull it off and a squad that works well together.
BB is effective, and costly, but hardly a strain. You just have to watch the mana and your own health.

Just share equally and reimburse real costs if they are excessive with mirages and such (subs/scrolls/ mana) or an extra 100k for repairs. Or actually give out pots and such (much much cheaper if you can get a hold of a bunch of cheap ones or cheap tokens). If you don't know what stuff costs (rare mats) or everyone wants the same mat, put it in AH and give everyone the AH number. If they want it, they can buy it and get a discount of 16.6% to the cost of the mat ( because they get a 1/6th split of the profit).

Just saying, there are enough ways to make it work and make the split fair if people aren't too greedy. Best way is to run it with friends though, sub it and ask them to give you your 1/6th split in the form of the mat that you need.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

Oh god... not another thread like this... this has been discussed to death recently.

BEST: Split the mats equally. Everyone has their associated costs. Everyone is spending the same amount of time. Agree on terms before you even begin.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · February 2010

There's like 4 other topics on this on the first 2 pages alone.

Bottom Line: Talk with the squad before hand, if you don't like how drops are going to be split, leave.

Crypsis - Lost City · February 2010

These treads seems rather popular lol

Running TT with randoms is like who gets paid best at your work.

The most important, hardest to replace/find person in the party gets the best reward for the run.

There is really no fairness to it, does not have anything to do with who has the biggest costs. Everyone spends the same amount of time in there and has costs. Also has nothing to do with lvls either. Some 8X barb tanking 2-3 will get better loot than a lvl 95 wiz DDing b/c the last guy is not really needed.

Its all about who is important enough to make the run possible. In most cases its the barb, in other cases its a herc owner. Secondary its a cleric. If its a well geared 9X-1XX (any class) that can tank the entire instance he will get paid the best - in TT drops.

Anyone thats in a position to say "if i cant get those mats im not going" and that will make the party end before it started, will get to choose first.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Subber > Tank > Cleric(s) (Usually the one who BB/RB the most) > DD (Done by level).

This is the general order of drops which i do and have come across in TT's.

Sort out order before you start and list the roles to other cleric in future so you don't feel hard done by.

Gasoline - Lost City · February 2010

Maybe you should say before the run what mats you want >.<

If they dont wanna let you have those specific mats, just tell them to find another cleric b:cute

Its easy i always do that if people ask me to come TT. I will only come if i can book XXXX mats. Might be a **** if that certain boss only drops 2 mirages and 1 crusader order, but i prefer that way. Trying to split stuff in a fair way after a run always often ends with pointless QQ.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver · February 2010

If u ask me drops should be given according to highest costs (the idea of the tank cler dd system) I c a few things not working in that (which doesn't have to be lvl related) anyway,, who BB and who normal heal the clerics should agree on so u don't get suck a lasy bum. nxt up is that if u took the one with higest cost of the clers the two clerics would both prolly claim to be higher than the other =/. You could do something like this instead though.

Tank Cler1 Cler2 DD
Tank Cler2 Cler1 DD

If u get enough drops for that lol. oh btw not sure ... is the tank before cler? and if yes then why? HP charm ticking? mana pots burning? whats the reason. also why are some of the classes in DD section not placed higher than others? like i for my part can run without any costs at all, where others burn up their MP charm completly to be able to do their job (could be wiz). Were ppl just too lazy to order rest of the classes b:chuckle

Just my personal tuts. My idea of who its done would suck though cuz that would eventually almost always place one certain class last. (ill leave it to the unkown which since i don't wanna be reason this class get a suckish TT run from now on)

Also i liked the idea someone came up with, that after the first drop round u turn the tables, angd go by another order (both good and bad) first round if good drops pay the costs almost or totally (then we got the ppl burning pots charm without reason ^^;) maybe turning the table makes lower ranked able to pay theirs too, but then higher ranked maybe lose the little profit left =/

well i change set up when i bank in fact simple as that ^^

Roseddesor - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

There's like 4 other topics on this on the first 2 pages alone.

Bottom Line: Talk with the squad before hand, if you don't like how drops are going to be split, leave.

Simply put and agreed... I hosted hundreds of TT's in the past and it is always beneficial to delegate how drops work before the run starts.

Most popular host method when hosting a random group of non-friends. Subber, Tank, Cleric (in order of mana cost) DD's (by level)...

Chances are if the host doesn't make it well known before hand they aren't a good host.

ino20 · February 2010

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

The level order is just quicker and more practical.

