Demon/Sage IH - What you prefer?

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  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I prefer demon IH for the added mp benefit while tanking. I've tanked AE charmless with two demon clerics and I only got around 14k hp in tiger. I'm demon also.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Did you read wrong? or is it that you just telling me that I am lied about tanking AE at 55? b:laugh

    Of course I did not tank AE before. I didn't say that I tanked AE <_< OMG seriously. Please tell me your just telling me this lol

    so you tanked 2-3... but not ae. what you do... walk in there and walk back out?
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  • Khalfani - Harshlands
    Khalfani - Harshlands Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So uhm, does the Ironheart heal 10% more of its base healing? Or 10% of the hp of the character you're healing? I'm guessing it's the former... but it would be a pleasant surprise if the latter was true.
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  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    says he who claims sages are better because of a 100 mana burn over 15s every time the poison goes off... or because a longer slow means something special when you can 3 shot mobs your level...

    please just stop, youre going to beat me with your experience in being stupid.

    ..................... your saying that, with demon, I never once said sage is better than demon. But your saying demon is better than sage. kthxbai wafflefail. Have fun failing b:bye
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  • Rabid_Cleric - Harshlands
    Rabid_Cleric - Harshlands Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    So uhm, does the Ironheart heal 10% more of its base healing? Or 10% of the character you're healing? I'm guessing it's the former... but it would be a pleasant surprise if the latter was true.

    Hum...i believe that it heals 10% of the total healing - 1200hp+35%Mattk
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  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ..................... your saying that, with demon, I never once said sage is better than demon. But your saying demon is better than sage. kthxbai wafflefail. Have fun failing b:bye
    Don't bash on sages, as far as I know, I rather be sage than demon on any char
    you said this.

    then this
    Sage wizards kite better than demon wizards with the increased slow duration of gush, which means they have more survivability than the demon or standard wizard, with gush. Apparently they'll be touched less. They have better elemental defense bonus, they are mage tankers after all.
    ....
    Sage archers, lets seee...?
    frost arrow becomes elemental with water damage, which is useful against fire elemental mobs. Mana burn for PVP which MOST PEOPLE HATE TO FACE. Max HP reduction and damage reduction from barrage of arrows.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=608692&page=7 all here in black and white

    seriously, you walking talking oxymoron, just stop while you have a shred of your dignity
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  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ..................... your saying that, with demon, I never once said sage is better than demon. But your saying demon is better than sage. kthxbai wafflefail. Have fun failing b:bye

    You said trolls are stupid in your sig - which is a fair opinion - the only problem is your trolling now, so does this make you double stupid?

    OT : I think because level 10 can pretty much keep most people alive anyway the added mp recovery from demon would make a demon cleric more attractive that a sage (this is just my thoughts so no raging b:chuckle) because it will help keep the tanks and others costs down in instances such as TT and FF. However, sage IH would certainly help keep the countless idiots out their alive longer when we have the displeasure of them joining our squads.

    @Waffle: Your making me feel sorry for Yulk b:chuckle.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Did you read wrong? or is it that you just telling me that I am lied about tanking AE at 55? b:laugh

    Of course I did not tank AE before. I didn't say that I tanked AE <_< OMG seriously. Please tell me your just telling me this lol
    Tell me I'm telling you that you're telling me that I told you that you told me you lied.

    Shouldn't you be tanking FFs or tanking 2-3 runs for your 90 gear at 55?
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ^ This made me lulz. +1
    I call it how I see it.
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  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Such hatred in this thread! o.O I predict a lock...

    On-topic... I'd prefer demon IH myself, though my cleric alt would probably go sage just because it suits her theme better. If I were tanking, unless I was certain that that 10% would make the difference between life or death, I'd prefer the MP.

    Magic-tanks, for instance, could attack continuously without worrying much at all about potions. This is true to a lesser extent for physical attackers as well.

    Perhaps one of the clerics isn't charmed and the other is? Perhaps you have a sage cleric and a demon cleric in the party, and the sage one isn't charmed? The demon cleric heals the sage cleric in-between DDing while the sage cleric heals the tank without losing much (if any) MP.

