Winged Shell Experiment
Legerity - Sanctuary
Posts: 1,072 Arc User
I ran a brief experiment on winged shell.
It appears that the absorption rate is constant around the 80% +-2%. The error is caused by the fluctuating physical attack from the fist and the bow. Bare fists have very consistent absorption percentages and I assume that the reason for not obtaining a clean 0.8 (80%) absorption with bare fists is due to the weird ways PW deals with numbers and rounding.
Red is my reduction to physical
Raw is the calculated raw average damage the attacker inflicts
On is shell active
Off is shell not active
Absorp is the absorption calculated
Condition is pretty self explanatory
I found that a shell with a 1000 capacity means it can negate a shot with 80% absorption even if it breaks the shell in that hit. This means that for PvP purposes, where shells are broken in 1 hit most of the time, the capacity difference between say 1000(D) and 1250(S) is like the difference between 250*5 = 1250 damage from the attacker. If the damage cannot penetrate the shells capacity of 1250, it can withstand another hit with the shell benefit of 80% absorption, even if the shell has "250 hp" left.
For someone to 1 shot you with winged shell active, they'd need to inflict approximately 5 times your maximum HP.
For for someone to kill you through an activated winged shell, they'd need to inflict 5 times your current HP.
Acknowledgements:
Thanks to Quilue for knocking the daylights out of me and wasting my HP pots + genie chi while I was taking down numbers.
It appears that the absorption rate is constant around the 80% +-2%. The error is caused by the fluctuating physical attack from the fist and the bow. Bare fists have very consistent absorption percentages and I assume that the reason for not obtaining a clean 0.8 (80%) absorption with bare fists is due to the weird ways PW deals with numbers and rounding.
Red Raw On Off Absorp Condition 0.443 32028 808 4457 0.819 3sp Take Aim 0.130 20236 937 4403 0.787 Take Aim 0.007 10802 584 2681 0.782 Auto Fire 0.443 4577 129 637 0.798 3sp Fist 0.443 3225 88 449 0.804 2sp Fist 0.443 2211 62 308 0.800 1sp Fist 0.443 1197 34 166 0.799 Fist 0.443 1957 54 272 0.802 3sp Bare Fist 0.443 1379 38 192 0.802 2sp Bare Fist 0.443 945 26 131 0.802 1sp Bare Fist 0.443 512 14 71 0.803 Bare Fist
Red is my reduction to physical
Raw is the calculated raw average damage the attacker inflicts
On is shell active
Off is shell not active
Absorp is the absorption calculated
Condition is pretty self explanatory
I found that a shell with a 1000 capacity means it can negate a shot with 80% absorption even if it breaks the shell in that hit. This means that for PvP purposes, where shells are broken in 1 hit most of the time, the capacity difference between say 1000(D) and 1250(S) is like the difference between 250*5 = 1250 damage from the attacker. If the damage cannot penetrate the shells capacity of 1250, it can withstand another hit with the shell benefit of 80% absorption, even if the shell has "250 hp" left.
For someone to 1 shot you with winged shell active, they'd need to inflict approximately 5 times your maximum HP.
For for someone to kill you through an activated winged shell, they'd need to inflict 5 times your current HP.
Acknowledgements:
Thanks to Quilue for knocking the daylights out of me and wasting my HP pots + genie chi while I was taking down numbers.
Post edited by Legerity - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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I didn't do much to calculate for my experiments, but I've found that demon winged shell absorbs about 50% from ice dragons, which, with a nearly instant cast time, can be a nifty little lifesaver
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Transcend - Lost City wrote: »I didn't do much to calculate for my experiments, but I've found that demon winged shell absorbs about 50% from ice dragons, which, with a nearly instant cast time, can be a nifty little lifesaver
50% seems a little far off with what I've come up with... perhaps if I can politely request you to pay more attention in the future when BIDS from the same person hits you with and without shell?
Also, if others have their own little figures, I'd really appreciate them, provided they aren't fictional.0 -
Very nice. Looks accurate to me. I have never been 1-shot with shell on. I use demon winged shell in dungeons with a party a lot. It's one of my most used skills, it gives you a window to get wings of grace on if you get agro. Very underrated skill. Thank you for the math. Should be put in Elena's links.0
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Legy even got a hug from me in the end. It was hawt and I bet she took screenshots. You can bug her for it -.^Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
When I first tested a few months back, I got hit without shield for ~9.6k, and with shield ~4.4k, from SweetDream who was either 99 or 100 at the time. I just did it twice because charm ticks during duels is no fun, but I have taken 3k dragons in real-world pvp from 9x/10x mages.youtube.com/transcendpw
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Transcend - Lost City wrote: »When I first tested a few months back, I got hit without shield for ~9.6k, and with shield ~4.4k, from SweetDream who was either 99 or 100 at the time. I just did it twice because charm ticks during duels is no fun, but I have taken 3k dragons in real-world pvp from 9x/10x mages.
