Archer or Wizard?

Mosabi - Heavens Tear · November 2009

No problem

...

Endrnz - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Whiner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wizards
+ Hits harder then the Archer (so good in TW)
- Squishy.
- Uses MP charm.
- Impossible to get in a 2-3.

Archers
+ Hits hard.
+ Can fly from the beginning, so faster getting started.
x Medium defence.
- Uses arrows.

I would go for the archer

Hmm, interesting...see I always thought TW is where Archer SHINE...cause well instead of Dragon's Breath (close range AoE), archers can use Barrage of Arrows (Far range AoE) + the ESSENTIAL skill Sharpened Tooth Arrow used to take down barbs?

Now see...you may counter and say to take down wizzy you NEED magic attacks, and yes you are correct you DEFINITELY do...in TW I think wizzy and archer play an equal role.

Well to get back on topic, I have tried archer/wizz both to 40 and I really preferred archer more (don't know what it is about holding a bow but damn I love it lol).

At level 40 my wizz was stronger the archer in DD capability (but you see when I did My first BH I stole aggro with both archer and wizz...more often with wizz) so I don't really see the point is so much DD capability that you loose the objective of the mission (assist attack). Yes, FOR SURE this DD ability of the wizzy can be put into good use elsewhere but a major part of leveling (instances) I think the DD ability is quite useless.

__Hysteria__ - Harshlands · January 2010

Endrnz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm, interesting...see I always thought TW is where Archer SHINE...cause well instead of Dragon's Breath (close range AoE), archers can use Barrage of Arrows (Far range AoE) + the ESSENTIAL skill Sharpened Tooth Arrow used to take down barbs?

Now see...you may counter and say to take down wizzy you NEED magic attacks, and yes you are correct you DEFINITELY do...in TW I think wizzy and archer play an equal role.

Well to get back on topic, I have tried archer/wizz both to 40 and I really preferred archer more (don't know what it is about holding a bow but damn I love it lol).

At level 40 my wizz was stronger the archer in DD capability (but you see when I did My first BH I stole aggro with both archer and wizz...more often with wizz) so I don't really see the point is so much DD capability that you loose the objective of the mission (assist attack). Yes, FOR SURE this DD ability of the wizzy can be put into good use elsewhere but a major part of leveling (instances) I think the DD ability is quite useless.

wow thats like your 3rd necro today your on a roll

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver · January 2010

ill make this pretty ez and logical...

Wizards can 1-2 shot archers
Archers can 1-2 shot wizards

So damage is irrelevant.

Archer has greater range then wizard. So... archer can 1-2 shot first.

Guess who wins most of the time..

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ill make this pretty ez and logical...

Wizards can 1-2 shot archers
Archers can 1-2 shot wizards

So damage is irrelevant.

Archer has greater range then wizard. So... archer can 1-2 shot first.

Guess who wins most of the time..

.....wizards?
shrink - faster then all yer moves FoW/silence - sutra - roll face on keyboard at teh speed of drillbird.

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver · January 2010

whats faster got to do with anything... if range is greater i cast first..

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »

whats faster got to do with anything... if range is greater i cast first..

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

.....wizards?
shrink - faster then all yer moves FoW/silence - sutra - roll face on keyboard at teh speed of drillbird.

read first please.....
distance shrink jumps me right into range and if used right....right into yer half damage ranged as well.
b:surrender

me could just go in...activate sutra/distance shrink/FoW/silence - sutra - roll face on keyboard at teh speed of drillbird.
and yesh.....it drops archers easy.