    And let's not forget the simple luxury of recovering all one's MP by spamming a single skill (I don't count the sage skill which does the same here - I think it's Celestial Guardian Seal? - because that'd overwrite any recovery powders the cleric may be using).

    I dunno, seems to me that Demon IH has far more uses than Sage IH, which is focused on simple statistical perfection.



    But then, I'm not anywhere near 89 yet and I'm going to go Sage Archer, so I clearly don't care about such perfection as it is. I'm a huge minimalist in terms of CS usage and I'm sure as hell not paying current coin prices for charms. Hence, I'm just waiting for the day when someone ragequits from my party because my BM or cleric is not "serious enough" or something. I will laugh so very hard on that day. XD

    If you can't tank it or you can't heal it, don't do it. The world won't end if you can't acquire your Uberweapon du jour. :P
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  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    2. Yeah, an IH would be like a level 60 potion if the potion had a cooldown period of like 1-3 seconds. But it doesn't, so that's one horrendous rationale. Secondly, you don't have a 100mp loss when you incur the 400mp loss right away to cast it whereas the 300 is over time, meaning you can empty your mp pool out rather quickly and you'll still need to pot. One of the dumbest ideas one could have about demon IH is regenerating one's own mp pool with it, and you did just that.

    Sorry... either you can't read or you can't make sense of a logical argument. I never said that using Demon Ironheart your could fully regenerate your mana pool during an AoE grind. I merely suggested it would mitigate the cost of the spell; I'm well aware that the bonus is 300 over 15 seconds and not 400 instantly. So I'm afraid I did not have "one of the dumbest ideas" about Demon Ironheart, you've merely had one of the dumbest ideas about me.
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Plus, you referenced a topic where primarily other classes besides clerics said how much they prefer demon IH, which is a no brainer given level 10 is still pretty strong, and they don't have to **** their mp charm or use mp pots. But again, clerics are not responsible for their mp, and those level 60 pots you referenced, for mp, would keep, at very least, a barb's mp pool just fine. The same comparable HP pots wouldn't do that. You just downplayed heals which are used to keep people alive, now that is a brilliant idea.

    Okay... clerics are the ideal support class of other classes. The majority of these other classes prefer that we recover a bit of their mana (remember their mana pool is often much smaller then our own) then heal more, unnecessarily. So why is it wrong that we help them the way they like to be helped? I'm not going to say, "Woah, its not my job to help you with your mana. I'll heal you more even though you don't need it, because I'm a cleric!" I want to help my squads in the best way possible, and that is why I started the cited thread with the intent of finding out what they preferred.

    I'm not downplaying anything. Sage Ironheart heals an amazing amount of health. I'm merely arguing that the majority of the people would prefer the mana recovery to an overpowered healed. Sage Ironheart is not "the heals used to keep people alive", you yourself admitted above that its "a no brainer given level 10 is still pretty strong".

    If you wish to continue this argument please do so through PMs.

    _________________________________________ At the above post.

    Miugre... Demon Ironheart's mana recovery is, sadly, not as powerful as you describe it above. It can certainly recover the mana of a blademaster AoEing or barbarian tanking. However, it can't be used to replenish the mana of a casting cleric or wizard. Magical classes simply pour out power. Moreover, it costs the cleric 400 per cast, so 100 mana is still being lost to the squad with each use. Nonetheless, it certainly helps. Demonic Ironheart is not the end all be all. Sage Ironheart is an incredible spell, people will be lucky to have your cleric in their squad.
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  • Suiryujin - Sanctuary
    Suiryujin - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i find it funny no one has brought up PvP/Tw in regards to this demon/sage IH choice.

    if its PvE really, it doesnt matter, your tank should be able to survive on lvl 10 IH and in most cases, u do not plan for ur cleric to have either sage or demon. those demon/sage IH are expensive and only few clerics can pay for it. in that regard, i would say Demon IH is better for PvE since if ur tank will live with lvl 10 IH, extra hp heal isnt needed nor a big deal so mp regen > extra heal in that case.

    if we take into account PvP/TW, sage IH no question asked. >.> unless someone actually need to be explain the reason why?

    while i am on PvE server and i dont PK much, but just on TW usefulness alone i would say i prefer sage IH just because it is THAT much better in PvP situatons.
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  • drmarley
    drmarley Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The thing I don't understand about people who flock to sage for IH is - Demons have Demon Stream @ 99 - easily the best heal in the game.


