Winged Shell Experiment

Legerity - Sanctuary

I ran a brief experiment on winged shell.

It appears that the absorption rate is constant around the 80% +-2%. The error is caused by the fluctuating physical attack from the fist and the bow. Bare fists have very consistent absorption percentages and I assume that the reason for not obtaining a clean 0.8 (80%) absorption with bare fists is due to the weird ways PW deals with numbers and rounding.

Red 	Raw	On	Off	Absorp	Condition
0.443	32028	808	4457	0.819	3sp Take Aim
0.130	20236	937	4403	0.787	Take Aim
0.007	10802	584	2681	0.782	Auto Fire
0.443	4577	129	637	0.798	3sp Fist
0.443	3225	88	449	0.804	2sp Fist
0.443	2211	62	308	0.800	1sp Fist
0.443	1197	34	166	0.799	Fist
0.443	1957	54	272	0.802	3sp Bare Fist
0.443	1379	38	192	0.802	2sp Bare Fist
0.443	945	26	131	0.802	1sp Bare Fist
0.443	512	14	71	0.803	Bare Fist	

Red is my reduction to physical
Raw is the calculated raw average damage the attacker inflicts
On is shell active
Off is shell not active
Absorp is the absorption calculated
Condition is pretty self explanatory

I found that a shell with a 1000 capacity means it can negate a shot with 80% absorption even if it breaks the shell in that hit. This means that for PvP purposes, where shells are broken in 1 hit most of the time, the capacity difference between say 1000(D) and 1250(S) is like the difference between 250*5 = 1250 damage from the attacker. If the damage cannot penetrate the shells capacity of 1250, it can withstand another hit with the shell benefit of 80% absorption, even if the shell has "250 hp" left.

For someone to 1 shot you with winged shell active, they'd need to inflict approximately 5 times your maximum HP.

For for someone to kill you through an activated winged shell, they'd need to inflict 5 times your current HP.

Acknowledgements:
Thanks to Quilue for knocking the daylights out of me and wasting my HP pots + genie chi while I was taking down numbers.

Transcend - Lost City

I didn't do much to calculate for my experiments, but I've found that demon winged shell absorbs about 50% from ice dragons, which, with a nearly instant cast time, can be a nifty little lifesaver

Legerity - Sanctuary

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

I didn't do much to calculate for my experiments, but I've found that demon winged shell absorbs about 50% from ice dragons, which, with a nearly instant cast time, can be a nifty little lifesaver

50% seems a little far off with what I've come up with... perhaps if I can politely request you to pay more attention in the future when BIDS from the same person hits you with and without shell?

Also, if others have their own little figures, I'd really appreciate them, provided they aren't fictional.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Very nice. Looks accurate to me. I have never been 1-shot with shell on. I use demon winged shell in dungeons with a party a lot. It's one of my most used skills, it gives you a window to get wings of grace on if you get agro. Very underrated skill. Thank you for the math. Should be put in Elena's links.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Legy even got a hug from me in the end. It was hawt and I bet she took screenshots. You can bug her for it -.^

Transcend - Lost City

When I first tested a few months back, I got hit without shield for ~9.6k, and with shield ~4.4k, from SweetDream who was either 99 or 100 at the time. I just did it twice because charm ticks during duels is no fun, but I have taken 3k dragons in real-world pvp from 9x/10x mages.

Legerity - Sanctuary

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

When I first tested a few months back, I got hit without shield for ~9.6k, and with shield ~4.4k, from SweetDream who was either 99 or 100 at the time. I just did it twice because charm ticks during duels is no fun, but I have taken 3k dragons in real-world pvp from 9x/10x mages.

Dragons are heavily dependant on the base m-attack and the weapon (weapon damage = level+shards+rings+necklace bonus if any+actual weapon) because using sage BIDS as an example, it has a 500% weapon damage modifier and their base magic attack + fixed value (14k) which could translate into a very large variable.

My guess is perhaps someone hit you on the low end without shell and when winged shell was active they hit you towards the higher end of the spectrum creating an inconsistency.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

I am having trouble understand what "sp" stands for.

Also, does Demon version says: "Demon version increases maximum duration to 30 seconds and maximum absorb times to 10."

