Uses for the tideborn

FanFon - Dreamweaver
FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
edited February 2010 in General Discussion
Well there been a lot of post about what sins can't do. So what do you think sins and psys can do? Besides being a dd.

*note can be about anything from pvp, pve, squads, and soloing (this is not a class comparing thread so don't go there and make this a flame bait trolling war.... -_-;)b:surrender
Post edited by FanFon - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • Psytrac - Dreamweaver
    Psytrac - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,488 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I can solo SOME things on my psy, not too hard for me
    I'm a guy, not a woman, that is all
    "When you're on Team Bring it, every morning your feet hit the floor, the good lord says "good morning" and the devil says 'Oh **** they're up' " - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
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  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Psy can tank fb59 better than any wiz I've ever seen. They seem to hold agro far better too. A good psy will consistently come first place in PQ too, so they obviously have a pretty high damage output.
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, Tideborn are good for...

    California rolls, Dragon rolls, Futo Maki....b:avoid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    sins CAN keel you.
    sins can't RB (gathering beans isn't an actual job...the entire squad minus the tank/cleric can easily get the beans during the in between time when bosses are there.)

    psychics mayhaps could RB through the use of their aoes...although their aoes seem a bit weak and since it isn't continuous...ya
    (>.<)'

    sins CAN run straight through FB/BHs
    b:chuckle

    xD
    and +1 on Aadis post
    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • Nolasa - Dreamweaver
    Nolasa - Dreamweaver Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As far as FBs/BHs are concerned, Sins are (well, this is what i do. dunno about the others) meant to help debuff the Boss, ie, keep Ribstrike/Puncture active on the boss as much as possible, while providing a 2nd Melee DDer class. Dunno about TW, havent done one yet with a Sin, and soloing, well, stay alert, and youll kill most anything very fast.
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, Tideborn are good for...

    California rolls, Dragon rolls, Futo Maki....b:avoid

    I'll stick with the classic Hamachi. b:dirty
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'll stick with the classic Hamachi. b:dirty
    O.O'
    b:shocked
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'll stick with the classic Hamachi. b:dirty

    I actually had to look up "Types of sushi" to make that post.

    I've never had sushi b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
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  • Davitiel - Heavens Tear
    Davitiel - Heavens Tear Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I actually had to look up "Types of sushi" to make that post.

    I've never had sushi b:surrender

    Sushi = b:faint
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    And now faith, hope, and charity remain; but the greatest of these is charity.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I actually had to look up "Types of sushi" to make that post.

    I've never had sushi b:surrender

    o.o'
    me had sushi before
    (>.<)'
    me was running around on the floor of a sushi bar.....
    and then me eated some.
    DX
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nolasa - Dreamweaver
    Nolasa - Dreamweaver Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Word of warning for the sushi: if its connected to a line trailing back to a fish tank, you might not want to eat it.............
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Assassins are cool, but a fist BM can do almost the same, and shadowkick has a faster cooldown, so more useful in a party to cancel bosses, not to mention most fist bms would be able to swap to axes and help stun adds, while the assassin is pretty much a one horse trick. Now a party of assassins with a cleric is a scary sigh against regular mobs....

    Psycs have great debuffs, unfortunatly, bosses do not use charms nor have other mobs healing them. They have great potential as DDers with blackvoodoo and magic tanks with white voodoo, but a cleric can DD as well, and it has better mob debufs, better heals, the ability to rez to the party, while Wizzards seem to still have higher DD (hard to tell once psycs get their sage skills and level 79 ones).
    The increased heal buff could be very useful when parties are running fbs/tts at level, and the cleric is having issues healing the tank, but, in my experiece, most clerics already overheal the tank, so the skill looses a little of its benefit on the tank, while it still adds value to the other party members that are using pots/ affected by bb only. Recent changes to the heal spell that increased range to 15 members instead of 5 meters opened the door for psycs to be the backup party healer those times when everyone needs an AOE heal.
    As magic tankers, they have high potential, but with a 70%+ damage reduction and no aggro-only skills like a barb, it would hard to hold aggro on a boss in a party with other dders, alpha may help, but I am not sure the cooldown would be fast enough to be effective at holding aggro. They seem to fit nicely into the solo grind model though, the ranged 6 second stun really makes grinding fast and almost risk-free when used with the knockback, in my experience, and they can heal themselves every so many mobs in case they get hit.

