Nefarious discussion

Xaro$ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Hey everyone ive seen many discussions about nefarious in the battlefront report thread. I usually don't post on these forums but after reading the many posts about Nefarious i decided to make my own thread here. It seemed like a fair place to do it because I cant post on Nefarious threads anymore because i will be silenced by Milyen for my opinions and views. Where he would take as complaints and ban me ...again. Yes i was unbanned from the Nefarious forums because it wasnt a justifiable ban. It was merely Milyen throwing a temper tantrum and giving orders to his officers to give me a ban for an inadequate reason. This is the the reason i was banned initally:

http://nefarious.eikylon.org/topic/4508/

Anyways regardless of what i think of the leader i do respect my nefarious friends and I will always support them 100% i just cant support what the faction has turned into since the new leadership has taken over. A few facts that you have to understand is in there voting process is where things all went wrong in the first place.

Milyen got elected into leadership, he hand picked his own director without vote (no disrespect heavenfire) but of course without an election what was done was not in the factions best interest it was in Milyens. Shortly after Milyen became leader he decided to make the officer election process into The milyen process. The marshals were indeed voted for yes but there was not many to choose from in the voting process and the ones that did get voted into office, many declined there positions because of real life situations and such. Leaving the election to very few people to choose from(sometimes one or none). Then with the marshals being chosen without little or no vote they got the privelage to choose who they wanted into office as executors. This again was not in the factions best interest it was in the Marshals best interest and of course they would easily pick their friends over dedicated faction members. I was one of the first people that had a complaint over the election process that we went through while i was still in Nefarious at the time. I was taken into a meeting where the theme was "dont you trust us" Where I spoke my mind but in the long run it was just wait it out and see it works. Where nothing got accomplished. I Thought it was the factions right to have an underestanding of how the voting process took place this time. I was told someone would make a post about this to let the faction know the truth about how people got elected. This thread never happened as promised.

Thats my opinion on where Nefarious went wrong in the first place, and now we have a new wave of nefarious members joining the faction based on greed and status quo. I never joined the faction to get rich, i never joined the faction for a status symbol. Unfortunately and sadly this is what i see from an outsiders point of view now a days. There are still some old school nef members who will probably stick with them to the very end and i do respect your decision. But many of the old school members left due to the way they were treated in the first place(i talk to many unhappy and saddened nef and ex nef members on a daily basis) Im sorry to say this but Nefarious has turned into a recycling bin where no one cares about the old members because they are easily replaced by new members. What happened to to good old days where everyone knew one another? Now ive talked to old school members in the faction and they dont even know who half of the new members are.

My last things ive heard about recent nef stories i cant varify if they are true or not but i will state them anyways.

1. The complaint thread was closed? Sayenne got warned that she would be kicked out of the faction if she didnt quit complaining?.....If this is indeed true as a Leader and officers you may want to rethink this, i mean seriously if the complaint thread got that out of hand maybe its you thats doing something wrong? I mean your obviously giving people something to complain about.

2. The TW pay is so horrible now that most of the members cant even pay for there charm loss aside from cat barbs and bms in the cat pulling squad? By my calculations you could easily pay everyone in the faction that participated in TW 3-4 million each to replace charms and such. Some have told me they have wasted 4 platinum charms in a Major TW and got there weekly pay of about 1 million. If this is true i would seriously like to know where all that money is going? I mean the faction bank has to be loaded beyond belief. (again these are accusations and possibly rumours ive heard from nef members) not necessarly true but only based on word of mouth

3. People get mass amounts of devouches after turning in an application then the leader decides to let them in the faction anyways? Wow if this is true it shows that Nefarious people have no voices anymore which i wouldnt doubt. because Milyen tried that same thing on me...if you dont like what you have to say he does his best to silence you b:shutup

On a final note What Nefarious has come to is not a respectable faction anymore. I've lost my respect for Nefarious as a whole. I do respect all my friends there and even family but what the faction has become in this new era of Nefarious is enough to bring any old school member to tears. Shape up your act Nef and show some dignity. Your not puppets dont let Milyen be the master of you and dont be slaves to him.