I am interested in the max absorb times. Does this mean that it can only absorb 10 times, even if the total sum damage absorbed is less than 1000, for the demon version? For example, if a level 1 char attacked, could the shell break even before the 1000 damage limit? This might be hard to test, as the level 1 char has to hit 10 times within 30 seconds.

steelmyth

It means mana replenishment ticks 10 times instead of 6, because of the longer duration of the shell. Nothing to do with damage absorption

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

steelmyth wrote: »

It means mana replenishment ticks 10 times instead of 6, because of the longer duration of the shell. Nothing to do with damage absorption

That was always my assumption, but the difference in language used in the base skill description ("recovers") and the demon text ("absorb") always bothered me.

Quilue - Sanctuary

sp is sparks teapot...sooo

single sparked, 1sp
double sparked, 2sp
triple sparked, 3sp

Legerity - Sanctuary

Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Very nice. Looks accurate to me. I have never been 1-shot with shell on. I use demon winged shell in dungeons with a party a lot. It's one of my most used skills, it gives you a window to get wings of grace on if you get agro. Very underrated skill. Thank you for the math. Should be put in Elena's links.

Thank you. I'm glad you found it useful. I have never been killed in a single shot either, unless I had no defense on, which I tried with Quilue. But barring that, shell and grace are the most important skills in PvE for any adventurous Archer who maximises DPS (to maximise DPS, you embark on a "steal" aggro mission and when that is achieved, you need either skill to live... Not sure if your party will dislike you for it, but just let the cleric know not to take their eyes off the tank to switch to you).

PvP wise, it's a life saver as it can act as our "deaden nerves", effectively giving us the ability to take a hit without the huge damage following. This is why I think Demon wingspan is so invaluable. Despite it being a level 5 shell, it can negate a very heavy hit a melee can inflict (remember that shell capacity plays almost no role if shells break in one hit).

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am having trouble understand what "sp" stands for.

Also, does Demon version says: "Demon version increases maximum duration to 30 seconds and maximum absorb times to 10."

I am interested in the max absorb times. Does this mean that it can only absorb 10 times, even if the total sum damage absorbed is less than 1000, for the demon version? For example, if a level 1 char attacked, could the shell break even before the 1000 damage limit? This might be hard to test, as the level 1 char has to hit 10 times within 30 seconds.

The table ran out of space and I thought I'd keep it as short as possible. "sp" is short for "spark" as Quilue stated.

steelmyth is correct about the absorb time of 10 meaning it "ticks" 10 times for 80MP each time. This creates a net MP gain of 400MP, compared to Sage's net gain of 80MP and +250 shell capacity. I agree the wording is a bit atrocious... perhaps we can make note of that in the incorrect skill description thread provided people are not against a necro.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

excellent, undine + SS or so to break teh shield then go dragon.
yesh yesh
b:avoid

also me like them numbers

Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver

Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dragons are heavily dependant on the base m-attack and the weapon (weapon damage = level+shards+rings+necklace bonus if any+actual weapon) because using sage BIDS as an example, it has a 500% weapon damage modifier and their base magic attack + fixed value (14k) which could translate into a very large variable.

My guess is perhaps someone hit you on the low end without shell and when winged shell was active they hit you towards the higher end of the spectrum creating an inconsistency.

Cmon. Demon BIDS has the same 500% weapon damage modifier + base magic attack + 13955 also. lol. ijs.

Legerity - Sanctuary

Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Cmon. Demon BIDS has the same 500% weapon damage modifier + base magic attack + 13955 also. lol. ijs.

I know, it just came out like second nature since when people talk about BIDS it's usually Sage BIDS.

Sorry if it offended you >.>

ineye11

Is a little chi drainer if u start to wog + shell all day QQ

Sint - Harshlands

I have also noticed shell seems to handle extremely high values strangely, consistent with trascend's observation.

AshenSkies - Heavens Tear

Wow...nearly a two year necro?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

AshenSkies - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow...nearly a two year necro?

Guides can be necroed. This was stated by a moderator years back.

This qualifies as a guide, and should not be locked b/c of a necro.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Sorry for the necro

I tested with a wizard with different variables.

Triple spark

Triple spark + undine

Triple spark + undine + elemental shell

Triple spark + undine + elemental shell + Cleric's Spirits Gift

I got the same results as OP when only triple spark was involved of about 79~80%. However. Once buffs and amps were added to the calculation my wingshell absorbed even MORE damage ranging from 85%-98%

I noticed damage was pretty consistant under 1k with shell once wizard buff/debuff were stacked until cleric's spirits gift was applied. Thoughts?