    I will let someone on a pvp server comment on the pvp side, since tws and duels are really not the same as open pvp.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Davitiel - Heavens Tear
    Davitiel - Heavens Tear Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    lolz

    I see Tideborn classes as a leisure class. They're not highly needed in squads since they can't really contribute many special abilities that the other classes have already. They're like secondary DDs with pretty good soloing ability in my experience and some nice pocket support skills. They're not high in demand like Clerics, Barbs, or sometimes Venos since they're not that special. Its logical that they're not high in demand since there are few of them compared to the original classes. It woudnt have made sense to add a heavely needed class in the game this far since there would be so few of them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    And now faith, hope, and charity remain; but the greatest of these is charity.
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Well, Tideborn are good for...

    California rolls, Dragon rolls, Futo Maki....b:avoid

    I agree but i prefer mines steamedb:pleased
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited February 2010

    Assassins are cool, but a fist BM can do almost the same, and shadowkick has a faster cooldown, so more useful in a party to cancel bosses, not to mention most fist bms would be able to swap to axes and help stun adds, while the assassin is pretty much a one horse trick.

    Didn't i say not to compare classes? It was going so well till you came. b:cry
  • Nolasa - Dreamweaver
    Nolasa - Dreamweaver Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    and shadowkick has a faster cooldown,

    Faster than what? Sins have 2 spell negating skills: Knife Throw, and Throatcut.
    Knifethrow has a 15 second cooldown, which is only 3 seconds more than Shadowless Kick's 12 sec cooldown, which wont matter much against a boss.
    Throatcut is a spark skill, 95% to cancel enemy spell (once maxed, its 86% at lvl 1), and silences target ( for 2 secs at lvl 1, 4 secs at max), and has an 8 sec cooldown.

    As for the Fist Bm swapping to axes to stun, thats a waste of time. Stay with fists and use Roar of the Pride and Aoelian Blade, both of which are stun skills.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Didn't i say not to compare classes? It was going so well till you came. b:cry

    You have to compare classes since you need a reference point for the new classes, unless this was a trolling post and I totally missed it. Besides, I was not the first one... ready posts #3, #5, etc.
    Faster than what? Sins have 2 spell negating skills: Knife Throw, and Throatcut.
    Knifethrow has a 15 second cooldown, which is only 3 seconds more than Shadowless Kick's 12 sec cooldown, which wont matter much against a boss.
    Throatcut is a spark skill, 95% to cancel enemy spell (once maxed, its 86% at lvl 1), and silences target ( for 2 secs at lvl 1, 4 secs at max), and has an 8 sec cooldown.

    As for the Fist Bm swapping to axes to stun, thats a waste of time. Stay with fists and use Roar of the Pride and Aoelian Blade, both of which are stun skills.

    Yes, but most bosses are on a 12 second skill cycle. That is why Barbs always get alacry to level 10, so they can cancel all the skills. A 15 second cooldown means you can only stop 50% of the skills. Lots of people use genies, and earthquake does have a 100% cancel rate, so between the two you may be able to cancel 100% of the skills, however, it does not stop the fact that shadowkick can be used every 12 seconds and stop 100% of the boss skills. Regarding throatcut, I do agree that is nice, but it is not 100%, unlike the other 2 skills, it has a little better chances than lighting chaser, but still a chance to fail, even if small, also at 1 spark every 8 seconds, I am not sure you can use it all the time (i really do not know if you can generate enough chi to re-use it, even with the new changes), do you happen to know if the new changes to chi generation make this skill usable every 8 seconds if you were to maximize your chi generation?

    On the axes thing, that is based on my experience, every fist bm I know, has pulled their axes to aoe/chain stun when it was time for crowd control.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You have to compare classes since you need a reference point for the new classes, unless this was a trolling post and I totally missed it. Besides, I was not the first one... ready posts #3, #not 5, etc.

    me post wasn't comparing anything
    me was just merely stating what they CAN do and CAN'T.
    no comparison at all in me post between tideborns and to any specific older classes.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You have to compare classes since you need a reference point for the new classes, unless this was a trolling post and I totally missed it. Besides, I was not the first one... ready posts #3, #5, etc.
    guess i should have seen this coming oh wells......
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    me post wasn't comparing anything
    me was just merely stating what they CAN do and CAN'T.
    no comparison at all in me post between tideborns and to any specific older classes.