The day will come when Milyen will be overthrown out of leadership because of his decisions, attitude, control, etc But remember this he is the leader and he has full control when things dont go his way he flys off the handle as hes shown in the past. When he goes down in flames you guys better hope and pray he doesnt bring the entire faction down with him.

Some may call me a traitor for this post but its definitely not the case. Some may call me a traitor for helping atack Nef in TW again that is not the case. Ive stated that i support my friends 100% in nef regardless if i approve of their decisions or not and as far as TW guys...well nefs an easy 500k bid and a learning exp for our faction as well as yours. We had a hell of a fun fight last week against you and i thank you for that. Good job R3N3G4D3S we almost did it, and congrats nef on the victory.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2010

nicely summarized. Usually a block of text about any single faction ends up being just their QQing, but yours states experiences with back ups. Reality wise tho, the current state of nef, the good things, bad things, and the riches and benefits....... if you gather them all up, it would be difficult to make a change... like each of those factors rely on the other, hence the circle keeps continuing.

Bearish - Sanctuary · February 2010

i cant see your link xaros

i got banned for vouching in nef forums

YngWiE - Sanctuary · February 2010

First, a disclaimer, I am not a Nefarious officer, nor do I plan to be at any time again in the near future. The views presented below are entirely my own observations and opinions, feel free to disagree or agree with them

.

I felt I should speak up as a former leader of Nefarious. I don't like to post often, but I just feel the need to point out a few things with regards to the way the faction is run.

I held full elections for all the positions. I did so because I personally believed that democracy was the way to go, at least for the officers working under me. At the time I took over, I was taking over a faction in which the previous leader had lost the trust of the membership. I felt it was important to re-establish this.

This wasn't always the case with officers in Nefarious. As Xara had once stated, "Sasaki was a benevolent dictator, while Fall operated a bureaucracy".

I attempted to be as democratic as possible, everyone who was nominated was on the ballot (even a particular person, who was only nominated by himself and only recieved one vote in actual voting process). The problem with this, is that it becomes a vote of popularity, of charisma rather than one of aptitude. I had lucked out during my elections and that most of my officers were quite capable, but we had seen examples in the past in which officers were elected who were far underqualified and, thus, vastly underperformed.

So this brings me to my point (I know an essay just to make a point >_>). The relationship between a Director and a Leader is a special one, and I was lucky in that I had two of the most capable people I know as Directors (Xaratul and Templar) during my time. But I think it's important for the Leader to select a Director he or she has full trust in. Likewise, while I was taking a sabbatical during the current round of officer nominations, I don't think it's unreasonable for the Leader to have a say in who becomes and officer because the Leader is elected for the purpose of running the faction, and, thus, the members of the faction have placed their faith in the Leader to run the faction in the way he sees fit.

Each Leader places their own stamp on the way the faction is run. I don't believe that because Milyen runs the faction differently than how I, or other previously leaders did, the faction runs any less successfully, it's just different approach.

As for a few other points you've brought up. There is now a suggestion section of the forums for members to voice concerns. While I'm not sure exactly how it's run, I've posted a suggestion there and it was implemented shortly. As for TW pay, I think the current system is actually more fair than any previous system we had, I think you may have been getting some bad information about pay scales. For the most part, payout sheets are available for all members to see after they are sent so people are able to see exactly how it's being distributed. As for the final point, I can't comment on the current recruitment system as I do not know all the intricacies. But it does appear to be a much more conclusive system than I used.

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that change happens. At times, we are all guilty of labelling change as good or bad, when sometimes, it's neither.

If you're still reading up to this point, cheers!

- YWE/Yng etc.