For a theoretical example, it's possible that both of the clerics do exactly the same thing, except that there would be, say, half a second (or any other insignificant/unnoticeable amount of time) of a difference. Say, no one else but the cleric her/himself notices this. How could he argue to get to pick before the other cleric? There is no way, it would just cause useless drama.

Really, TTs that are done for profit are all about efficiency. Saving time is also about efficiency.

Also, there are different opinions of what IS the optimal way of fulfilling your role on just about any race. Archer might be the only exception, where everyone seems to agree on STA + Normal attacks.

The logic behind the "higher level gets higher priority" idea is that higher levels means higher capabilities for fulfilling whatever role you have. High levels mean higher stats, possibly higher skills, possibly more time spent on the class, possibly better items. All of which make said player more important than the other.

i also agreed with all other posts that terms should be asked first beforehand

agreed on the above quote as well but as i said the higher level cleric is saving cost, even when boss start to aoe he just keep healing tank (maybe afk?), so each time i had to BB/RB, he just did 2 times, once at wurlord (as usual have 2 kill him 4times, i bb2times and he 2times=equal) and once at astralwalker when boss had hp like 1m left out of 4m, but the banker gives him mat choice first coz according to banker he is higher level thus he can pick mat first, who does BB or RB is irrelevant, why does a higher level cleric does little get first? (this is my only question here)

***** also if RB or BB is irrelevant, why does tank choose first, even tho others are higher level? coz he spent on repair cost and cleric mana is free or bill gates give free charms to clerics? it can only mean the other lazy cleric is bankers friend or he is stupid banker *****

for me its simple, i dont do TT runs with them ever again

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · February 2010

Is cleric MP actually expensive?

5 mins of BB at 100 MP / second is 30000 MP. Using that event seseme food that restores 5K MP each would be 6 of those. 3 tokens of luck buys 50 of them so thats about 6K of coin total. That's assuming 0 MP regeneration too so the actual cost should be less.

Even if there are like 7 bosses (half an hour of BB) that is still less than the cost of a sub...

It seems like a far more meaningful cost in running a TT is time and everyone has that cost.

Roseddesor - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is cleric MP actually expensive?

5 mins of BB at 100 MP / second is 30000 MP. Using that event seseme food that restores 5K MP each would be 6 of those. 3 tokens of luck buys 50 of them so thats about 6K of coin total. That's assuming 0 MP regeneration too so the actual cost should be less.

Even if there are like 7 bosses (half an hour of BB) that is still less than the cost of a sub...

It seems like a far more meaningful cost in running a TT is time and everyone has that cost.

Yes it can be very cheep to be a Cleric using the right methods, however we already got every one assuming it aint.. and we won't be so quick to let that slip mwuaaaa xD xD

Motoko - Raging Tide · February 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is cleric MP actually expensive?

5 mins of BB at 100 MP / second is 30000 MP. Using that event seseme food that restores 5K MP each would be 6 of those. 3 tokens of luck buys 50 of them so thats about 6K of coin total. That's assuming 0 MP regeneration too so the actual cost should be less.

Even if there are like 7 bosses (half an hour of BB) that is still less than the cost of a sub...

It seems like a far more meaningful cost in running a TT is time and everyone has that cost.

I said this in a recent thread and some poor excuse for a cleric said that hitting MP food once per minute is too complicated for him, so he has to use a charm.

I'm pretty sure my MP costs are higher in FC than a clerics in TT. I take all FC drops nao kthxbai b:dirty

_Pale - Sanctuary · February 2010

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is cleric MP actually expensive?

5 mins of BB at 100 MP / second is 30000 MP. Using that event seseme food that restores 5K MP each would be 6 of those. 3 tokens of luck buys 50 of them so thats about 6K of coin total. That's assuming 0 MP regeneration too so the actual cost should be less.

Even if there are like 7 bosses (half an hour of BB) that is still less than the cost of a sub...

It seems like a far more meaningful cost in running a TT is time and everyone has that cost.

I'm not sure if this a serious question or not, since you are lvl 101 and surely you know other people that can answer this, or maybe have a cleric of your own. In case you are genuinly interested,

I think the best answer is: Depends on the composition of the squad.

If you're going with a group that actually needs the mats to get their armor (which is to say,... most squads), they are mostly around the level that would open the instance with maybe one or two members just below the required level. Just wurlord can be 4 times 7-8 min. Not to mention the peer pressure from the group to put up BB because of damage reduction or because they fear they might draw aggro.