    It's a cheap skill too. Hella easier to get demon stream than IH (although I have both).
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Im sage cleric. I have sage IH.
    But i can demon IH too.
    All i have to do is pass the tank lv30 mp pots.
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sorry... either you can't read or you can't make sense of a logical argument. I never said that using Demon Ironheart your could fully regenerate your mana pool during an AoE grind. I merely suggested it would mitigate the cost of the spell; I'm well aware that the bonus is 300 over 15 seconds and not 400 instantly. So I'm afraid I did not have "one of the dumbest ideas" about Demon Ironheart, you've merely had one of the dumbest ideas about me.
    Strange how you claim I cannot read when it's you who cannot, once again. Did anyone mention the word "fully"? Was that even iterated? No. Not even close. Try again. Even mentioning demon IH in regards to your own mp is fail because you burn far more than you could ever put in and it's not a benefit to you in the slightest bit. As you mention later in this post, to others. The mere fact that you tied it to supporting yourself is hilarious, and that you claim I can't read when it's you guilty of this is even more-so.
    Okay... clerics are the ideal support class of other classes. The majority of these other classes prefer that we recover a bit of their mana (remember their mana pool is often much smaller then our own) then heal more, unnecessarily. So why is it wrong that we help them the way they like to be helped? I'm not going to say, "Woah, its not my job to help you with your mana. I'll heal you more even though you don't need it, because I'm a cleric!" I want to help my squads in the best way possible, and that is why I started the cited thread with the intent of finding out what they preferred.

    I'm not downplaying anything. Sage Ironheart heals an amazing amount of health. I'm merely arguing that the majority of the people would prefer the mana recovery to an overpowered healed. Sage Ironheart is not "the heals used to keep people alive", you yourself admitted above that its "a no brainer given level 10 is still pretty strong".
    You completely overlooked what was iterated. Where did the other 88 levels go? Since when were you ever responsible for healing somebody's mp pool throughout this time? You can just as easily pass a barb or bm mp pots and it have the same effect. It's established that clerics are not mp healers. While it is indeed a bonus to have when one goes demon and gets the skill, it is not a cleric's job to heal mp nor be responsible for it. I'm sure everyone would want a cleric to have sage or demon revive, too, if they were polled, and I'm sure they don't mind you paying 25-50m for it, however, they are indeed doing it not for the squad's or your benefit, but their own concerning xp loss, and this is the same rationale you work with, which is highly flawed. You should also consider the tone you have toward sage IH, that it's somehow "overpowered" -- there is no such thing. Sage IH heals hp which is exactly what a cleric is responsible for. It heals significantly more than demon therefore it is a better IH. Simple as that. I don't even care about people who prefer demon or sage, but indeed certain skills are better than others, and I'm quite a fan of taking a dump over misinformation and fanboyism that you display. Someone mentioned demon stream being better than sage -- they are correct. Not only does it heal the same as sage, but it also gives a pdef boost which is primarily what clerics are healing tanks for -- physical dmg. For the very same reasons, one cannot argue with either. Sure, a person can prefer to heal mp and that is a benefit to whoever they are healing (minus themselves), however, it is not a better heal merely because it can heal mp, as that is not a cleric's responsibility in this game.
  • Jeagerjaques - Lost City
    Jeagerjaques - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As the topic states, "Demon/Sage IH, What you prefer". So why all the flaming? b:chuckle
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  • ExELFine - Heavens Tear
    ExELFine - Heavens Tear Posts: 362 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For tank healing, which is the primary role of a full support cleric...

