Tired of drawing aggro in BH.

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Somehow, no matter who is fighting, or how many people are fighting it, I always manage to get a monster's attention on me in BH squads. It's probably more annoying for me than it is for my teammates. They say I'm powerful and that's why, but it's still irritating. Even basic spells don't quiet the aggro.

So...help?

kanel321 · February 2010

don't spam your attacks instead space them out. With attack level buff and the charm buff you do lots of damage in BH. Try not using black vodoo if you have issues spacing your attacks out. Wait till aggro is fully established.

Estuary - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I normally make sure the group gets it down a bit before I attack then I space the hits. I can keep from pulling aggro from a lvl 6x barb. I think spacing the hits is what helps the most though.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's probably more annoying for me than it is for my teammates.

I'm willing to bet that's not the case. Not much more frustrating for a tank or a cleric than a DD who draws aggro repeatedly.

I'd say start off with one of your DoTs, and space out your other attacks. I don't use black voodoo when in instances usually either.

Triton - Raging Tide · February 2010

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I normally make sure the group gets it down a bit before I attack then I space the hits. I can keep from pulling aggro from a lvl 6x barb. I think spacing the hits is what helps the most though.

^Do that. If you still get aggro then your only option is to nerf your atk with white vodoo.

XLusca - Heavens Tear · February 2010

If your really lazy then just keep white voodoo at level 1 and use it in bhs and stuff, you can attack normally without the risk of drawing aggro

It just uses more mana than spacing out your attacks does.

Caleon - Dreamweaver · February 2010

i always have a lower level soulsphere in my inventory in case a bm or pet tanks

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

i think that most 'keeping aggro' problems (maybe not in ur case -sry then) are caused by ppl that forgot (never learned?) what 'building aggro' is about

(well, i just see that pretty often lately)

thing is- meh, just cleric, will also often steal aggro from barb if I wont let him to build some mob's hate. b:tired

Aadi - Lost City · February 2010

Or take off your blessing/rings.

Onin - Harshlands · February 2010

My WV and BV are lvl10. I go for the melee/archer mobs with BV, watching when the tank charges to hit then i cast DoT(depending from the mob, sometimes all DoTs or + some debuff). That time of casting is usually enough for the tank to steal some aggro, then I start with heavy dmg but make sure to combine with Earth Vector or Glacial Shards to imbo/stun it in case the mob decides to go after me(but never use those AoEs if there is another mob un-attacked next to that one). If I aggro it I switch to WV or cast Psy Will fast and go other way(so others take it) or fight back if its near death(usually it IS, because of the DoTs) with Landslide or Soulburn 1st then some others.
Magic attacking mobs can be tanked with BV. Just Soul of Retaliation to be cast before and during fight. Landslide interrupt them so that is the main weapon. Just finish em as fast as possible.
For bosses I start right after tanks 1st hit. Debuffs, then DoTs, then heavy dmg in increasing order(element that is not weak too 1st). Watching all DoTs and needed debuffs to be recasted, heal from aoe yourself and others on the back line if needed. Also SoR always ON when fighting AoE bosses. Its with enough cool-down to take/reflect almost all AoEs.
The idea is to be busy with something else constantly so tank builds more aggro.

No need to degrade. Your artifact should be maxed as hell. No need to space between cast and save mana. Fast casting is psychics priority. And we can shorten the time of the BH runs more than anybody at same level. Just keep yourself safe in a proper way. Try variations that can be best for each type of BHs. And if you are going to do heavy damage to mobs from beginning that should be when cleric is attacked. We are usually on the same back line and we can save him faster than others.

Today I did dosen of FBs and BHs and died just once at Wyver cuz I overdid with the criticals but it was cool XD

kanel321 · February 2010

Onin - Harshlands wrote: »