Also, "Hi" to everyone I haven't spoken to in a while since I was taking a break. I'm slowly easing myself back into PWI, and trying to take it easy. Give me a shout in-game, I'm back

(in a much reduced capacity haha).

*wonders who will say "Cool Story, Bro" first to my post*

Xaro$ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Thanks for your views and opinions yng, im glad this thread has not turned into flames or such yet as we've seen from others. very respectful and you've made some valid points. As i stated yea some of those views were just from current nef members that i talk to regularly I dont know how much truth there is to them so I thank you for clearing up some of the facts. Quick question, has the pay spreadsheet changed since i left Nef? (just curious)

YngWiE - Sanctuary · February 2010

Xaro$ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thanks for your views and opinions yng, im glad this thread has not turned into flames or such yet as we've seen from others. very respectful and you've made some valid points. As i stated yea some of those views were just from current nef members that i talk to regularly I dont know how much truth there is to them so I thank you for clearing up some of the facts. Quick question, has the pay spreadsheet changed since i left Nef? (just curious)

I'm not sure exactly when you left so I don't know. To be honest, I haven't taken a close look at the spreadsheets lately, but from what I gather from other posts, they do a much better job of compensating for charm costs than we had under my Leadership. During my time was when the Anni Packs first came out, so it took us a while to adapt to changing gold and thus charm costs.

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary · February 2010

Nef's forum wrote:

If you leave the faction, you will be subject to the following:

1. You must fill out an application
2. A minimum of a 1 week between when you left the faction and when you may prospectively be readded
3. You will be asked to explain your reasons for leaving
4. The status of your re-entry will be at the discretion of the officers
5. The eligibility of any faction sponsorships with regards to TW attendance will be reset
6. Any payouts missed in your absence from the faction will not be returned

The one in red made me laugh. An application just to leave the faction?

LOL!

Yeah.... right.... If I was in Nef then one day decided to quit, it's MY choice, not theirs.

Nef's forum wrote:

DO NOT TRASH TALK IN WORLD CHAT OR PUBLIC CHANNELS, I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL SWIFTLY KICKED FROM THE FACTION IF YOU DO

I still remember a jerk named (oh wait, can't name him directly on here... here's a hint: F

D---KK) who broke this rule towards me in common chat. It was in City of the Lost maybe a few months ago and he's spamming to sell something in common chat. I politely mentioned to use the trade channel for that, where it belonged. What did he do? Trash talked to me just because I suggested it.

Let me explain something to you Nef people. Just because you own a town doesn't mean you can spam in public channels all you want there. The only thing you actually own in that town are those special npcs that give stuff to faction members. That's it.

Lose the arrogant attitude already. That goes for all of you in Nef. If you think it's impressing anyone, think again. Why should I respect a faction that has none for anyone other than themselves and their allies?

_Sheh - Sanctuary · February 2010

I think it's more or less referring to people who wish to re-apply. I doubt people are forced to fill out an application upon the exit of the faction. That's just silly. b:chuckle

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · February 2010

YngWiE - Sanctuary wrote: »

First, a disclaimer, I am not a Nefarious officer, nor do I plan to be at any time again in the near future. The views presented below are entirely my own observations and opinions, feel free to disagree or agree with them .

I felt I should speak up as a former leader of Nefarious. I don't like to post often, but I just feel the need to point out a few things with regards to the way the faction is run.

I held full elections for all the positions. I did so because I personally believed that democracy was the way to go, at least for the officers working under me. At the time I took over, I was taking over a faction in which the previous leader had lost the trust of the membership. I felt it was important to re-establish this.

This wasn't always the case with officers in Nefarious. As Xara had once stated, "Sasaki was a benevolent dictator, while Fall operated a bureaucracy".

I attempted to be as democratic as possible, everyone who was nominated was on the ballot (even a particular person, who was only nominated by himself and only recieved one vote in actual voting process). The problem with this, is that it becomes a vote of popularity, of charisma rather than one of aptitude. I had lucked out during my elections and that most of my officers were quite capable, but we had seen examples in the past in which officers were elected who were far underqualified and, thus, vastly underperformed.