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver · January 2010

first shink doesnt take you close enought
2nd by the time your spell you mash the button.. you will be stuned or dead
3rd.. your sleep or scilence skills have no effect.

so unless you can instantly teleport and at the exact same time cast a spell that 1 shots (which inst possiable).. GL.

thats why range gives the edge.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

Quizenbort is there only fail wizards on dreamweaver or do you only duel? (although me has seen alot of wizards and archers who has trouble with distance measurements lol.)
b:puzzled
me use shrink while OUT OF RANGE
to get into range and then some.
me found archers still can't cast their stun arrows fast enough to stop me.
and by then me FoW in .5 seconds or SW instant cast stops em dead in their track for me to do the required 1-3 shots to kill em.
b:surrender

(also me wuv stopping WoG using either FoW or SW.)
lol it still costs em a spark
xD

Aquagirl - Raging Tide · January 2010

OK, look, I played both Archer and Wizard endgame.
A pure mag wizard can have 6k HP and about 8k pdef self buffed at 99, buffed those numbers are in the range of 7.5k HP and about 12k pdef, which is more than Mdef.
Endgame, full buffed, a wizard is only afraid of a purge or a debuff proc from lvl95 lunar bow. And with a +8 or more weapon and about 15% crit, I'm telling you, tha wizard will hit hard, and when he crits someone dies. And , as archer, you know already 15% crit is quite something, cause it was your crit rate around lvl 60.
Archer on the other hand has other advantages. STA is one of them for bosses. Pdef and Mdef both suck, so in PvP everything revolves on avoiding hits. As archer you have a slight advantage in HP, but that's not nearly enough to compensate for any kind of debuff.
Playing wizard you need to be creative using skills, paying attention when to use the control ones and sutra. Their cooldown means if you missed once you're going to have to fight a while until you have them available again.
Archer can repeat the same skills without too much trouble, and sooner or later a crit will proc at the right time and he will be victorious.

Endrnz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm, interesting...see I always thought TW is where Archer SHINE...cause well instead of Dragon's Breath (close range AoE), archers can use Barrage of Arrows (Far range AoE) + the ESSENTIAL skill Sharpened Tooth Arrow used to take down barbs?

haven't been in too many TW, haven't you?
Both classes are very needed in TW, but not by far for the **** you posted above
Depending on what style you like to play

MagicHamsta - Lost City · January 2010

me actually started off as an archer
and realized me wasn't squishy enough
(>.<)

also me style of play tends to be more of a wait and see where a mass of teh enemy gathers...then go PEW PEW PEW
instead of the run around snipe 1 by 1 (although me do this pretty well since of me FPS experience and necessity to survive long enough to wait for the Pew Pew moment.)

me might die quickly but me are sure going to try me best to make it as annoying to keel me as possible
b:chuckle

Chaotiic - Lost City · January 2010

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »

first shink doesnt take you close enought
2nd by the time your spell you mash the button.. you will be stuned or dead
3rd.. your sleep or scilence skills have no effect.

so unless you can instantly teleport and at the exact same time cast a spell that 1 shots (which inst possiable).. GL.

thats why range gives the edge.

You must have no decent wizards in dreamweaver. I can say for a fact whether a wizard distance shrinks into range or not although i start casting stun first they always stop it with seal as seal's cast is half a second i think. About an archer 1-2 shotting a wizard there are pretty much no 1-2 shot lvl 100 wizards on my server even for the rank8 archers, however the best wizards consistently 1 shot archers and even the average ones have to be kited if u want to survive.

Gasoline - Lost City · January 2010

Lol even rank8 archers here with +10+11 event gear gets 1 shoot by 99 wizards on a daily basis. Archers just dont have enough hp + magic defense to tank any magic dmg at all, even if they are socketed with 24 savant stones and have +8 cube necks.

And it does not have to be any uber geared wizzie either, ive seen rank8 archers with every event item in the game getting one shoot by wizards with crappy +4 weapons b:chuckle.

Aquagirl - Raging Tide · January 2010

that's exactly what I've said above: LA has no chance against any kind of debuf. An undine that takes 60% off cripples a LA enough, then a Genie Poison to increase 20% dmg and there you go , you basically have an archer left with about 2000 mdef waiting for a wizard's SR praying it won't be a crit. Not a good combo if u ask me.
But Archer has the range, stun and rapid fire normal shots, so he has to work with those to win the fight.