    You said they cannot RB..... And yes, I have just facepalmed myself for it....
    ?
    lol whut?
    clerics can RB.....
    RB = rebirth not RB as in red bubble....
    ._.'
    assassins has a lack of AOE skills lol
    b:surrender

    You are too fast.. I just corrected myself :P lol i know.... I need coffee...
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You said they cannot RB, which is comparing them to clerics

    ?
    lol whut?
    clerics can RB.....
    RB = rebirth not RB as in red bubble....
    ._.'
    assassins has a lack of AOE skills lol
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nolasa - Dreamweaver
    Nolasa - Dreamweaver Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes, but most bosses are on a 12 second skill cycle. That is why Barbs always get alacry to level 10, so they can cancel all the skills. A 15 second cooldown means you can only stop 50% of the skills. Lots of people use genies, and earthquake does have a 100% cancel rate, so between the two you may be able to cancel 100% of the skills, however, it does not stop the fact that shadowkick can be used every 12 seconds and stop 100% of the boss skills. Regarding throatcut, I do agree that is nice, but it is not 100%, unlike the other 2 skills, it has a little better chances than lighting chaser, but still a chance to fail, even if small, also at 1 spark every 8 seconds, I am not sure you can use it all the time (i really do not know if you can generate enough chi to re-use it, even with the new changes), do you happen to know if the new changes to chi generation make this skill usable every 8 seconds if you were to maximize your chi generation?

    On the axes thing, that is based on my experience, every fist bm I know, has pulled their axes to aoe/chain stun when it was time for crowd control.

    If the bm is doing crowd control, why are they using fists? Axes give the ability to keep up a near constant aoe. (ive a lvl 83 axe bm, so im not totally clueless about them) The only wep specific stun BMs get is Drake Bash, and its a single target stun. yes fist bms do have a non ulti aoe, but it has a cooldown of 15 secs, which is not ideal for crowd control. The only aoe stun Bms get is Roar of the pride, and its an all wep skill.

    Now, as for generating chi, ive 3 skills which give me a total of 4 sparks worth of chi: Shadow Escape, Rising Dragon Strike, and Inner Harmony, which have a 90, 30, and 60 sec cooldown, repsectively. I also have Tackling slash with a 15 sec cooldown, but it only gives 50 chi. Personally, when im DDing on a boss, im not going to worry about the spells its using, as its not my job to cancel them. Im going to worry about keeping its atk rate down, keep it bleeding, and doing as much dmg as i can without taking aggro.
  • Basch - Lost City
    Basch - Lost City Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Since I play an 81 sin on a pvp server I can pretty much summarize that part for ya. Assassins have a very high chance of killing most LA and robe classes. I, along with others, have been evidence of that. Taking down a 101 archer as a high 7x is quite a feat in itself. I myself have taken down 95+ clerics and archers with little to no trouble at all. More or less we hold a great deal of advantages as we can always just sneak up on the squishies. Its kinda fun to watching them QQ after like where the hell did you come from and how did you do that.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    What Psys can do: Yeah Ksing most quest mobs in the area to force others to squad up with them. He did not have his way, I still killed mobs whenever he couldn't grab.
  • Crypsis - Lost City
    Crypsis - Lost City Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sin is a pvp class so in most cases you're pretty useless when it comes to pve it seems.

    I cant find any uses for sins in Rebirth. I cant really see any uses for them in Frost or Lunar or any instance where you aoe as DD.

    Obviously there is ways to go around it, pve inst that challenging in this game and most stuff is doable - but rest of party will have to suffer if you lets say replace the BM in rebirth with a sin.

    Other than being a very good DD on bosses i cant see any pve-use for sins. All tho the class so far seems to be one of the best and funnest pvp classes to play so being useless in pve might be the price to pay for that.

    And 90+ if you have decent gear you can solo your own BH79 using stealth to the bosses.
  • Ephemerai - Sanctuary
    Ephemerai - Sanctuary Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I dunno if our AOEs are useless.. don't know if PQ ranking can be considered a point for comparison, but sins/psychics usually come out on top for PQ (at least the 60-80 one), and the best way to rank high is to AOE.