    Corrected :)
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Corrected :)
    Made no sense at all, but okay. I can heal and DD in most cases. b:chuckle

    No cleric needs to be a full support or full attack or full anything.
  • Ussichu - Sanctuary
    Ussichu - Sanctuary Posts: 429 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    .... This is why i always say Demon is the better PvE healer... it is more preferred b:chuckle (plus the pdef heal)
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  • joemann
    joemann Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would like to say I am a demon cleric and the reasons I chose that were for demon IH, demon rez, and demon purify. Demon IH is weaker than sage yes but I can solo heal ae ( I have 85 base vit ) with no charm ticks, I can solo 3-3 with no charm ticks so for me I would rather go demon.

    Someone said you can not replenish your mana with demon IH because it heals 300 mana over 15 secs but costs 400 mana (this is a long process but free mana none the less). I simply cast it 3 times then meditate for 15 secs because during meditation the rate doubles therefore you do get free mana when you are grinding alone.

    The mana heal is not the same as mana pots because like IH heals the mana heals stack, so if ae drains my barbs mana he will always be getting enough back to use some skills to keep agro until I can purify him.

    Also people do not realize but if you stack demon IH on a veno or wizzy or another cleric you can replenish their entire mp bar in about 20-30 secs. Countless times my veno wife goes afk while tanking a boss and its my job to refill her mana or we all die (lucky me). Now you might say what if the barb dies due to you not having enough heal (I already said this is not possible but for the sake of argument) or he gets debuffed and you don't notice (a good cleric always notices). With demon rez, I can rez the barb in 3 secs instead of 6 and have him ready to go. Another squad member might die in that time but the barb gets back up then you can rez the other squad member and because demon has no exp lose the most u lose is a charm tick or 2. Where with sage rez you might get canceled before you can finish casting.

    For TW yes sage IH heals more but IMO that extra 10% heal is more than made up for with a 3 second rez and an ability to purify whenever you need to with no chi cost. Sage rez does extend to 40 meters but a cleric is always within healing distant of barb (28 meters) and demon rez is 28 meters so uh why do we need to rez from so far? Wouldn't you rather rez in half the time before you get stunned by a pesky bm or a nix starts pecking your face off.

    Sages and demons both have very good skills and there is a bunch of sage skills i wish I could learn instead (like sirens kiss,or instant chi) but I am happy with my choice. Right now I have all my TW needed skills and if you put a sage cleric and demon cleric on a catbarb and they can work well together then sit back and watch the magic.

    In conclusion I personally liked demon IH better and that is why I picked it but me acquiring this skill and rez and purify were alot of luck more than anything else, So take into effect how much these skills cost also. My job is to keep my squad alive and I am confident that I can do just that (excluding TW) so demon was right for me.
  • Boozer - Lost City
    Boozer - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I prefer demon IH, than i dont have to use mp pots b:cute

    And the extra heal from sage is hardly noticeable. Build and weapon refine is more noticeable when it comes to heals. I guess the sage IH if you're pulling a cata in TW.

    If a demon really needs to max out healing abilities they can just use spirits gift to self buff 150% for more mag attack.

    Demon clerics seems to have slightly better skills, even tho im not a cleric myself. But skills like spirits gift, thunder wield demon really seems superior. Alltho sage has a few better support/defense skills like vanguard spirit b:dirty.

    But demon classes in general does seem to get better lvl 11 skills over all. The few advantages sage classes gets can in many bases be achieved with genies now, like the extra chi.
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Against tough mobs/bosses/world bosses, I suppose tanks(or the caster) will appreciate the added heals from sage IH.

    In other scenarios, the added MP from demon IH helps to save some mana pots.
  • Boozer - Lost City
    Boozer - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Totally forgot how amazing demon ress and demon sleep is b:heart

    Sage really only better to heal cata in TW or hard bosses, all tho i dont know more than 3-4 bosses where u even need more than lvl 10 heals to get by. Its like Harpy Wraith and a few WB. Even a lvl 80 cleric can heal for 3-3 and Lunar etc with no charm ticks.
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I assume we are only talking about preference (of the recipients) between sage and demon IH?