So this brings me to my point (I know an essay just to make a point >_>). The relationship between a Director and a Leader is a special one, and I was lucky in that I had two of the most capable people I know as Directors (Xaratul and Templar) during my time. But I think it's important for the Leader to select a Director he or she has full trust in. Likewise, while I was taking a sabbatical during the current round of officer nominations, I don't think it's unreasonable for the Leader to have a say in who becomes and officer because the Leader is elected for the purpose of running the faction, and, thus, the members of the faction have placed their faith in the Leader to run the faction in the way he sees fit.

Each Leader places their own stamp on the way the faction is run. I don't believe that because Milyen runs the faction differently than how I, or other previously leaders did, the faction runs any less successfully, it's just different approach.

As for a few other points you've brought up. There is now a suggestion section of the forums for members to voice concerns. While I'm not sure exactly how it's run, I've posted a suggestion there and it was implemented shortly. As for TW pay, I think the current system is actually more fair than any previous system we had, I think you may have been getting some bad information about pay scales. For the most part, payout sheets are available for all members to see after they are sent so people are able to see exactly how it's being distributed. As for the final point, I can't comment on the current recruitment system as I do not know all the intricacies. But it does appear to be a much more conclusive system than I used.

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that change happens. At times, we are all guilty of labelling change as good or bad, when sometimes, it's neither.

If you're still reading up to this point, cheers!

- YWE/Yng etc.

Also, "Hi" to everyone I haven't spoken to in a while since I was taking a break. I'm slowly easing myself back into PWI, and trying to take it easy. Give me a shout in-game, I'm back (in a much reduced capacity haha).

*wonders who will say "Cool Story, Bro" first to my post*

cool story , bro b:avoid

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

I think nef members need to stand up for themselves a bit more. After all the faction needs it's members, especially the stronger ones. If too many quit the faction would crumble without them.

Personally I'd never dream of joining a faction that didn't let you voice your opinion. I can be rather brutally honest at times and if I think something is out of place, I'll let you know about it pretty fast.
There's a touch of arrogance to happily booting members for the slightest issue, kind of like "Nef is the strongest faction, I'm it's leader, I can replace you with ten high levels in a flash." It just doesn't seem like the faction respects it's members, despite the fact that they're the ones going out there week after week winning the battles for nef.

Accel - Raging Tide · February 2010

Bro, Story Cool.

FlyDoomKK always trash talks..b:laugh

Cimeja - Sanctuary · February 2010

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still remember a jerk named (oh wait, can't name him directly on here... here's a hint: F
D---KK) who broke this rule towards me in common chat. It was in City of the Lost maybe a few months ago and he's spamming to sell something in common chat. I politely mentioned to use the trade channel for that, where it belonged. What did he do? Trash talked to me just because I suggested it.

Let me explain something to you Nef people. Just because you own a town doesn't mean you can spam in public channels all you want there. The only thing you actually own in that town are those special npcs that give stuff to faction members. That's it.

Lose the arrogant attitude already. That goes for all of you in Nef. If you think it's impressing anyone, think again. Why should I respect a faction that has none for anyone other than themselves and their allies?

I can pretty much understand your concerns but you can hardly judge the whole faction because of one single member.
I havent been in many factions, still I can assure you that there is no faction without people like this in it.
You can easily improve your ingame experience by blacklisting trashtalkers-
that should keep you away from all the drama and also leave them without the attention that they are looking to get b:chuckle

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Cimeja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can pretty much understand your concerns but you can hardly judge the whole faction because of one single member.
I havent been in many factions, still I can assure you that there is no faction without people like this in it.
You can easily improve your ingame experience by blacklisting trashtalkers-
that should keep you away from all the drama and also leave them without the attention that they are looking to get b:chuckle

QFT

I've met the odd regi and nef members for example, who were complete asses. Then I've also met regi and nef members who are some of the nicest people I've encountered in the game so far, no joke. People are people. Some are nice, some aren't.