My WV and BV are lvl10. I go for the melee/archer mobs with BV, watching when the tank charges to hit then i cast DoT(depending from the mob, sometimes all DoTs or + some debuff). That time of casting is usually enough for the tank to steal some aggro, then I start with heavy dmg but make sure to combine with Earth Vector or Glacial Shards to imbo/stun it in case the mob decides to go after me(but never use those AoEs if there is another mob un-attacked next to that one). If I aggro it I switch to WV or cast Psy Will fast and go other way(so others take it) or fight back if its near death(usually it IS, because of the DoTs) with Landslide or Soulburn 1st then some others.
Magic attacking mobs can be tanked with BV. Just Soul of Retaliation to be cast before and during fight. Landslide interrupt them so that is the main weapon. Just finish em as fast as possible.
For bosses I start right after tanks 1st hit. Debuffs, then DoTs, then heavy dmg in increasing order(element that is not weak too 1st). Watching all DoTs and needed debuffs to be recasted, heal from aoe yourself and others on the back line if needed. Also SoR always ON when fighting AoE bosses. Its with enough cool-down to take/reflect almost all AoEs.
The idea is to be busy with something else constantly so tank builds more aggro.

No need to degrade. Your artifact should be maxed as hell. No need to space between cast and save mana. Fast casting is psychics priority. And we can shorten the time of the BH runs more than anybody at same level. Just keep yourself safe in a proper way. Try variations that can be best for each type of BHs. And if you are going to do heavy damage to mobs from beginning that should be when cleric is attacked. We are usually on the same back line and we can save him faster than others.

Today I did dosen of FBs and BHs and died just once at Wyver cuz I overdid with the criticals but it was cool XD

dont listen to the above. There is no need for senseless deaths in BH or FB's.Its easy to take aggro from a barb any class can do it . What makes a good DD is control. BH/FB are a group activity. If mobs start breaking away cause someone is button happy its not good for the group.

PequetteV - Lost City · February 2010

dont use black voodoo if tank close to your level and use your dot sometime it not a big loss in dmg and dont pull agro

Onin - Harshlands · February 2010

kanel321 wrote: »

dont listen to the above. There is no need for senseless deaths in BH or FB's.Its easy to take aggro from a barb any class can do it . What makes a good DD is control. BH/FB are a group activity. If mobs start breaking away cause someone is button happy its not good for the group.

How you got to the decision that I'm "button happy" but not controllable as DD? Probably you didn't understand all that I mean. I've been with other psychics in BH/FB and I see them dieing all the time. So many don't use White Voodoo or DoTs even once. And yes, some are so afraid that hit mobs just once at end.
And yes, its easy to steal aggro from barb. The way I start with DoTs after his 1st hit its enough for him to build aggro and I never get mobs apart(only if I want too).
The only moment you should probably space between skills is when fighting the boss. I always watch the health bar and decide when to space between attacks but DoTs/debuffs/heal fill that space beneficially. The other moment is when you do 2+ criticals in a roll. Then you better space too.
Now at 7x I can tank most of the bosses in BH, so why you think there are even deaths from my side in the BHs?

LiXiuYi - Sanctuary · February 2010

Have had the same problem. People don't understand or don't know how a psy works. There are times when you MUST use white voodoo to survive. There are also times when black voodoo has to be used to do damage quickly. It's either or and you can't just turn them off after use. What I do is test a barbs ability to hold agro on a lesser boss that will not make you kiss the floor on 1-2 hits. If the barb can hold it with black voodoo on great, if not white voodoo an skill away. Don't test agro on a boss that will wipe the floor with you if you pull agro. Some bosses we can tank, others we can't. Check with the squad or give them a heads up to be ready incase you pull when testing. Otherwise just use white voodoo and you can skill away. There are exceptions to every rule though. I've pulled agro even with white voodoo on. Depends on how you skill. If that happens, just white voodoo and use d.o.t.s only.

b:bye

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear · February 2010

From what I've seen, a lot of the problem is also caused by Barbs' apparent obsession with HP. It seems many of them go too far in building Vit, and forget that they need Str to hold aggro more efficiently. Maybe look at your tank's HP, and if it seems insanely high for their level, use that to judge how hard you can hit.

Onin - Harshlands · February 2010

Don't test agro on a boss that will wipe the floor whit you if you pull agro. Some bosses we can tank, others we can't. Check with the squad or give them a heads up to be ready incase you pull when testing. Otherwise just use white voodoo and you can skill away. There are exceptions to every rule though. I've pulled agro even with white voodoo on. Depends on how you skill. If that happens, just white voodoo and use d.o.t.s only.

Agreed!
At lvl10 WV I never steal aggro due to low attack lvl. WV & BV go together in leveling and probably they are very well balanced that way, just learn when and fast to switch.