    Anyways, more healing power is always better, especially when it can be stacked. Besides, a dead tank can mean a party wipe.
  • VILKASS - Sanctuary
    VILKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Demon b:dirty No annoying mp pots b:kiss
    But overall don't care much.
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  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Strange how you claim I cannot read when it's you who cannot, once again. Did anyone mention the word "fully"? Was that even iterated? No. Not even close. Try again. Even mentioning demon IH in regards to your own mp is fail because you burn far more than you could ever put in and it's not a benefit to you in the slightest bit. As you mention later in this post, to others. The mere fact that you tied it to supporting yourself is hilarious, and that you claim I can't read when it's you guilty of this is even more-so.
    I don't care if you don't used the exact words I use when I describe your arguments. I feel I am presenting the ideas just as you have presented them. However, its my turn to change my tone.

    You are a small minded person who cannot accept that others may have a valid point. With the failing of your logic you resort to unfounded accusations. I am offering absolutely no incorrect information. You are completely unreasonable in saying the Demon Ironheart does not mitigate the cost of its used when it is used on yourself. It restores 75% of the mana used. If that is insignificant to you are ****. How does this not benefit me in the slightest bit? Mana is what runs out first when a skilled cleric is soloing either one on one or against multiple monsters to AoE (when we stack Ironheart on ourselves the most).

    When I was talking to the other poster I was merely informing them that it was not a spell that you could use to endless replenish mana. I think you would agree they were under a false impression? READ my post, before you you flame. I think the mere fact that I was outlining its severe limitations makes it clear that I'm not suffering from ridiculous "fanboyism".
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You completely overlooked what was iterated. Where did the other 88 levels go? Since when were you ever responsible for healing somebody's mp pool throughout this time? You can just as easily pass a barb or bm mp pots and it have the same effect. It's established that clerics are not mp healers. While it is indeed a bonus to have when one goes demon and gets the skill, it is not a cleric's job to heal mp nor be responsible for it.

    I am responsible for supporting my squad. Whether that means reviving them, healing them, purifying them, or even if I can helping them keep up their mana up that is what I will do. I disagree that clerics are not "mp healers". Demons and Sages can both do it using the effects on there buffs. Or will you not get your Sage Spirit Gift, because you aren't a "mp healer"? It recovers 900 mana! Even more than Demon Ironheart!
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm sure everyone would want a cleric to have sage or demon revive, too, if they were polled, and I'm sure they don't mind you paying 25-50m for it, however, they are indeed doing it not for the squad's or your benefit, but their own concerning xp loss, and this is the same rationale you work with, which is highly flawed.

    Sorry, so why did I level Revive at all? I want to help out the people my squad. I've spent 208,100 spirit and 278,050 coins learning lv.10, not deriving any direct personal benefit. But I still did! And I bet you did to. When my squad members die because they made a mistake - or I did - I want the penalty to be as small as possible. This is supporting my squad. That is my job as a cleric.
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You should also consider the tone you have toward sage IH, that it's somehow "overpowered" -- there is no such thing. Sage IH heals hp which is exactly what a cleric is responsible for. It heals significantly more than demon therefore it is a better IH. Simple as that. I don't even care about people who prefer demon or sage, but indeed certain skills are better than others...
    Really? The point of this thread is to find out what our possible future squad members will prefer. If you don't care about this you don't need to be posting your flames here.
    Yes, I said Sage Ironheart is overpowered. It is. Its healing power is not necessary as far as I can tell. Very few of my 90+ cleric friends have either. Neither boost in healing power is required. (Oh, yes, in case you forgot: Demon IH heals more then IH-10 as well). However, given the choice BOTH polls demonstrate our squads prefer us to assist with their mana. That is the point of this topic and both polls.
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ... and I'm quite a fan of taking a dump over misinformation and fanboyism that you display. Someone mentioned demon stream being better than sage -- they are correct. Not only does it heal the same as sage, but it also gives a pdef boost which is primarily what clerics are healing tanks for -- physical dmg. For the very same reasons, one cannot argue with either. Sure, a person can prefer to heal mp and that is a benefit to whoever they are healing (minus themselves- How is helping my squad do better not helping me?), however, it is not a better heal merely because it can heal mp, as that is not a cleric's responsibility in this game.
    You've just made the argument I've been trying to make. The added demonic effect may be more valuable in supporting then a more powerful sage heal. You argued this for Stream of Rejuvenation and I argued this for Ironheart Blessing.
    Sage Stream of Rejuvenation gains 30% more chi than the Demonic version. Chi means sparks. Sparks mean magical power. Magical power is healing. If supporting your squad meant only focusing on stronger healing the Sage version is the better option. But, by and large, people have agreed the added demonic bonus supports the squad in an additional way that is preferable to the potential for stronger healing. Yes I'm being nit-picky.