Accel - Raging Tide · February 2010

Cimeja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can pretty much understand your concerns but you can hardly judge the whole faction because of one single member.
I havent been in many factions, still I can assure you that there is no faction without people like this in it.
You can easily improve your ingame experience by blacklisting trashtalkers-
that should keep you away from all the drama and also leave them without the attention that they are looking to get b:chuckle

That is so true, btw grats on 102 cimeja

.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

QFT

I've met the odd regi and nef members for example, who were complete asses. Then I've also met regi and nef members who are some of the nicest people I've encountered in the game so far, no joke. People are people. Some are nice, some aren't.

If you met me in pk, I'm "mean", but if you know me personally, I'm pretty cool guy. b:cute

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary · February 2010

Cimeja - Sanctuary wrote: »

but you can hardly judge the whole faction because of one single member

FDKK was just a small example, not "judging the whole faction over one member". Take a look at what others say about them. Read their forum. All Nef members I've actually seen are jerks and asses, officers included. Never encountered a "nice" one in-game yet.

Evga - Sanctuary · February 2010

i'm nice :P as long as you aren't competing with me in taming rare pet :P

Reminissions - Sanctuary · February 2010

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

The one in red made me laugh. An application just to leave the faction?

LOL!

Yeah.... right.... If I was in Nef then one day decided to quit, it's MY choice, not theirs.

What about thinking before writing. If you were to use your brain a bit more, you'd of realize that an application must be filled in order to be RE-ADDED to the faction.
b:surrender

Cimeja - Sanctuary · February 2010

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

FDKK was just a small example, not "judging the whole faction over one member". Take a look at what others say about them. Read their forum. All Nef members I've actually seen are jerks and asses, officers included. Never encountered a "nice" one yet.

Either bad luck, or either you having prejudices, who knows?
I used to feel the same at lvl85 when every single Regicide was killing me in cube, then I appeared in room 33 and saw someone healing me without even asking for it- it was an old Nef member, Sinanju.
I joined nef because of people like him and YWE, who regardless of my faction and level were good and helpful to me and I'd gladly prove you wrong anytime you'd like to whisper me in game b:mischievous
Again, you are not responsible for what other people do and Im truly sorry if someone made you feel offended or hurt.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Not enough time to read all this. Nef, you're a bunch of good people and I like playing with you guys. Alot of my friends list are Nef players. I love going into PK duels with you and you always pull out good results in PvE. But you have too much land. I'm sorry... But its overkill. Let the game even out a bit. Just take like 10 pieces tops and let the rest of the lower factions duel out the rest. Your faction makes most factions not even want to try TW. Kinda ruins the game. Just my input.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · February 2010

Evga - Sanctuary wrote: »

i'm nice :P as long as you aren't competing with me in taming rare pet :P

*Evga starts to tame*
*Evga Trips on his own feet*
*Pet jumps into Holy's pet bag*
*pet is sold for millions*
*evga cries*

Evga - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not enough time to read all this. Nef, you're a bunch of good people and I like playing with you guys. Alot of my friends list are Nef players. I love going into PK duels with you and you always pull out good results in PvE. But you have too much land. I'm sorry... But its overkill. Let the game even out a bit. Just take like 10 pieces tops and let the rest of the lower factions duel out the rest. Your faction makes most factions not even want to try TW. Kinda ruins the game. Just my input.

not possible, if i'm not mistaken, it's against the rule to purposely lose to a faction bidding on you. it's like handing land over. because "IF" nef decide to let some land out, i'm pretty sure we would want to dictate which land we allow people to have and i don't think anybody wants to risk getting ban for that :P

but i think we want to at least have the chance to claim we control all the land :P what comes after that, nobody knows, just wait for 5 more weeks :P and we will see :P

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Just stop attacking people lol. Fight for your land, but stop attacking others.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just stop attacking people lol. Fight for your land, but stop attacking others.