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »

From what I've seen, a lot of the problem is also caused by Barbs' apparent obsession with HP. It seems many of them go too far in building Vit, and forget that they need Str to hold aggro more efficiently. Maybe look at your tank's HP, and if it seems insanely high for their level, use that to judge how hard you can hit.

Agreed!
In cases like this, same lvl BM or even Sin could be better aggro puller dealing much more dmg and killing it faster.
With some barbs(even much lower than my lvl) we do very well in BHs. They know how to work in team with DD, fighting mobs, and we can even do 3 at once very fast(no lure needed).

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I can't stand sucky DD's that try everything they can to steal aggro.

If you seem to be to strong, wait a bit before you start to hit a mob. Always make sure you attack the same target as the tank (use assit attack).
If you have black vodoo and still draw aggro on a boss, there are 2 things you can do:
Wait before you attack, let the barb build aggro. (always smart to do)
Don't, NEVER attack at full power. It won't help anyone, and only get you killed (and possibly the rest of the squad)
Wait a bit between casts. Also smart. No freaking use to try to steal from the tank, it'll only get the tank, the cleric, and the rest of the freaking squad anoyed (and it's the reason people don't like psy's, cause of that attitude)

EDIT: o right, turn on white vodoo, or relog to just clear black vodoo

saliith · February 2010

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »

From what I've seen, a lot of the problem is also caused by Barbs' apparent obsession with HP. It seems many of them go too far in building Vit, and forget that they need Str to hold aggro more efficiently. Maybe look at your tank's HP, and if it seems insanely high for their level, use that to judge how hard you can hit.

I'm not so sure about that due to the high strength requirement of weapons. As long as the tank is using weapons appropriate for their level this shouldn't be an issue. They cannot dump that many points into vit.

The 2 most common mistakes i see are:

a) DD starts spamming high damage spells too soon or doesn't chill out a bit after crits.

b) Barb does not spam flesh ream enough or even thinks he can semi-afk after a couple of flesh reams.

I've seen quite a few cases where the DD was blamed when it was actually the barbs fault.

Szol - Harshlands · February 2010

The 2 most common mistakes i see are:

a) DD starts spamming high damage spells too soon or doesn't chill out a bit after crits.

b) Barb does not spam flesh ream enough or even thinks he can semi-afk after a couple of fleash reams.

I've seen quite a few cases where the DD was blamed when it was actually the barbs fault.[/QUOTE]

this

plus thread starter was ~ 70 i think when he write this

barbs get better aggro as they increase in lvl

atm to get aggro from a barb ... if have to get some lucky crits - or have some water bosses . that i can get close to

else - with normal dmg rotation . no aggro loss for me - since like lvl 83ish

Shadowvzs - Lost City · February 2010

Caleon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i always have a lower level soulsphere in my inventory in case a bm or pet tanks

i play with wizz and archer mainly and agro was problem sometimes but u can resolve easily:

1. dont spam fast the skills
2. when bm do dragon or boss is hardly debuffed (if not this bm tank) then dont do alot dmg in that time and mainly dont do spark burst XD

Giodia - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Onin - Harshlands wrote: »

My WV and BV are lvl10. I go for the melee/archer mobs with BV, watching when the tank charges to hit then i cast DoT(depending from the mob, sometimes all DoTs or + some debuff). That time of casting is usually enough for the tank to steal some aggro, then I start with heavy dmg but make sure to combine with Earth Vector or Glacial Shards to imbo/stun it in case the mob decides to go after me(but never use those AoEs if there is another mob un-attacked next to that one). If I aggro it I switch to WV or cast Psy Will fast and go other way(so others take it) or fight back if its near death(usually it IS, because of the DoTs) with Landslide or Soulburn 1st then some others.

Magic attacking mobs can be tanked with BV. Just Soul of Retaliation to be cast before and during fight. Landslide interrupt them so that is the main weapon. Just finish em as fast as possible.
For bosses I start right after tanks 1st hit. Debuffs, then DoTs, then heavy dmg in increasing order(element that is not weak too 1st). Watching all DoTs and needed debuffs to be recasted, heal from aoe yourself and others on the back line if needed. Also SoR always ON when fighting AoE bosses. Its with enough cool-down to take/reflect almost all AoEs.
The idea is to be busy with something else constantly so tank builds more aggro.