28x60x100/5000= 33 pots, that's just for this boss

It's not like BB is the most expensive heal either: chromatic healing beam costs you 129 mana/s, but gives you the opportunity to act in between heals, use genie skills, throw a debuff, purify, use Stream of rejuvenation if necesary. All of these together cost more then BB... But that blue ball seems to mellow everyone out because of the damage reduction; eventhough it's sometimes the second cleric that is keeping the tank alive.
the mana flows continiously as long as necessary, because pausing or waiting for others to take over usually doesn't work out very well.
Then there is also RB which costs the same as BB; mostly to help the veno heal while tanking, but also increases weapon attack damage bonusses which can make well equiped high level DD's grab aggro. So you have to be able to switch fast either to group heal, IH, Stream of Rejuvenation or BB.

In the end, all kinds of different pots are used to get mana:
concentrate orbs as a base
cheap event pots for BB
other apo pots to get mana when not doing BB
apo pots that give you sparks on occasion
(HP pots and HP/MP pots don't get used much unless in sticky situations)

It mostly comes down to about 75 pots or a bit more (100) if there are hiccups during the run and a couple of orbs (7 usually does it) and maybe some other pots. All in all this shouldn't cost you more then about 150k for a 2-2 or 2-3 run not counting damage or other costs if you happen to die.

ino20 · February 2010

Maybe some people even at lvl101 like to make simple question way to complicated or maybe they simply dont understand the REAL question here, b:chuckleb:chuckle

let me rephrase again, (please read properly, i dont want to see mana cost,pots,charms,yadda yadda, this is already in other threads) b:shutup

why do the higher level cleric who does DD apart from 2x BB get mat pick first then a 5 level lower cleric who does most of BB and RB? I want to know this reason and only this reason, please dont make this thread into another pick/choice etc

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · February 2010

Roseddesor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes it can be very cheep to be a Cleric using the right methods, however we already got every one assuming it aint.. and we won't be so quick to let that slip mwuaaaa xD xD

That and tons of clerics for some reason don't know how to be a cleric for cheap. I've seen some clerics that were convinced that they absolutely had to have an MP charm for HH, and that running HH without a MP charm was impossible. Even in squads that were experienced and knew what they were doing.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · February 2010

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just wurlord can be 4 times 7-8 min. Not to mention the peer pressure from the group to put up BB because of damage reduction or because they fear they might draw aggro.

28x60x100/5000= 33 pots, that's just for this boss

2-3 Wurlord only has 895k hp. If it takes you 7 min to kill him, you're doing 2130 DPS. My herc alone can do that without reflect on. A decent group should be able to drop him in 2 minutes tops. For comparison, 3-1 Djinscream has 1.4 million hp and gets progressively stronger damage reduction buffs with each passing minute, and you MUST kill him within 4 minutes. Last time my 3-veno + cleric group killed him, we did it in 1 min 8 sec flat.

See, this is why DDs complain so much about the loot distribution system. The reason it takes you so long to kill Wurlord and why your costs are so high is because you don't have enough DDs. A DD by his/her presence is already lowering your mana costs by allowing the squad to kill stuff quicker. Start with a barb + cleric. Add 1 DD and you've more than halved the time it takes to kill stuff. Add a 2nd DD and it's now less than 1/3rd the time. etc.

Quicker kills means you don't have to heal as much, and the barb doesn't have to tank as long, so your costs are lower. They DDs have already contributed to lowering the costs for the cleric and tank. Yet for some strange reason those two demand further compensation.

(Actually the reason isn't strange. Like I said in the other thread, the cleric and tank are seen as required for the TT, so are in high demand. There are more groups looking to do TT than there are clerics and tanks. So the first and second pick of mats are used as bribes to get them to join a particular group. If you're accepting those bribes, then just suck it up and admit you're accepting bribes. Don't try to come up with silly reasons for why it's justified.)

_Pale - Sanctuary · February 2010

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

That and tons of clerics for some reason don't know how to be a cleric for cheap. I've seen some clerics that were convinced that they absolutely had to have an MP charm for HH, and that running HH without a MP charm was impossible. Even in squads that were experienced and knew what they were doing.

Cool story bro...
Maybe you should roll a cleric and make it your main b:puzzled
You seem to know so well how most clerics are fail, that you must be uberwin
b:scorn

EDIT: Solandri, the reason it takes so long is because the people running the TT are people with lower levels who don't have good gear or weapons. That's why they run the TT in the first place. But ofcourse if you get a high level squad to do it for you it becomes much faster and cheaper. They could all stop trying and just shop their way to good gear like some people. It's obviously cheaper, but you have to respect them for learning the instance the hard way and trying.

To Ino:
He shouldn't. It's because some people can be greedy and people get better offers so they start to expect that to be the norm. Equal sharing is much better. Since you are a cleric, you can make a fair split happen for your group if you find a decent barb to join you.