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver · January 2010

no one seems to be able to grasp the orginal logic..

if a archer gets 1-2 actions..(meaning 1-2 attacks) Mage dies
If a mage gets 1-2 actions.. (meaning 1-2 attacks) Archer dies

Archer gets to start his attack first because of range... so the majority of the time.. wiz will die first without getting their first action. Test it out vs a competant archer.. meaning start at a range no one can attack from.

If both are competant the fight will not be over in 1-2 shots.. but will drag on for a bit.. and all skills/apoc/pots charms whatever will go into cool down. (this is the point where range will give the archer the advantage and the fight will end)

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2010

shrink has 25 meters at lvl 10 dude...a wiz can shrink in from out of your attack range and start casting.

Mahdust - Harshlands · January 2010

Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no one seems to be able to grasp the orginal logic..

if a archer gets 1-2 actions..(meaning 1-2 attacks) Mage dies
If a mage gets 1-2 actions.. (meaning 1-2 attacks) Archer dies

Archer gets to start his attack first because of range... so the majority of the time.. wiz will die first without getting their first action. Test it out vs a competant archer.. meaning start at a range no one can attack from.

If both are competant the fight will not be over in 1-2 shots.. but will drag on for a bit.. and all skills/apoc/pots charms whatever will go into cool down. (this is the point where range will give the archer the advantage and the fight will end)

Archer's max range -> 32 meters (demon winged blessing)
Wizard's max DS -> 30 meters (demon)
Archer's minimum effect range -> 5 meters (bow)

So just looking at this, a single distance shrink will get a wizard with good timing almost perfectly into the archer's minimum effect range.

Now lets look at skills.

Archer's stunning arrow -> 1.5 s channel, .6 s cast
Wizard's Force of Will -> .5 s channel, 2 s cast
Wizard's Sporific Whisper -> Instant

Keep in mind, whoever finishes channeling first, gets the seal/stun/sleep off first. Also, distance shrink is instant, i've had times that it seems like it started the channeling timer as i was flying in the air with DS.

Looking at this, the wizard will get his turn to attack first.

Upon looking at it again, level 11 skills for wizard has a max range of 30 meters, except sporific whisper. Could a wizard simply walk the extra 2 meters in range and still be able to cast FoW in time to seal the archer?

It seems like you're thinking of this as a turn based game, when in reality it's REAL TIME. Also you say if the fight is competent, then ALL apoc pots, charms, etc will be on cooldown. I have to disagree with this, only the wizard's charm would be on cooldown, the archer's charm would be like "WTF was THAT."

Devoted - Lost City · January 2010

wait, people think archers can compete against mages? maybe a terrible one under 99...

Collapse - Harshlands · January 2010

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

wait, people on pve servers think archers can compete against mages? maybe a terrible one under 99...

Fixed that for you b:laugh

Nudefoxy - Lost City · January 2010

i dont like neither of them, go cleric, good cleric is always needed and bhs are always free for them, hell u might even get paid to come help

Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Ok you guys. Quiz is an archer fully sharded with diamond of tiger stones and is 95% of the time fullbuffed. That hurts combined with a +10 heaven shatterer. Ijs.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok you guys. Quiz is an archer fully sharded with diamond of tiger stones and is 95% of the time fullbuffed. That hurts combined with a +10 heaven shatterer. Ijs.

Mage_Fizban.
._.'
me hope you has never fought 1 vs 1 against Quizenbort
b:surrender

Astoru - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I'm sick of people calling wizards squishy.

Take a cleric, wizard, venomancer, and psychic, gear them up in all the same gear, then apply self buffs. Wizard WILL have the highest defense.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sick of people calling wizards squishy.

Take a cleric, wizard, venomancer, and psychic, gear them up in all the same gear, then apply self buffs. Wizard WILL have the highest defense.

now apply full buff.
wizards get MOAR~?