No need to degrade. Your artifact should be maxed as hell. No need to space between cast and save mana. Fast casting is psychics priority. And we can shorten the time of the BH runs more than anybody at same level. Just keep yourself safe in a proper way. Try variations that can be best for each type of BHs. And if you are going to do heavy damage to mobs from beginning that should be when cleric is attacked. We are usually on the same back line and we can save him faster than others.

Today I did dosen of FBs and BHs and died just once at Wyver cuz I overdid with the criticals but it was cool XD

You died...? That means you must be doing something wrong.

@ OP:

In BH 51, when more than 1 mob is on tanker (barb) only, I will choose the weak element (usually water) AOE to be casted first, that is after the barb has hit it thrice.

Next I follow up with Earth vector to stun the mobs (strong against water) and followed up with sandblast burst. Usually, it should kill the mobs after the second aoe shot.

The key for handling more than a single mob, is to space your shots, watch the moment, know what your tanker can handle.

For boss, I will start with both DOTs and keep them up with occasional single target spells.

At 50% of boss HP, I start casting nukes, with intervals of 2 secs inbetween, stopping longer when I crit.

Whatever DD class one choose, your job is to help the team bring down the common objective in a safe and sound manner.

Though we can cast spells fast, I feel it much safer to space our shots and only increasing the speed of your cast when you feel it's safe to do so.

Also, one good way not to die, is to always allow the tank to get aggro first. The first 10% of the HP is the test of the squad ability to bring down the boss.

Always watch in the sideline and only start when they pass the 10% mark.

For bosses like Zimo, it's easy to interrupt it's casting. It will minimize the damage taken by the tank, making the cleric's job easier, whom both will be grateful for it and score you brownie points.

As a DD, you need to be responsible and able to judge the strength of the squad. By knowing them, you know your limits. b:victory

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I figured out that using Landslide in BHes isn't the best idea. For one thing, it seldom works like it's supposed to, and secondly, it's too powerful. I'm sort of going by what the tank does now, as a lot of people have just stated. Usually I let several people attack first before I do, just in case. I'm not up to bh 51 yet, but I'm getting a lot of practice in 39. The last two bosses in there are easy, but with Farren and his nasty AOE, I simply cast a freezing skill or a magic attack drainer on him while the others wail on him.

But if you get a squad with three or more Psys, we're a force to be reckoned with. :P

Giodia - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I figured out that using Landslide in BHes isn't the best idea. For one thing, it seldom works like it's supposed to, and secondly, it's too powerful. I'm sort of going by what the tank does now, as a lot of people have just stated. Usually I let several people attack first before I do, just in case. I'm not up to bh 51 yet, but I'm getting a lot of practice in 39. The last two bosses in there are easy, but with Farren and his nasty AOE, I simply cast a freezing skill or a magic attack drainer on him while the others wail on him.

But if you get a squad with three or more Psys, we're a force to be reckoned with. :P

When to cast landlside in BH 101:

1. when the back of the mob is facing a wall and casting
2. Bosses that cast spells (for interrupt and will not be knocked back)

Onin - Harshlands · February 2010

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You died...? That means you must be doing something wrong.

@ OP:

In BH 51, when more than 1 mob is on tanker (barb) only, I will choose the weak element (usually water) AOE to be casted first, that is after the barb has hit it thrice.

Next I follow up with Earth vector to stun the mobs (strong against water) and followed up with sandblast burst. Usually, it should kill the mobs after the second aoe shot.

The key for handling more than a single mob, is to space your shots, watch the moment, know what your tanker can handle.

For boss, I will start with both DOTs and keep them up with occasional single target spells.

At 50% of boss HP, I start casting nukes, with intervals of 2 secs inbetween, stopping longer when I crit.

I died because was in a hurry and I did some criticals in a roll without noticing at the beginning. Aaaand I forgot that actually weak BM is tanking b:embarrass

We never steal aggro when casting DoTs after tank 1st hit, but when casting Soulburn on a mob with 1/2hp in Wraithgate I aggroed THE MOB NEXT TO IT that was not attacked by anybody. Hopefully I was saved^^

When 2-3 tanks are attacking 2-3 mobs near each other(or 1 experienced barb is swich-hiting them), I cast DoT on each mob 1st then attack barbs main mob a bit with non-AoE and then Earth Vector> Sandburst Blast> Glacial Shards(or reversed if lack chi). But that's rare situation.