Dragons are heavily dependant on the base m-attack and the weapon (weapon damage = level+shards+rings+necklace bonus if any+actual weapon) because using sage BIDS as an example, it has a 500% weapon damage modifier and their base magic attack + fixed value (14k) which could translate into a very large variable.
My guess is perhaps someone hit you on the low end without shell and when winged shell was active they hit you towards the higher end of the spectrum creating an inconsistency.0 -
I am having trouble understand what "sp" stands for.
Also, does Demon version says: "Demon version increases maximum duration to 30 seconds and maximum absorb times to 10."
I am interested in the max absorb times. Does this mean that it can only absorb 10 times, even if the total sum damage absorbed is less than 1000, for the demon version? For example, if a level 1 char attacked, could the shell break even before the 1000 damage limit? This might be hard to test, as the level 1 char has to hit 10 times within 30 seconds.0 -
It means mana replenishment ticks 10 times instead of 6, because of the longer duration of the shell. Nothing to do with damage absorption0
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It means mana replenishment ticks 10 times instead of 6, because of the longer duration of the shell. Nothing to do with damage absorption
That was always my assumption, but the difference in language used in the base skill description ("recovers") and the demon text ("absorb") always bothered me.0 -
sp is sparks teapot...sooo
single sparked, 1sp
double sparked, 2sp
triple sparked, 3spElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »Very nice. Looks accurate to me. I have never been 1-shot with shell on. I use demon winged shell in dungeons with a party a lot. It's one of my most used skills, it gives you a window to get wings of grace on if you get agro. Very underrated skill. Thank you for the math. Should be put in Elena's links.
Thank you. I'm glad you found it useful. I have never been killed in a single shot either, unless I had no defense on, which I tried with Quilue. But barring that, shell and grace are the most important skills in PvE for any adventurous Archer who maximises DPS (to maximise DPS, you embark on a "steal" aggro mission and when that is achieved, you need either skill to live... Not sure if your party will dislike you for it, but just let the cleric know not to take their eyes off the tank to switch to you).
PvP wise, it's a life saver as it can act as our "deaden nerves", effectively giving us the ability to take a hit without the huge damage following. This is why I think Demon wingspan is so invaluable. Despite it being a level 5 shell, it can negate a very heavy hit a melee can inflict (remember that shell capacity plays almost no role if shells break in one hit).Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »I am having trouble understand what "sp" stands for.
Also, does Demon version says: "Demon version increases maximum duration to 30 seconds and maximum absorb times to 10."
I am interested in the max absorb times. Does this mean that it can only absorb 10 times, even if the total sum damage absorbed is less than 1000, for the demon version? For example, if a level 1 char attacked, could the shell break even before the 1000 damage limit? This might be hard to test, as the level 1 char has to hit 10 times within 30 seconds.
The table ran out of space and I thought I'd keep it as short as possible. "sp" is short for "spark" as Quilue stated.
steelmyth is correct about the absorb time of 10 meaning it "ticks" 10 times for 80MP each time. This creates a net MP gain of 400MP, compared to Sage's net gain of 80MP and +250 shell capacity. I agree the wording is a bit atrocious... perhaps we can make note of that in the incorrect skill description thread provided people are not against a necro.0 -
excellent, undine + SS or so to break teh shield then go dragon.
yesh yesh
b:avoid
also me like them numbers
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Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »Dragons are heavily dependant on the base m-attack and the weapon (weapon damage = level+shards+rings+necklace bonus if any+actual weapon) because using sage BIDS as an example, it has a 500% weapon damage modifier and their base magic attack + fixed value (14k) which could translate into a very large variable.
My guess is perhaps someone hit you on the low end without shell and when winged shell was active they hit you towards the higher end of the spectrum creating an inconsistency.
Cmon. Demon BIDS has the same 500% weapon damage modifier + base magic attack + 13955 also. lol. ijs.0 -
Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »Cmon. Demon BIDS has the same 500% weapon damage modifier + base magic attack + 13955 also. lol. ijs.
I know, it just came out like second nature since when people talk about BIDS it's usually Sage BIDS.
Sorry if it offended you >.>0 -
Is a little chi drainer if u start to wog + shell all day QQ0
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I have also noticed shell seems to handle extremely high values strangely, consistent with trascend's observation.0
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Wow...nearly a two year necro?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Surreal_
Thank you Silvychar for my siggy0 -
AshenSkies - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow...nearly a two year necro?
Guides can be necroed. This was stated by a moderator years back.
This qualifies as a guide, and should not be locked b/c of a necro.0 -
Sorry for the necro
I tested with a wizard with different variables.