    I did not claim that that Demon Ironheart was the better heal. I argued the general agreement is that is more useful. There is a difference. Its breaks down to my idea of Demon Ironheart being a weaker heal but more versatile spell. I would have been totally okay if you disagreed with me, however you've proceeded to insult me and spout garbage on these forums. There's enough of that for a landfill: don't add to it. If you bother to reply, please send me a personal message.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I would say they are both good and I am not sure what I would prefer.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Magiere - Dreamweaver
    Magiere - Dreamweaver Posts: 395 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »
    So uhm, does the Ironheart heal 10% more of its base healing? Or 10% of the hp of the character you're healing? I'm guessing it's the former... but it would be a pleasant surprise if the latter was true.

    It ain't based on character's hp, neither of your total heal.

    It's a +10% based on your magic attack.
    So its 1200hp + 45% of magic attack instead of 1200hp + 35%.
    Originally written by Satchiko to me regarding old spice commercial :
    Hello Perfect World. Look at your cleric, now back to me, now back to your cleric, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me. But if you stopped being a noob and started wearing sunglasses you could act like you're me. Look down, back up, where are you? You're on Dreamweaver with the cleric your cleric could be like. What's in your hand, back at me. It's an inventory filled with the gear you want. Look again, the gear is now diamonds. Anything is possible with sunglasses. I'm flying on starter wings.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yes, I said Sage Ironheart is overpowered. It is. Its healing power is not necessary as far as I can tell. Very few of my 90+ cleric friends have either. Neither boost in healing power is required. (Oh, yes, in case you forgot: Demon IH heals more then IH-10 as well). However, given the choice BOTH polls demonstrate our squads prefer us to assist with their mana. That is the point of this topic and both polls.
    I'm mostly ignoring the rest of your post that focuses extensively on ad hominem and ordering me around to pm's (as you can see, I ignore it).

    Why don't we take a poll. How many people would prefer we pick last in a TT run so they can pick ahead? This would be best for the squad! How many people would prefer we eat the 20-40m+ cost of buying in AH sage/demon revive so we can be their walking GS? This would also be best for the squad!

    If you're really investing that much of your rationale in polls (given your super sized McAspergers focus on it, more than apparent that you've put way too much stock there) and being this centered around unnecessary servitude to a squad over simply keeping them alive, you've certainly done a fantastic job of deluding yourself and exaggerating the role of a cleric merely to justify a simple demon IH.
    Sage Stream of Rejuvenation gains 30% more chi than the Demonic version. Chi means sparks. Sparks mean magical power. Magical power is healing. If supporting your squad meant only focusing on stronger healing the Sage version is the better option. But, by and large, people have agreed the added demonic bonus supports the squad in an additional way that is preferable to the potential for stronger healing. Yes I'm being nit-picky.
    If a sage cleric wants chi, they have a chi skill, which is more efficient than using stream -- it's free. IH is used far more often than stream is, so why burn up one's mp pool for some measly % bonus of chi? Unintelligent is a nice way of putting it.

    And why on earth would I pay such a large handful of coins for spirit's gift? Let me get this straight -- I pay a lot of coins for a skill that doesn't benefit me at all, makes me responsible for more than is (and was ever for the previous 91 levels) necessary, drains my mp pool even more, with nobody else taking responsibility for my mp pool nor mitigating my mp drain (so much for support being reciprocal) to help me help them? Simply amazing. b:chuckle Not really much one can do besides laugh.
  • J_Balt - Heavens Tear
    J_Balt - Heavens Tear Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd prefer to be healed by Demon Ironheart, when tanking. I dont need the extra 10% heal from sage version.

    Any decent barb (Late 80's and up) can tank any TT with Lv.10 Ironheart. So the add on mp regen is more useful than more hp regen.

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