I still dont get the idea with waiting for barb to build aggro and spacing AFTER boss 1/2hp. The only time I wait is DoTs cooldown at the very beginning if I decide tank does really low dmg and cant handle it. Well YOU don't have to experiment tho.

Originally Posted by Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver View Post
I figured out that using Landslide in BHes isn't the best idea.

I forgot to say that I use exactly Landslide when saving clerics cuz atlest interupts them if u cant aggro it with 1st hit. After taking mob on me I switch to WV and hope that clerics understand that he/she have to retun the favour and heal me till I fight it and the mates are on the way.

Darkreserve - Lost City · February 2010

For mine i use max lvl dots and soulburn thats like 2k dmg from dots and 5k from soulbrun and no aggro then if you feel safe cast a normal attack the dots do good dmg and will do the same dmg with white voodoo on so you can take some hits from an aoe boss if you need to

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Easiest way not to grab aggro: white voodoo, if you leveled your skills right, it's not maxed or even over half, and the damage reduction isn't an exact % it's a % of your base magic attack effect in the spell.

ex. white voodoo lvl 2 -59 atk level
spell=100%+3243 damage becomes 41%+3243 damage
if matk min=5129
no voodoo=8372
white voodoo lv 2=5346<---still relatively decent 64% of normal spell in this case
white voodoo lv 10=3756<---lame 45% of normal spell in this case
tada aggro decreased

Giodia - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Onin - Harshlands wrote: »

I still dont get the idea with waiting for barb to build aggro and spacing AFTER boss 1/2hp. The only time I wait is DoTs cooldown at the very beginning if I decide tank does really low dmg and cant handle it. Well YOU don't have to experiment tho.

Reason 101 for waiting 10% HP mark or lower:

1. If tanker dies, DD or cleric will be next.
2. Squad wipe.
3. You survived the wipe because you did not touch the boss at all.

This is to test the squad ability to take the boss.

One thing I hate is I am already running so very very very slow and holy path only helped so much. Wiping and running back especially at BH 51 can be a **** with the patrol mobs.

If you are lucky (half of the time), you will meet the patrol mobs and it's another 3% exp lost. Unless you have GA, but from my experience, having GAs can be costly, especially with Fail squads and leaving squad is the last option that I would consider.

Of course, there are the 'when **** hits the fan' type of situations that happens around 50% HP, I can die happily because I know it's a slip up and my squad is capable of handling the boss.

My method is not the only hard and fast rule around. I'm explaining my position.

They say patience is a virtue. b:chuckle

Onin - Harshlands · February 2010

It depends from our style then ^^
For WV also, tough is not ment to use often and casting nukes with it is a waste of mana.

It seems there are many ways not to take aggro. One thing is sure > DoTs on max for bosses and high hp mobs; nukes and AoEs on max for grinding.
I rather experiment myself since there are not many hints on new classes or not all works better.

They say: Practice makes perfect. b:chuckle

Reico_M - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Two words: White Voodoo.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

i play with wizz and archer mainly and agro was problem sometimes but u can resolve easily:

1. dont spam fast the skills
2. when bm do dragon or boss is hardly debuffed (if not this bm tank) then dont do alot dmg in that time and mainly dont do spark burst XD

WHen I see the BM is about to dragon pole, I quickly double spark + undine + sandstorm and keep my hand on the screenshot button b:laugh

Than I type my awesome dmg if it was good, or cry about how I just missed the dragon

Glowfish - Lost City · February 2010

i used to have a lot of problems with stealing aggro until i learned to space my attacks.

1. wait for the barb to run in and start spamming flesh ream
2. right click on his name and assist attack
3. space out your attacks - wait until whatever you cast is ready to cast again, and then maybe give it another second.

i always use black voodoo if there is a barb - even if he is close to my level. the only time i've drawn aggro recently was when the barb stopped flesh reaming to type.

i also always use attacks that do the highest damage to the mob. the key really is to just space them out. keep an eye on if you crit too, because you'll maybe want to leave it another couple of seconds.

however...different strokes for different folks b:victory

Tired of drawing aggro in BH.

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