Have fun b:bye

dodoyaya · February 2010

For this threat, I agree with some ppl said U need ask leader wat U want b4 land. U can leave if they dont primiss U. In other hand, Y cleric pick first?b:chuckle I'm a Veno almost all the time, My herc tank I use AMP and S-Degeneration(cut boss HP 20%), cleric just be a DD in our squad,but i never ask for first pick. Come on!! this's just a game just for fun. U need find more friends, then U can get any thing U want. Do U know wat I mean?

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear · February 2010

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cool story bro...
Maybe you should roll a cleric and make it your main b:puzzled
You seem to know so well how most clerics are fail, that you must be uberwin
b:scorn

Agreed.

I see alot of people saying how cheap and easy being a cleric is yet none of them play them or have low level clerics. So why don't you guys play the class and prove all us clerics wrong and that it is infact incredibly cheap and easy?

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(Actually the reason isn't strange. Like I said in the other thread, the cleric and tank are seen as required for the TT, so are in high demand. There are more groups looking to do TT than there are clerics and tanks. So the first and second pick of mats are used as bribes to get them to join a particular group. If you're accepting those bribes, then just suck it up and admit you're accepting bribes. Don't try to come up with silly reasons for why it's justified.)

THIS 10 char

Solandri - Heavens Tear · February 2010

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

EDIT: Solandri, the reason it takes so long is because the people running the TT are people with lower levels who don't have good gear or weapons. That's why they run the TT in the first place. But ofcourse if you get a high level squad to do it for you it becomes much faster and cheaper. They could all stop trying and just shop their way to good gear like some people. It's obviously cheaper, but you have to respect them for learning the instance the hard way and trying.

Requirement to open 2-3 is level 90. My main made 91 a couple days ago. I frequently went into TTs before I could open them (had a higher level friend open it so me and friends could try it). Currently, a friend and I (95 and 91) have been fooling around in FB99 just because we like exploring and trying new and challenging things.

This isn't a matter of high levels rolling over a low level TT. It's a matter of figuring out what's the most effective way to improve your group's performance. In your case, it sounds like you badly need help from more DDs, or the DDs you group with need a lot of help.

Looking at 2-3 Wurlord's stats (4948-14844 attack), he does 9896 raw damage avg. A veno's 60% reflect buff would return 5937 avg per hit. About 80% of that gets through his damage reduction, so he'll take a bit more than 4750 reflect damage per hit. Assume he hits once every 2 seconds. If a veno put the reflect buff on a barb, and the barb just stood there doing nothing while you healed, you should be able to kill Wurlord in 6 min 16 sec. The numbers for 2-1 Wurlord work out slightly better, 6 min 10 sec. This is with nobody doing any damage, relying completely on reflect damage.

_Pale - Sanctuary · February 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Requirement to open 2-3 is level 90. My main made 91 a couple days ago. I frequently went into TTs before I could open them (had a higher level friend open it so me and friends could try it). Currently, a friend and I (95 and 91) have been fooling around in FB99 just because we like exploring and trying new and challenging things.

This isn't a matter of high levels rolling over a low level TT. It's a matter of figuring out what's the most effective way to improve your group's performance. In your case, it sounds like you badly need help from more DDs, or the DDs you group with need a lot of help.

Looking at 2-3 Wurlord's stats (4948-14844 attack), he does 9896 raw damage avg. A veno's 60% reflect buff would return 5937 avg per hit. About 80% of that gets through his damage reduction, so he'll take a bit more than 4750 reflect damage per hit. Assume he hits once every 2 seconds. If a veno put the reflect buff on a barb, and the barb just stood there doing nothing while you healed, you should be able to kill Wurlord in 6 min 16 sec. The numbers for 2-1 Wurlord work out slightly better, 6 min 10 sec. This is with nobody doing any damage, relying completely on reflect damage.

I'm level 84, one opens the instance (lvl 90) the rest needs the mats and are below the required level. maybe add another lvl 90. That's your basic squad.

Squishes don't get brambled, just the tank. If you want to bramble squishes, I have a feeling it will take a lot longer. b:chuckle
Now calculate again.

It really isn't a question if it is possible to run it in 4 times 6 min. It's mostly more in practice. So let it be 6 min and 30 sec instead of 7 min, you think that makes a big difference when you do it 4 times?

But whatever, out to play b:bye

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · February 2010

Solandri calculated a barb with bramble on doing nothing and standing there with no dd will beat a round of wurlord in 6 minutes.