Edit for side note: I applied winged shell after undine for full effect. If it absorbs undine as well it only absorbs about 20% of the main skill.

No Shell		[COLOR="Red"]With Shell[/COLOR]		% damage Delt with shell
3 Spark				
6565		[COLOR="red"]1255[/COLOR]		19%
6631		[COLOR="red"]1295[/COLOR]		20%
6919		[COLOR="red"]1384[/COLOR]		20%
6742		[COLOR="red"]1273[/COLOR]		19%
				
3 Spark + Undine				
8978		[COLOR="red"]841[/COLOR]		9%
9550		[COLOR="red"]212[/COLOR]		2%
9844		[COLOR="red"]1101[/COLOR]		11%
8874		[COLOR="red"]398[/COLOR]		4%
				
3 spark + undine + shell				
9502		[COLOR="red"]919[/COLOR]		10%
9106		[COLOR="red"]446[/COLOR]		5%
9640		[COLOR="red"]1049[/COLOR]		11%
9731		[COLOR="red"]982[/COLOR]		10%
				
3 spark + cleric buff + undine + shell				
9654		[COLOR="red"]1223[/COLOR]		13%
9173		[COLOR="red"]1440[/COLOR]		16%
10166		[COLOR="red"]1281[/COLOR]		13%
9945		[COLOR="red"]509[/COLOR]		5%

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Don't bother averaging damage values like this. You always will have error and there are plenty of sources of constant damage that will allow you to make an exact measurement:

-Wizard skill like BIDS without a weapon
-A genie attack skill like bramble rage
-A clapping hand in TT
-A swing from the sword in Theater of Blood

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Don't bother averaging damage values like this. You always will have error and there are plenty of sources of constant damage that will allow you to make an exact measurement:

-Wizard skill like BIDS without a weapon
-A genie attack skill like bramble rage
-A clapping hand in TT
-A swing from the sword in Theater of Blood

Well I get this which is why I gave multiple values for the flux. I suppose I could always have increased the amount but the thing that got me was how much shell was absorbing. It exceeded the 80% amount when undine and shell were introduced but spirits gift almost neutralized those putting it closer to 20% again but not quite.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I get this which is why I gave multiple values for the flux. I suppose I could always have increased the amount but the thing that got me was how much shell was absorbing. It exceeded the 80% amount when undine and shell were introduced but spirits gift almost neutralized those putting it closer to 20% again but not quite.

Yes you gave multiple values but you had wildly different results within that data and can't account for how much of that was due to error. One of your cases had a spread of 2%-11%. What changed between to make one of those 550% larger than the other? Basically doing it like this just makes any analysis harder and lacks control.

It does look like there might be something afoot but it's hard to say conclusively due to randomness that could have been avoided altogether. Stick with fixed damage attacks and it becomes very easy to see whats going on. If you need it to be magic damage I recommend Bramble Rage or a weaponless BIDS.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes you gave multiple values but you had wildly different results within that data and can't account for how much of that was due to error. One of your cases had a spread of 2%-11%. What changed between to make one of those 550% larger than the other? Basically doing it like this just makes any analysis harder and lacks control.

It does look like there might be something afoot but it's hard to say conclusively due to randomness that could have been avoided altogether. Stick with fixed damage attacks and it becomes very easy to see whats going on. If you need it to be magic damage I recommend Bramble Rage or a weaponless BIDS.

It's not so much as magic damage but increased values and see how it affects to winged shell.

As you can see in the first set when no debuffs and buffs were added to the wizards skill winged shell had a 80% reduction across all 4 tests using the same skill. However once the debuff undine and buff elemental shell were put into play the reduction spiked to as high as 98% granted I believe that is an error by at least 3% but looking at the damage the wizard was hitting with them the range wasn't that drastically different. A varient of about 1k from set 2 and 600 from set 3.

What puzzles me is how in one case wingshell can be hit as high as 1101 and as low as 212 using the same skill and buff sets.

My suspicion is winged shell gives a set amount of defense similar to an apothocary except it can't be reduced. So I may try using low amounts of armor and the same skill sets again. This would explain the reduction in damage from undine. Where once elemental shell and spirits gift were put into play the reduction still wasn't 80% but it was closer to it. So I may try those without undine mixed in as well.