Triple spark
Triple spark + undine
Triple spark + undine + elemental shell
Triple spark + undine + elemental shell + Cleric's Spirits Gift
I got the same results as OP when only triple spark was involved of about 79~80%. However. Once buffs and amps were added to the calculation my wingshell absorbed even MORE damage ranging from 85%-98%
I noticed damage was pretty consistant under 1k with shell once wizard buff/debuff were stacked until cleric's spirits gift was applied. Thoughts?
Edit for side note: I applied winged shell after undine for full effect. If it absorbs undine as well it only absorbs about 20% of the main skill.No Shell [COLOR="Red"]With Shell[/COLOR] % damage Delt with shell 3 Spark 6565 [COLOR="red"]1255[/COLOR] 19% 6631 [COLOR="red"]1295[/COLOR] 20% 6919 [COLOR="red"]1384[/COLOR] 20% 6742 [COLOR="red"]1273[/COLOR] 19% 3 Spark + Undine 8978 [COLOR="red"]841[/COLOR] 9% 9550 [COLOR="red"]212[/COLOR] 2% 9844 [COLOR="red"]1101[/COLOR] 11% 8874 [COLOR="red"]398[/COLOR] 4% 3 spark + undine + shell 9502 [COLOR="red"]919[/COLOR] 10% 9106 [COLOR="red"]446[/COLOR] 5% 9640 [COLOR="red"]1049[/COLOR] 11% 9731 [COLOR="red"]982[/COLOR] 10% 3 spark + cleric buff + undine + shell 9654 [COLOR="red"]1223[/COLOR] 13% 9173 [COLOR="red"]1440[/COLOR] 16% 10166 [COLOR="red"]1281[/COLOR] 13% 9945 [COLOR="red"]509[/COLOR] 5%
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Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
Don't bother averaging damage values like this. You always will have error and there are plenty of sources of constant damage that will allow you to make an exact measurement:
-Wizard skill like BIDS without a weapon
-A genie attack skill like bramble rage
-A clapping hand in TT
-A swing from the sword in Theater of Blood[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Don't bother averaging damage values like this. You always will have error and there are plenty of sources of constant damage that will allow you to make an exact measurement:
-Wizard skill like BIDS without a weapon
-A genie attack skill like bramble rage
-A clapping hand in TT
-A swing from the sword in Theater of Blood
Well I get this which is why I gave multiple values for the flux. I suppose I could always have increased the amount but the thing that got me was how much shell was absorbing. It exceeded the 80% amount when undine and shell were introduced but spirits gift almost neutralized those putting it closer to 20% again but not quite.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
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KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well I get this which is why I gave multiple values for the flux. I suppose I could always have increased the amount but the thing that got me was how much shell was absorbing. It exceeded the 80% amount when undine and shell were introduced but spirits gift almost neutralized those putting it closer to 20% again but not quite.
Yes you gave multiple values but you had wildly different results within that data and can't account for how much of that was due to error. One of your cases had a spread of 2%-11%. What changed between to make one of those 550% larger than the other? Basically doing it like this just makes any analysis harder and lacks control.
It does look like there might be something afoot but it's hard to say conclusively due to randomness that could have been avoided altogether. Stick with fixed damage attacks and it becomes very easy to see whats going on. If you need it to be magic damage I recommend Bramble Rage or a weaponless BIDS.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes you gave multiple values but you had wildly different results within that data and can't account for how much of that was due to error. One of your cases had a spread of 2%-11%. What changed between to make one of those 550% larger than the other? Basically doing it like this just makes any analysis harder and lacks control.
It does look like there might be something afoot but it's hard to say conclusively due to randomness that could have been avoided altogether. Stick with fixed damage attacks and it becomes very easy to see whats going on. If you need it to be magic damage I recommend Bramble Rage or a weaponless BIDS.
It's not so much as magic damage but increased values and see how it affects to winged shell.
As you can see in the first set when no debuffs and buffs were added to the wizards skill winged shell had a 80% reduction across all 4 tests using the same skill. However once the debuff undine and buff elemental shell were put into play the reduction spiked to as high as 98% granted I believe that is an error by at least 3% but looking at the damage the wizard was hitting with them the range wasn't that drastically different. A varient of about 1k from set 2 and 600 from set 3.
What puzzles me is how in one case wingshell can be hit as high as 1101 and as low as 212 using the same skill and buff sets.
My suspicion is winged shell gives a set amount of defense similar to an apothocary except it can't be reduced. So I may try using low amounts of armor and the same skill sets again. This would explain the reduction in damage from undine. Where once elemental shell and spirits gift were put into play the reduction still wasn't 80% but it was closer to it. So I may try those without undine mixed in as well.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0
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