Xegeth - Dreamweaver · February 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Mage_Fizban.
._.'
me hope you has never fought 1 vs 1 against Quizenbort
b:surrender

I did. He one shot me with a crit of his stun arrow. b:cry
Well, when I jumped him in a cowardly way and he didn't expect it, I also one shot him with ice dragon. b:chuckle i was a bit scared to leave safe zone afterwards tho...

LordRaptor - Heavens Tear · February 2010

i have a llvl 60 wizz and a lvl 74 archer, and i like archers more than wizzards

TigerLily - Lost City · February 2010

low lvl pvp = archer

high lvl pvp = wizard

pve in general = archer slightly more useful

And archers are far more squishy than wizards at high lvls if you compare phy/mag def stats, archers does have a bit more hp than the average wiz but lowest defenses out of all classes.

Tomus - Sanctuary · February 2010

hello all,

im archer 91 and i dont feel any lack of power. I grind very easely, sometimes i take aggro on boss and didnt die with my average gear ( 6200 hp with barb buff), i have 9700 phys attack with barb buff, 25 % crit and never miss with only a misty ring equiped (i miss around 2% of my shot, = never miss)

I read all post here, and was doubting about my archer (quilue, legerity..). On this forum i always read complains from high level archer ( we failed, not enough strong, not enough power...)

Then i asked level 100 + in sanctuary.

They all (yes all) say to me they were powerfull, killing wizz easely and other class as well.

Archers i ve talked to r from our biggest faction (nefarious), they r not noob.
They know how to play archer.

All ur post make me doubt, and sometimes i was nearby to stop playing my archer.

Now i know i will be good at level 100 + , a enjoy playing my archer again.

If u miss, equiped 2 misty ring, and if u still miss, make a wizz b:laugh

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2010

Tomus - Sanctuary wrote: »

hello all,

im archer 91 and i dont feel any lack of power. I grind very easely, sometimes i take aggro on boss and didnt die with my average gear ( 6200 hp with barb buff), i have 9700 phys attack with barb buff, 25 % crit and never miss with only a misty ring equiped (i miss around 2% of my shot, = never miss)

I read all post here, and was doubting about my archer (quilue, legerity..). On this forum i always read complains from high level archer ( we failed, not enough strong, not enough power...)

Then i asked level 100 + in sanctuary.

They all (yes all) say to me they were powerfull, killing wizz easely and other class as well.

Archers i ve talked to r from our biggest faction (nefarious), they r not noob.
They know how to play archer.

All ur post make me doubt, and sometimes i was nearby to stop playing my archer.

Now i know i will be good at level 100 + , a enjoy playing my archer again.

If u miss, equiped 2 misty ring, and if u still miss, make a wizz b:laugh

Red part: that's where the misunderstanding is.

I never said we lack power against mobs. We're fine in PvE.

Try again in PvP and then let me know.

My only real complaint about the class is our **** armor and some stupid skills.

As for top level archers on Sanctuary... I'm not claiming I am better than them, but have you seen some of the gears on these 9x+ Archers...? Mine's no better because I recently sold off my TT90, but atleast I have a good judgement in gear and equipment choice.

Archers with misty rings at high 9x? Archers with magic rings (and no, not the abominations ring)? TT99 Evasion ornaments? +1% Crit cape? Ence's Scar/Forest Wisdom helmet? Abomination Xbow? I could go on and on...

And as for Nefarious; TW doesn't really count and you won't notice much disadvantages as an Archer, which is why the "top" Nefarious archers don't seem to complain. Put them in open PK with some 9x LC PvPers and we'll see.

We need ridiculous refines on our weapons to hurt decently geared opponents.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2010

Archers are fine in TW because all you really need is a good weapon, and their temporary defensive abilities give them enough time so that their opponent just forget about them such that they can resume firing on targets.

Archers are not fine in solo PK unless they have a lot of money on their hands. Most of the archer PKers on Sanct are fairly to very rich lol...yet i've watched a wizard with +5 wep take down an archer with all +8 equip. It was sad.

Archer or Wizard?

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