You are saying it takes your full squad 7 minutes. Really yeah any squad that can do 3-1 djinn should do wurlord in about 2 minutes. Both are tt90 bosses.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · February 2010

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

Squishes don't get brambled, just the tank. If you want to bramble squishes, I have a feeling it will take a lot longer. b:chuckle
Now calculate again.

That's what I said. Only the barb gets brambled. (Course it's possible you're having arcanes tank Wurlord, which is a tactic which works too but is significantly less time-efficient).

I'm level 84, one opens the instance (lvl 90) the rest needs the mats and are below the required level. maybe add another lvl 90. That's your basic squad.
...
It really isn't a question if it is possible to run it in 4 times 6 min. It's mostly more in practice. So let it be 6 min and 30 sec instead of 7 min, you think that makes a big difference when you do it 4 times?

So we've pretty much established that your TT runs are highly atypical, and thus invalid as a general example of cleric cost. 6-7 minutes per Wurlord kill is pretty much worst-case and highly inefficient. I'd suggest looking into adding a veno for Amp and pet damage, using both cleric defense debuffs extensively, and maybe a BM for their amp. An archer's sharpened tooth arrow can shave a minute off the time too. You should be able to get that down to 3-4 min easy, maybe even 2-3 min.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(Actually the reason isn't strange. Like I said in the other thread, the cleric and tank are seen as required for the TT, so are in high demand. There are more groups looking to do TT than there are clerics and tanks. So the first and second pick of mats are used as bribes to get them to join a particular group. If you're accepting those bribes, then just suck it up and admit you're accepting bribes. Don't try to come up with silly reasons for why it's justified.)

Hmmm i have to disagree.

I personally think this system was based on pricing of each class to do a run (pre anni pack).

DDs don't 'need' mana pots/charms to be able to do take part and do well (all except wizards have normal attack anyway), theirs is more a luxury than a necessity.

However, a cleric 'needs' to be charmed of have event pots to be able to keep the squad alive so our costs are more expensive, a cleric goes trough alot of pots/charm each run varying on the squad (BB 100mp/sec so 1 herb yuanxiao lasts 50 seconds, how many other classes go through that much generally?).

The order was true to costs per a role as clerics needed to be charmed, no-one else did. The tank often incurred the largest repair bill (except a tanking veno) so it isn't a bribe in anyway shape or form.

If someone wants a higher pick they should sub, if they don't want to then simply shut up and deal with your place in the picking order.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmmm i have to disagree.

I personally think this system was based on pricing of each class to do a run (pre anni pack).

DDs don't 'need' mana pots/charms to be able to do take part and do well (all except wizards have normal attack anyway), theirs is more a luxury than a necessity.

However, a cleric 'needs' to be charmed of have event pots to be able to keep the squad alive so our costs are more expensive, a cleric goes trough alot of pots/charm each run varying on the squad (BB 100mp/sec so 1 herb yuanxiao lasts 50 seconds, how many other classes go through that much generally?).

The order was true to costs per a role as clerics needed to be charmed, no-one else did. The tank often incurred the largest repair bill (except a tanking veno) so it isn't a bribe in anyway shape or form.

If someone wants a higher pick they should sub, if they don't want to then simply shut up and deal with your place in the picking order.

If your argument was right clerics would get first pick as they incur in generally higher expenses than a barb. A competent wizard's expenses may also be higher than a barb's and can match a cleric's, if he's efficiently performing his DD role. I disagree that performing your class role at top capacity is a luxury, as Solandri eloquently explained this will allow a run's costs to be more evenly shared by the squad and reduce the burden of barbs and clerics.

And Hunter, i have respectfully addresed your point, you're more than welcome to ignore any of my arguments although i'll point out i am at full liberty to counter any point presented in forum conversation. If you make it personal, and in any way post something i may find offensive, i will take the issue up to GMs through the ticketing system.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

...

Please dont quote me im not interested in anything you have to say, kthnxbai b:bye.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

That and tons of clerics for some reason don't know how to be a cleric for cheap. I've seen some clerics that were convinced that they absolutely had to have an MP charm for HH, and that running HH without a MP charm was impossible. Even in squads that were experienced and knew what they were doing.

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cool story bro...
Maybe you should roll a cleric and make it your main b:puzzled
You seem to know so well how most clerics are fail, that you must be uberwin
b:scorn

He's right. As much as it hurts me to admit he was finally right about something.

I can't count the number of foolish clerics I have met that don't believe they can do anything, especially TT without a MP charm. There are tons of ways to play a cleric at low cost in TT runs.

TT drop pick choice

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