    Yeah, the cooldowns suck, and the fact that it's not a continuous AOE sucks, but we do crit a lot on our AOEs and can pretty consistently do sparked AOEs because of our chi regen skills.

    Dunno if that's of any use in RBs though because I've never gotten to do any.. u__u
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I dunno if our AOEs are useless.. don't know if PQ ranking can be considered a point for comparison, but sins/psychics usually come out on top for PQ (at least the 60-80 one), and the best way to rank high is to AOE.

    Yeah, the cooldowns suck, and the fact that it's not a continuous AOE sucks, but we do crit a lot on our AOEs and can pretty consistently do sparked AOEs because of our chi regen skills.

    Dunno if that's of any use in RBs though because I've never gotten to do any.. u__u

    I have to rub this in: RB is not for new classes. You aren't part of the rainbow squad. Unless this has been changed.

    But even if you are part of it, you aren't able to do much except pulling aggro and getting everyone killed.
  • PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear
    PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sins- I have nothing to say As I killed three at the same time with three aoes


    Psy- Keywords: Regression and Returned Punishment
    We aren't meant to be the best magical class DD Psy's are meant to be the regressor of the party or Our Buffs (which come off mostly as self buffs) Are meant to alter the party to where Rash actions can be overlooked and rationalized with Psy's skill. ~MichyThePsy said this I agree


    Psy's are meant to regressors POINT **** BLANK

    But when fighting bosses I Play support heal for the cleric and wizzies in back with me then when the baddie get's to Half I make my Judgement by throwing on Black Voodoo and then Casting like hell

    The aoes are not useless we have added affects on Red Tide(Bleed) and Earth Vector(Stun)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I'm the only Harpy, Who's Psychic and knows all!b:chuckleb:pleased

    Live Life How You wish To Live It.


    I love PWI, Teh Forums, and Konari b:thanks


    Is currently working on Wizzy (imo better than my Psy)b:surrender name: SaphiraGione
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If the bm is doing crowd control, why are they using fists? Axes give the ability to keep up a near constant aoe. (ive a lvl 83 axe bm, so im not totally clueless about them) The only wep specific stun BMs get is Drake Bash, and its a single target stun. yes fist bms do have a non ulti aoe, but it has a cooldown of 15 secs, which is not ideal for crowd control. The only aoe stun Bms get is Roar of the pride, and its an all wep skill.

    Now, as for generating chi, ive 3 skills which give me a total of 4 sparks worth of chi: Shadow Escape, Rising Dragon Strike, and Inner Harmony, which have a 90, 30, and 60 sec cooldown, repsectively. I also have Tackling slash with a 15 sec cooldown, but it only gives 50 chi. Personally, when im DDing on a boss, im not going to worry about the spells its using, as its not my job to cancel them. Im going to worry about keeping its atk rate down, keep it bleeding, and doing as much dmg as i can without taking aggro.

    Thank you for the information on the chi building. I had forgoten about the atk rate debuff, that is a nice skill to have in a party as well, since it helps the tank.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sins- I have nothing to say As I killed three at the same time with three aoes


    Psy- Keywords: Regression and Returned Punishment
    We aren't meant to be the best magical class DD Psy's are meant to be the regressor of the party or Our Buffs (which come off mostly as self buffs) Are meant to alter the party to where Rash actions can be overlooked and rationalized with Psy's skill. ~MichyThePsy said this I agree


    Psy's are meant to regressors POINT **** BLANK

    But when fighting bosses I Play support heal for the cleric and wizzies in back with me then when the baddie get's to Half I make my Judgement by throwing on Black Voodoo and then Casting like hell

    The aoes are not useless we have added affects on Red Tide(Bleed) and Earth Vector(Stun)

    See..this is why I hate psys like you. Throw on a black voodoo when bosses are at half HP?

    Even with 20% of the total hp left, I can still pull aggro from a sin and a BM with sparks, what makes you think you are able to do away with 50% of the boss hp left, without pulling aggro especially with black voodoo ?

    Earth vector has a chance to stun, not a guaranteed stun whenever you want it. So relying on the proc effect is a pretty huge gamble. So I have to say that your AOEs are good for aoe grindings for yourselves and bless you if you should get yourself killed.