I cant agree with killing the beauty of competition for the sake of progress >.>

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just stop attacking people lol. Fight for your land, but stop attacking others.

You're gonna have to convince nef leader to allow that. :P (Does he ever even come on the forums?)

Either way, even if there were 10 spare land, there would still be a second dominating faction. All the lazy high levels who didn't make it into nef would hop there instead for instant pwn. And we'd be back at square one.
Personally I believe it's a combination of TW pay for owning land, making TW more of a paid job than for fun, and lower factions having little loyalty to their members thus giving them little incentive to be loyal to their faction. But that's just an opinion so can't say I'm definitely right on that.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

If 1 faction starts destroying the land Nef didn't attack, such as Enelysion, we could just have Nef stomp them again. Just stop attacking people lol.Looking at territory right now and... you have all land except for... 5. Give up like 15 more pieces and I'll stop complaining lol

Evga - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

If 1 faction starts destroying the land Nef didn't attack, such as Enelysion, we could just have Nef stomp them again. Just stop attacking people lol.Looking at territory right now and... you have all land except for... 5. Give up like 15 more pieces and I'll stop complaining lol

first 10, now 15, what is next? half? btw if nef was a bit smart and not completely dumb :P we won't let a second dominating faction hold all the land, spread it out between 10 faction :P so they can beat each other up every week :P and we act as the hammer to kill the second dominating faction :P

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · February 2010

...whoevers stating nef give up land, thats absolutely horrible... Youll just end up 'owing' them till the end of PWI and it will be engraved in carbon steel alloy....

Katzyn - Sanctuary · February 2010

What ever happened to the limit on how many territories a faction can rule...? Or am I tripping and there never was a limit...?

I like some Nef members. I've met a lot of nice people in the faction. I am unhappy that they own nearly the whole map, but hey, what can you do? I do wish there was a limit to how much a faction can own, because I understand what Tech said about other factions getting discouraged.

TPstar - Sanctuary · February 2010

For Xaro$: we never talked much when you were here. But you were one of the reason I joined Nefarious in the first place. It is people like you and other Nefarious and ex-Nefarious members that helped me in the past that makes me want to join. I think Nefarious is slowly changing over time but the goal is always the same. I am not going to comment on whether it is the right or wrong move, but it takes a lot of stress and pressure to fill up the whole weekend with nothing but TW. It is difficult to be the leader of Nefarious, since all the members think, act, and do things different. Although most of us do things maturely, but not all of the members follow directions really well. Sometimes it takes a little authority to get things straight.

As for Rainbowvidel: Most of Nefarious members follow the rule of do not provoke in trash talk in public. Those you see in forum are most likely the black sheep of the faction. I normally do not respond to any pm from people I do not know because I am just here to enjoy the game just like everybody else. I do not need to get involve in other people's business.

Technotic: It isn

TPstar - Sanctuary · February 2010

For Technotic: It isn’t greed for us to own all the lands like some people said. And I believe you know that as well. It is our common goal. We are close to reaching that goal and it will take all of our members working together to reach there. But I don’t understand the logic behind your giving lands away theory. It is like telling Michael Jordan “You are taking too many shots.” when he was still playing professional basketball.

Evga - Sanctuary · February 2010

TPstar - Sanctuary wrote: »

For Technotic: It isn’t greed for us to own all the lands like some people said. And I believe you know that as well. It is our common goal. We are close to reaching that goal and it will take all of our members working together to reach there. But I don’t understand the logic behind your giving lands away theory. It is like telling Michael Jordan “You are taking too many shots.” when he was still playing professional basketball.

lol i love that anology, but i prefer saying, Bill Gates you are too rich! your net worth should only be XX mil :P

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